q2-22-Imp

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Claim type: Quest
Claim ID: TR_q2-22-Imp (#2111)
Faction: Imperial
Parent claim: TR_2-2-Tel (#65)
Claimed by: Bloodthirsty Crustacean
Status: Approved (Progress: 100%)
Location: (4167, -163)
Files: TR_q2-22-Imp_Bloodthirsty Crustacean_1.esp

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Imperial Cult

Faction Base: Helnim Chapel

Questline Length: suitably small

[gro-Dhal]

Ok, this is my first attempt at an actual questline so bear with me. It's not 100% complete (I need to think of a Shrine Sergeant mission, and work out some quest rewards), but does it look ok?

[gro-Dhal]

Updated, with another almoner quest and a shrine sergeant mission.

[MMMowSkwoz]

How did I not see this before?

I really like these quests. Nice and simple, suitable for the IC. Does Godred give you the shrine sergeant quest? I think the last quest could do with being a little longer. Perhaps you have to find the key yourself? Also, I take it the hidden chamber would need to be created?

[gro-Dhal]

Simple is about all I can manage, i'm happy enough to leave the complicated questlines to you guys.

I guess Godred can be the questgiver for the Shrine Sergeatn quest.

The hidden chamber needs to be created, yes. As do the NPCs Nimbelor and Calaciros. I might modify the quest so that you have to swipe the key from Tel Narrusa.

It also occurs to me that it might be better if you have to make enquiries with the Thieves' Guild yourself in the Thieving Pilgrim quest. I just like the idea of the Cult and the Guild interacting like this.

[MMMowSkwoz]

Sounds good to me. And sorry, I didn't mean simple in a bad way - I think a big uber quest would be completely out of place here.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Yes, Godred should be Shrine Seargeant, and the other guys should do their apportioned jobs (if they have them yet).

Only thing I'd comment is that Telvanni guy should keep his (CS only) Telvanni alleigance, just because it ensures he gets dialogue relevant to the Telvanni district, not Imperial Helnim.

Otherwise, questing gold.

I think maybe one more simple quest would be appreciated, and then this is ready for claiming.

[gro-Dhal]

Ok this is 7 quests: 1 Shrine Sergeant, 2 Healer, 2 Almoner and 2 special missions. Not so much a single storyline as a set of thematically linked tasks.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

These quests are highly accomplished gro-Dhal. I want you to plan more stuff.

A general note for the future: like gro-Dhal said, these are a series of thematically linked tasks, not a storyline. That is what all 'misc faction bases' should be like. Bear this in mind for planning the FG etc. (Not that people wouldn't already, of course)


For the claimant, here is the final questline, with some tweaks from me. (very minor)



The way I see it, the Helnim Imperial Cult has two problems to contend with. The Imperials are losing ground to the Telvanni, and religious faith is losing ground to secularism. As the primary healing institution, they’re also involved with treating the sickness in Helnim.

I have seven quests in mind. The first five are standard Almoner, Healer and Shrine Sergeant quests. These are all available as soon as you arrive. Completing any one of these missions unlocks the first ‘special assignment’, with the second one available on the completion of the first, and also once the player has sufficient FactionReputation to have done four Imperial Cult quests (remember the first half of Map 1 IC will be playable too). The first five quests are about arresting the decline of the Helnim IC, and the last two are about reversing it.

Almoner: Kamlen
Healer: Tiunian Veltrus
Shrine Sergeant: Godred the Weary
‘Special Quest’ giver: Cantorius Tramel

Almoner quest #1: The Wealthy Widower
Leopold Dufrese has been a prominent patron of the Cult in Helnim, but recently he’s started to withhold his generous support. If you speak to him he’ll tell you recent events have caused him a crisis of faith. His wife died, and then he lost his wedding ring. If you ask about his wife he’ll say they lived in the same house for their whole marriage, and that he even proposed to her at the well outside his front door. You should find the ring at the well. Return it to him, and in his gratitude Leopold will promise to start donating to the chapel once more.

Almoner quest #2: The Fearful Foreigner
Misinath Ulvam, a resident of the Telvanni sector of Helnim, has been quietly supportive of the Imperial Cult for some time- to the derision of his neighbours . Recently, as tensions have risen, he no longer feels safe enough to visit the chapel. You must collect his tithes in disguise (a boiled netch leather helm). When you reach Ulvam, he's happy to pay his dues, but he's distressed because one of the Telvanni guards confiscated his copy of 'For My Gods and Emperor'. If you can get it back (it'll be in the Telvanni Armory), or find him another copy, he'll be grateful.

Healer quest#1: Aid for the sick
Sickness is a problem in Helnim, so Tiunian Veltrus needs ten willow anther and five red lichen to make some cure disease potions. He recommends Nalrin Vere’s flower farm, further north along the coast, for the willow plants. The red lichen is much harder to find. The only person he knows who cultivates it is Master Vaerin in Alt Bosara, but it might be easier to look for it elsewhere- it grows in the Vvardenfell Ashlands and various alchemists stock it in small quantities.

Healer quest#2: The Healer's Library
Veltrus needs a copy of 'Notes on Racial Phylogeny'. He used to have a copy but Nevera Dolthernul 'borrowed' it and has since refused to return it. You can give him any copy you come across for your reward, but if you go to Nevera she'll tell you that she's read the book and doesn't think much of it (it doesn't account for the natural superiority of the Dunmer race), and she'll give it back in exchange for 5 pearls that she needs (she likes to crush them into her wine). She suggests you investigate the bay for kollops. When you find her 5 pearls she'll be amused, telling you she only wanted to see a Cult representative running around in circles and getting his feet wet for her amusement. She'd rather it had been Veltrus, but the NPC was sufficiently entertaining. She gives you the book to take back.

Shrine Sergeant quest: Thieving Pilgrim
Nimbelor, a Bosmer thief masquerading as a pilgrim, stole something, a precious bowl or some silverware, from the Cult chapel. Godred asks you to contact the Thieves' Guild and force them to return the treasure. The Guild has a secret base in town, but known thief Tiron Naren frequents Mjornir's Alehouse. Find him, and he'll reveal Nimbelor is not a guild member, and threfore he has no interest in protecting him. He'll tell you he was seen heading West, and he speculates that the Bosmer may be planning to sell his loot to one of the bandit gangs that inhabit the mountains.
You’ll find Nimbelor in the slave pen at Berantus. He tried to sell his ill-gotten gains but the bandits locked him up. He refuses to tell you where the treasure is unless you release him from his slave bracers. The key is at the far end of the cave, along with the treasure (could be carried by Tarvil Gamarus, the ‘boss‘). You go back to Nimbelor, who’s dismayed to see you’ve found what you were looking for, and have the option of releasing him, leaving him or killing him (of course if you haven‘t picked up the treasure for whatever reason, Nimbelor will tell you where to look if you release him). Afterwards you take the treasure back to the chapel for your reward.


Special quest #1: A second opinion
Tramel notes that with the general sickness of the townsfolk of Helnim, Tiunian Veltrus is overworked. What they really need is another healer to tend to the populace. Luckily there’s one passing through town: the Altmer Calaciros (new NPC). He can be found at the Red Drake Inn. You’re to recruit him into the Imperial Cult.
When you find Calaciros, you discover he’s ready to settle down and open to your offer, but regrets he’s signed a long-term contract to serve on Andrere Moriard’s ship, the Eternal Voyager. If you can get Moriard to release him from service, he’ll gladly join the Cult.
Moriard is unwilling to release Calaciros immediately, because he has a problem he’s been trying to keep quiet- his ship is cursed. There’s a dwemer spirit on the lower level that keeps respawning (like the Gateway ghost in Sadrith Mora), and he’s had to go to great lengths to conceal it from his passengers (the lower level should be locked until he gives you a key!). He thinks it might be something to do with the dwemer shield he found on the coast recently. It’s stashed in the cargo hold but he’s too afraid to go down there and get it.
You go downstairs and fight the spirit. When you find the shield, you should get a journal entry prompting you to exorcise it somehow. If you speak to Moriard again he’ll suggest taking it to Tramel at the chapel. When you do this, Tramel exorcises the spirit (maybe using the altar- triggering the ‘altar in use’ graphic?). After this is done, Moriard releases Calaciros from his crew and the new healer takes up permanent residence in the chapel.

Special quest #2: A symbol of hope
Having done the first mission and at least four IC quests (see requirements in more detail at the top of this post) the chapel wants to recover a holy artefact, the Sword of Taldeus. Taldeus was a pious warrior who fought and died in the invasion of Morrowind in the First Era. Upon his death his sword was hidden by his comrades in a Dunmer tomb, in a secret chamber. Maybe Omathi Ancestral Tomb? Tramel has studied the lore surrounding the sword and gives you a rough location of the tomb in question. He also warns you that the sword is accompanied by two duplicates, and that supposedly only the faithful will know which is the real one. He suspects the ‘Lament of Taldeus’ is a clue, and gives you a copy:

O Zenithar
I turn to you in dark times
When nothing is right
And the shadows lie heavy

I try to center myself
But find only emptiness within

But even when hope seems faint
You alone are left to me
And despite all the hardship and pain
That is enough.

He also tells you there's a key to the concealed door in the tomb (hidden behind a tapestry?). The key is in the possession of Vyhlathri Ashara, who doesn't realise its value. It'll be somewhere in his chambers adjacent to the Council room in Tel Narrusa. You're given a scroll of Detect Key to help you find it (these spells never see enough use IMO). Once you find the key and gain access to the hidden chamber, you will find three plinths, each with an identical sword. Two of them are ordinary blades, but the leftmost one is the Sword of Taldeus (‘You alone are left’, geddit?). Picking up any of these weapons will teleport the player back outside the tomb’s entrance, encouraging them to pick correctly the first time but allowing them to recover if they slip up. The sword is not uber powerful, it may not be enchanted at all in fact. Return it to the chapel for your reward, and it will be put on display for pilgrims.

One final thought. As a strong IC improves the morale of the faithful, perhaps the last two quests could be tied in with Lud’s overall quest plan for the city? A stronger faith = stronger Imperial faction?

[Evil Eye]

Can I claim this?
I need to do something in my holiday.

Should there be a disapproving dialogue for killing Nevera Dolthernul?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Because you're relatively new to the questing department, I'd rather you started with something simpler than a full-on faction line. (I won't lie: I'd also rather like to do this myself once I have other duties out of the way, but that doesn't make my recommendation up top any less sincere)

In addition, we're waiting on a merge of .esms in the near future that will make a longer line like this hard to deal with if its done on either side of the merge, so it's best it's put on hold.

If you, really, really want to do this, I might consider it, but you'd need to make a very convincing case.

In the meantime, I'd suggest taking one of the other Map 2 claims (town miscs) available, if you are sure you can be quick with it. Otherwise, it would best to hold off claiming anything just a week or so more, because the Day of Merge is pretty close now. You could begin writing dialogue and anything that does not require use of the CS, however.

I hope this all makes sense. Feel free to check up if I'm saying something odd.

[Evil Eye]

I hope this all makes sense. Feel free to check up if I'm saying something odd.

I understand, it's just that I need to have something to do that takes some time, holiday's pretty long.

[gro-Dhal]

Given the topic I posted about NPC gender imbalances the other day, i'd like to change the Altmer healer to Calaciren, a female. Is that ok? It's an all-male chapel otherwise.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Just to not be sneaky later, and because DoM is approaching sharpish and I've done my big fixing, I am going to claim this.

[gro-Dhal]

DoM?

[Faalen]

Day of Merge. It's the fateful day on which our internal Maps 1 & 2 will be merged and the separate files will become completely obsolete to TR Modders.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Okay, sorry for the delays. Took me awhile to get started here, but once I did, it was very fun.

This questline is untested apart from a few segments. I don't expect many errors, but then again the bits I tested threw up the odd 'error-inducing typo', so I won't claim perfection.

I will test this shortly, and so can anyone else who feels like it.


For the merger:

This is running on a version of TR_Mainland called TR_Mainland (with underscore), so if that would affect merging, take that into account.

Please replace all instances of bk_formygodsandemperor in TR lands with TR_bk_ForMyGodsAndEmperor.

Please make the walk up to Berantus actually usable (and more geologically feasible).

Once merged, please ensure that there are not two books on the altar in the Helnim, Imperial Chapels. Please ensure that by the secret passage in Omathi Tomb, it is TR_m2_q_22_Wall that blocks the way only, and that there is not a duplicate in_velothi_corner_small or whatever there as well.

Also check the doors to the upper deck (from the exterior) and lower deck (from the upper deck interior) of The Eternal Voyager and ensure that both are not duplicated, and have a key locking them.

In the lower deck of the Eternal Voyager, please remove the barrel to the right of the 'central pole'.

Also note that this file will appear somewhat dirty, as I made some rather obscure fixes in this file that I would forget otherwise. These are mainly to the Map1 IC quests, and some other things (like the Kmlz_dead rat (don't ask)).

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Okay, this file is now essentially complete. I have tested it and everything seems to work, apart from one thing. The game does not like the PositionCell used on Calaciren. It CTDs when I try and speak with her in the Chapel.

Disabling then enabling her fixes this when done manually by the player through the console, but not when done via a script. (The script in question is TR_m2_q_22_Exorcism_Script)

This is irritating. I might just resort to the ugly 'duplicate NPCs' technique.

[MMMowSkwoz]

I'm taking a look now. Will edit this post.

***EDIT***

Ok, well I wasn't able to replicate your error - she moved to the Imperial Chapel with no problems.
(Placing the script on the shield was unexpected - I'd assumed it was on the NPC so I kept going in and out of the inn and wondering why she wasn't moving. That's what you get for modding too much... >.< )
So I'm not really sure what's happening there. Perhaps try moving it to a global script?

However, I did get several load errors:

Object reference "in_de_shipdoor_toplevel"
missing in master file.
Object reference "TR_m2_Tiunian Veltrus"
missing in master file.

and various other strangeness - Cantorius was cloned and one of the room statics in the chapel has been deleted, so there was a giant hole in the universe.

Also, the book on the alter did not disable when the shield appeared.

What is the purpose of TR_m2_q_22_IgnoreMarker?

Perhaps it would be better to move those other bug fixes to a seperate file to avoid things conflicting?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I'm amused you weren't able to replicate the error but got all the other weirdness.

All of that sounds like changes to references being ignored, and is nothing to do with my neglibible fixes to scripts and stuff elsewhere.

E.g. the book on the altar was deleted and replaced with a unique version. In your game, presumably it's ignored my change to the deleted reference and kept it in.

the hole in the universe, I must have accidentally clicked on that wall static the wrong way, 'dirtying' the file, and now it jettisons that data, taking the wall with it.

the ship door is a reference (not a master object, just to clarify) I changed to give it a new key.


The purpose of Ignore Marker is that a) you ignore it (:P) and b) it provides a target for Cantorius to aim his spell at. If you don't have one, he aims at the wall behind him.


I'm not sure how to resolve these errors. Maybe you're using a different version of Mainland to me (should I upload mine here?) or maybe we'll have to revert to the clunky old method of 'don't put anything in the world, let the merger place them'. Though I don't know why it would cock up now when letting us place our stuff has worked fine for the past however many quests merged.

[MMMowSkwoz]

I think it's the removing items, rather than placing them, that is the issue. So if you've replaced anything (the book, for example), the old one will still be in my file as well as your new one.
So I think if we need to delete anything as part of a quest, that will need to be done on merging.
(this happened with q2-9. I deleted loads of items from a shack in my quest .esp, but they all reappeared on merging)
But then if it won't let you delete anything, how did that static disappear? *confused*

Oh, and some more things I just remembered:

- I couldn't get into the 2nd level of the ship with the key given to me - I had to 'unlock' it.
- The bottom level of the ship was very difficult to move around in. Some barrels or crates should be deleted so you can at least get to the shield.

Do you want me to give it another run through?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Those two are further ref errors. I accounted for them in my 'Notes to Merger' (check the right door is used, delete a barrel).

I don't understand why these problems don't show up in my file though? Is it because you're not starting from a pre-TR save, perhaps? Would Wrye Mash sort your problems? My default testing save is a guy saved just after having got the 'You should check your journal and go to Arille's' message in Seyda Neen, prior to installation of TR.

[MMMowSkwoz]

My default save is the same (new game, Seyda Neen, only Morrowind, Tribunal, and Bloodmoon loaded).

The difference is probably due to a different version of TR_Mainland (I get "different version of master file blah blah") on loading in the CS and game. Mine is the one uploaded by Haplo, just with the name changed to add the underscore.

The static is also missing when I load up that cell in the CS.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Really?? That is very weird.

Okay, here's my version of Mainland. See what happens if you run with this.

[MMMowSkwoz]

How bizarre. When I load it with your version everything is fine.

However, when I tested it by merging it with the existing TR_Mainland.esp (according to the method Haplo said he used), everything you had deleted or moved was still there, so double alters, double books, double Tiunian Veltrus, etc.

So I think we're going to have to say "no deleting anything" in quest .esp files, which is going to make life a bit annoying. What do you think?

I've honestly no idea why that static piece disappeared. Just to make sure, it might be best to clean that cell in your file and re-place all the items you need to place (there should only be about 5?). I did that as a test and it fixed the problem when using my .esm (although of course I didn't place everything at the right angle, etc).

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I'm just astounded this has never come up before. Except in your Adurin-Ouaka quests, I suppose...

Well, if we make a note of every reference we delete/replace/move/edit, then the merger can ensure the right one gets in ultimately.

So for this file, I know it's Tiunian Veltrus; the altar-book combo; the doors and barrel in Voyager; the wall in Omathi Ancestral Tomb.

Thinking about it, this is probably a pretty rare occurence. It's just unusual that a whole bunch were concentrated by the need for so many unique (but pre-existing) items in the Chapels for the exorcism scene and the addition of a key for the Eternal Voyager.


I suppose that's what we'll have to do.

[MMMowSkwoz]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Maybe someone else knows more about it. But that's probably the best plan for now.

But back to the quest, everything seemed good on my playtesting. Are you still having those problems with CTD?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Yes. But then this file is evidently so weird that if it's not happening for you, I'll wait until it gets merged to check it again. Worst comes to worst, I'll use a duplicate. This is hardly show-stopping.

[gro-Dhal]

Good to see i'm giving you guys a challenge.

[Why]

Want me to review this BC? If so I'll put it on the bottom of my to-do list.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Feel free. Anyone with a working copy of Morrowind can, but quest expertise always helps. Cheers.

[Haplo]

Bump. (still needs review)

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

This can probably be merged. Errors like the ones me and Skwoz were discussing above will be easier to fix once it's all in its final locations.

[gro-Dhal]

Fuck, hang about... can you still wear netch leather helms if you're a beast race?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

If you're talking about quest 2, I think I excised that requirement, possibly for that reason.

In any case, all the player has to do is visit the chap and collect the funds: the helm is no longer a requirement. After all, all he needs to avoid is being seen to visit the Chapel.

[gro-Dhal]

Top stuff

[Katze]

Beast races can wear ordinary netch leather helms, but not the boiled netch leather versions.

[arvisrend]

There is something I don't like about this questline from the gameplay perspective. This is pretty much subjective, so don't treat this as a bug report or something. I'm basically saying that it is not really compatible with my personal game behaviour.

When I have finished a quest for some person, I usually don't bother talking to him again unless he EXPLICITLY tells me (like Lalatia in vanilla MW) that he has another quest for me. This way I would miss out several Helnim IC quests. Besides, I expect it even less that an NPC has new quests for me just because I have done some unrelated quests by other people or got a rank raise - unless he has told me before that he has something to offer me later (the most user-friendly way, imho, would be to start a dummy quest in the diary with an entry like "I should come back to xxx when I have done some more questing" (of course less generic), which stays in the Unfinished Quests until the player actually HAS obtained this new quest from xxx). Again, this made me miss Special Quest 2.

I found the ring quest hard (i. e., had to look for it in the CS), but this doesn't mean it is hard. In hindsight, the guy gave a good hint about where the ring lied; I should just have listened... Otherwise, nice questline, but I will wait for the map merge before I do a more thorough testing.

[Haplo]

Is BC's August 2009 post with the file the latest version, or is the one at the top of the claim thread the latest version?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

It seems unlikely that the top file would be older. Looks like I only uploaded one file in the thread, and I tend to upload my WIPs down below and keep the top for finished deals. But I couldn't say for sure, this was ages ago.