Map 3 NPC Claim #9 [arvisrend]

[Haplo]

Map:

[url=http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/241/map3detailingclaim9wq8.jpg][img]http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/241/map3detailingclaim9wq8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Cape of Leaving & Sailen, with wilderness

Edit by Nemon:

River map:

[url=http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6483/map3rivers1xv9.jpg][img]http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6483/map3rivers1xv9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[Haplo]

Exterior approved. All the interiors have been merged; this is now ready for NPCing and misc. quests.

[Why]

Took a quick look, there's an int missing in the southwest corner of Sailen, don't know if that's intentional.

[Haplo]

My bad. It's included now.

[immortal_pigs]

I would like to claim this.

[Haplo]

Are you aware that NPCing includes dialogue (with filters), path grids where necessary, and creatures, in addition to city and wilderness NPCs?

[immortal_pigs]

Yes, I've done it before.

[Haplo]

Just gotta double check. Granted. (Remember to use US English)

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Also remember you need to create the misc quests for settlements in this area as well.

[Haplo]

Well, those need to be done at this stage. If a claimant is unable to do that, they can always let someone else finish it.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Blergh, details

[blackbird]

Is this a new rule now?

[Haplo]

About misc. quests? Not a "rule" per se, but miscellaneous quests are now included in our initial release, along with NPCs and dialogue, so that players have a little something to do.

[immortal_pigs]

Update, Sailen fully NPC'ed, Lighthouse NPC'ed.
About 35% done I estimate.

[immortal_pigs]

All Mines, Caves, Ruins, Wilderness, Settlements populated. Ownership applied, Leveled Creatures, Pathgrids made, NPC services added.
Estimated 60% done.
Only dialog and misc. quests remain.

1. I've renamed the Wilderness to "Sacred Lands", is this right?

2. What greetings do standard greetings go in? I think it was 5 but not sure.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Standard greetings are 7. And for dialogue, remember to include those BIGCAPS dividers. Basically, check the most recent file from my NPC claim to get the basic gist of the latest dialogue protocol.

And no, you should not name Wilderness cells, because now they'll show up on the map. Name all the cells in this plug-in (except the cities) with a placeholder but unlikely to be repeated accidentally name (like 'qwerty' or something like that), then go to File -> Export Data -> Cell Exteriors -> New Cell Exteriors. Open that text file, and do a search for 'qwerty', deleting each instance you find (so that instead of "qwerty" you are left with ""). Then open up your plug-in again, and File -> Import Data -> Cell Exteriors, and import the text file. Then apply a region to the wilderness cells via Region Paint, and check that their name is updated in the Cell Menu. If it is, you've done it right. The official region boundaries can be sorted later once everything's merged, but make a best guess for now.

[Aeven]

I'll be posting 1-3 quest ideas in here tonight, including the one we thought up on IRC yesterday.

[Why]

What's up with those floating/bleeding weapons in Ulyn's Manor?

[immortal_pigs]

Those NPCs have 0 HP, so they die. They fall down in such a way that there's a weapon sticking in their corpse, in-game.

[Why]

Oh wow, I missed that, apologies. Very ingenious. Still the claymore bleeds into the floor through the ceiling below.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

how can you be certain that NPCs will fall a certain way? Isn't it random which of the death animations play?

[Aeven]

Ancestor's Wrath

In Seryn lives Duran Balvel, an egg miner of reasonably good descent, though he has hit slight hardship. He has an Imperial slave woman (currently a male, so that'd have to change). He has developed a love for this woman, and has "given himself" to her, and they have a relationship. Nearby is the Balvel Ancestral Tomb, where Duran Balvel's ancestors reside.

His father's spirit/ghost, learning of his romance with an Imperial, and a slave at that, was furious, and decided to haunt Duran's house at night. Duran will, if the player shows up at night, tell the player about the ghost in the room (which is non-aggressive, but obviously creeping Duran out). Duran asks you to take care of the matter, as he is too afraid to venture into the tomb itself and foul it. He can't speak with the ghost, as it merely repeats to utter "You are my foulest disgrace!" endlessly. He tells you the only way to solve his problems is to speak with the Bonelord of his father who is projecting the ghost into his home, and convince him to be at peace with the relation, possibly even bless it.

The player will have the choice of killing the bonelord, which works, and as proof the player will give a necklace. If the player tries to convince the bonelord to instead be at peace, and even give his blessing, you'll receive the necklace, but also a piece of paper showing how he supports the relationship. The bonelord will then disappear.

In the first outcome, the player receives 100 gold, and in the second, the player receives a key unlocking a chest with some valuables in the Ancestral Tomb (probably will need a new chest)

The bonelord needs placing at the final part of tomb.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Seryn is on map 6, this small mining village will need a new name. Also, I don't think imperials are used as slaves in indoril lands. (could be wrong though)

[Aeven]

I recall the Telvanni having a number of Imperial slaves. Then again their mentality towards the Empire is different. It could be a Nord though. Dunmer have grudges towards them too

But all in all, is the design good enough for a simple misc quest?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I'm happy with the Design, the only question is the plausibility of an Imperial slave in the more mainstream society, as opposed to Telvanni.

[Adanorcil]

Ancestor's Wrath

In Seryn lives Duran Balvel, an egg miner of reasonably good descent, though he has hit slight hardship. He has an Imperial slave woman (currently a male, so that'd have to change). He has developed a love for this woman, and has "given himself" to her, and they have a relationship. Nearby is the Balvel Ancestral Tomb, where Duran Balvel's ancestors reside.

His father's spirit/ghost, learning of his romance with an Imperial, and a slave at that, was furious, and decided to haunt Duran's house at night. Duran will, if the player shows up at night, tell the player about the ghost in the room (which is non-aggressive, but obviously creeping Duran out). Duran asks you to take care of the matter, as he is too afraid to venture into the tomb itself and foul it. He can't speak with the ghost, as it merely repeats to utter "You are my foulest disgrace!" endlessly. He tells you the only way to solve his problems is to speak with the Bonelord of his father who is projecting the ghost into his home, and convince him to be at peace with the relation, possibly even bless it.

The player will have the choice of killing the bonelord, which works, and as proof the player will give a necklace. If the player tries to convince the bonelord to instead be at peace, and even give his blessing, you'll receive the necklace, but also a piece of paper showing how he supports the relationship. The bonelord will then disappear.

In the first outcome, the player receives 100 gold, and in the second, the player receives a key unlocking a chest with some valuables in the Ancestral Tomb (probably will need a new chest)

The bonelord needs placing at the final part of tomb.

This is a very good idea, but the bonelord cannot be the man's father. The Temple has discouraged burials in private ancestral tombs for centuries now. Especially among the pious Indoril, this would be observed. We can easily fix that, however, by just making the bonelord the ancestral Balvel clan father or mother, who obviously watches over the good name of his/her family. Upon hearing of their Duran's outrageous relationship, they decided to send his father's ghost to haunt him (read: 'stop him from making stupid decisions').


NOTE: If someone uses this, I think it may be a good idea to make the bonelord only appear when the quest has been activated, just so you can't kill it beforehand. I don't know about the rest of you, but I pretty much throw a grenade at whatever moves inside an ancestral tomb.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

You happy with the Imperial slave, Ada? If so, then this gets the green light.

[Adanorcil]

You happy with the Imperial slave, Ada? If so, then this gets the green light.

Personally, I don't see a big problem with it. Let's just be cautious with non-beast race slaves this far south.

[Why]

This is probably a stupid question so I apologize in advance, but since bonelords have 4 arms, are they actually created from one or multiple corpses? If the latter, dialogue should reflect this.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

just because multiple bodies were used does not necessarily mean multiple souls reside in the bonelord.

[Adanorcil]

This is probably a stupid question so I apologize in advance, but since bonelords have 4 arms, are they actually created from one or multiple corpses? If the latter, dialogue should reflect this.

They're obviously created from more than one corpse since, well, a body only has two arms. But like TF said, it doesn't need to have multiple souls.

[Why]

Ah, yes. As I said, stupid question. Thanks.

[immortal_pigs]

Fresh update, 70% done.
Has little advice, little secret, latest rumors, services, Sailen, Necrom Lighthouse, Fort Umbermoth and other shared topics ready to go. About halfway done with unique backgrounds, and flavor dialog sprinkled around here and there.

I would appreciate a quick check for spelling, not out of lazyness, but I feel I may be overusing the capital letter too much. I may be capitalizing too often.

As for a Lore question, the theme behind Sailen is threefold, Farmers, Pilgrims and Veterans. Aiming for the idea that in Indoril lands the most important things are the Temple, your family's honour and a hard work ethic. I want to show the PC that House Indoril is very different from the Telvanni.

But the question is, what is the difference between House Indoril and House Redoran? As in actual things relevant to NPC dialog.

[Adanorcil]

But the question is, what is the difference between House Indoril and House Redoran? As in actual things relevant to NPC dialog.

This is a good question, and one I would like to address in great detail some time, but this brief answer will have to do.

The easiest way to summarize them would be to say that the Redoran are Vivec, while the Indoril are Almalexia. The Indoril are (or believe they still are) the most important House in Morrowind. In essence, they are Morrowind, or better yet: Resdayn. They derive their identity from the notion of a glorious, unified Morrowind, of five Houses under three god-kings. (An old design interview said they claimed kinship to all three Triunes, but let's not mention that. Nonetheless, they're related to many saints and to the greatest Dunmer hero of all.)

The reason why they're the House that represents Morrowind the most is simple: Redoran might have the greatest military power and Hlaalu might be the richest (either of which are only partially true), but they are quite simply the purest House, the House that comes closest to what the Tribunal had in mind when they decided to rebuild their nation.

In their social dealings, they tend to think strongly in terms of community. They're a House, which means everyone in it should be out of the rain. Out of a sense of piety, the rich members often feel compelled to give to charity or donate to the Temple, especially in the cities. (This job is of course often relegated to administrators, unless they want to gain some good reputation by making public appearances.) They will regularly make -ostentatious- visits to the Temple and often have private shrines in their homes to the Triunes and the ancestors.


The Redoran on the other hand live, to quote Vivec, by 'creed and deed'. They are more modest in their self-image and harbor no dreams of supremacy. Nonetheless, they are very proud to be the 'doers' of Morrowind. When there is a seemingly insurmountable obstacle or a great danger to the people, they, like Vivec, will go out and make sure it gets solved. In this sense, they have a rather romantic idea of themselves as the house of heroes.

On a religious level, they are more sober. They believe one's virtue in the eyes of the Triunes speaks primarily from one's actions. They are a lot more contemplative and a lot less theatrical. They place a lot of emphasis on integrity and holding on to one's convictions.

They also have a stronger sense of individuality. While the achievements of House Indoril more or less radiate across the entire House, the Redoran attach more importance to personal glory (or glory of the family).

It occurs to me the difference is perhaps even more poignantly illustrated at Ghostgate. The Ordinators are Indoril: golden, uniformly dressed, pious and organized. The Buoyant Armigers are the Redoran: disparate, each with their own skills and weaknesses, but with a rock-solid conviction and love for their god and above all, deadly.




;tldr

Indoril vs. Redoran

urban (especially Almalexia) - remote
community - individual
law - personal ethics
ritual, pomp - contemplation
identity: the leaders of grand Morrowind - identity: the tough that get going when the going gets tough


------------------------------------------------

I would appreciate a quick check for spelling, not out of lazyness, but I feel I may be overusing the capital letter too much. I may be capitalizing too often.

Yeah, I think you're overusing it a bit. No need to capitalize Lighthouse, or all the names of the services. Better yet, paraphrase the services a bit. That way, it sounds a lot less like: "This town contains [insert gameplay item 1] and a [insert gameplay item 2]." Also, fix the comma splices here and there.

Apart from that, I'd advise you to rewrite some of the entries to sound a little less encyclopedic. They're really pretty good, but it's important for immersion and flavor that they sound as if someone is saying them, not reading them off a piece of paper. e.g.

No one actually says things like "the local dwemer ruin":

A few weeks ago two adventurers, an Orc and an Altmer travelled through here, saying they were going to visit the local Dwemer Ruin. These outlanders, they have no common sense, everyone knows you stay away from Arkantng. I wouldn't be surprised if they got themselves killed, can't say I'd care all that much either way though. An outlander is an outlander.

They say something like:

An Orc and an Altmer passed through town some time ago. Said they were headed for the Dwemer ruin up there. These outlanders, they have no common sense. Everyone knows you stay away from Arkantng. I wouldn't be surprised if they got themselves killed. Can't say I'd care all that much, though.

Finally cut down a bit on the outward hatred of Imperials and outlanders. Make it implicit, use some different words than the 'standard' race names and such.

I've heard that Cinia Jandacia, that Imperial leader over at Fort Umbermoth is related to a Duchess in the Telvanni lands. She sure doesn't act like royalty though, from what I've heard she's a degenerate drinker and has quite a few "informal" relationships with native Rogues. Normally I would be suprised at such incompetent leadership, but hey - she's an Imperial.

vs.

The commander over at Fort Umbermoth is apparently related to a Duchess in the Telvanni lands. From what I hear, she sure doesn't act like nobility, though. She's a degenerate drinker and has "informal" friendships with a whole bunch of good-for-nothings. You'd think they would have replaced her by now. Westerners, pssh.

[Aeven]

I like that comparison, Adanorcil.

[immortal_pigs]

Thank's for the information, Adanorcil.
New file, dialog pretty much complete, still need to do some edits to capitals and encyclopedic speech. So now for the quests.
Should be 80% done now.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

A few small points of style, ImPi, it would be nice if you didn't capitalise the m in TR_m3, to keep consistency with the rest of TR. A small OCD point, but it matters to people like me. Equally pedantically, for your BIGCAPS divider, could you have BEGIN/END TR MAP3 SAILEN RUMORS, with the TR Map3 in there.

On your overuse of Caps thing, class names should not be Capsed (but Race names should).

In Greetings, it's good you used Random filters, but I find it's best to leave at least some room for vanilla entries to filter through (standard "hello, %PCName" stuff) - generally cut off unique greetings after one or two, and leave the rest up to the random pre-prepared greetings in Greetings 9.

It's not clear why you've created a new Ordinator type? If he's got a specific purpose, he needs a more specific name. If he's not that unique, just use the standard guy.

First name I saw in Sailen, Nothasea Deakrin, the surname doesn't look right. There are virtually never Ks in non-Ashland Dunmer names. But it seems the rest are okay, so that's good.

Personally I'm not too hot on the Duchess' sister being a bigwig here. It doesn't make too much sense (surely she's too important for so backwater a position), and no one in the first two maps has even mentioned a sister. Personally, I'd make her just a random Imperial noble.


All these things are just small things though, but they are the things that really add that touch of class to TR. The main bulk of this claim is just fine, well done. (Although like me you will probably grate on proofreaders nerves with the sheer number of Backgrounds you have provided )

So yeah, roll on the quests. Can you handle those?

[immortal_pigs]

1. I'm afraid I cannot do much about the TR_M3_NPC vs. TR_m3_NPC point. When I decapitalize the M the CS doesn't register the change.

2. Does Faction Rank need to be capsed? As in "Adept" vs "adept" or "House Cousin" vs "house cousin".

3. Does the Faction need to be capsed? As in "Temple" vs "temple"

4. Is it "Great House Indoril" or "great house indoril", "Tribunal" or "tribunal"

5. Are you saying I should keep the "TalkedToNpc = 0" random greetings, but delete those that come after? (I've no problem with that but I'm a bit confused. Wouldnt the first to greetings still interfere with greetings 9 global 100 thingies?)

6. I've created a new Indoril Guard and a new Ordinator type with the aphix "W", as in Walker. They're set to walk distances 24/7 to create a feeling of dynamity in certain areas. I hope that isn't too much of a problem? Ill change the aphix into Walker for clarity.

Of course you could debate the use of such walker guards, but I think the Walker Ordinator of the Lighthouse needs to stay, as I think he really adds to the atmosphere.

7. Nothasea Deakrin is intended as wife to Lord Veradul Deakrin. He's in the white book, so I assumed it was lore.

===

Still filtering out spelling errors and adding a little more dialog here and there before this is quest ready. If I cant handle the quests ill pass this on to a more capable quester.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

1. Try adding one random letter to the name, saving, say 'no' to creating a new object', then remove the random letter and re-save, doing the same again.

2, 3, 4: all those are Caps'ed, yep.

5. I mean on your truly 'Random' greetings (i.e. not the more rare 'TalkedToPC' ones, which will only show once and then disappear), have one for Random >= 75, one for Random >= 50, but then leave Random < 50 to be determined from the Greetings 9 list (i.e. stop your filter at >= 50, so that any Random values < 50 skip Greetings 7)

6. Just use the standard TR_ordinator_necrom and TR_indoril_guard or whatever - their AI is set to wander, as with vanilla guards. No new NPCs required. Avoid TR_ordinator_necrom_s (static).

7. Ah okay, that would explain the randomly bad name. Just change it - the White Book is outdated.

[immortal_pigs]

For the Ancestral Wrath quest, I have a few questions to get things started.

1. How do you make a creature (ghost/bonewalker) forcegreet into dialog.

2. Is forcegreet the only way to engage in dialog with a creature?

3. What are the naming conventions for quests? Maybe something like TR_mX_Location_QuestName ??