(Obsolete) Almalexia Discussion [Formerly M3A6 thread]

[Katze]

Libraries are boring enough to explore in real life. Plus, we have way too many already.

[blackbird]

I don't think we have too many of them, but we shouldn't have a large library. We could use a part of that building for something else, like a small auditorium.
I believe a library would be good for the general feel of the city.

[Haplo]

It shouldn't be a "library" in the traditional sense of the word if we have one, but rather some place that happens to have a big pile of books on whatever subject the place's specialty is. I was thinking a big tower devoted to the history of the Dunmer but that might require a lot of new murals and stuff that we don't have.

As for empty spaces or areas in the exterior of the city, Aeven, we (the core) have a bit of a plan for that. House Indoril is supposed to be super religious, but there aren't very many outside worship places. Adding these will serve two purposes: one, it will make the Indoril seem religious, like they should be, with plenty of places to pass by, offer thanks, give prayer, etc. And two, it will also create another reason for people to be outside; central congregating spots for a common purpose are hard to come by in Morrowind so we should use them when we can. That being said, these shouldn't be overdone, and should be placed using varying ways and themes.

I also somewhat like the idea of a forum, but I feel the best place for that would be at the huge balcony/plateau outside of the Indoril Council House; the speaker can stand on the corner and be heard by the multitudes below.

[Aeven]

Finished.

As far as interiors go:

New Alma Rula Palace by Prae needs to be remerged (old one cut out). This is stuck in N/A for some reason.

New/fixed Almalexia Cathedral needs to be remerged.

Mages Guild and Fighters Guild in the Triffith Sandil Plaza. They have correct signs.

The two towers, one of which is a HUGE storage tower and the other housed the guilds, need to be remade into a luxury cultural centre and hotel, as specified by Adanorcil.

The Great House Embassies interior needs some alterations to accommodate for the new entrance (as requested by Adanorcil). Should be minor.

I was unable to find the interiors for the buildings added during A6 Detailing, so those need to be merged it too.

Link to file: [url=http://www.megaupload.com/?d=R6A2BF5L]Here[/url]

[blackbird]

A few remarks:

Triffith Sandil Plaza might be renamed.
The mages and fighters guild will need to have a new interior. BTW do we need a bank of Morrowind at Almalexia? It was located on the guilds interior.

Tatyonis castle is in my opinion at least an unhappy name; a (small) castle within a city. There is already a palace at Mournhold and the grand ascendant of House Indoril lives elsewhere.

BTW I would read every post of Adanorcil and follow his suggestions, but I won't demand it.

[Haplo]

Just out of curiosity, did you try uploading it here in a .rar file? Because then it would be like 3.5MB instead of 12.5, and thus much less likely to cause problem with php_limit_upload.

[RelinQ]

Tatyonis castle is in my opinion at least an unhappy name;

Hmm, its not exactly an appealing name.

Is there something on this list we could use a substitute?
[url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=21414[/url]
(link dug up thanks to IP)

[Aeven]

Here's a rar file, maybe that'll work.

EDIT Great Success!

[Haplo]

The wonders of uploading files within the size limit...

[Aeven]

Here's a file for an Embassy banner I made. Delete or remove it if you like, but it really helps to identify the building.

Extract into Data Files

[Tyrion]

GREEN VERTEX SHADING EVILLLLLLLLLLL

In 15,-31 you need to remove it.

btw, whats the deal with the random cave on the random island in the northern river/gate thing? 23,-25 if you don't know where I'm talking about

I also think that bridge there could use a couple lamp posts on it...

on to the city

those horrid bridges are still there (23,-26 and elsewhere)

you still need to fix the stairs beside the great house embassy

the plaza on velothril avenue is still boring as hell

[Aeven]

Try this, I fixed stuffs.

[blackbird]

btw, whats the deal with the random cave on the random island in the northern river/gate thing? 23,-25 if you don't know where I'm talking about

I also think that bridge there could use a couple lamp posts on it...

That random cave is connected with a guard tower.

Do you mean that bridge north of that small island? It has some lamp posts near it at the ends of the bridge. You could try to add lightposts on it.

[Aeven]

If you were to download my latest file, blackbird, you'd see I've dealt with the bridge.

[Tyrion]

That cave seems... silly? I mean, for a subtle, sneaky way into the city its pretty poorly hidden. Could we move the exterior entrance?

[Aeven]

Just reiterating that I've finished this. I have nothing to do with that cave, that's an interiors question.

[Haplo]

Au contraire

Could we move the exterior entrance?

Emphasis mine. I think the entrance should be moved further away to be more hidden. It's in a kind of obvious location right now, and the interior can be retooled easily to fit the new entrance location.

[Aeven]

I've finished this up now.

[Haplo]

Moved to Review.

[RelinQ]

Just wanted to point out two errors with the 'exterior' area of Mournhold, that have been here a few odd years:

Duplicate Gates of Symmachus
[You can see a second door bleeding through]
[url=http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/Relinquished_kaos/GatesofSymmachus.jpg][img]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/Relinquished_kaos/th_GatesofSymmachus.jpg[/img][/url]

Slight shift in Temple Courtyard Area.
[could look strange from aerial or map view]
[url=http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/Relinquished_kaos/mournholdshift.jpg][img]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y286/Relinquished_kaos/th_mournholdshift.jpg[/img][/url]

[Thrignar Fraxix]

STOP ACTING LIKE A REVIEWER. YOU ARE NOT A REVIEWER.

[Aeven]

As discussed with Haplo, I've done some more fixing, detailing work.

(Remember all interior stuff needing doing hasn't been done.)

[Haplo]

This claim is now ready for NPCing/Dialogue. I believe TheGreatness planned to work on this once Aeven finished it? Whoever ends up claiming this will work from the updated file in the first post.

This claim is NOT high priority. Antediluvian Secrets 2.0 and Sacred East 1.0 are BOTH higher priority.

There remain several interiors that have yet to be merged to Almalexia. It will be the NPCer's responsibility to merge these interiors once they are approved.

[Aeven]

A note to the NPCer as to which interiors in this file are to be replaced; Bank of Tamriel/Guilds tower, the same-shaped tower next to this, the Embassies building (this needs adjustment mostly), Alma Rula palace (which IS done but permanently locked in Interiors N/A!!!) and the Indoril council house.

Other interiors made include a house in the manor district, and the theatre in Velothril Avenue.

All other missing ints are being made.


IIRC the districts need renaming, or at least some of them do.

[The Greatness]

This claim is now ready for NPCing/Dialogue. I believe TheGreatness planned to work on this once Aeven finished it? Whoever ends up claiming this will work from the updated file in the first post.

I was considering working on it since I've always wanted to do an NPC claim and they don't hang around for long. However, I heard you say you wanted someone with good experience to do this, which certainly sounded fair enough to me! Are you saying it would be alright to work on this? I don't quite understand.

[Why]

Just my two cents, but I think it is worth considering splitting this claim into the actual 23-or-so cells that make up the capital and the other parts of A6. I do not know exactly how many interiors there are in Almalexia but a rough estimate places the amount of NPCs needed in the city alone well over 200. Probably over 300, even 400 would not surprise me, counting guards.

Honestly, with all due respect I would advise against Greatness claiming this in the current state. Heck, I wouldn't even claim it myself if I had the time. Even when split this claim is a Leviathan. I think the best way to proceed would be to have Adan or BC create the 10-or-so most important NPCs and write some claim-wide dialogue topics (names of districts, local area, local economy etc) and then split the claim district by district.

edit: of course, as always, if I'm not making sense please ignore me. If it is decided that this claim is not to be split, Greatness might as well have a shot at it if he posts frequent WIPs.

[Haplo]

It's far too much trouble to be splitting the claim up, especially district by district. However, while claimed, Greatness could work on Othrensis and other non-Almalexia areas of this claim, and once that's finished we can see how to approach Almalexia itself. It will also give us more time to wrap up things like the next two releases.

Of course, it's also an option to trade off the claim to other people like you mentioned; have one person make the councilors and nobles, for example, have one person make the guards, have one person make the merchants/travel folks, et cetera.

Greatness, feel free to claim this, but let us know what your plans are, and post WIPs more often than once a month if yo please. I would suggest doing Othrensis and other areas first. It will help get you accustomed to the few differences between NPC claims and quest claims. Also know that any map 1 or map 2 quest claims in questing take priority over this.

[Why]

Sounds alright to me.

Greatness, if I came across as demeaning I apologize, that was never my intention, I was merely expressing my concern over the enormity of this claim. I'm sure you'll be more than capable of doing the non-Almalexia stuff and in the process gain enough practice to move on to the actual capital when the time comes. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

[Why]

Just a thought, instead of actually splitting the file this could be converted to an .esm when the time to NPC the city comes. Then multiple people should be able to work on it simultaneously in different dependant .esps, allowing us to split the workload into whatever sections (districts, quadrants, factions) we want. I don't think merging the files back together should be hard, but I'm not our resident expert on that matter.

As I said, just a suggestion for when the time comes.

[The Greatness]

Claiming!

Da plan:

1- The best place to start would be with pathgridding I reckon. Pathgrid every exterior cell one by one. For the sake of completeness this will probably include Almalexia, unless my brain has started to dribble out my ears by then.

2- Next, the wilderness will be gently sprinkled with an assortment of levelled creatures and bandits, and maybe the odd wilderness NPC for misc quests.

3- As suggested, I will focus on the wilderness and Othrensis first. I will go through the interior cells, pathgridding then adding NPCs to each.

4- Dialogue for Othrensis will need to be done here, along with misc quests probably.

5- Almalexia. I'm not even sure if I'm ready to go this far. I'll have to have a good think about it when Othrensis and the wilderness is done, and of course see what you guys have to say. However, I would begin by setting up the city-wide dialogue. Each district will have a topic, as will Almalexia and 'Mournhold' topics will be added, along with all the usual fluff topics.

6- Next I would pathgrid, add NPCs, ownershiping etc toeach interior cell in turn. I would probably set up some unique dialogue at this stage. Even with such a large city I think unique dialogue is very important, even if it is nothing more than a greeting here and there. However, I hope to flesh out a number of NPCs with different backgrounds, greetings, trades etc.

9- I think probably the best way to organise such a large claim would be to place an NPC in each house in a way that makes sense, and then move some outside to make sure each has a home. That would keep things nice and organised. So at this stage I would start moving NPCs outside to make the place look alive. Also, guards will be added as usual. I though to keep the place alive it might be nice to give a few NPCs scripts so they walk from one point to another. With such a large city it would look rather odd if everyone was so stationary, even if that's what Beth did.

10- Misc quests! Fun fun fun. There'll be a lot of these. A lot. If I haven't already come crawling, begging for mercy, some help here would almost certainly be needed. Or at least, here it's most possible.

11- A community huge sigh of relief is breathed. I doubt I will get here without handing it over to someone with more experience or losing my sanity, but anyway, there is the plan I would use for this monumental claim. I hope to at least get the wilderness and Othrensis done, and then it can be decided what to do with Almalexia herself.

A note on my quest claim:

I hope to finish the Helnim misc quests sooner rather than later. With this claimed they will probably make for light relief from relentless pathgridding.

-------------

I'll probably have more details on what lore angles I want to take and stuff when the wilderness and Othrensis is done. There's my initial plan of what order I want to tackle things in. I'll need to have another think when I've done that, but I have had a couple of good reads of this thread and a good look at things Adanorcil has said (things like the richer/poorer locations of the city). I'll also need to have a look at other Indoril NPC claims to see how these guys have been portrayed (what guards wear, slaves etc).

PS Why, I completely agree with what you've said. As I've said at first I will be concentrating on the areas outside Almalexia, but I wanted to get my entire plan if I feel up to it (insane enough).

[Haplo]

Granted. That sounds good, although I doubt every cell needs to be pathgridded. Ask TF about that. Why's suggestion is doable, should it come to that.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

Why would I know anything about path gridding? Did you mean to say BC?

Haplo Edit: Freudian Slip

[Aeven]

IIRC, only roads (and obvious paths) need pathgridding.



I'd wait for Adanorcil Lore (tm) on Almalexia before doing her. Don't forget to add the ints for it!

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

On pathgrids, they are needed in all interiors and city exteriors, and in wilderness exteriors only on places where people have to walk over statics, especially bridges where if they fall off things go badly wrong.

On Almalexia, there's a couple of things regarding Mournhold 'integration' that I want to do with this file when I get a chance at some point (like making 'Mournhold' show up on the map when the player visits the Beth cells - simple but tedious to explain to a second party), that can happen later when I have time.

Also, remember when dialoguing Almalexia to include some integration of dialogue about the vanilla Mournhold stuff that would logically extend beyond the gates of the city (e.g. people should comment on the Ashstorms; Fabricant attack, etc.)

[The Greatness]

I'm going to throw this WIP up before I call it a day.

-levelled creatures have been added to all the GL and BC cells and some of the northenmost cells, along with appropriate (very few) pathgrids).
-all of Othrensis exterior has been pathgridded.
-NPCs have been added to the shack in the swamp (i3-512-ind) and the muck farm near Almalexia (i3-502 to 504-ind) with some dialogue.
-A missing persons quest has been hinted at in the farm. At the moment I intend for the guy to end up in a pub in Almalexia, sick of his boss. I've decided to solve the slightly odd farm issue by giving the impression that the boss thinks he is very good friends with his farmers, but the farmers are sick of him. This missing person wanders off to find some new work.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Hey Greatness,

I now have some time, so when you reach a suitable break-point, toss up a file and I'll quickly slot in those scripts and things and hand the file right back to ya sharpish.

(Or if you haven't done any work since the last file I can do that now)

[The Greatness]

Do your worst Crustacean man!

Yes. Not loads of work done since the last one. everything west of Almalexia (excluding dungeons) should now have monsters, the farm south west of Almalexia now has people and topics and that wierd manor has some bad guys.

EDIT: No wonder that upload took so long, that's the esp >_<. Here's the .rar file too.

[blackbird]

@ Bc: I don't get what you're trying to fix or achieve. You can see your position when you're in Mournhold. It could be that you mean something different.

I have seen some doors which are missing houses. I don't know what it's supposed to mean. Edit: It's a savegame bug and has nothing to do with TR. It's all right in the CS.
There are also a few double banners. There are like 2 banners attached on the same pole. Edit: It's a savegame bug too and has nothing to do with TR
The Greatness, when you're starting with Almalexia, do not forgot there are rickshaws. They can be used as a mean to transport around the city.
Do not forget to merge some interiors, like the indoril council, mage's guild, embassy tower and a few other.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Here's the file.

I was adding map markers, Blackbird. Everything works 100% super sexy now.



P.S. Greatness, Pecan Olro is a terrible name. And Redguards mostly don't have surnames.

[The Greatness]

Heh. Thanks for checking stuff like that. I've been trying to base my names on other ones from UESP lists, so hopefully they'll get better.Anyway, thanks for that BC, and back to work!