[FCG] Mushroom forest & ash swamp

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:08 am

Mission statement:
Two exterior area's that are to be made soon lack any identity of their own, and need some new statics or other ideas to make them stand out. These areas will be:
- Othreleth Woods, a mushroom forest
- A still unnamed Ash Swamp

Othreleth Woods:
We need concepts for new types of mushroom trees and other fitting flora. Try to find new ground away from the emperor parasols of the original game. Atmospheric art is welcome, but only if you have a specific and interesting idea to share. Otherwise, the concept of a mushroom forest is pretty self-explanatory.

Ash swamp
No decisions have been made on what an ash swamp is or looks like, except that it is probably rather dead due to ashfall. Atmospheric concept art is welcome to envision the place, as well as concepts for specific statics.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:37 pm

Myzel wrote:a mushroom forest

Will be working on something for this.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:07 pm

A retexture of the BC swamp pool statics to be a greyish-green kind of sludgy color will probably be nice.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:19 pm

Tyrion wrote:A retexture of the BC swamp pool statics to be a greyish-green kind of sludgy color will probably be nice.

You could use the textures from the AL ashmire statics for that, perhaps.

As for the mushroom forest, playing up that these massive things are actually mushrooms, and so have lots and lots of interconnecting roots (hyphae) with fruiting bodies sprouting off them, rather than just being trees with funny tops and no leaves would be nice.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:07 pm

As for the mushroom forest, playing up that these massive things are actually mushrooms, and so have lots and lots of interconnecting roots (hyphae) with fruiting bodies sprouting off them, rather than just being trees with funny tops and no leaves would be nice.

How about having the hyphae clearly above ground, criss-crossing between the mushroom trunks?

New idea: The Othreleth woods are fact one giant organism. (I didn't even have to [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armillaria_ostoyae]make this up[/url].

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:27 pm

I wonder how much plants will grow in the 'ashridden swamps'. Thee won't be many and maybe we could use the trama shrub and the firefern. There could/should be a plant living only near the swamps or in the swamps and resistant to ash. Something like an ampoule pod.
I don't know what you would think of some kind of ash resistent ferns.

Here is something I found on the internet. I'm not sure how useful it will be:
http://www.killerplants.com/media/images/goodies/desktops/kp/kpPopAshSwamp1280.jpg

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:09 pm

Any more direction on this?... other than mushroom trees which aren't like the parasols. This topic hasn't moved at all with the current info.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:43 pm

Morden wrote:Any more direction on this?... other than mushroom trees which aren't like the parasols. This topic hasn't moved at all with the current info.

I wrote:Will be working on something for this.

Looks like I wont be working on something for this after all - too busy in blender to draw anything new atm.

brianbusby · Post by **brianbusby** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:18 pm

I'm almost done with some atmospheric art for this; I like how its turning out but this site demands high quality so I don't know if it will help anyone...

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:18 pm

I have 2 (maybe stupid) questions:
1. Are we looking for something like azura coast's mushroom trees?
2. I was thinking about a region with very few rocks. There is no such region at Vvardenfell and TR morrowind, because it would be a dull place. What do you guys think about this?

Edit: The lack of rocks should then be compensated with plants and maybe grass.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 1:35 pm

This is not a drawing, just an experiment. Textures are taken from the tree-mushrooms for now, but I can make new textures for it, if you like.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/Mushroom.jpg

Worth pursuing?

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:27 pm

They are still too much emperor parasols in my opinion.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:14 pm

blackbird wrote:They are still too much emperor parasols in my opinion.

This is how the mushroom looks with a texture I made a short while ago:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/mushroom1.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/mushroom2.jpg

This mushroom actually has a very different shape compared to the emperor parasols. I'm sorry if I may be too penetrant. I know that this thread is about concept art and not finished models.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:28 pm

Can a glow effect be added to normal statics like that one? Those mushrooms, giving off a faint whitish light to act as natural lanterns in the otherwise dark and forbidding forest would look really awesome, imo.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:38 pm

Can a glow effect be added to normal statics like that one?

That should be possible. I have seen a tutorial on how to make it in the bethsoft forums. I'll have a go at it.

I don't know though, if I should show my results here then. A different thread for them is probably better as I don't want to distract from the concept art.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:29 pm

Don't worry, models can serve just fine as concepts. It's really about getting an idea across, not about art itself. It isn't standard procedure because drawing things is generally less work, and finished models may divert attention away from drawn concepts (that may or may not actually be better ideas).

Anyway, the main reason this thread exists is because we (the core) really have no clear ideas yet, other than 'mushroom forest' and 'ash swamp'. So, instead of being dependent on the selective creativity of few, I'd like to see concept artists present their ideas. That is, imo, really what concept art is for.

1. Are we looking for something like azura coast's mushroom trees?
2. I was thinking about a region with very few rocks. There is no such region at Vvardenfell and TR morrowind, because it would be a dull place. What do you guys think about this?

1. No. We're looking for something that isn't in the game yet.
2. It may be possible to make it work, yes. But that would depend on the foliage.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:32 pm

Then I'll keep posting my results here.

Thanks for clearing this up.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/mushroom_glow.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/mushroom_glow2.jpg

Kiteflyer61 · Post by **Kiteflyer61** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:19 pm

I'm no artist, concept or otherwise, but I think Osiris may have given a link to one of the things we're looking for. It can be found here:
http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/09/most-alien-looking-place-on-earth.html

I think it could make for a very unique area that looks totally cool! And these things are real! One of them is actually a single organism! The one does resemble the emperor parasols but it is different enough I think.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:40 pm

personally, i like [url=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Cantharellus_cibarius]the cantharellus cibarius.[/url] they could be positioned so that their caps blot out most of the sky, giving the illusion of a true forest. there could then be mushrooms growing on the big mushrooms stalks, and mossy crud (similar to the bitter coast) hanging from the caps.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:41 pm

I would vote against using glow maps on these mushrooms. It's a rather common thing to do, even more so since That Expensive CGI Movie made everyone and their dinner bioluminescent.

Any more direction on this?... other than mushroom trees which aren't like the parasols. This topic hasn't moved at all with the current info.

The idea would be that concept artists make that info up. Otherwise they're just drawing.

Here is something I found on the internet. I'm not sure how useful it will be:
http://www.killerplants.com/media/images/goodies/desktops/kp/kpPopAshSwamp1280.jpg

Blackbird, I hope you realize the "ash" in that URL refers to the trees, not the volcanic material.

1. Are we looking for something like azura coast's mushroom trees?
2. I was thinking about a region with very few rocks. There is no such region at Vvardenfell and TR morrowind, because it would be a dull place. What do you guys think about this?

1. Answered by Myzel.
2. If you have a good idea for it, try and show it. No one is going to be able to answer without knowing what you have in mind or what it would look like.

Worsas, your efforts are appreciated, but I think you should think outside of the normal toadstool model for a while. Remember, people, fungi are some of the most stupidly diverse organims in the world.[url=http://www.fungiphoto.com/]These are all mushrooms. That's just crazy, right.[/url]

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:04 pm

Could this mushroom forest be set up as an interior, or set of interiors? - I had an idea along the same lines for a small venture in blackmarsh on a slave hunting quest - a true enclosed forest feel would only be able to be created this way without grinding the frame rate to a holt. I'm not really sure how to explain what I mean - You know how Oblivion tells you to turn back when you hit the border of Cyrodiil - well - like that but textured "walls" that look like dense forest from a distance and invisible ones nearer to the "path" that tell you something to keep you from going that way.
That'd solve the issue of getting close enough to the int "walls" to notice them as being just textures rather than actual models and give the feel of being deep in a forest which is something I'd really like to experience in game.

Yeah, It'd be kind of on rails, we could have loose rails though with multiple paths and exits.

Shapeshiftr · Post by **Shapeshiftr** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:33 pm

@Ada: even the bottom right one?

@Nalin: I think that if we make a "tree-wall" tileset, then that might work. A basic green wall with tree statics coming out. Or possibly, the tileset would just be green sides and flooring, with possibly sky-like ceiling tiles with a glow effect? Really simple to model, but then the modder would have a lot (note: A LOT) of trees on the walls, so that any gaps would be forest green, and it would be obvious that the walls were impassible. Trees would be less dense inside. You can't really add land textures in an interior, IIRC, though.

On the other hand, we could do the same for the single-shroom organism, almost like you're entering it. I really like this idea, it's very MW-like. The walls would be like above, maybe some with parts of the mushroorganism sticking out, but it would just be a dense forest of 'shrooms, that are actually all inter-connected, with some sort of fungal webbing.

Last idea is we could just put a helluva lot of trees, to make an impassible tree wall, or mushrooms. This would be exterior, of course. I think the idea of a giant mushroom/tree at the center of the forest is a cliched but still awesomelyawesome idea. Don't make a tree-village, though, please. That's stepping over the line of cliche.

Morthank0914 · Post by **Morthank0914** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:53 am

I have a question or two on the interior idea for the shroom forest.

@Nalin: I think that if we make a "tree-wall" tileset, then that might work. A basic green wall with tree statics coming out. Or possibly, the tileset would just be green sides and flooring, with possibly sky-like ceiling tiles with a glow effect?

If we were to do that, what about the player levitating over it? If we made an interior for the forest, would we have to script it like the restrictions on flying in the interior Mournhold?

single-shroom organism, almost like you're entering it. I really like this idea, it's very MW-like. The walls would be like above, maybe some with parts of the mushroorganism sticking out, but it would just be a dense forest of 'shrooms

This idea would be pretty cool. but it would have to be big enough to cover quite a few cells wouldn't it? Wouldn't it be like the giant shell in Ald-Ruhn?
Sorry if I'm breaking idea bulbs guys...

Well I'm just sayin that if you were to fly over it (if it were made into an interior) and look down... What would you see? Ground or the tops of a bunch of mushrooms. If you were to stop flying over it, would you land on top or fall into the forest itself? If you were to fly in the interior, could it be possible to fly out into the never ending grey. I'm only concerned about the idea of having it be an interior...It be perfect for oblivion if it were, but I don't know about morrowind...

Jule · Post by **Jule** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:53 am

Why would levitation over the mushroom forest be restricted?
There would be no plausible explanation for such a thing.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:40 am

It would need to happen if the exterior was made in an interior cell. You know that's the reason levitation is banned in Mournhold, and that levitation was removed completely in Oblivion?

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:42 am

When I said interior i meant like with it's own tileset - like a cave set where you see very little of the "outside" world...none of it even. Then a static for the outside of the forest modelled and textured in a similar fashion to the "inside" of the forest.

It'd have to be a BIG static for the outside with BIG textures. Could end up being very cool though.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:42 pm

Could this mushroom forest be set up as an interior, or set of interiors? - I had an idea along the same lines for a small venture in blackmarsh on a slave hunting quest - a true enclosed forest feel would only be able to be created this way without grinding the frame rate to a holt. I'm not really sure how to explain what I mean - You know how Oblivion tells you to turn back when you hit the border of Cyrodiil - well - like that but textured "walls" that look like dense forest from a distance and invisible ones nearer to the "path" that tell you something to keep you from going that way.
That'd solve the issue of getting close enough to the int "walls" to notice them as being just textures rather than actual models and give the feel of being deep in a forest which is something I'd really like to experience in game.

"Interior mushroom forest"
Apart from the result being

1) Mindnumbingly frustrating to navigate in-game
2) Pretty darn hard to implement
3) More likely than not ugly on the Morrowind engine

I don't see the point of this idea. I can't think of a single thing it would add that couldn't be replicated just as easily and with far better gameflow in an exterior. If you want a dense forest, the exterior maker just needs to make it so. If we ever come close to bringing the frame rate to a halt, we need to change the models or use less of them.

"Single organism"
What I meant by "a single organism" is that we could imagine the flora of the woods to be part of a single organism, without that being necessarily obvious on the surface. If anyone can think of a way to show it in a more or less contiguous form, that is an idea we can develop a little further. However, I would be opposed to making it so dense as to be inaccessible from most places. Either way, it was just a suggestion and not something anyone has to pursue.

Either way, this is not what the topic is for. What we do here is draw shrooms.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:19 pm

Ada wrote:If you want a dense forest, the exterior maker just needs to make it so. If we ever come close to bringing the frame rate to a halt, we need to change the models or use less of them.

which would defeat the whole dense forest point. Was just an idea though.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:52 pm

Considering the idea of a single organism: make the "sprouts" very similar in design. Also, perhaps a root cavern system of sorts could grow underneath.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:31 am

Aeven wrote:Also, perhaps a root cavern system of sorts could grow underneath.

a relatively good idea

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:19 pm

This conversation was had on IRC earlier on today - we figured it might be apt if we posted it up here for those not around

<Cat> I just had an idea for that shroom forest
<Revenant|Nalin> yeah?
<Cat> some kind of mushroom with harvestable ingredients, that's commonly found surrounded with a dozen or so of some smallish, docile creature. when you harvest the plant, it releases spores that drive the creatures insane to attack en masse
<Cat> I don't know if the spore effect could be represented visually
<Cat> but it'd be quite cool to have rare harvestable fungi with odd effects or traps to them
<Cat> i was thinking the fungus would be somewhat like a large greenish bulb with an open end and various tendrils or something coming out one end that would be the actual harvestable part
<Cat> http://www.fungiphoto.com/CTLG/IMAGES/IM/0657-19.JPG
<Cat> that, with long thin filaments sticking out of the puckered bit at the top
<Revenant|Nalin> looks a bit like an egg getting attacked by sperm
<Cat> the filaments are valuable and useful for alchemy, and each one is a single ingredient
<Cat> but plucking each one is like a scripted container or something
<Cat> and has a chance to frenzy the surrounding docile creatures
<Andres> I should probably draw some concept sketches for that forestthing D:
* Andres has some idealike things and such
<Cat> yays
<Cat> I wish I had a scanner
<Andres> Which are bloody mundane, but still D:
<Revenant|Nalin> can't they just be poisonous? the spores
<Cat> sure
<Revenant|Nalin> just to stop the player taking them all too easily
<Cat> I was just trying to think of a more interesting effect than "you get X damage"
<Cat> paralyse!
<Cat> :O
<Cat> or blind!
<Revenant|Nalin> and then the creatures creep out and get you whilst you can't move
<Cat> mwahaha
<Revenant|Nalin> paralyze and drain health
<Revenant|Nalin> !!!
<Revenant|Nalin> deadly combo
<Andres> So, a paralyze on touch and an area effect of frenzy creature?
<Revenant|Nalin> nice
<Revenant|Nalin> what creatures would crawl around in the shroomage though?
<Andres> And then there is a mad wizard in the middle of the forest, who morphs the animals, using some of the shrooms, making them berserk enough for them to travel half-way through the province and attack cities.

<Cat> be nice if we had a small, chicken or small dog-sized creature
<Cat> that isn't a rat, I mean
<Cat> shalks?
<Cat> velks?
<Cat> or some other, entirely new creature!
<Cat> :O
<Revenant|Nalin> velks are teeth and clawless
<Andres> Yrtwings!
<Revenant|Nalin> they could lick you to death....it'd take a while though
<Cat> something that isn't dangerous on its own, but they tend to be found in large groups
<Revenant|Nalin> yeah
<Revenant|Nalin> small things that look innocent enough
<Andres> Yrtwings are small creatures, with a naturally woodlike shell, which has fungi on it's back and a small horn on it's nose

<Cat> I wish Tyrion had indicated which ranges of hills he wants connecting
<Revenant|Nalin> @ andres - mini rhinos
<Andres> Yes!

<Revenant|Nalin> how about Myzel's velk concept?
<Cat> yeah, perhaps
<Revenant|Nalin> shrinking them down and using them
<Revenant|Nalin> chopping down the legs a bit perhaps?
<Cat> Yaks are quite small, aren't they?
<Revenant|Nalin> it's a very nice concept
<Andres> But the horns on the yrtwings are all glowy, growing patterns on them

<Cat> the head off the second version he did
<Cat> but with the lots of under-fur of his first version
<Andres> And some of the yrtwings have glowing fungi on their shells

<Cat> someone needs to suggest all this shizzle on the thread
<Cat> I don't currently have time D:
<Revenant|Nalin> I was just thinking the same!
<Cat> also, YES TO BIOLUMINESENCE
<Andres> I wish I had a stable machine so I could model and texture the dozen variations of the yrtwings
<Revenant|Nalin> Let's not go overboard though on the Bioluminesence part
<Andres> Though, sketching them first would probably also be smart

<Revenant|Nalin> yeah andres - get sketching
<Cat> ohh D:
<Andres> Only the mature yrtwings have glowy horns

<Revenant|Nalin> I like bioluminesence but we shouldn't get carried away
<Andres> The majority are young, and since they have a silly habit of growing so much fungi on their back, that they collapse under the weight, only a few grow to a mature stage

<Revenant|Nalin> that's a very cool idea andres
<Revenant|Nalin> yrtins
<Andres> Did you just cut away the accidental word in the randomly typed name? D:
<Andres> Good idea.
<Revenant|Nalin> I'm seeing them as modified versions of Myzels velk though
<Revenant|Nalin> you should sketch them Andres
<Andres> What does Myzel's velk look like?
<Cat> I was imagining something like a woody, mushroom covered chicken, without the long neck
<Andres> I should probably rethink the design that I have in mind for the yrtinthing though D:
<Revenant|Nalin> that sounds cool too
<Andres> Since I see it as a mammal.

Yeah - It's more focused on creatures but It hopefully inspires ideas for the setting they could be found in

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:42 pm

...I think you should think outside of the normal toadstool model for a while. Remember, people, fungi are some of the most stupidly diverse organims in the world.These are all mushrooms. That's just crazy, right.

Thats no problem for me so far. I thought of it as a concept from the beginning. And I also thought that it might be too generic for you. I mostly wanted to signalize that I'm prepared to help in this field as I have said before and I wanted to keep my word as this regards.

I'll wait though before I contribute further stuff.

@Nalin: Those ideas sound very creative. The thing with the spores instantly causing creatures to attack might be too script-heavy. I would just make the creatures aggressive and stronger there. There might also be people gone mad so you'll be attacked by people who were sneezing the spores for too long.

greendogo · Post by **greendogo** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:44 am

For the mushroom forest you might find inspiration in pictures of coral. A lot of the shapes found in underwater plant life and coral could be used as fungi, though not necessarily mushrooms (though searching for "tube coral" yields interesting results).

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:37 pm

Its funny we're talking about mushrooms here. I've been playing Oblivion again lately, and Its made me think we could use a few more varieties.

I was wondering about putting 'Cinnabar Polypore Red Cap' in the game since its on the west side of Cyrodill

Anywho... I have a reasonable knowledge of fungi so here's some contribution and ideas:

[img]http://fig.cox.miami.edu/Faculty/Dana/basidiomycetes.jpg[/img]

Less-known Types of Fungi (not all shown above):

Cepe, Agaric, Amanita, Basidiomycetes, Earth-Star (Geastrum), Ink Cap, AseroÃƒÂ« Rubra.

Personally I think if you want to make tree sized mushrooms, go with the Ink-Caps. They're usually tallish and have like a long veil over the top.
For smaller trees you could use Agaric, and bushes/shrubs more like Earth-Stars/AseroÃƒÂ« rubra.

Hopefully this may sprouts up some more ideas.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:11 pm

Isn't one of the points of Morrowind flora, fauna and fungi that it's lacking in real world species? I mean, take inspiration from these, but just copying them wholesale isn't very interesting D:

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:08 pm

there was nothing wrong with relinqs post

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 5:09 pm

Cathartis wrote:Isn't one of the points of Morrowind flora, fauna and fungi that it's lacking in real world species? I mean, take inspiration from these, but just copying them wholesale isn't very interesting D:

In fact, this is the point of concept art in general. Otherwise we could just send a picture of an ink cap to the modelers and be done with it. Inspiration is good though, so pictures of odd shrooms aren't bad to have.

I hope we will see some more actual concepts here. I've done some sketching, they'll be posted once I can get them scanned.
ETA eventually.

Shapeshiftr · Post by **Shapeshiftr** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:18 pm

Well, I'm no artist, and I really can't do any effects for shit, but I have some mushroom tree ideas?

[url=http://img709.imageshack.us/i/coprinustree.jpg/][img]http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6191/coprinustree.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img707.imageshack.us/i/othershroomtree.jpg/][img]http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3507/othershroomtree.th.jpg[/img][/url]

gro-Dhal · Post by **gro-Dhal** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:33 pm

Is this mushroom forest supposed to be all enchanted/pretty or kind of foreboding/Snow White sort of thing?

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:42 pm

My head had the Avatar forests in it.

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[FCG] Mushroom forest & ash swamp

[FCG] Mushroom forest & ash swamp

Re: [FCG] Mushroom forest & ash swamp