n6-3-Mis

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:54 am

Claim type: OOT
Claim ID: TR_n6-3-Mis (#2384)
Faction: Misc
Claimed by: Gnober
Status: Approved (Progress: 100%)
Files: TR_n6-3-Mis_Gnober_6.7z

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Tree statics for Othreleth woods.
FCG thread: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=286134#286134

Atmospheric:
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/876/trshroomforest.jpg

Trees:
Thin:
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Vahiku/TamrielRebuilt/mushroomonecolor.jpg
Large and bulky (also see atmospheric art):
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Vahiku/TamrielRebuilt/mushroomtwocolor.jpg
Medium size:
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Vahiku/TamrielRebuilt/mushroom3.jpg

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:58 pm

I thought about having a go with this claim... It shouldn't be too hard, it's only a few objects, a lot smaller than the ash swamp.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:04 pm

granting, I look forward to seeing what you make

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:50 am

This is what I have made so far:
[url=http://img186.imageshack.us/i/othrelethwoodstallmushr.jpg/][img]http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/4391/othrelethwoodstallmushr.th.jpg[/img][/url]

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:43 pm

It doesn't look bad, but the 'foliage' color is too orange IMO.

BTW: Do we know how high those mushroom trees should be or not?

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:48 pm

There's a little stick man next to the concept for reference. For that one, it's about 2-3x larger than a man.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:59 pm

I wondered why the tilted exclamtion mark was there.

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:24 pm

A little update. Changed the texture a bit, as blackbird suggested.
[url=http://img837.imageshack.us/i/othrelethwoods.jpg/][img]http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/6811/othrelethwoods.th.jpg[/img][/url]
(This is not the real scale)

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:06 am

[url=http://img42.imageshack.us/i/othrelethwoodsmedmush.jpg/][img]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1571/othrelethwoodsmedmush.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The set is basically finished now, but I'll leave it at 90% for some days, if people suggest changes based on the screenshots...

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 9:31 am

I took some in-game shots of the mushrooms for convenience:

http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/9897526/1/Othreleth%20Woods%20Statics?h=507a79

I like the models, but I get the feeling that it might be quite noticeable if they're repeated a lot over a whole region. Would it be much trouble to make a variation on each one (tweaked lobes, different leg positions for the branched one, etc)? I think AI has 6 or so trees in its set, so that's a good precedent to follow.

This is just talking from my exteriorer's perspective, modelers and concept artists will probably have their own perspectives on these models.

Why · Post by **Why** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:53 am

I'm a bit worried about the very sudden and straight transition from stem to petals. Maybe some more shading would look good here, as well as making the transition a bit more irregular. And I have to echo what Cat said. Also I don't know a lot about modelling but it seems to me some parts could use a little more triangles, like the petals and branched stems of the large tree, and the stem of the medium-sized one. I'd suggest waiting for a modeller's opinion on the matter before acting on my gut feeling though.

Don't take this minor criticism too hard, these already are among the best large static models made for TR in a long time! Great job!

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:34 am

Yes I agree, some variations would probably be good, it shouldn't be too hard. I'll wait until these models are approved, though.

I have also got mixed feelings about the transition from stem to petals, I'm not quite sure how to do it more seamless, but I'll try to figure something out.

I don't know about the amount of triangles on the big mushroom, it has already got quite an amount, due to the number of petals and stems, which all require a certain amount of smoothness. I'm not sure how much triangles such a big object is allowed to have. It has got about 1600 triangles at the moment.

I'm surprised how good the models look in the screenshots, thank you for posting them, Catharsis.

Why · Post by **Why** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:17 pm

Gnober wrote:I don't know about the amount of triangles on the big mushroom, it has already got quite an amount, due to the number of petals and stems, which all require a certain amount of smoothness. I'm not sure how much triangles such a big object is allowed to have. It has got about 1600 triangles at the moment.

Which is why you shouldn't listen to me too much

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:05 pm

Very nice work Gnober. This is starting to look very good.

I agree about the transition thing. It is important that these trees look perfect, since they are meant to be the basic eye-catcher of the forest.

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:11 am

I have tweaked the shrooms slightly for a better transition between stem and petals.
[url]http://www.dropbox.com/gallery/730654/1/Othreleth%20Woods?h=8f2f18[/url]

The download have been updated accordingly.

(I put progress back to 50% to make room for variations of the models)

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:47 am

That does look better, though I think I would have do it the other way around. (To make the bottom of the cap brown instead of the stem orange, I mean.) Good stuff nontheless. Adan should see these.

Edit: something I noticed in the in-game screens: Is it just me or are the sizes off? The thin ones look just as tall as the big bulky ones, which in turn look smaller than they should be. What should be the medium sized trees look smallest in the screens. Did you take their size into account?

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:13 am

I like it, though I wonder if the petals don't feel too sharp. Also, perhaps they could feel a bit more glossy?

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:50 am

Is it just me or are the sizes off?

It wasn't until yesterday that I discovered from the atmospheric drawing, that the medium mushroom was a lot bigger (it didn't have a scale on the concept drawing). The tall and the big mushroom should be scaled properly, but I can always tweak them a bit. I'll change the size of the medium.

I like it, though I wonder if the petals don't feel too sharp. Also, perhaps they could feel a bit more glossy?

Yes, they are a bit sharp, I'm just afraid that smoothing them will make the number of vertices skyrocket. I don't know about glossiness, I don't think that works too well without bump mapping, but I'm not sure.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:56 am

I just mean in the sense they look a bit dried up.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:37 pm

I like how these models are progressing Gnober, nice work!

Just in realtion to Aeven's & Myzel's last comments, I think the texture is probably the right colour, but the petals look to wood-like rather than a soft spongey look.
Also I feel that, what with the trees going to be alot bigger than this, the resoultion probably needs to be alot higher on both textures.

Other than that, they're good trees, glad to have your skills around.

The Greatness · Post by **The Greatness** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:18 pm

To make them look shinyer you'd have to add gloss maps (or possible reflect maps), and that'd probably be pretty out of place with the rest of Morrowind. The only other thing I can think of with gloss maps are enchanted items ,and you know the general opinion on them.

I do like the trees though, but couldn't you add a few more vertices on the petals?

Why · Post by **Why** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:45 pm

Could someone with expertise concerning maximum allowable vertices in an exterior cell come by and give an estimate on how many vertices can be used per tree, taking into account the number of trees and vertices of other statics in such a cell? That'd be really helpful I think.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:46 pm

I didn't mean gloss in the sense of a gloss map, I just meant that they look a bit dry at the moment.

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:52 pm

I have tried messing a bit about with the textures, and I have made a little experiment for you to judge. I have changed the petal texture for a bit more "organic" look, and I have made the texture black and white to have more options when vertex painting.
[url=http://img139.imageshack.us/i/bigshroom.jpg/][img]http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4752/bigshroom.jpg[/img][/url]

A lot of people seem to think that the objects need more vertices, so something might need to be done. I think Nalin, Adanorcil or some other experienced modeler should give their thoughts about this, because I'm not quite sure about it.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:44 pm

Gnober wrote:I have tried messing a bit about with the textures, and I have made a little experiment for you to judge. I have changed the petal texture for a bit more "organic" look, and I have made the texture black and white to have more options when vertex painting.
[url=http://img139.imageshack.us/i/bigshroom.jpg/][img]http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4752/bigshroom.jpg[/img][/url]

A lot of people seem to think that the objects need more vertices, so something might need to be done. I think Nalin, Adanorcil or some other experienced modeler should give their thoughts about this, because I'm not quite sure about it.

I have a few things to say, but I don't have time right now. I'll try later this evening.

The Greatness · Post by **The Greatness** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:39 pm

Gnober wrote:I have tried messing a bit about with the textures, and I have made a little experiment for you to judge. I have changed the petal texture for a bit more "organic" look, and I have made the texture black and white to have more options when vertex painting.

[pic]

A lot of people seem to think that the objects need more vertices, so something might need to be done. I think Nalin, Adanorcil or some other experienced modeler should give their thoughts about this, because I'm not quite sure about it.

I think that one looks like it has the right amount of vertices (not that I know anything about modelling, it just looks right). I was thinking more of [url=http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1571/othrelethwoodsmedmush.jpg]this[/url] tree. You can see the point at the top.

That new version looks great though Gnober. This Othrelo woods place is gonna be fun...

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:30 pm

Gnober, you wouldn't happen to be around IRC some time would you? It would a couple of things easier to explain than in a rigid forum post.

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:13 pm

Alright... I have just installed it for the purpose... I'll try to be on most of the time, so just write if you see me... I hope it's not too bad...

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:27 pm

I have worked a bit on the models... I have added some vertices to the medium mushroom (which I think have done wonders) and I tried making the transition on the leaves, which I think works rather well.

[url=http://img826.imageshack.us/i/tallmush.jpg/][img]http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/2937/tallmush.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img153.imageshack.us/i/medmush.jpg/][img]http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6263/medmush.th.jpg[/img][/url][url=http://img829.imageshack.us/i/bigmush.jpg/][img]http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/9163/bigmush.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I updated the models and textures for download

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:43 pm

I can't wait to place these stuff around, looking great!

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:16 pm

Thank you, I can't wait to see them as part of the landscape

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:10 pm

Wow, the transitions look absolutely perfect now. Great work!

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:05 pm

Alright, thats great... I'll begin working on some variations, now that you seem to be satisfied with the models...

I thought about an idea for the big mushroom. Make the petals and the big "ball" it is attached to one object, and make the "legs"/stems individual objects. This way the mushroom can be customized to fit the environment the exterior designer is working on and the object won't seem repeated...

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:56 pm

Hey these are looking great Gnober.

I like how you have the colours transitioning through yellows/oranges. It's kind of like the orange ones are getting older and starting to die or something.

You could almost make a redish one too, (or the oppisite way with a yellowish-green) and have almost like autumn colours, which in an exterior with dark ground textures would really add some wicked contrast.

Don't mind me, just throwing some ideas and visualisations around.

Big Mushroom:
I do like the Idea about adding legs to the big mushroom, maybe you could have a few variations with legs and one without.

Can't wait to use these!

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:14 pm

I don't know about the color variation, it could be interesting, but I guess it would have to be approved by the concept artist... I think it would look good to walk around in a mushroom forest with all kinds of color...

Why · Post by **Why** » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:00 pm

I don't think color variations should be too wild, if we have any. In particular I think it is a bad idea to have a special model for a near-death shroom, one, because vanilla doesn't have models for that either and two, if we have a near-death model and say, four regular models (which is a really generous amount), and they are placed evenly, we imply one in five big trees is dying which kinda sounds like a tree-massacre to me. Now, one could argue the models shouldn't be used in approximately the same amounts, but that'd mean we spent time making a model we don't end up using enough which means a modeller's time would have been better spent elsewhere.

Oh, and great work Gnober!

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:51 am

Color variation is fine, but definitely no extreme differences. We want a coherent color palet.

Gnober · Post by **Gnober** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:02 pm

[url=http://img513.imageshack.us/i/bigmushrooms.jpg/][img]http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5738/bigmushrooms.th.jpg[/img][/url]
I have made two versions of the big mushroom. One with "legs" (to the left) and one without, where the exterior artist has to add the "legs" manually. I have made 8 different "leg" models (all of them are used on the model to the right).

[url=http://img338.imageshack.us/i/mediummushrooms.jpg/][img]http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/824/mediummushrooms.th.jpg[/img][/url]
The three different kinds of medium mushrooms I have made.

[url=http://img185.imageshack.us/i/tallmushrooms.jpg/][img]http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8020/tallmushrooms.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The three different kinds of tall mushrooms I have made.

I don't know whether I need to make more variations, there aren't many possibilities when the stems don't have branches or anything...

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:53 pm

Disregard me if I am alone in thinking this, but I think it would look even better if the petals (or whatever the equivalent mushroom term is) stuck out a little further around the trunk. As it stands, I am not sure those trees are creating much shade at all. Since I am not involved with either CA or models though, I may be asking for something that isn't desired. In that case like I said at the start, disregard me.

I do want to say though, those things look rather sweet.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:23 pm

Nice work Gnober.

I don't think we've aimed at dense canopies, but I suppose it could be nice to add another variation of each with wider petals.
Could you also post a screenshot with all the tree types (and a handy argonian) next to each other, to get an idea of the scale?