[Morrowind] Public Feedback

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:52 am

Word... that must be a new thing, I don't remember being able to post without being logged in. That was me

^

Aiwyn the Breton · Post by **Aiwyn the Breton** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:01 am

ah, ok. Nevermind then.

/me has learned another Lore bit today and retires studying

BTW, (returning to the "feedback" topic) playing the awesome map 1 I want to help, but there are places here where somebody who wants to help the project can go and see what's actually needed (i/e models needed, textures needed, c.art needed) for TES3 part or am I looking in the wrong places? I can find just hammerfell threads and all Morrowind needing seems old and already solved/locked :\

Chin Music · Post by **Chin Music** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:14 pm

I was simply under the assumption that Ordinators were the protectors and crusaders of the Temple, merely an extension of the Temple's will. Even if they are independent, the Ordinators exist as orders only to carry out the will of Almsivi, and administer justice in their name. Thus, their relationship with the Temple is almost one of direct heirarchy, as the Temple are the voice of Almsivi.

So while theoretically, yes, the Ordinators could ignore or defy a direct command from the Temple, it would almost never happen. An example is when you are asked to help bring the Ordinators under control by Duke Vedam Dren. The quest demonstrates that the Ordinators have influence over Temple policies, are considered a necessity by the Temple and operate independently of the Temple priesthood. However, it also shows that this is only so because the Temple allows it, and that the Ordinators only have as much influence as the Temple allows them. Despite how strong the Ordinators are, the Temple can bring them in line with a word.

I suppose the simplest way to put it all is that yes, the Ordinators do answer to the Temple, but also act independently of them and have the tendency to be a bit fanatical. The Ordinator chain of command goes: Tribunal > Temple > Alma Rula > Orders of Ordinators.

And yes, they're obviously far more likely to crop up in Indoril towns due to the connection to House Indoril, but they would be there only to represent the Temple (As the Ordinators are used as more than just guards). The guards actually acting as officers of the law, patrolling the streets, guarding shopkeepers/nobles would be the household guards of House Indoril. The Ordinators would only have this duty in the area of the city they occupied (the Temple). It fits that the only cities that are guarded entirely by Ordinators are holy ones under direct control of the Temple.

Sorry if that was a bit long-winded and unnecessary. I often like to put my thoughts into words so that I have a better frame of reference and structure which allows me understand the ideas better. Basically it's to stop me from being confused. Hey, I could probably write a book for TR on this.

Edit: Just wondering for the book... what exactly IS the Alma Rula? Is it a council of Ordinator leaders? Esteemed Temple representatives? A single revered person? "Lives of the Saints" mentions that St. Llothis was the "best-loved Alma Rula of the Tribunal Temple".

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 2:30 pm

Turelio, you can post without being logged in the "public beta testing" forum so that people can do bug reports without having to create an account. Even if it's fast and free to create one, it's still a barrier that can dissuade people from bothering to post stuff where it's convenient for us; so guest posting is allowed here.

As for the Ordinators, they belong to the Temple. There are four orders of Ordinators:
- Watch Ordinators: the guards in Temple shrines and cities.
- War Ordinators: the crusaders who attack Daedric cults
- Doctrine Ordinators: non-combatant, scholars.
- Inquisition Ordinators: the Temple's internal police.

The High Ordinators of Almalexia and Mournhold, and the Ordinators in Mourning of Necrom, are elite branches of the Order of the Watch.

Her Hands are specially selected by Almalexia herself from the best among the High Ordinators.

Chin Music · Post by **Chin Music** » Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:42 pm

From what I can gather, the Alma Rula is a single, highly revered special member of the Temple. I'm not entirely sure what their position in the heirarchy of the temple is likely to be, whether they are the subjects of very powerful members such as Saryoni or even higher than that, perhaps having direct access to the Tribunal themselves.

And then I'm not sure what exactly their role in the Temple is. Do they command the entire thing, or is the "Alma Rula" tasked solely with control of the Ordinators?

I've got most of the book down, but this is one detail that seems important, but which there just isn't any information for.

Edit: I've finished the book. It took a long time of constant thinking for such a small amount of text, but I think it was worth it. I've posted it in my showcase which can be viewed here: [url]http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=258808#258808[/url] (mods feel free to remove the link/phrase if you think this is advertising a bit too much)

I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds by expanding on the topic. I did my best regarding research and execution and came up with a description of the Alma Rula and its role. Here is the passage regarding the Alma Rula:

All four of the Holy Orders are led officially by the sacred Alma Rula, a highly revered member of the faith who is tasked with being the medium between Almsivi and the Temple by communicating with the gods directly. The bridge between mortal and divine. To the Ordinators, the Alma Rula is second only to Almsivi themselves, and a command from the Alma Rula is as good as if Vivec had spoken it himself. In history, there have been very few great enough to ascend to the position of Alma Rula, the most famous being honorable St. Llothis himself. However, the Alma Rula's duties expand far beyond control of the Holy Orders, and thus his counsel is only called upon in times of extreme distress. Otherwise, the Holy Orders are self-sufficient and govern themselves with a council of the leaders of each Order.

I regularly refer to the Orders of Ordinators as the "Holy Orders" throughout the book.

Varana · Post by **Varana** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:17 pm

Congratulations on Kemel-Ze - that dungeon is simply stunning. Especially for not just creating rooms and dropping monsters into them, but for actually thinking how and what might be found there if it were for real.

While I usually can actually pronounce vanilla Dwemer names (albeit with some difficulty - yes, even Arkngthand and Nchuleft

), it seems outright impossible to speak something like "Chgkfpz".
So - may I suggest sprinkling a few vowels here and there?

Errm... correct thread, I hope.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:35 pm

"Nchuleft" is very easy to pronounce. Of course, I am also able to pronounce the "p" is "psychology" or the "k" in "knife"...

But I agree the Kemel-Ze cell names are overdoing it. Dwemer has disquieting consonant clusters, but the names are usually still within the boundaries of the reasonable, and names like "Bamz-Amschend" or "Kemel-Ze" are practically babytalk.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:15 pm

I tried to burn most of the ridiculous ones. I think most now should be largely pronouncable. Perhaps one or two escaped me. (Though, I think you are reffering to Chungkefpz - you're the one missing the vowels!

)

Varana · Post by **Varana** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:42 pm

Okay, that was a case of using outdated info - the reason for my remark was the map in Lady Nerevar's gallery (no links for guests).

I'm glad to see that the names have evolved.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:41 pm

that map is pulled back from when all the interiors were being merged, so yes, it is quite old indeed

Bedrich Acronis · Post by **Bedrich Acronis** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:15 pm

A nitpicky noob, at your service. What's with all the mononymous Dunmer?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:40 pm

I just want to say. Everyone who has worked on this mod. No matter how big or how small. THANK YOU! i am so excited ive stumbled on this. I absolutely love morrowind it is my favourite game and ive allways wanted to explore the regions that werent put into the game. I would really like to help but i really do not have the confidence to uphold lore, nor the skills to create anything. If i think of anything i can do or develop any new skills. I will definitely try and get involved. Thank you all again.

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:50 pm

You're welcome

Hope to see you registered and getting involved soon!

morrowind867 · Post by **morrowind867** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:54 am

The only problem was when I got onto the island I swam there from sadrith mora I hit the tip of the peninsula, after swimming past that It looked totally baron. I saw the same two trees used over and over again in a field.

Other than that, I thought it was pretty good (way better than anything I could have thought of).

Tealpanda · Post by **Tealpanda** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:34 am

I love the candles in the skulls in Hashucivodulnassu (Map 1). Very cool. Kind of creepy too.

Cupa Jango · Post by **Cupa Jango** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:55 am

I love map 1 and 2, but there is one thig that rally buggs me, the noises the wild silt striders and plain striders make, the way they repeat that noise really anoys me!

Night0205 · Post by **Night0205** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:59 am

I believe the creatures of Tamriel Rebuilt are in continual development. Meaning, hopefully many creatures will be improved, as well as taken out, as well as adding in new.

Redblinky1 · Post by **Redblinky1** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:08 am

So I am trying out the TR set up and I keep getting alot of unloadable textures my pc that i am using does not have interent so i have to jump drive back and forth but the bottom half of all the meshes for the hills (i swam there) are not loading and it is giving me model errors constantly. I am very new at modding morrowind and perhaps made a mistake in installation I unpacked the game directly into my morrowind so Im not sure what the problem is perhaps I need to reinstal the mods?

Redblinky · Post by **Redblinky** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:10 am

Heres an example: Model Load Error: Meshes\TR\x\TR_ex_ind_bridge04.NIF

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:13 am

You need to register the bsa, using bsareg.exe

If you installed the mod correctly, it'll be in your Morrowind folder. Nice and easy.

Redblinky · Post by **Redblinky** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:08 pm

If the register your bsa thing was towards me it says ALL BSA archives are properly registered. I think its because I use texture replacers and mesh replacers so it cant load the ones TR is trying to use.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:17 pm

You should probably check your morrowind.ini, and make sure TR_Data.bsa is registered there.

Search for the following entry:

[Archives]
Archive 0=Tribunal.bsa
Archive 1=Bloodmoon.bsa

and add:

Archive 2=TR_Data.bsa

on the next line, if it's not already there. That should fix things

Post by **arvisrend** » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:35 pm

One word: incredible.

This is not a mod, this is a third expansion pack for Morrowind, bleeding in with the atmosphere of Morrowind far better than the first two. There are bugs there and there, but no more than in an unpatched Morrowind, and I assume they will be gone one day.

The only downside is, to me, that TR sometimes tries too much to imitate Morrowind, copying the fail along with the win. Morrowind had some flawed gameplay, such as levelscaled enemies growing faster than the player (mostly daedra and, with Tribunal, centuria in the Bamz-Amschend ruins), and TR has copied these rather than fixing them. The use of skeleta with paralyze arrows is another such flaw. Besides, it seems to me that geographic information in dialogue has been deliberately held vague and sometimes erroneous because it used to be vague and sometimes erroneous in vanilla Morrowind. Finally, while I really enjoy riddles of the kind "find a particular house in a Telvanni town" (which usually requires jumping and levitation), sometimes this is done beyound any realism (would a bookseller really hide his shop from possible clients by making it accessible by levitation only?). But I'd definitely prefer a mod with such Morrowind-epigonal flaws to an immersion-breaking mod that has nothing to do with Morrowind any time!

VictorVVV · Post by **VictorVVV** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:29 pm

I don't know if this post fits here, (other threads are about in-game problems) but I have the following problem when I load a game :
Expression Error Unable to find cell id "Mournhold" in script TR_LoopScript.

I play French Steam GOTY version.

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:34 pm

Expression Error Unable to find cell id "Mournhold" in script TR_LoopScript

Alright dude. I have experienced this problem earlier with my German version of MW, and what I did is the following:

See these lines:

Code: Select all

if ( GetPCCell "Mournhold" == 1 )
	set TR_MapPos to 0
endif

Just replace Mournhold with whatever the French name for the place is where Tribunal takes place. (Gramfeste in German, whatever.)

That should work fine, just save it as a new plugin, e.g. TR_loopscriptfix.

Hope it helps!

VictorVVV · Post by **VictorVVV** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:44 pm

Scamp wrote:
Expression Error Unable to find cell id "Mournhold" in script TR_LoopScript
Alright dude. I have experienced this problem earlier with my German version of MW, and what I did is the following:

See these lines:
Code: Select all
if ( GetPCCell "Mournhold" == 1 )
	set TR_MapPos to 0
endif
Just replace Mournhold with whatever the French name for the place is where Tribunal takes place. (Gramfeste in German, whatever.)

That should work fine, just save it as a new plugin, e.g. TR_loopscriptfix.

Hope it helps!

Thanks for the fast reply, but Steam version doesn't includes TES Construction Set, so I can't mod. I tried to download it but the program gave me a lot of errors.

I've found this : http://www.mediafire.com/?ijqzzjdyz2m
Is it compatible with the most recent version of TR ?

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:46 pm

Sorry dude, somehow oversaw the fact you played the steam version

Dunno about that link, you might have to try that out...

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:46 pm

We have no way of telling whether it is or not, but seeing as we've only released one version of Antediluvian Secrets (our second release), I'd say yes, it is.

The Greatness · Post by **The Greatness** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:46 pm

I would avoid that so you can keep up with updates. What's the French name for Mounrhol (where Tribunal takes place)? If you can tell us that I can make a mod for you.

EDIT: Ninja'd twice? That has to be a record. Up to you if you want to get that I guess. It'll be fine now but it will become outdated next release.

VictorVVV · Post by **VictorVVV** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:56 pm

The Greatness wrote:I would avoid that so you can keep up with updates. What's the French name for Mounrhol (where Tribunal takes place)? If you can tell us that I can make a mod for you.

EDIT: Ninja'd twice? That has to be a record. Up to you if you want to get that I guess. It'll be fine now but it will become outdated next release.

The French name is "Longsanglot".

I managed to load my game with Tr_map1 and TR_Data (downloaded from the link), but I got the following warnings :

Code: Select all

Could not find sound 'WindBag' in load for region 'Boethian Mountains Region'.
Could not find sound 'WindBag' in load for region 'Sea of Ghosts Region'.
Missing object "Ex_MH_sewer_trapdoor_01" for reference during cell "TR Testing Cell" load.
Script variable "active" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Script variable "active" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Script variable "active" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Script variable "active" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Script variable "active" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Script variable "active" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Script variable "active" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Class "Shaman" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Class "Gardener" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Class "Gardener" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Class "Gardener" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Telvanni Isles Region" not found for dialogue type Greeting
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Telvanni Isles Region" not found for dialogue type Greeting
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Telvanni Isles Region" not found for dialogue type Greeting
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Boethian Mountains Region" not found for dialogue type Greeting
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Boethian Mountains Region" not found for dialogue type Greeting
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Boethian Mountains Region" not found for dialogue type Greeting
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Telvanni Isles Region" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Telvanni Isles Region" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Boethian Mountains Region" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Boethian Mountains Region" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Telvanni Isles Region" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Cell "Boethian Mountains Region" not found for dialogue type Topic
Info "EMPTY"
Expression Error Unable to find dialogue topic/journal "1000-drake pledge" in script TR_TestTopicsScript1.
Expression Error Unable to find dialogue topic/journal "Saint Delyn" in script TR_TestTopicsScript2.
Expression Error Unable to find dialogue topic/journal "illusion potions" in script TR_TestTopicsScript3.
Expression Error Unable to find dialogue topic/journal "Stomach Rot" in script TR_m1_TestTopicsScript.
Texture "Textures\_land_default.tga" count 3.
Texture "Textures\Tx_MA_lavaflow.tga" count 3.
Texture "Textures\menu_thick_border_bottom_right_corner.dds" count 2.

Thanks for your fast replies.

EDIT (added Map_TR2) :
new warnings :
Current file "TR_Map2.esm"
Cell "Arrow, Cabin"
Object reference "in_de_ship_cabindoor"
missing in master file.

I had the following alert while swimming towards east:
Creature "TR_cr_ornada00000000" has no animation groups.
Morrowind will crash!
I quit.

EDIT2 : I try to reinstall Morrowind because I didn't have all those warnings the first time I tried Tamriel_Rebuilt. I also had firemoth and morrowind code patch mods. Should I reinstall them and in which order ?

EDIT3 : I still have warnings, but I've put my feet on a new landmass ! I will explore it the best I can.

EDIT4 : http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=mods.detail&id=5133

FYI: I was getting errors when loading Morrowind, specifically with a missing 'windbag' sound in several regions, a missing trapdoor in the TR testing cell, and missing dialogue called 'active' 'shaman' and 'gardener.' After many hours of trouble I discovered there were extra copies of both TR_Data and TR_Map1 in my Morrowind folder in addition to my Data folder. This was the the culprit behind my endless trouble! I moved them to the Data folder, overwriting the files that I knew were already there ( just to be sure ). After this I could Morrowind without any mishap. Perhaps this will help those who still get errors even after they registered the TR_Data.bsa.

I don't have extra copies and I have registered TR_Data manually.

VictorVVV · Post by **VictorVVV** » Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:31 pm

I used mwedit (http://mwedit.sourceforge.net/) to change the "TR_LoopScript" script. It created a small .esp file (3ko, see below) and it works now with the original files. Maybe will I succeed to remove the other warnings :

Code: Select all

Object reference "in_de_ship_cabindoor"
missing in master file.

Current file "TR_Map2.esm"
Cell "Arrow, Cabin"

I thought "Arrow, Cabin" had to be renamed in "FlÃƒÂ¨che des Mers, cabine", but mwedit refuses to change ID. (It must be because of the coma ",".) Can I simply delete it ? Why is there a reference to this door (on Dagon Fel's ship) in Map2 ?

Code: Select all

Expression Error Unable to find dialogue topic/journal "1000-drake pledge" in script TR_TestTopicsScript1.

Code: Select all

Expression Error Unable to find dialogue topic/journal "Salyn Sarethi" in script TR_TestTopicsScript2.

Code: Select all

Expression Error Unable to find dialogue topic/journal "illusion spells" in script TR_TestTopicsScript3.

Those will need translation/dialogue making. (Morrowind only shows one error per file, so this will need work.)

Code: Select all

Texture "Textures\Tx_GL_rock_01.tga" count 3.
Texture "Textures\_land_default.tga" count 3.
Texture "Textures\menu_thick_border_bottom_right_corner.dds" count 2.

These look like standard warnings.

PS : Is this thread right for this talk ?

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:59 pm

The Dagon Fel reference is likely the sign of a dirty mod. As for your other inquiry, this thread is the place for feedback, yes. General error reports should go in their respective threads in this same forum, and general help requests should go in the Help forum.

Ironic · Post by **Ironic** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:36 pm

Well, at this rate bethdesda will finish the race for all of tamriel and Tamriel Rebuilt will be skunked by bethdesda.
First Beth releases morrowind. Sure they forgot the mainland as it was done by hand. Then they release cyrodiil (Oblivion). They generated the land from nothing into trees, dirt, hills and then all they had to do was shape it and regen. Probably the quickest part of developing Oblivion. The majority of time taken went into voice acting, scripting and placing villages towns, the IC and other buildings, & dungeons, retexturing/shaping to fit in these places. Then NPC creation, more scripting and then playtesting/fixing unseen troubles. Now theyre on Skyrim and probably have been since finishing Oblivion. At this rate I am more interested in the 'next ES game' over tamriel rebuilt. By the time TR finishes, the morrowind engine wont work on my system (it currently doesnt work because my system is too fast for it) and Bethdesda will probably beat TR to the finish line. I think TR's name should change to MR or to MMV (Mainland Morrowind Visited or something along those lines. Forget Tamriel. You won't finish it before Bethsoft does.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:12 pm

We haven't been intending to make the whole of Tamriel for many years now, only Morrowind, to the best of our abilities.

Of course Bethesda has a much higher work rate than us, what with their making games professionally, rather than for free and in their spare time.

It's not like we have to worry about our creations being retconned by Bethesda at least, the province was destroyed in the book, and TR concerns itself with Morrowind as it was in the third era events of the game.

Ironic · Post by **Ironic** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:44 pm

On the book: Morrowind was destroyed in the eyes & point of view of Greg Keyes.

Elsewise: The name of this website implies that you are rebuilding Tamriel. Why not rename to Morrowind Rebuilt?
Retroactive continuity: Was committed by Greg Keyes, not Bethdesda softworks. I dont take the book for cannon for that very reason. Until Bethdesda Softworks makes it official (Announcs Morrowind as destroyed in a sequel game or online)I consider it chicken feed)

Edited - removed double post - Nemon

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:55 pm

Because TR has also released a mod for Oblivion and may in the future continue to work on other Bethsada games.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:31 pm

Alex25: There are no such plans, so the emphasis is very much on "may". I personally don't see any other large projects happening.

Ironic: Cath's point was that Bethsoft is not going to release -another- TES: Morrowind. So our work is not in danger of becoming obsolete, no matter how long it takes. Even if our public will become smaller due to the possibility of unsupported CPU's and video cards, I don't think that should concern us much. We're doing this mostly for our own enjoyment and people will always find a way to play it if they really want to.

Our name won't change, despite the confusion it may cause, because it is a well known one in the community. Changing it would cause just as much if not more confusion.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:59 pm

Ironic wrote:On the book: Morrowind was destroyed in the eyes & point of view of Greg Keyes.

Elsewise: The name of this website implies that you are rebuilding Tamriel. Why not rename to Morrowind Rebuilt?
Retroactive continuity: Was committed by Greg Keyes, not Bethdesda softworks. I dont take the book for cannon for that very reason. Until Bethdesda Softworks makes it official (Announcs Morrowind as destroyed in a sequel game or online)I consider it chicken feed)

Edited - removed double post - Nemon

What was to happen to Morrowind was known before Keyes was ever contacted. He didn't have anything to do with it.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:21 pm

Until Bethdesda Softworks makes it official

Bethesda has stated that the book is canon.

Why the hell would they pay a guy to write a fanfic?!

Post by **arvisrend** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:12 pm

Then again, they paid some guys to code Radiant AI...

Tamriel Rebuilt

[Morrowind] Public Feedback

Kemel-Ze

Re: [Morrowind] Public Feedback

Notice the irony?

See the Irony?

Re: See the Irony?