Poison Unagi's Showcase

[PoisonUnagi]

Well, I've been working on my showcase and boosting my modding abilities for the past week or so, and now after about 20 fixes and an hour's worth of testing, I think my showcase is finished. It's a quest showcase, seeing as I'm not too good with exteriors, and to a lesser extent interiors. To start the quest, go to Bal Oyra and talk to Mora Gindal in the first shack on the right. She tells you what to do from there.

So yeah, any questions, feel free to ask.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated, I look forward to your responses

The file's been moved further down.

[PoisonUnagi]

Oh yeah, and this is reliant on Bloodmoon, Tribunal, TR_Data, TR_Map1, and possibly TR_Map2.

Not sure if this should be a post or an edit, it was mentioned in another thread that edits are frowned upon here o.O

EDIT (lol): It's dependent on the public TR_Data, but I think the internal version should work aswell, unless something's been removed.

EDIT2: I'll bump this on Friday if I don't have another reply by then :/

[SamirA]

edits are frowned upon when they contain pertinent things in a thread that has been inactive for a bit. This would be a double post where an edit would have been sufficient.

[PoisonUnagi]

It's been 6 days, bump time!

[PoisonUnagi]

It's been 12 days... I'm assuming I should bump again, do quests always take this long to review, are the reviewers busy...?

[Why]

Busy, apologies. I'm hoping to have it reviewed before the 7th.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

our quest department is the smallest department we have apart from modeling. (I don't count sound as a department anymore)

Our slowness in reviewing is a testament to how much we need help in that field.

[OTRaw]

Hey Poison Unagi

I can give this a quick review, but remember that Why has been doing this a lot longer than me

Note: Your showcase should not be dependent on Map 1 + 2.

I'll edit this when I've tested your quest, good luck

Edit: I must say I couldn't find a single error in your dialog, good job.

TESAME: Hasn't been used. Download it and open up your .esp, you will find that there are lots of things that you accidently edited. Lots of textures, com_chest_02, active_de_p_bed and more. If you need to change the properties of an object you will need to make a new version of it. The TESAME download link is on TR's download page.

I had a few problems with the quest.
I had no idea where I needed to go next. Where to find the women in Firewatch, Khur's shack or the dude you show the plans to. It would of been good to have some directions. (I had to cheat to find the woman and Khur)

Khur lives in a shack, yet he can afford amazing armor and a chest with a 100 lock? I would tone down his uberness.

A rule of Morrowind is that if you are attacked first, you can fight back with lethal force. There is no reason to get the huge penalty for when Khur dies.

Quest greetings should nearly always be in Greeting 5, only put them in 1 when the NPC talking doesn't care who they talk to for whatever reason. (ie. A Morrowind inhabitant wouldn't ask a vampire for help unless it was an emergency)

You used this in a result box:

Code: Select all

TR_m1_Cornelia_Aurivius -> Addtopic "Khur"
Addtopic "Khur"

Not a huge problem, but not only do the two lines do the same thing (as it is Cornelia who is speaking), but 'Khul' is mentioned in the dialog so is added regardless.

Here's an extract from the dialog, I'm sure you can see the error

Code: Select all

I told FireWatchNPC that Khur is dead, and she was very disappointed in me. There is now a bounty on my head for murder.

You didn't do any scripting. If you haven't already read some of 'Morrowind Scripting for Dummies' and try to implement some decent scripts.

I know this seems like a long list (mostly due to my spacing and how I word things) but most of these are easy fixes, the quest itself was enjoyable. If you need help with anything (especially scripting, that's the hardest part ) feel free to ask. This is just your first try, I only just managed to pass on my fourth try, so good luck

Edit2: Also, it's a good idea to get used to TR's naming conventions, search around the forum and you will find them

[PoisonUnagi]

Thanks alot for the review, I'll get to work on that

TESAME: Hasn't been used. Download it and open up your .esp, you will find that there are lots of things that you accidently edited. Lots of textures, com_chest_02, active_de_p_bed and more. If you need to change the properties of an object you will need to make a new version of it. The TESAME download link is on TR's download page.

I tried using TESAME, and cleaned up some blank cells, apparently I didn't use it right... I'll check out the tutorial.

I had a few problems with the quest.
I had no idea where I needed to go next. Where to find the women in Firewatch, Khur's shack or the dude you show the plans to. It would of been good to have some directions. (I had to cheat to find the woman and Khur)

It was intended to be a search quest, but I guess it is a bit unforgiving. Will fix.

Khur lives in a shack, yet he can afford amazing armor and a chest with a 100 lock? I would tone down his uberness.

Good point, will fix.

A rule of Morrowind is that if you are attacked first, you can fight back with lethal force. There is no reason to get the huge penalty for when Khur dies.

Ugh, forgot about that. Will fix.

Quest greetings should nearly always be in Greeting 5, only put them in 1 when the NPC talking doesn't care who they talk to for whatever reason. (ie. A Morrowind inhabitant wouldn't ask a vampire for help unless it was an emergency)

I heard about that after I posted the showcase, will fix anyways

You used this in a result box:

Code: Select all

TR_m1_Cornelia_Aurivius -> Addtopic "Khur"
Addtopic "Khur"

Not a huge problem, but not only do the two lines do the same thing (as it is Cornelia who is speaking), but 'Khul' is mentioned in the dialog so is added regardless.

That was a really weird issue. It didn't add the 'Khur' topic in the dialogue, so I added both of those lines to be sure. But if they both work, I'll keep that in mind.

Here's an extract from the dialog, I'm sure you can see the error

Code: Select all

I told FireWatchNPC that Khur is dead, and she was very disappointed in me. There is now a bounty on my head for murder.

Heh, FireWatchNPC was the codename I used to make Cornelia more identifiable when I was planning the dialogue in a spreadsheet. Guess I forgot to fix that, will fix.

You didn't do any scripting. If you haven't already read some of 'Morrowind Scripting for Dummies' and try to implement some decent scripts.

After reading this, I downloaded it, will proceed to reading after I've posted this

Edit2: Also, it's a good idea to get used to TR's naming conventions, search around the forum and you will find them

Naming conventions... what?

Again, thanks for the review. I'll have an updated showcase up in a day or two.

[OTRaw]

I guessed that's what you done with FireWatchNPC :p

In TESAME you need to select all the things that shouldn't of been edited, press space so they turn black then press delete to remove them. You then need to save it.

If a topic isn't added I believe that you can add a @ before it, @Khur should of done it. The CS is weird like that sometimes.

On naming conventions, if you boot up map 1 in the CS you will see loads of items that look like this: 'TR_m1_x_x_xxx', your best bet is to search on the forums and find out how to do it.

A couple of things I forgot to mention: The resultant effect killng Khur has on the quest (apart from not following Morrowind law) is good, it shows that you add safety nets, which are obvious ways that the quest can be broken and dealing with them.

Also, try to make the quest have two distinct endings. One where you help to bring Khur down and something completely different, such as helping Khur or whatever you think would be good.

Good luck, I look forward to your next version

[PoisonUnagi]

Yeah, originally I was going to make Khur have a quest for you to do that involved potentially killing Mora or Dondolin (another Bal Oyra inhabitant), but I scrapped that idea.

Thanks for the TESAME help, I'll get to work on this tonight after school (it's monday here )

EDIT: Sorry about the delay, this week's been pretty frantic. I've got the weekend to work on it, expect in in three to five days.

[PoisonUnagi]

Well, that was a bit quicker than I expected. Hope I didn't miss anything.

I decided not to port all the Greetings to Greeting 5, because it'd just take too long. I wrote down on my 'modding tips' sheet that quests always go in Greeting 5.

Anyways, here's the new file.

EDIT: Ah, that's what the naming conventions are. I'll look into it.

[OTRaw]

I'll start reviewing this, but I won't post it yet.

Without moving everything to 5 (apart from those that belong in another greeting), using the naming conventions and make your own objects for when you edit something so that you do not edit the vanilla objects, you won't be able to get a promotion.

If I was you I would do the above so that you don't waste one of your tries. (I think this is your last one right?) But if you still want me to review it I can.

[Why]

The three-strike rule doesn't really apply to quests, only to interiors and exteriors.

It's great to see you've reviewed this OTRaw, I haven't had the chance to take such a thorough look at the file myself, but what you wrote in your review makes sense so thank you very much and keep at it if you want to

I'm okay with not moving everything to Greeting 5. It is a pita indeed, and I'm positive you'll get it right next time.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

The three-strike rule doesn't really apply to quests, only to interiors and exteriors.

I feel as though there should still be some limit, if not still 3. It isn't as though quests shouldn't be playtested before they are submitted.

[PoisonUnagi]

I have a question, if I apply for quests does that mean I can stsill claim NPC Detailing Claims?

(yes, this is also a bump)

[Nanu]

Most TR modders can do NPC detailing claims. If you can do quests, then I know you can do that, seeing as NPCs are sort of the main part of most quests.

[The Greatness]

You probably need to be a quest modder to NPC now because NPCing now includes making the misc quests I believe.

[PoisonUnagi]

And that's exactly what I signed up for

[The Greatness]

And that's exactly what I signed up for

Cool. As long as you stay away from Almalexia. She's mine!

[PoisonUnagi]

Speaking of which, does the TR crew still make modifications to maps 1 and 2 for later releases, or are those versions final?

[Thrignar Fraxix]

yes we still edit those. There are quest claims open for those maps at the moment.

[Haplo]

And that's exactly what I signed up for

Cool. As long as you stay away from Almalexia. She's mine!

We will require someone who has an approved NPC claim for the one with Almalexia in it; it's too big a claim to be someone's first.

And on a bit of a tangent: No one is allowed to reserve claims. Whichever qualified modder claims it first gets it.

[PoisonUnagi]

So, is Why reviewing this now, or what?

[The Greatness]

Not it would seem. I'll have a look if I get a minute or two.

And that's exactly what I signed up for

Cool. As long as you stay away from Almalexia. She's mine!

We will require someone who has an approved NPC claim for the one with Almalexia in it; it's too big a claim to be someone's first.

And on a bit of a tangent: No one is allowed to reserve claims. Whichever qualified modder claims it first gets it.

Yeah, alright, I was kidding about there. Hurrah for wild dreams.

EDIT: where the heck is BC? He hasn't logged in for two weeks, and we kind of need him. I want to get a few quest claims through, and I've been waiting on him.

[Haplo]

He went on holiday for two weeks, which means he should be back pretty soon. Probably like the 25th at the latest.

[Why]

As was I. Back now though, apologies for the inconvenience. I'll take a look at this tomorrow

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Yeah, sorry for absence, but I'm back now. Greatness, if you want to run me by with anything questy that's been on your mind in my off time, drop me a PM.

[The Greatness]

Tell you what, Why seems to have forgotten about tommorow, so I'll take a look. One thing though: it's still not clean. In TESAME, any vanilla objects on your list need to be removed: com_chest_02, active_de_p_bed_28, ex_de_shack_door etc. You've also edited the 'you've failed your oath of silence' entry. Clean out stuff like that.

Don't bother posting a new file yet though, wait for me or someone else to properly review it.

EDIT: the file could've also done without the TR_Map1 and TR_map2 dependancies because we use an internal file, but it's too late now.

ANOTHER EDIT: Can you tell me where to start this quest, Poison?

[Why]

Yeah, my tomorrow got ninja'd by other-stuff-to-do Greatness, you're competent, so feel free to review this if you've got the time.

[PoisonUnagi]

Tell you what, Why seems to have forgotten about tommorow, so I'll take a look. One thing though: it's still not clean. In TESAME, any vanilla objects on your list need to be removed: com_chest_02, active_de_p_bed_28, ex_de_shack_door etc. You've also edited the 'you've failed your oath of silence' entry. Clean out stuff like that.

Don't bother posting a new file yet though, wait for me or someone else to properly review it.

EDIT: the file could've also done without the TR_Map1 and TR_map2 dependancies because we use an internal file, but it's too late now.

ANOTHER EDIT: Can you tell me where to start this quest, Poison?

Talk to Mora Gindal in Bal Oyra, she's on the first shack on the right if you're heading towards the lighthouse.

[The Greatness]

Well, I started testing your quest Poison up till the point where I was asked to go to Khur's shack, and there I hit a pretty big problem; basically, Khur's shack doesn't exist. The interior is there but it isn't linked with the outside and the door in it leads into the middle of a hill. I think what's happened is that you cleaned the cell containing Khur's shack, removing the shack and the changes you made to the landscape.

However, I think you'll need start over with this. The plot is nothing to write home about, but more importantly there are no scripts on show at all. Scripts are an important part of quests and in order to become promoted for quest modding we'll need to see some decent scripting ability, or some dialogue choices backed up by a few quests. Here are a few pointers from what I've played of your quest.

1- Make the dialogue a bit more believable and interesting. I didn't find any misspellings but phraces like 'I'll let you in on a secret' and Mora simply directing you without explanation to Cornelia aren't very realistic nor personal.
2- Play through often. I don't know how you missed that you cleaned Khur's house of the map, or that the journal tells you that Mora doesn't know Cornelia's name but in the dialogue she does.
3- Add more topics to people. People in Firewatch should be able to direct you to Cornelia. People in Bal Oyra should be able to direct you to Khur. Don't assume too much, and avoid leaving the player no clue of where to go. It's nice with topics that everyone can say to add multiple responces with Random100 and use a NotLocal NoLore == 0 check.
4- Clean vanilla references! Cleanlyness is very important with TR, but as you've demonstrated it's important to take a quick check after cleaning to make sure you haven't removed anything important.
5- For you're next file avoid dependancies on TR maps 1 and 2, and don't bother making any interiors, just use vanilla stuff o save time, because we don't review anything other than the quest and when making quests for TR you use cells already made for you.

All in all, pretty good dialogue and solid if basic plot, but we're going to need to see some scripting.

[PoisonUnagi]

Whoa, I didn't realise I'd screwed it up so badly after cleaning it with TESAME. Damnit.

Yeah, I'll get to work on another showcase. It doesn't look like I'll be able to save this one.

Thanks for the feedback/forward anyways.

[The Greatness]

Good luck. I like what I've seen so far, and was suprised at the complete lack of spelling errors I could find, I just didn't see enough for promotion.

[PoisonUnagi]

By the way, can I make this next one dependent on TR_Data?

[The Greatness]

Yeah, no problem, although I can't see why you'd need it for just a quest; like I said, you can save time by just using vanilla places, we won't review any interiors or exterior changes.