Infernal's Showcase [Needs Quest Review]

[Infernal]

Hello, modders at Tamriel Rebuilt!

I have only recently started modding, but I am eager to help out.

This is a quest I made. (my first quest in fact) It was inspired, by the 'falling wizard', and the scrolls of Icarian Flight. It can be initiated by picking up Tahriel's (the falling wizard's) journal AND looting his body for the scroll. You may have to start a new game to test the quest. The quest has 4 possible endings.

I have tried to show all my abilities here, incorporating forks in the dialogue, simple (and not so simple) scripts and a fairly interesting plot.

[MSam]

Hey,

Thanks for taking an interest in Tamriel Rebuilt. I had a quick run through of your mod and I have a couple of comments.

Your idea for a quest around the Icarian Scrolls is a great idea. I don't think anyone's every bothered with it. You grammar and spelling is fine, but some of your sentences lack..er..imagination?

First off, you need to consider the option that Tarhiel might survive the fall. It's possible, although I can't remember how to make this happen. It's a VERY unlikely outcome, but one you could consider since the journal entry on the book gives it straight away. Also consider how to finish the quest if you've used up all the scrolls..? Most of your problems with the mod are with cohesion and continuity, mostly about Galos Mathendis.

How do we know where to find Galos Mathendis? You've edited the diary, so it might be an idea next time to add something along the lines of "We've been working on the scroll. I've continued to work on it alone since Galos has had to return to the Telvanni Council House in Sadrith Mora - I can't wait to visit him and tell him our efforts are finally paying off!" You could alternatively add some dialogue if you got the player to report the death, giving dialogue to specific areas for people to say "I think he went to Sadrith Mora to work to some Telvanni wizard" or something. You've added variables for Telvanni people, but most of the people in your area, the vicinity, and anywhere on the west have NOTHING to do with the Telvanni. Remember too, that if you assign dialogue to an area/faction, *everyone* in the faction will have something to say on it, so ensure there is some variety on the subject or you at least give it the 'nolore' tag so it's not discussed by EVERYONE.

I gave the scroll to Galos Mathendis, although he seemed slightly suspicious.

This journal entry was a bit funny, as it is implying that Galos is suspicious you gave him the scroll. You might want to clarify that he was *acting* suspicious. Also, when he asks you to take the scroll to Aryon, and you say 'let me think about it' he says 'quick, before Aryon realises! Realises what? We have no implication that he is trying to kill Aryon.

I decided to keep the scroll. Galos Mathendis seemed very suspicious. Maybe I could find someone else who is interested.

Who? Specify that the Mages Guild might be interested in artefacts like this.

Galos Mathendis asked me to deliver the scroll of Icarian Flight to Aryon. I agreed. Galos Mathendis is trying to kill Aryon.

??? How did the player jump to this conclusion? All he says is "...but don't tell Aryon anything". Tell Aryon what? Also, why does he cry about not being able to trust us when we refuse the first time. He's a high ranking Telvanni. He's more likely to be giving snide insults and degrading us.

What? You won't help me sabotage house Telvanni? That scum.

Did you mean "You scum"?

The rest of the mod runs okay. It's a clever idea that Trebonius asks you to take it to Aryon, but you have the option of telling Gotheren. Gotheren, like most Telvanni, doesn't actually care about anyone. He would never contact the emperor to report the Mages Guild since the Telvanni have no affiliation with the empire.

This is a personal preference, but I'd say avoid having unique greetings that reward. Instead, have the greeting then click on your topic to receive the reward. Also, your quest giver should always have an opinion on the topic. When you've completed the quest, you should be able to talk to Galos and he'll say 'Thank you again for delivering the scroll' or something. When he asks you to deliver the scroll, you should be able to click on the subject again and he'll say something like 'Hurry up and deliver the scroll, %PCName!'.

He lives in Tel Vos. Oh, how I hate that bastard.
---
Bring the scroll to him. You'll find him at Tel Vos. Kill him quickly.

I did giggle at these lines. They're just too simple/detached. 'Kill him quickly' is a very strange line seeing as all you're doing is delivering a scroll. He may not even use it any-time soon, so how can he be killed quickly? Also, why can't the player just kill them anyway, without delivering the scroll?

Ok, those are all the comments I had. You've come up with an interesting and unique misc-quest which would have been a natural integration to the game. Unfortunately, your dialogue is very linear and detached, and it's not quite as sophisticated as the standard of Morrowind or Tamriel Rebuilt. Of course you can improve it easily, so that's only a minor concern. I'm not sure to what degree, but you need to add some more impressive scripting. Maybe add something like 'wait one day and get a journal entry', but I'm sure someone else will clarify what's required. You may want to just research the background of some of the quest givers/players, since there are inconsistencies with Gothren's character. Last, but probably most importantly, ensure that the characters always have something to say on the matter! Even if you insult Galos by not taking the script, still make sure he says 'get away from me, I'm not interested in talking'.

You're halfway there, and all you need is some tweaking to get a full quest. This is really impressive, and a great job for someone who only just started modding.

[Infernal]

Here's the revised version of my mod

Rewritten Tarhiel's journal
Fixed Dialogue
Added more dialogue (so the npcs always have something to say)
Tried to make the dialogue more imaginative
Added NoLore to some dialogue

First off, you need to consider the option that Tarhiel might survive the fall. It's possible, although I can't remember how to make this happen. It's a VERY unlikely outcome, but one you could consider since the journal entry on the book gives it straight away.

As far as I know you must have both the scroll and the book in your inventory to initiate the quest. And btw you can make this happen by casting a large area slowfall spell.

What? You won't help me sabotage house Telvanni? That scum.

Did you mean "You scum"?

No 'That scum refers to the Telvanni.

Anyway here's the file

[PoisonUnagi]

If it's referring to all of House Telvanni in general, then you should say 'those scum', and have a comma rather than a full stop. Even then, it's still borderline-ly correct.

[Infernal]

If it's referring to all of House Telvanni in general, then you should say 'those scum', and have a comma rather than a full stop. Even then, it's still borderline-ly correct.

Are you sure PoisonUnagi? I was planning for 'that scum' to be an informal exclamation of disgust, and hatred of the telvanni. I also think that 'that scum' sounds better than 'those scum' although the former may not be grammatically correct.

It's been 5 days so *Bump*

[The Greatness]

Yeah, 'that scum' makes no sense whatsoever, because it has to be refering to one person. 'Those scum' is much more suitable and sounds fine, I'm not sure quiet what you're talking about.

Me and MSam had a bit of a conversation about your showcase, so rest assured it is being looked at, only I told MSam I'd have a look at it and haven't had the chance.

[Infernal]

Thanks, The Greatness! I'll fix the small error and repost my showcase after school (in about 10 hours, it's morning here in Australia)

[MSam]

Hello again,

Sorry about taking so long to review. Quests take a bit longer than interiors so thanks for sticking out. =)

I didn't know about your script with needing both the book and a scroll. This is a really clever script which could be utilised for a lot of 'find these items and bring them to me' quests. If you can showcase one more complex script, I'd say that you'd fulfil the criteria for scripting. How about you make a script that ends the quest if the player uses all the Icarian Flight Scrolls?

As last time, your spelling and grammar is fine, but I still think the dialogue/journal entries are really (I'm not sure how to phrase this without sounding mean) boring. There is so much more you could do with your material. For example, you tell Trebonious you need to think it over if you want to help him. You wrote "Return when you've made up your mind". That's fine, but it's very plain. Read through some of his other dialogue. He's an idiot in authority who works mainly for this own personal gain. You could have written something like "Oh, you're not sure? Well, %PCName, return to me when you've made up your mind. I can tell you that I'll be very appreciative of your services to me. Er, and the Mages Guild, of course." Same with when you tell Galos that his friend is DEAD, to which he replies "What? That's impossible! Don't lie." That line is a total snooze. I know Telvanni are stingy and don't really have friends but if someone told me my friend was dead I'd be all like "WHAT THE HELL WHEN WHAT WHERE WHY WHO DID IT???!?!!" (don't write that though).

It's not exactly life changing material, but adding more to the dialogue is more inviting for players to actually read. I need a second opinion on this though, since it of course could just personal preference.

I'm not sure how essential this is, but I had to do it in my showcase. Make sure you utilise the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17181]Naming Conventions[/url] that Tamriel Rebuilt uses.

Telvanni = zero associating with the empire. But I guess that's okay for just a showcase.

I don't feel I can recommend you based on this showcase - mainly from the basis that the dialogue isn't really immersive enough. I like your script, but you'll need to show off a little more. So, it's pretty much the same comments as last time. Perhaps someone else could give it a look and tell me that I'm too anal on the dialogue issue.

[Infernal]

Thanks MSam!

I really appreciate your help and advice.

How about you make a script that ends the quest if the player uses all the Icarian Flight Scrolls?

I'm not sure about this as it is kind of impossible to continue the quest without the scrolls. Most of the dialogue requires you to have it in your inventory.

I'm not sure how essential this is, but I had to do it in my showcase. Make sure you utilise the Naming Conventions that Tamriel Rebuilt uses.

Aren't the naming conventions just for claims and other TR related stuff?

I'll try to make the dialogue more interesting and suitable for the characters. But, I don't know where to utilize another script. Possibly, when Galos is expelled he should kill himself with some sort of spell but I'm not sure if that would work story and lore wise.

[Infernal]

New Version:

Fixed dialogue
Added more to dialogue
Added script for Aryon to kill himself after he is expelled

[MSam]

Hi again,

I just entered the game again to test your new script. I refused to give Galos the scroll, and he told me to go away. The journal told me I could find other people who would find this interesting.

Here, you need to imply where I need to go. I didn't have any clue who to take it to - I know I need to take it to the Mages Guild, but other players wouldn't know that. You could add dialogue to the other councilors/people in the room, so they could say "I have no idea why Galos is acting that way, especially just to a regular scroll. You could ask his patron, Master Aryon in Tel Vos. Just make sure the Mages Guild don't get their hands on it. The last thing we need is that Imperial influence attempting to develop a superior magicka to us Telvanni" etc.

The other problem is, if you refuse to deliver the scroll, the topic 'scroll of Icarian Flight' is never introduced, and it's impossible to continue the quest. As you'd know, for topics to become available, they need to be included in another area of dialogue prior. Since Galos doesn't mention the subject again, the topic is never introduced so I can't even talk to the Mages Guild/Aryon/whoever about it. You could change this by him mentioning the topic in 'Tarhiel'. "We were working on a scroll of Icarian Flight. It's...look, it doesn't matter now. Please give me the scroll %PCName etc etc" and when you press it he'd be all like "I'd rather not discuss it at this stage." Then you'll be able to tell other people about it.

I'm not sure if you need naming conventions, but I had them in my showcase.

Your new script sounds fine, I just have the problem of getting to it. I'll take another look as soon as you update this problem, since I can't continue the quest another way without them. Then, I'll refer to the powers that be to see if it's an adequate standard.

[Infernal]

Thanks MSam for your patience with me

I'll fix the errors, I must've removed the topic while editing Galos' lines.

I just entered the game again to test your new script. I refused to give Galos the scroll, and he told me to go away

I think you've got the storyline all wrong. If you refuse to give galos the scroll you'll never be able to tell Aryon and therefore never be able to test out my script.

I'll repost my file as soon as I can

[MSam]

I think you've got the storyline all wrong. If you refuse to give galos the scroll you'll never be able to tell Aryon and therefore never be able to test out my script.

But if you agree to give Aryon the scroll, you can't tell him that Galos is trying to kill him...?

What do I need to do to tell Aryon that Galos is trying to kill him?

[Infernal]

Give galos the scroll, then refuse to deliver it to aryon and tell aryon.

[MSam]

I did that before, and again just then. After I refuse to deliver it, I can't tell Aryon about him. I'm guessing this has something to do with the journal index being too high and cancelling the conditions?

EDIT: I checked in the CS. The topic you've got to tell Aryon is 'kill Aryon', which you have the problem of not appearing as a dialogue option since it hasn't been properly introduced elsewhere. I'd also add an 'after effect', a dialogue of some sort where he says 'wasn't Galos a fool to think he could kill his own patron. Thank you for your assistance etc etc'.

[Infernal]

Yet another new version:

Fixed dialogue topic appearance
Fixed journal entry

And thanks again MSam for your help and advice!

[MSam]

Ok, I took another look. I guess you're on school holidays now?

-Straight after you give Galos the spell, the option 'scroll of Icarian Flight' pops up, and if you select it, he asks 'are you up for the task'. At this point he hasn't asked the player to perform a task.

-'kill Aryon' has a minor typo, 'house Telvanni'. This needs to be all capitals - proper nouns etc. The letter of expulsion isn't great quality, but you're not getting assessed on your literature so it should be ok.

-Minor text error - when you talk to him about the scroll afterwards, he tells you he's still studying it, there's no full stop.

-Galos' Death needs to be more urgent. He should be REALLY upset before he kills himself. Force a goodbye. The spell also needs to take off like 50000 health per second, be cause he needs to die quickly. I was expecting something else, because I don't think this showcases a complex script. If you executed the same thing, and made it so all the player could do was sit and watch and disabled the controls, it would be an impressive showcase. At the moment it's just a one line of script in dialogue.

-You still don't tell the player where to take the scroll after Galos tells you to piss off. If, by chance, I end up at the Mages Guild, they just say 'talk to the Archmage'. Shouldn't they sound surprised? You could have a different entry in each cell to make it more interesting, but that could be wishful thinking...

-There are some typos in Artorius' dialogue. It doesn't always seem to be grammatically correct, and you're missing some spaces every now and then. You also have the same problem where he talks about the task straight after.

-Where do I go after Atorius tells me to piss off?

Look, your showcase is developing a little each time, but it still has lots of flaws. I'm not sure if you should continue with this one as much as you could start a new one and ensure everything is perfect step by step. I'll try to get someone else to look at this.

[Infernal]

Thanks again MSam

I guess there's no point trying to fix this quest. I'll make a shorter, more interesting quest and post it at the beginning of the holidays (they begin in a week here, in nsw)

Idea: there's a forgetful, selfish high elf who tells you to find his ring. When you pick up the ring, you set off a trap and get attacked by a couple of creatures, the type determined by your level. (script!) When you bring it to the high elf he forgets all about it and thinks you stole his ring and threatens to tell the guards. If you then tell the guards, they will say that they will talk to the high elf, and you'll recieve your reward.

[Jonaman8]

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[Haplo]

Last online September 29th. He may be watching this thread, but otherwise, probably not.