About Indoril and Dres Colors

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:41 pm

Hello! I'm new here.
Thanks for the amazing job you've done (and you're still doing), Morrowind is much more fun to play with TR. This mod should have been included with the original version!:D

I've downloaded TR and, playing with the CS, I've found you choose the white for the Great House Indoril and the blue for the Great House Dres.
I'm not agree with this.
I think House Indoril should be blue because Vivec's Ordinators (who are an orphan legion but commons Ordinators) wear blue clothes and parts of Indoril armors are blue. And you can find [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/blue_book_of_riddles.shtml]The Blue Book of Riddles[/url] in Vivec and Mournhold (as The Redoran's Red Book of Riddles and the Hlaalu's Yellow Book of Riddles). The blue is a divine color; it's perfect for them.
House Dres should be black ( like [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/rgbooks/page.shtml?14]this[/url]) because its reputation is more sinister. They've got slavehunters (both spies, scouts and smugglers), daedric priests, sorcerers (not mages!) and they honor the Morag Tong (assassins!) as any other House because it's an ancient tradition (and I seem to remember that Morag Tong have a sort of Temple in Tear). For proof, in the book [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/game_dinner.shtml]A Game At Dinner[/url], noble Dres are called "Dark Liege". And perhaps they have unique, strange and frightening magic because they worship Daedras.

White can't be used for a House because this color has its own story ([url=http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/lives_saints.shtml]here[/url]). It's the color of peace, healers and those who don't take part in the War of Houses.

I hope this does not completely disrupt your projects.
N.B. And sorry for my bad English.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:06 pm

Pretty sure this has been decided already. I think Indoril is white and Dres is blue? Something like that, but yeah.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:10 pm

White for Indoril is fine, as they're a faction mostly composed of pious, peaceable types.

Blue is fine for Dres as they're very traditional and spiritual, and Daedra worship is not sinister at all anyway. They worship the good daedra, after all.

karpik777 · Post by **karpik777** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:13 pm

While I wouldn't mind the two Houses having different colors and emblems (IIRC the poison song mentions the Indoril crest being a wing, while it is a bug in TR), I'm guessing they're based on [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/maps/concept_morrowind.jpg]this map[/url]

Also:
- Why should the color of the Ordinators clothes and armor determine the House color of the Indoril?
- Dark Liege Dhaunayne is an Aundae vampire, the term has nothing to do with the Dres.
- Where did you get the "sinister" Dres reputation part? They are mostly traders and slavers, both trades being fully accepted in Dunmer society. Similiarly, the Morag Tong is an ancient and respected order.

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:17 pm

Well the Telvanni certainly aren't red and the Redoran certainly aren't orange. I think its already decided that Indoril will be white, if my memory serves me correctly there's a "White Book of 3E whatever" for them. I want to say Dres is blue, or grey, or steel blue, or something like that.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:57 am

The lives of the saints wrote:Saint Meris showed healing gifts, and trained as a Healer. She ended a long and bloody House War, intervening on the battlefield in her white robe to heal warriors and spellcrafters without regard to faction. The troops of all House adopted white robes as her standard, and refused to shed the blood of their brethren.

This doesn't say anyone wearing white is a pacifist. It doesn't say that White is exclusive to Saint Meris either. It says that during that particular house war troops were inspired by her and decided to stop fighting and wore white just to signify this. The house war finishes and white has nothing to do with peace or being a healer and never did.

If her white robe was in the wash and she was wearing her flourescent yellow robe then they would have adopted flourescent yellow.

you can find The Blue Book of Riddles in Vivec and Mournhold (as The Redoran's Red Book of Riddles and the Hlaalu's Yellow Book of Riddles).

It's also found[url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Blue_Book_of_Riddles]in a few other places[/url]. Who's to say that the blue book isn't affiliated with Great House Dres?

That said - I do like Blue for Indoril but we've already settled on White for them, We should sort out the heraldric symbol for Indoril as more of "a wing" though instead of what we have now.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:55 pm

It's a bug with prominent wings. What's not to understand about that? Makes more sense than a bird's wing, and an insect wing wouldn't look as good on its own, I don't think.

In any case, many other modelling/texturing projects take prominence.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:08 pm

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:It's a bug with prominent wings...Makes more sense than a bird's wing, and an insect wing wouldn't look as good on its own, I don't think.

A bird's wing would look rediculous and yeah this is very low priority. but The Poison Song states it's a wing (not a bug with big wings) and that the Bug symbol is Redoran and the other bug symbol is Dagoth (which is a bit of Redoran symbol with the rest removed).

Some other wing though (cliff racer maybe?).

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:49 pm

A bird's wing would look rediculous and yeah this is very low priority. but The Poison Song states it's a wing (not a bug with big wings) and that the Bug symbol is Redoran and the other bug symbol is Dagoth (which is a bit of Redoran symbol with the rest removed).

Some other wing though (cliff racer maybe?).

The Poison Song isn't lore, don't worry about it.

If anyone disagrees with that: Indoril chose to change its emblem at the Nid Stathron Conclave of 2E 352.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:42 pm

Good enough for me

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:10 pm

Adanorcil wrote:
A bird's wing would look rediculous and yeah this is very low priority. but The Poison Song states it's a wing (not a bug with big wings) and that the Bug symbol is Redoran and the other bug symbol is Dagoth (which is a bit of Redoran symbol with the rest removed).

Some other wing though (cliff racer maybe?).
The Poison Song isn't lore, don't worry about it.

If anyone disagrees with that: Indoril chose to change its emblem at the Nid Stathron Conclave of 2E 352.

Which kind of books are lore? The one without a story?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:15 pm

The ones that aren't house dagoth horror stories at least

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:56 pm

There are other story books not lore like Incident in Necrom, A game for Dinner, probably the 2920 series, ...
In the best case anything but section I till section IV (and maybe XI and XII) on this page for MW books : http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/ is not lore.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:19 pm

There isn't a guideline. Lore is anything that, for the purpose at hand, is neither irrelevant nor stupid.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:57 pm

what ada means to say, i think, is that just because some books somewhere mentioned something doesnt mean its 100% lore and we are absolutely obligated to include it. some things are outdated, some things don't fit with the modern vision of morrowind, some things are contradicted, some things are just dumb. we have (iirc) a perfectly fitting emblem for the indoril, the Poison Song is not reason enough to change it.