Showcase Leon (Interior)

Nanu · Post by **Nanu** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:58 pm

There is currently no one occupying the Head of Sound and Music position. It simply isn't a need, so when the last mod to fill it left it was not replaced. That's not to say that you can't get accepted based on your submission, though. I'm just not the person to review it.

The guar man · Post by **The guar man** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:10 am

Just on smaller terms...I liked your piece of music...I do not claim to know anything about classical music...but it does sound nice as a background theme.

MSam · Post by **MSam** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:59 am

Hello and welcome to the forums.

I'm a musician and I've composed for some theatrical shows, but I haven't done any sound on TR, so don't take me as the head honcho.

We do have a set of Tamriel Rebuilt custom music that was released alongside the main project, so I assume there is room for a composer.

A first impression on the music is that it's passable and mellow, which is perfect for exploration music. But the quality of the instrument sounds are not so great (they're very clearly MIDI soundcard samples or the equivalent) and in that case it would sound very out of place between the high quality samples in the original soundtrack. I loathe MIDI sounds, but the harp which you introduce at 1:10 is charming and fits right into atmosphere of Morrowind. With the appropriate mixing and fusion with other instruments I reckon you could be in with a winner.

What program are you using to compose? If using Sibelius, could you export Audio rather than the MIDI? Could you upload your song in a MIDI?

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:05 pm

I think what MSam means is that it's lacking the natural organic flow of notes that instruments such as violins, flutes, cellos and so on creates when played in real life. Small variations such as the varying speed of which a violin bow glides, air flow through a flute and so on is hard to recreate with software programs. Those details aren't lost when uploaded to youtube, so uploading a file here shouldn't be necessary.

daedriclord · Post by **daedriclord** » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:23 pm

I agree with MSam, music sounds completely midi-like, you should improve your instruments, try searching for VST-plugins in google, I think you can find vst-plugins for many musical instruments: strings, flutes, harps etc.

MSam · Post by **MSam** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:11 am

I don't know why you think this music is 100% MIDI ?

Sorry if it comes across as I'm attacking you, that's not my intent. The music sounds like that to me because I can clearly tell the difference between what a real instrument sounds like, and what a MIDI sounds like. My software has a similar problem, so I usually try to mix it with another program (such as Audacity) to remove the MIDI sound. I think we can do that with your music.

Those details aren't lost when uploaded to youtube, so uploading a file here shouldn't be necessary.

Well, if Leon uploads a MIDI file, I can pop it in Sibelius and produce a more 'realistic' tone using Kontakt Player - it will sound marginally better I think, and even then we could mix the strings by adding extra reverb and mixing with other effects so it sounds less alien. If it's overlapped with the better sounding instruments (like that lovely harp) it may be salvageable.

Believe it or not, the instruments used in Morrowind are actually synthesised, but with incredibly professional and innovative sound samples combined with excellent mixing.

daedriclord · Post by **daedriclord** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:35 am

try this vst plugin in sonar, its name is Wahnsyn Authentic Strings

http://www.wupload.com/file/1664427/1_WSAS-10.rar

or try downloading it here

http://depositfiles.com/files/ecz8pl1xm

MrBirbis · Post by **MrBirbis** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:35 pm

my ears hears: yess!

Short, but good - I like it.

Regards

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:43 pm

Quite cool. But so sad

Beave · Post by **Beave** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:36 pm

I have just a few humble suggestions about the composition.

There are a lot of points in the music where a solo ends right before the whole ensemble reenters, so you have this short silence. Maybe this is just personal taste, but I think it would make more sense to complete those phrases, perhaps having the given part play all the way into the next phrase. This allows for a continuous flow of sound to maintain the "background explore" feel.

Starting around 0:50, where the strings begin to play some sort of sixteenth-note run, I felt like these parts were out of time just because it was hard to follow alongside the melody. If I had the score I could probably tell better, but for the everyday listener this part would probably disrupt the musical immersion.

Aside from these two things, I really like it! I would love to see new background music for Morrowind that has quality to match the original pieces, so keep up the good work!

daedriclord · Post by **daedriclord** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:20 pm

Hi Leon,

00:10 - 00:40 the background strings are too "sharp" , it's better if they are more "blury" .

Nice work heh

MadMal073 · Post by **MadMal073** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:38 pm

Not a modder, but just want to let you know that this music sounds awesome!!

Mwgek · Post by **Mwgek** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:37 pm

Nice track! Hope someone with a sound background will review this soon because it's good.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:25 am

I'm glad I finally had a moment to sit down and listen to your music. Explore 1 is fantastic, and I'd love to include in TR's music files! I especially liked the... was it an oboe? around 1:00, and then the harp around 1:21. If possible, it would be nice to see whole pieces focusing around such individual instruments (an oboe piece, a harp piece, etc.)

wogya · Post by **wogya** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:15 am

Hi Leon,

I was a music modder, wrote a few pieces a few years ago, but have been too busy with RL composing lately to contribute any more. Happened to check the forums for what is going on with TR and saw your thread, so I thought I could just as well give a few thoughts on your piece.

First of all, I really like the piece. You say you don't know Morrowind, but it seems that you at least have listened to the music. Your piece has a lot of similarities with the original music by Jeremy Soule, which should make it fit in nicely.

Only thing I'm not so sure about in the music itself are the brief pauses in the first string melody (after first note and at 0:16). They don't feel very natural to me, legato would be better and stick to the feel and flow of the rest of the piece. This might also be a sample issue, the cutoff of string samples often sound very odd and sudden compared to real string sections.

About the samples used, this piece certainly would benefit from better samples. You use a lot of strings and solo instruments, these are the hardest to make sound natural even with the very best sample libraries. I haven't used the software you are using and don't know the features, but if it has good midi editing features, then you probably could improve the solo lines quite a bit by adding more detail to the performance, for example small crescendos/decrescendos and subtle vibrato on long notes. The key, however, is not to overdo it, otherwise it just sounds silly. Some reverb would also do good to some of the solos (for example to create that "distant horn" feeling that would be nice in the very beginning).

The clarinet solo towards the end sounds like it's all played on one velocity and the diminuendo is made by the mixer. When it fades away, it retains the timbre of a forte clarinet, instead of changing to the much smoother tone of a clarinet playing piano. Because of this it doesn't sound like a clarinet playing diminuendo, but more like a clarinet walking of the stage and disappearing out of the concert hall. Perhaps it is intentional?

Good software and samples are indeed expensive. The most affordable good orchestral library has usually been The East West/Quantum Leap Symphonic orchestra Gold. It's worth checking out soundsonline.com every now and then because they very often have some really good special offers. At the moment there's no special price on the Symphonic Orchesta, unless you take it as part of the Complete Composers Collection, which would give you a lot more awesome stuff, but still costs a lot of money even at 75% discount. And I don't know if the software you are using now can function as host for these libraries, guess you know your software better than me. The track "battle v2" in my music thread was made with the EWQL Gold orchestra and it was the first thing I ever did with that library so it shows pretty well how it will sound out of the box, when not handled by the sample wizards who create the official demos.

wogya · Post by **wogya** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:04 pm

Oh, I thought you were using the software listed in your third post. EWQL and Cubase is pretty much what I use myself and it should not cause the problems you mention. How do you add the dynamics that then are gone? Are you exporting in realtime or using that other option that takes longer (cannot remember the name of the option now..)?

Asio drivers is a must. Have you tried asio4all (asio4all.com)? It's a free asio driver that should work with most soundcards. I have it on my laptop and it really improved playback performance in Sibelius. Without asio drivers the laptop (core i5, 6GB ram) would leave out over half of the notes in an orchestral score even with the most basic midi samples, with asio4all installed everything played back perfectly no matter how heavy samples I selected. So if you have stuff missing from your audio exports, then it might very well be a driver issue.

On my music workstation I still use an Audiophile 2496. The card is over ten years old, but it's still supported (latest 64-bit Win 7 drivers released as late as may 2011), it sounds great and it has never caused any problems in the 10 years I've used it, not with music production, nor with games. And it retails for only 77 euro.

But to be fair, I actually were on my laptop when I wrote that last post and underestimated how crappy the speakers really are... It doesn't sound at all that bad on my desktop. But still I'm surprised that it's the EWQL Gold orchestra, that usually sounds a lot warmer and more alive.

wogya · Post by **wogya** » Fri Sep 16, 2011 7:16 am

Perhaps you should check at soundsonline or cubase support forums. I'm sure there's someone there who can help you with those problems. I'm afraid I'm not really the best person, because last few years I've been only writing for live musicians and haven't even got Cubase installed at the moment. Cannot remember all the different options there.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:07 am

The two tracks on YouTube sound great, and it's obvious that you have the skill to compose tracks that fit seamlessly into the Morrowind atmosphere.

So... Member Promoted for sound and music. Nice work, Leon

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 4:09 pm

These are both unique enough from the other tracks and similar enough to fit right in with them. Brilliant work, Leon.

I'd love to hear some more explore tracks - perhaps a "dense jungle" explore track, maybe a huge "walking around the Imperial city" like track...perhaps even a "track that we could use in the non TR affiliated but has mainly TR members Province:Cyrodiil mod" track - because it wasn't that obvious already.

Sorry. I could PM him but that'd still be recruiting for other mods but worse because I'd be doing it behind your backs! this way is way better.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:58 pm

The only other jungle image/concept I have is this
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg210/scaled.php?server=210&filename=dresava.jpg&res=medium
From back in the day, gives a bit of that "dark, dangerous, swampy, out stalking argonians" feel that a blackmarsh border track would sound like.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:31 am

I see explore3 as more "Ash swamp" than "jungle" but it works either way and that's what matters I suppose.
Really really good stuff again.

Andres Indoril · Post by **Andres Indoril** » Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:13 pm

TESAME: Yes
Fits exterior: Yes
Northmarker set: Yes
Loading errors: No

Review:
- Some of the com_sack_01_chpfood5 need to be sunk a bit. The ones that are not sunk at all that is.
- Blocking off a loaddoor seems unwise, unless scripting unique references for the door itself.
- misc_de_bowl_glass_peach_01 needs to be sunk a good bit, since bowls do not stand on points like that.
- misc_de_bowl_glass_yellow_01 should probably be sunk a little bit deeper. Relatively commonly, the trim on the bowl is used to account for what the base of the bowl should be.
- TR_furn_de_p_bkend certainly look like they could do with some sinking as well.

Comments I can not find anything here that would relate this character to the Imperial Legion at all. As far as I can tell, it is a Hlaalu-Redoran mudcrab chaser. I suppose the interior itself is not too bad though.

Why · Post by **Why** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:25 pm

Someone promote Leon for interiors already, the int is thematically sound and he's obviously proficient enough at placing objects right. To be honest I always assumed he was already promoted for interiors and quite shocked when he mentioned he hadn't actually ever been promoted. D: Shame on us all!

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:58 pm

Only thing resembling a problem is that the sacks needed to bleed a bit.

Member Promoted for Interiors

Not · Post by **Not** » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:45 pm

Nice job Leon

'Bout time ^^