q2-21-Imp

[Shapeshiftr]

I've made a pledge not to read the gambit questline, as I want to experience the craziness for myself when I first play the quest. Is a jailbreak a part of gambit? I'll break my pledge if I need to, but I just think these main quests are so crazy that reading the design would spoil the amazing-ness.

As for the last quest - cool, scriptable, fits with other quests? Am I good to go to base the next quest on this one?

AS for the title, Trapped! or something like Breaking Bars (that title sucks) might work. I think Trapped or Trapped! works just fine, though.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

At present, this line is more important to me than Gambit, which can always be tweaked as necessary. I agree that maybe it doesn't have to be Tiron in jail, but yeah, this is a fine base to work off.

[Shapeshiftr]

OK, switching the order around a bit. The previous jailbreak quest comes after this. This quest is either Imperial Legion
or TG, you can't keep going in one if you choose the other.
(6) Hofmund's Questline - Uncovering the Truth

Talk to the Hoff-Man for some work, and he'll reply, "Well, the evidence is here, %PCName, but we're still missing something. Remember that slip of paper you found on the guard you looted? Along with the file you found in Alerinus' manor, we've been slowly uncovering something bad here. We're not exactly sure, though - there's still something missing from the equation. Turns out that guard was only the last shipment of money. They got by at least 100,000 septims without us even batting an eye! So, they've got funding, they've got resources, they've got government backing...except we don't know what they're doing. We have a "[secret weapon] (this is the topic)," though. (New NPC) Gaeren is our contact in the Legion. He's been working undercover for a while now, keeping an eye on Caeden, and has built up quite a reputation in the Legion. Only problem is, now with all this hub-bub, we can't arrange a meeting without blowing his cover. Both sides are working day and night. That's where you come in. I need you to get to Gaeren and find out what's happening. You have to do it discreetly. We set up a code, in case of emergency. I would go in there and do it myself, but the Legion members know all our faces. You're new around these parts, though. OK, so when you get to him, first ask him about "the weather," then "arms shipment," and then "Scrib Cabbage." "The weather" tells him there's an emergency, "arms shipment" tells him to meet behind the smith's house, - Argul Gro-Urgush in this case - and "Scrib Cabbage" tells him at midnight. I thought that one up myself. Clever, huh? Anyway, remember the code words. Best of luck, friend."

OK, head on over to the militia HQ. If you want to, make it so the player can't sneak, there's a function that returns 1 is the player is sneaking, so as to make sure he's not suspicious. This isn't really necessary, though. Head down to Gaeren, a Wood Elf (duh). First he'll say, "Welcome, friend. What can I do for you?" Three options, one of them being, "I'm well, Gaeren. Have you seen the weather lately? Strange, huh?" If you say this, Gaeren will respond, "There's a storm coming, I hear. It already feels like it. Say, what did you come here for?" The correct option is "I was told to inform you of an arms shipment arriving soon." His response, if this is said, is, "I see. We were also told that there would be some food coming along soon. Do you know what types of food will be arriving?" Finally, the response will be something along the lines of "Scrib cabbage, I hear. Hate the stuff, myself." Afterwords, Gaeren will say, "It was good talking with you, friend. I am very busy, though, and I must get back to my work. Maybe I can buy you a drink at the bar some time. Goodbye." Or something to that effect.

At midnight (just enable him at midnight, then set DoOnce to 1, so he won't come back again), meet Gaeren behind the building. You have 2 options - 1. Turn him in (only if you are part of the IL) See my post tomorrow under the IL questline, if that's not open, or done, I'll post it here or something. Basically, you need to report the traitor to Caeden, then arrest him here at midnight. This will expel you permanently from the TG. You will get an average reward from the IL questgiver, thanking you for "getting rid of a nuisance." Also, more guards will be placed around Helnim proper subsequently. Alternatively, this could not be connected to the IL - just head to Caeden and inform him of Gaeren, the make the arrest. This way, if you choose B., you wont be expelled from IL. B. ForceGreeting - "OK, friend, I don't have much time, so let's make this quick. This is REAL bad for the guild - possibly the end of the Helnim branch - Caeden is planning on tightening security all throughout town. He's getting massive funding to double the guard force. Also, they're running a search through every building in town. They'll be sure to find the base, what with Falkoth being the unreliable swit he is. Basically, the only way we can stop this from happening is to remove the funding. Caeden's got 4 safes holding the money. We need our best people for this one - it needs to be quick and efficent. Tell Hoff to mobilize his best men. If you care about the guild, then this is your chance, (brother/sister). Best of luck. Goodbye." With this info, head back to Hoff and inform him of the situation.

No reward, quest end. This was kind of a bridge quest to get more info. Should be short.


Next quest that I wrote before will be getting together three more of Hoff's best men. Lirielle will be going, so will Tiron, and of course you, but he has one of his masters in jail, that Khajit. Next quest coming soon.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Sounds good. On some of the minor details I'd change some of the details about shipments of money etc. Or at least make it more vague. We don't really need to know what's going on, just that it's giving Caedan new powers, and the idea that the Guild would miss a 100,000 gold shipment, or that such a thing could be done on the sly at all in an age before credit transactions, just seems a bit amiss. The general idea of a promise of support would do. And Gaeren sounds too like Caedan. There's already a Wood Elf in the Militia: he's pretty generic, so use him instead.

But yeah, I like it. Sounds very good.

[Shapeshiftr]

OK, thanks for the feedback, BC. Here's the revised version of quest number 6. BTW, I made two quests #4 by accident.

(6) Hofmund Quest Line - Assembling the Team

If the meeting with Miremos (I don't think that's a very Wood Elf-y name, but that's the Wood Elf in the HQ) goes well, inform Hoff of the plot - "Oh. Oh Stendarr. This IS bad, just as I thought. Miremos' right - this could very well be the end of the Thieves' Guild as we know it, unless we act fast. Like Miremos said, we'll need four of our best men, plus one to guard the base. Let's see...Lirielle should be able to go, as well as Tiron...and, you, of course...I should stay here at the HQ...this leaves us short one person. I would call on Valtio to help, but he's out on a mission abroad. That leaves me with only one choice - our old prodigious thief was caught on a minor mission about two months ago, and the guards took the opportunity to bust him, as everyone knew it was him who was accountable for the most part of the robberies of the past year. His name is Mrajasi. He's being kept in their maximum-security cell in the basement of the prison. This calls for a jailbreak. Preferably, I would organize a breakout of all of our members, but we have to keep this discreet and quick. You'll have to sneak past several guard undetected, and it's not going to be as easy as just invisibility. There will be several doors that you must unlock, which negate the effect of invisibility. By accepting this, you're putting life, welfare, and all of your possessions on the line; this is by no means a simple mission. What do you say, %PCName? You in or out?" The player is then given a choice of yes or no. NOTE: This quest is very complicated script wise, but I know it to be possible. Bear with me.

Yes - "Good, I always knew you were loyal to the Guild, %PCName. He's being held at the jail across town. Security there is tight, though. It will be by no means an easy task. Of course, I'll send you along with the proper equipment, but that's not the only catch. On sight, the guards will throw you out of the whole building, and if they're seeing you enough sneaking in, they might even arrest you (yes, totally inspired by Legend of Zelda). They've kept him in the bottom chamber, away from all the faulty cells and other criminals. They know he's good, and they're not taking any chances. I've been down there before - if there is any high-security jail in all of Morrowind, Helnim jail is it. I don't know how many guards are patrolling, but they have set patrolling routes, and rarely stray from those paths. This is where their security fails - patterns can be learned and manipulated. You're smart, %PCName, find a way to get past the guards, which shouldn't be too hard with some invisibility, then open each door without them seeing you. There are 3 levels before you get to the cell, if I remember correctly. I'll send you with some potions of invisibility, a nice set of probes and lockpicks (1 of each; master), and scrolls of divine intervention for you and Mrajasi. Best of luck, %PCName. You'll definitely need it."

OK, scripting notes - Fargoth's script - PCDetect stuff. That should work. Prison Expansion should be tweaked a bit so that there's a Hyrule Courtyard-esque feel of following closely behind guards, around walls and such. This shouldn't be too hard, though. NPCs have pathgrids, and they should stop at every corner. There should be progressively more guards on each level, 1 or 2 on the first, 2 or 3 on the second, and 3 or 4 on the third. Each guard patrols his segment of the wall - make the wall-mazes increasingly more complex as the rooms progress. Doors between each level, locked and possibly trapped. Possibly, if the quester feels like it, he might put in a pair of keys to be stolen from next to a guard on the last level. The player could alternatively unlock the doors himself. Like some Map 1 quest, give the scroll of divine intervention (or a TR_teleport_scroll type thing) to Mrajasi, and he'll be gone and in the TG hideout under Falkoth's once you leave the cell. Really, all that needs to happen to the expansion frame is to expand it some more, and put walls for the player to follow a guard around in. Also, you might want to put in shortcuts through jail cells. Just an idea.

Go through the jail per directions above, give Mrajasi the scroll. Teleport out or leave, talk to Hoff. He'll thank you and give you a substantial reward.

[Shapeshiftr]

I'm getting all my numbers mixed up? Just to make things clear, here is the list of quests-

(1) Fitting In

(2) Tiron Naren's Questline - Test of Loyalty

(3) Tiron Naren's Questline - A Midnight Murder

(4) Lirielle's Questline - An Eyestar for an Eyestar

(5) Lirielle's Questline - Anonymous Request

(6) Hofmund's Questline - Uncovering the Truth

(7) Hofmund's Questline - Assembling the Team

I'm at a loss for what to do for the last quest, though. I have everything building up to it, but just sneaking into the militia and opening a chest with some money in it hardly seems climactic. Right now, I'm just open to ideas that I could build up off of. Comments appreciated.

[Shapeshiftr]

Ok, sorry for the triple post, but I have two ideas.

1. Finish it up with a semi-climactic tense finale, where the player has to get by each member in the HQ via choosing the right dialogue decisions (persuasion is especially important in the TG - speechcraft), then finally convince Jorval to leave his room for one reason or another. Then, once he's gone, the player can unlock the back room, steal some money and important paper, thus sabotaging the plan.

2. This would get rid of the jailbreak plan, which I, personally, really liked, but it's much more interesting. The dialogue with Miremos needs to be changed in order to say how the Tel Muthada lord, who also cares about cracking down on criminals, joined together with Caeden and the crew to crack down on vagabonds. Her care for her town and getting rid of criminals outweighs her hate for the imperials in this case. Miremos tells you about this shaky relationship, and in order to save the TG, you need to make the Imperials look back, by framing Caeden for something, or sabotaging one of their plans. By doing one of those, Tel Muthada chick would turn on the Imperials, and start a fight with them, thus making no progress. A possible ending for this is, while the Telvanni and Imp.s are fighting, the player would help move the TG to a more permanent location, so they wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this happening again, and the guards, Telvanni and Imperial alike, are distracted, so it would be a perfect idea.

Neither of the ideas are fleshed out particularly, but I like the 2nd idea better, despite its removal of the jailbreak. It's just overall more exciting and interesting, and plays with the shaky relationships between the Imperials and the Telvanni, just furthering their hate for each other. It end much more interestingly, and is just plain better. Of course, in addition to the removal of the jailbreak, it would require two ideas to be re-written. That's cool with me, now that I have some inspiration. Though if 2 is not cool, then I'll finish it up with idea #1. Comments?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I like this one better too.

I'm a little hesitant on Jorval making an alliance with Telsaren, but in general I like this idea better. If it can be fleshed out more, with a more concrete reason as to why these two polar opposites would coordinate efforts, I'd definitely go for this.

Don't worry about moving the Thieves base, though.

[Shapeshiftr]

Ok, rewriting 3 quests, and making the last one. Here is the first rewrite.

(3) Tiron Naren's Questline - A Midnight Meeting

Talk to Tiron for some more work, and he'll reply, "Yes, good timing, %PCRank. We've gotten wind of something happening with our friends over at the Militia HQ. They're as tight-lipped as always about these matters, so I don't think you'll be able to bribe the information out of anyone, as not many more people than Caedan Jorval himself probably know what's happening. We do know one thing, though - Valtus Alerinus, a local noble, has some part in whatever is going on, maybe a lawyer or something to that extent. He should have some financial record or document of sorts on what's going on. Sneak in to him manor, find the record, and get out of there unnoticed. Do NOT attack anybody; this is a priority - even though it would be my preferred method, and so much easier, as it would remove all possible eyewitnesses, it could blow the whole operation. Direct orders from Hofmund." Sneak into Valtus Alerinus' Manor, and there should be a rolled document on the desk upstairs, along with some other rolled papers that are already there. Give the paper to Tiron, and he'll say that he needs a day or so to decode the text from Daedric. Once he's done, talk to him, and he'll say, "Well, the decoding is done, and it seems something is going on with Caedan Jorval, just as we suspected; something about a "side project." Well, this document is a note from the head of the Telvanni guard at Tel Muthada. From what I worked out, there is going to be some kind of "[townwide search]". The letter also mentioned something about "[reinforcements]." I can't imagine why the Telvanni would possibly want to work with the Imperial Guard, but it seems that whatever the scenario is, this is BAD news for the guild. I'm guessing, coming from a guard captain to Jorval, that he means a search of every building in the town for wanted criminals in hiding, and in any case, strengthening the guard force means bad news for us. Even with this information, though, I can't think of how to stop anything. There's one last piece of information on the paper: a midnight meeting between Caeden and Telsaren. I want you to go and find out what's happening. The meeting is at midnight tomorrow, at the Tel Muthada docks. Follow Caedan from the HQ, but DO NOT let yourself be seen. Listen in on their meeting, then get out of there. Once it's over, report immediately back to me." Get into position, and at midnight the next night, you should see Caedan walking from the HQ. I think the walking script could be much like Fargoth's script, so at a certain time, he is enabled, and then starts walking towards Helnim Docks, and if he spots the player, then he runs away. "Listen in on the conversation," and you'll automatically have a scroll in your inventory, which is a copy of the conversation that you "took while listening." This is the only way I could think of getting that text in there without using voice acting; if there's a better way, please, share. The conversation should go something like this: "T: Hello, Jorval. You're 5 minutes late. C: Ah, my apologies, madame. How goes you? T: I'm fine. Let's not waste away the time with idle chat, though, Imperial. You know why we're here. We both want the best for Helnim. I have money and political backing, you have men and supplies. I'll tell you right out that I'm not at all keen about working with your kind, but you could prove useful to me. C: Prove useful to YOU? Remember, Telsaren, this is not a one-sided deal. We help each other out to get the job done. That's the idea. But don't try any of your Telvanni trickiness, or I'll make sure you never live to laugh about it. T: How rude, Imperial. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, and you threaten me so? Remember, without me, you would never be able to do lift a finger for this town, so don't get on my bad side. You don't want to experience that side of me. C: You're walking a fine line here, Telsaren.? T: This conversation is getting no where, Imperial. I don't have time to waste arguing with the likes of you. Take this letter, I except a prompt response. Goodbye, Imperial." Return to Tiron, and he'll give you something from his latest excursion - a ring of Ekash's Locksplitter, aka open 100 points, and a few quality potions of invisibility. He'll then comment on how this is getting to bigger things, and that he's handing of the situation to Hofmund, the most competent in the TG. He'll also remind you that Lirielle has some work. Quest Complete.

Here ends Tiron's questline. On to Lirielle's quests. Lirielle is the cat burglar-sneak thief, unlike Tiron. Her morals about human life are also more caring.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

As a minor tweak, I would perhaps have two representatives of the people in question meeting at the docks, not the actual guys themselves. It stretches the imagination that either of these two important people would skulk around like that.

Otherwise, good: keep it coming.

[gro-Dhal]

What exactly is missing from this plan? And from the other one, as i've forgotted whether i'm writing this on the FG or TG thread

[immortal_pigs]

I think all that's missing is the final quest.

Here's an overview of the questline, first in summary, then in the way Shapeshiftr posted it, and a visual overview of relevant NPCs.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Just gave this a skim, thanks for summary: very helpful.

Quest 1) can go, because as I said somewhere here, getting a key to the basement from Falkoth is already handled in existing dialogue, so that quest is superfluous.

Quest 2) dialogue for Reema and Tiron is based around the fact that they're in conversation about her joining the Guild. So leave her where she is, tweak the dialogue to make sense for her speaking in Tiron's presence. (i.e. don't let the player let her get away)

Quest 4) should be redone to an extent - Dremil Seniran is an educated Imperial-sympathising possible Blade, not some comedy-value perv old man. Replacing items with fake ones is overdone.

Quest 5) personally I think suits Telsaran fine. We could change it to her adviser if you want.

[MMMowSkwoz]

Quest 5) personally I think suits Telsaran fine. We could change it to her adviser if you want.

I'd recommend making it the advisor - he's a much sneakier character in general. Also, if you've done the Telvanni line Telsaran might not be in much of a state to do anything really.

[Why]

Changing 5 to Telsaran's advisor would make sense. I think it suits her rather brutal nature but chances are such things would be handled by her advisor anyway. I'd say we drop quests 1 and 4 because I think we really should be aiming for six (maybe seven) quests max. I'd also still like to see a quest where the player has to break into the Governor's bedroom, though this could possibly be involved in a quest for higher ranked guild members (I'm assuming we're gonna have some sort of centralized command structure like any guild has, so the "main branch" would give out higher profile quests)

[immortal_pigs]

Quest 1) dropped.

Quest 2) Valtio will whisper when speaking about Reema. The two options are now: 1. Get information and let her go 2. Kill her.

Quest 4) dropped.

Quest 5) I agree it suits Telsaren, but that doesn't mean it has to be her who the player talks to. I think a Telvanni ruler would have better things to do and get it handled by an advisor.

There are now 7-8 quests, depending on whether you consider finding the guild via Valtio a quest.

====

Final Quests:

(7) The Heist
The player has freed Mrajasi from jail. Mrajasi, Tiron and Lirielle are assembled at Falkoth's. Talk to Hofmund and he will explain the plan.

Jorval has the funds stashed in 4 different locations, all of them guarded. The player is to go to "Helnim, Militia Headquarters". An extra interior will have been made "Helnim, Militia Vault". The player has to get to the vault, find the safe and steal the money (1200 gold?). Get journal update directing the player back to Falkoth's.

Return to Falkoth's. Everyone's back, except Mrajasi. Hofmund will first ask for the gold.
A. Give Hofmund 1200 gold
B. [Lie] Give Hofmund 1000 gold

Hofmund is concerned about Mrajasi not having returned. He will explain where Mrajasi was sent; "Helnim, Docks Storage". The place looks like this from top-downs:

(tower)=======(tower)

G = Guard
M = Mrajasi

(tower)=G=M=G=(tower)

So Mrajasi is surrounded by two guards. They will kill Mrajasi, which prompts a journal update "Mrajasi is dead. I should get the gold and get out of here". So run to his corpse, grab the gold and run from the guards (who turn hostile). Killing the guards only means getting a bounty.

Get back to Hofmund. Give the gold. Hofmund is happy but sad about Mrajasi.

(8) In your face
Hofmund is happy about the successful heist, but wants to rub it into Jorval's face. He has written a little note in which he goads over his sabotaging of Jorval's plan, explicitly stating it was he, Hofmund, responsible for it.

Hofmund wants the player to deliver this note, in person, to Caedan Jorval. The player gets a [helmet] to cover his identity. The orders are not(!) to kill anyone. Give the note and get out of there.

Go to the Militia HQ, give the note to Jorval. Jorval reads the note then and there, gets angry and starts to attack the player. Everyone in the HQ turns hostile. Get out of there, return to Hofmund. After 1-2 days the NPCs are reset and no longer hostile.

* This quest only gives a reward, no FactionRep.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I still don't quite like the idea of the player just nicking '1200 gold' from a Vault. Money in Morrowind is so meaningless that that just seems like a petty amount. The player probably has several times that amount just in loose change. I had reservations earlier about the idea of the TG missing such a large-influx of raw gold as well.

I don't like these two seperate occasions with violent enemies who you're meant to flee from. Combat in Morrowind is always resolved by death, not escape, and in sheer gameplay terms, running away is not a credible experience in Morrowind. In any case, I dislike the entire premise of quest 8, and the fact that realistically it is highly likely to end up encouraging the player to kill Jorval and all the Militia.

For 7 I'd just have Mrajasi dead - without having to worry about the guards - but then that takes the threat away from the quest. In any case, fighting guards is not what TG is about, and fleeing is no fun in Morrowind.

[immortal_pigs]

I had reservations earlier about the idea of the TG missing such a large-influx of raw gold as well.

What are you referring to?
___

Here's a different version for "The Heist".
Is this more in the right direction?
Maybe needs to be expanded a bit more?

(7) The Heist
The player has freed Mrajasi from jail. Mrajasi, Tiron and Lirielle are assembled at Falkoth's. Everyone is dressed up with Imperial Legion armor. Talk to Hofmund and he will explain the plan.

Jorval has the funds stashed in 4 different locations, all of them guarded. Mrajasi, Tiron and Lirielle will all go to a different location, dressed as guards, to infiltrate and get the "funds". The player gets a set of Legion Armor, put it on. If something goes wrong, don't come back to Falkoth's, go to [meetup location outside of Helnim].

The player is to go to "Helnim, Militia Headquarters". (Caeden Jorval, Miramos and other non-generic NPCs will be gone, replaced by a bunch of guards).

An extra interior will have been made "Helnim, Militia Vault". The Vault is unguarded. The player has to get to the vault, find the safe. However, upon opening the safe, it turns out the "funds" consist of a big stash of Telvanni Bug Musk! Telvanni Bug Musk is of course very valuable, but impossible to fence in such a suspiciously large quantity. Also, the player now smells of Bug Musk. This prompts a journal.

Upon leaving the Vault, getting close to a guard (inside the Militia Headquarters) will prompt the forcegreet "Thief! You reek of Bug Musk. I have orders by Caedan Jorval himself to lock you up!" The player can now kill/run away from the guards. Guards in Militia Headquarters have 0 alarm so no bounty consequences. Outside however, imperial guards will still notice the smell and be suspicious.

Get out of Helnim and get to the meetup. Hofmund is pissed off for having been bested by Jorval; he's got the "funds", but they're practically useless, as they cannot be hidden or sold because of the smell. The player can keep the Bug Musk they stole if they like.

Wait a few days and the thieves will have been re-enabled at Falkoth's.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Very good. I really like this new version. On many different levels, this is far superior!

[Haplo]

"Thief! You reek of Bug Musk. I have orders by Caedan Jorval himself to lock you up!"

This seems a bit abrupt... how about something more like "You there, halt! Hmm... you reek of Bug Musk! It appears you were not smart enough to disguise your odor, thief! Caedan Jorval has personally ordered the arrest of whoever stole the Bug Musk, and it looks like I'll be the one getting the credit for the catch."

I just think it's a bit weak as-is; they wouldn't just call the first person who smells of bug musk walking by a thief and talk so matter-of-factly about locking them up. The enhanced dialogue above not only is fleshed out more, but also gives the sense of the guard stopping him based on reasonable suspicions, taking a moment to determine the merit of the stop, and then slightly basking in his own luck while explaining a bit to the player why the guard stopped him.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Dialogue is written by questers, not planners, so Impi's line was nothing but a general 'gist' direction. Actual dialogue can be sorted out once this is claimed.

[Why]

I'd rather not have everyone in the milita headquarters replaced with guards. Also setting a guard's alarm to zero doesn't seem to work. How about, once the player finds the Bug Musk (sweet idea to use bug musk by the way) a guard gets enabled inside the vault, near the door, like he just entered. Guard forcegreets the player, player can either kill him or run.

[Haplo]

Were the guards expecting the player? if not it might seem too staged. Perhaps spawn him less close, so that it seems the player runs into him on an extra patrol due to reported suspicions or something.

[Why]

It could be a coincidence, or maybe the player tripped a hidden alarm. Not everything needs to be explained.

[Haplo]

That's a pretty big coincidence. I would suggest against a hidden alarm; if that were the case then the player should have the opportunity to disarm it which would require a whole new branch to the quest, seeing as how a successful disarm would generally mean a clean getaway.

[Why]

I still maintain not everything has to be explained, and coincidents, even pretty big ones, do exist, and why would a hidden alarm have to be disarmable? But if it really should be explained we should probably come up with something. Something that doesn't involve replacing NPCs with Guards since the milita headquarters suddenly being populated by legion guards makes no sense. One guard in the vault is acceptable though, maybe we should just do that.

[Haplo]

Because part of the philosophy of TR is that you can play it, not watch it happen. But anyway, here's the thing about the guard. If there's usually a guard here, that's fine. If the guard does normal patrols by here (pathgrid) that's fine. But if it's just some vault that's never got any NPC around, and then the moment you walk out there's a guard right there ready to apprehend you, you're going to think that it's not fair, there's no reason for him to be there, it doesn't make sense, you should've had a chance to get out safely, psychic guards are lame/belong in Oblivion, etc. etc.

[The Greatness]

You could leave a gaurd a decent distance away, and when the player finds the Bug Mask an AI package is triggered which makes him walk towards the vault, as if on patrol.

Alternatively, have no scripted guard. Instead the hardest part of the quest will be to get out of the headquaters stinking of Bugmask. If the player gets to close to any guards they will be suddenly alerted by the smell and forcegreet, placing a bounty on the player. However, if they get out safely they get away with it. A journal update should make it clear that the player shouldn't get too close to a guard incase they smell the Bugmask.

And perhaps instead of replacing the whole of the miltia headquaters with guards for one day great a whole new complex below the headquaters where the vault is located, and fill that full of guards.

[Why]

There already are a lot of Imperial military holdings in Helnim, I'd hate to see it expanded even further just for a quest.

[The Greatness]

Then we don't really have a choice but to replace the malitia with guards briefly. I don't really know the background to this quest, but I guess if this is a recent shipment that has only just arrived it would make sense.

[Shapeshiftr]

So, would the Bug Musk heist conclude the series? It seems like that quest isn't really in the TG's favor, and not a very satisfying end to 5 quests of build-up. How about, for the final quest, Hofmund gets back at Jorval for the fiasco?

Also, why would Jorval suddenly have guards posted around his stock, unless he was A), only keeping the musk there for a short time, or B), was expecting a heist, and had knowledge of the TG's plot?

Also again, how could the player reek of Bug Musk after only opening a chest? It's not like the decanters were open...

Lastly, if this does indeed turn out to be the quest, I'd like to see some dialogue from the other co-conspirators, commiserating with you about their similar finds.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Sorry for the delay, yeah this questline definitely needs one more 'finale' quest to go after the Heist.

[The Greatness]

One of the main hooks of this quest was that the heist was a failure because the Bug Musk would be impossible to sell, so how about a quest that sees the player ransom it to the imperials. Here's an early version:

Quest 8- Face to Face

The player is asked to find out why the Imperials were keeping such a large quantity of bug musk. He is pointed towards Caedan Jorval's quarters.

The player sneaks in there and finds a journal somewhere. Reading the journal the player discovers that the only way Caedan could secure the funds to pay for an increase in guards was to transport a large amount of prisoners to the Telvanni as slaves, and promise more when the guard sweep was done. He made sure to keep this secret from the countess of Helnim. However, the Telvanni tricked him and delivered their payment in excess bug musk due to a loop-hole in their contract or suchlike.

Return to Hofmund with or without the diary and explain what is going on. He plans to blackmail Caedan. He gives the player a letter to give to Caedan, which the player can give to his secutary or representative (to prevent sneaking through the same area). He tells the player to return tonight in [X secret location, not Falkoth's].

The player arrives to see Hofmund waiting. Talk to him and Caeden will be enabled over a nearby hill or behind a building and approach the two incognito. The player is tasked with talking with Caedan and depending on what he says Caedan will either hand over a lot of money and leave, or will attack the player, and will have the money on his corpse. Either way the money is split between the player and Hofmund. If Caeden survives he will resign his position, and either way he will be replaced with the former ruler of the guard who Hofmund had a deal with.

This will be revealed when the player returns to Falkoth's, and the TG will now have a lot of money and their favourite guard back. Que much, drinking, feasting, and other miscalleaunous festivities.

---

If you think the ending is a bit uber with everything going right for the TG you can skip the bit with the old captain returning, or remove the possibilty that Caedan attacks the player. Either way, that's my early plan.

[Beave]

Hmm, I'm not sure if getting rid of Jorval is the best idea, since that would offset dialogue definitely in the FG, possibly in the town dialogue as well. At least replace him with some generic guy instead of the old guard, to prevent complications with Fort Windmoth, but I'd much rather just have Jorval just let off on the TG or something like that.

Also, I don't see any problem with having the militia men guard the chest. Since Jorval is the one coordinating the whole thing on the Imperial side, it would make sense for him to use his own men to achieve his ends. That way you don't have to do a bunch of enable/disable stuff with extra guards.

[Why]

Jorval should be around to be an antagonist of the player for during whatever is going to happen here in the Telvanni line, so we're definately not killing him off during the TG.

[The Greatness]

Yes, very true. I think the first bit and the idea of blackmail could be used though.

[Beave]

What would Hofmund use to blackmail Jorval, though? There was an earlier suggestion in this thread to frame Jorval for something in order to put him in conflict with the Tel Muthada lady. Or we could tie it to a part of the Helnim Gambit, which I think would be less desirable.

[Stryker]

Can this be moved to unclaimed and can I claim it?

If more quests need to be done for it, me and Why will totally work on it later.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

If you're saying you and Why think it's in a workable state; sure thing.

[Stryker]

The design looked good from what I read. Claiming and stuff. Though, my NPC claim will still be my priority.