q2-21-Imp
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Bloodthirsty Crustacean
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Since this is approaching the deadline: I wanted to leave a note saying that I'm focusing solely on my NPC claim right now. I haven't really even started on this, since I'd been kinda sorta absent for a while.
Unless this magically gets higher in priority, I'll work on it after the NPC claim.
Unless this magically gets higher in priority, I'll work on it after the NPC claim.
Haū! Omochikaerī!
Interior Reviews: 168
Interior Reviews: 168
Hey Stryker - just posting this here to preserve the IRC stuff.
Focus on quests 1-4. The latter are quests that might be best to save for a higher rank. It'd be nice if you managed to make them but one through four are a priority since five and up might as well be locked until the player has achieved a higher rank.
For quest 3, please have the NPCs have a dialog rather than just giving the player a scroll with a transcript. Not too long, but a couple of ForceGreetings will do fine.
Focus on quests 1-4. The latter are quests that might be best to save for a higher rank. It'd be nice if you managed to make them but one through four are a priority since five and up might as well be locked until the player has achieved a higher rank.
For quest 3, please have the NPCs have a dialog rather than just giving the player a scroll with a transcript. Not too long, but a couple of ForceGreetings will do fine.
Claiming
As this would be my first quest claim I would focus on quests 2-4 and try to finish them.
After that I might drop the claim or continue...
Plans for quests 2-4 are pretty clear, maybe I would change the amount of info (of the upcoming guard sweep) one gets during each quest. It should be logical to 'investigate' into that matter.
As this would be my first quest claim I would focus on quests 2-4 and try to finish them.
After that I might drop the claim or continue...
Plans for quests 2-4 are pretty clear, maybe I would change the amount of info (of the upcoming guard sweep) one gets during each quest. It should be logical to 'investigate' into that matter.
Update quest 2 done and tested
Now for some questions about quest 3:
1) Regarding Jorval's plan, imo Jorval wouldn't need the Telvanni for a simple townwide search, he'd ask a friendly Legion commander to send him 20-30 men for a week in exchange for a jug of mazte.
However if he wanted to increase the milita's manpower, he'd need Telvanni money, and he could use the new men to surprise the TG.
So which plan sounds more plausible?
2) Shall I use existing NPCs for the midnight meeting?
Because I think I'll create two new NPCs anyway, as redundancy in case the existing ones are already dead...
3) If I use existing NPCs, do you have anyone in mind?
Now for some questions about quest 3:
1) Regarding Jorval's plan, imo Jorval wouldn't need the Telvanni for a simple townwide search, he'd ask a friendly Legion commander to send him 20-30 men for a week in exchange for a jug of mazte.
However if he wanted to increase the milita's manpower, he'd need Telvanni money, and he could use the new men to surprise the TG.
So which plan sounds more plausible?
2) Shall I use existing NPCs for the midnight meeting?
Because I think I'll create two new NPCs anyway, as redundancy in case the existing ones are already dead...
3) If I use existing NPCs, do you have anyone in mind?
Update
Quest 3 (Midnight Meeting) should be finished, I created two new NPCs as representatives.
It'd would be easy to change that, if you decide that it'd be better to use two existing NPCs as reps and then in case those are already dead the new ones are used.
I recommend that someone playtests this quest. I did not find any more errors, but it's one monster of a quest (and script) so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something.
I'll focus on quest 4 meanwhile.
Quest 3 (Midnight Meeting) should be finished, I created two new NPCs as representatives.
It'd would be easy to change that, if you decide that it'd be better to use two existing NPCs as reps and then in case those are already dead the new ones are used.
I recommend that someone playtests this quest. I did not find any more errors, but it's one monster of a quest (and script) so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed something.
I'll focus on quest 4 meanwhile.
Reclaim
I'll stick with the plan for quest 5 - Uncovering the Truth
For quest 6 - Assembling the Team I suggest a little change:
(6) Assembling the Team
After the meeting with Miremos, the player talks to the Hoff. Hoff tells the player that they need a fourth person for the heist. Valtio is gone and Hoff should stay at the HQ, so there's only one option left - a promising young thief named Mrajasi. Unfortunately Mrajasi has been expelled 'cause he gambled the loot of a job away, after the expulsion he disappeared from everyone's radar. Now the player must find him and get him back to Helnim.
The player now must ask around and finally learns that Mrajasi has moved to (e.g.) Marog. the player searches and finds Mrajasi in the tavern/a shady cellar. Ask Mrajasi to rejoin the TG, but he refuses and demands an apology from Hoff, so the player has to return to Helnim and gets a note from Hoff. When Mrajasi receives the note, he decides to return to Helnim, however in the meantime he gambled all his belongings away. Mrajasi asks the player to return his stuff from the guys he played with or else he couldn't return to Helnim.
The player now has three options
A) Talk to the guys and pay Mrajasi's debts
B) Kill the guys
C) Get the stuff (probes, picks, divine intervention potions...) from somewhere else
The player returns the stuff to Mrajasi, he thanks the player and uses his potion to teleport to Helnim. The player returns to Helnim too and gets a reward from Hoff (some probes/picks/potions/scrolls for the heist).
I think this quest is little bit more interesting than a generic jailbreak and during the heist there'll be enough sneaking/breaking-in so that can be part of the next quest.
I'll stick with the plan for quest 5 - Uncovering the Truth
For quest 6 - Assembling the Team I suggest a little change:
(6) Assembling the Team
After the meeting with Miremos, the player talks to the Hoff. Hoff tells the player that they need a fourth person for the heist. Valtio is gone and Hoff should stay at the HQ, so there's only one option left - a promising young thief named Mrajasi. Unfortunately Mrajasi has been expelled 'cause he gambled the loot of a job away, after the expulsion he disappeared from everyone's radar. Now the player must find him and get him back to Helnim.
The player now must ask around and finally learns that Mrajasi has moved to (e.g.) Marog. the player searches and finds Mrajasi in the tavern/a shady cellar. Ask Mrajasi to rejoin the TG, but he refuses and demands an apology from Hoff, so the player has to return to Helnim and gets a note from Hoff. When Mrajasi receives the note, he decides to return to Helnim, however in the meantime he gambled all his belongings away. Mrajasi asks the player to return his stuff from the guys he played with or else he couldn't return to Helnim.
The player now has three options
A) Talk to the guys and pay Mrajasi's debts
B) Kill the guys
C) Get the stuff (probes, picks, divine intervention potions...) from somewhere else
The player returns the stuff to Mrajasi, he thanks the player and uses his potion to teleport to Helnim. The player returns to Helnim too and gets a reward from Hoff (some probes/picks/potions/scrolls for the heist).
I think this quest is little bit more interesting than a generic jailbreak and during the heist there'll be enough sneaking/breaking-in so that can be part of the next quest.
Another quest finished.
Next quest would be The Fourth Thief...
Could someone please tell me whether I shall go with the original jail break story or the expelled thief version! I'd hate to start working without any decision made.
btw after actually looking up the CS I decided that the expelled thief could be the wood elf Fillim in Tel Mothrivra. He lost all his stuff to the publican and instead of killing the publican the player can gamble for the debts.
Next quest would be The Fourth Thief...
Could someone please tell me whether I shall go with the original jail break story or the expelled thief version! I'd hate to start working without any decision made.
btw after actually looking up the CS I decided that the expelled thief could be the wood elf Fillim in Tel Mothrivra. He lost all his stuff to the publican and instead of killing the publican the player can gamble for the debts.
Updated...
I made it the way I posted it earlier (return the expelled thief)
Now I have no real idea for the final quest, but I'll try to come up with something useful.
I guess it'll be a rather generic piece of thievery (2-3 patrolling guards, hard locks, trapped doors...) and after finding only Bug Musk the player has to [do something]!
If there are any ideas feel free to post them
I made it the way I posted it earlier (return the expelled thief)
Now I have no real idea for the final quest, but I'll try to come up with something useful.
I guess it'll be a rather generic piece of thievery (2-3 patrolling guards, hard locks, trapped doors...) and after finding only Bug Musk the player has to [do something]!
If there are any ideas feel free to post them
Why not have Hoff or someone try to betray them? It might add a nice twist.
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Sounds good and it would suit Fillim very well (he's already an asshole).Haplo wrote:Why not have Hoff or someone try to betray them? It might add a nice twist.
(7)The Heist
Hoff sends the player to the Militia HQ, the player enters the basement (the HQ has no basement yet, I could add like 2-3 small rooms with locked doors between, maybe also a hidden door). Sneak past 2 guards (who simply arrest the player when detected). The player finds a chest with bug musk and some evidence for Jorval's alliance with the Telvanni. When the player returns to Falkoth some other guards are fighting with Hoff - the player must kill them. Hoff thanks the player, takes the evidence but not the bug musk. Then he tells the player that Fillim must be the traitor. He sends you to Fillim's favorite hangout spots, at one of them the player finds Fillim and kills him. Return to Hoff and celebrate... not yet.
(8)Turn the Tide
Now that the Militia knows the TG hideout, they must do something against Jorval. Hoff gives the player the evidence (from the heist) and tells him to sneak into the governor's room and place the evidence in the governor's desk. When the governor finds the evidence he'll get mad at Jorval (I guess Jorval never informed the governor of his plan) and will demand that everything must be agreed in advance by him from now on. And with a governor that corrupt and incompetent the TG will have a much easier time. The player does it and returns - finished.
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Bloodthirsty Crustacean
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- Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:30 pm
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All of this sounds fine; I am very much out of the loop with this questline though.
A couple of things -
way back in quest 6, I'd cut the middleman stage where you bring an apology note from Hofmund. It just makes the player run back and forth needlessly. Cut straight to the good stuff (stealing back his gear)
Don't have Hoff completely betray the player at any point, that's too much of a 'twist' for a faction base. He can mislead the player for their own good/good of the Guild, but nothing more than that.
Fillim is not the greatest of names; if it's not too much nuisance could it be changed? What race is he?
On quest 7, don't have the player fight guards. I'd just have Hoff explain to the player that the Guild have had to chase off a scout.
What's the deal with Jorval's alliance with the Telvanni? I don't fully remember that. I would prefer perhaps some other approach; perhaps just some plan of operations that makes it clear exactly what he thinks of the governor. Otherwise the quest would run the same though.
A couple of things -
way back in quest 6, I'd cut the middleman stage where you bring an apology note from Hofmund. It just makes the player run back and forth needlessly. Cut straight to the good stuff (stealing back his gear)
Don't have Hoff completely betray the player at any point, that's too much of a 'twist' for a faction base. He can mislead the player for their own good/good of the Guild, but nothing more than that.
Fillim is not the greatest of names; if it's not too much nuisance could it be changed? What race is he?
On quest 7, don't have the player fight guards. I'd just have Hoff explain to the player that the Guild have had to chase off a scout.
What's the deal with Jorval's alliance with the Telvanni? I don't fully remember that. I would prefer perhaps some other approach; perhaps just some plan of operations that makes it clear exactly what he thinks of the governor. Otherwise the quest would run the same though.
a man builds a city
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
I think you're right.Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:way back in quest 6, I'd cut the middleman stage where you bring an apology note from Hofmund. It just makes the player run back and forth needlessly. Cut straight to the good stuff (stealing back his gear)
I intended to make Fillim betray the player (and Hoff along with them). He's just a little thug and that might also be a nice explanation why the militia is sceptic and only sends like 1 trooper to the hideout.Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:Don't have Hoff completely betray the player at any point, that's too much of a 'twist' for a faction base. He can mislead the player for their own good/good of the Guild, but nothing more than that.
He's Bosmer (and in vanilla MW there's a Bosmer named Fillin...).Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:Fillim is not the greatest of names; if it's not too much nuisance could it be changed? What race is he?
I agree. Of course it'd nice to have a "Caedan Jorval's: How I'm gonna wipe out the Tieves Guild in Helnim with the help of the Telvanni but without knowledge of the governor"-document, but that's not very credible. So this document has to reveal enough of this campagne for the governor to realize it, but not too directly.Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:What's the deal with Jorval's alliance with the Telvanni? I don't fully remember that. I would prefer perhaps some other approach; perhaps just some plan of operations that makes it clear exactly what he thinks of the governor. Otherwise the quest would run the same though.
Here are some candidates: a contract between Jorval and Sinn; a time table for the guard sweep; a letter from Sinn; an advance copy of the order for the Militia officers (I just came up with this one and really like it)...
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Bloodthirsty Crustacean
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- Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:30 pm
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All sounds good!
Fillim: the m is wrong. Don't ask me why!
If it's not too much trouble, go for ... Firamon, instead?
On the last point, subtle is better, yes. Your ideas are fine. Unless the explicit connection of Jorval with the Telvanni is important (I've forgotten most of what's going on with Map 2, I'm afraid - but he had no connection with them when I NPCd Helnim, and from my point of view it's out of character), I'd again just make it be some document that makes it clear he does not like or is trying to bypass the governor: the governor doesn't need much of a reason to throw a fit, he's clearly a fool. Giving him too much of a reason actually makes him seem clever enough that he ought to realise that wiping out the Thieves Guild is a good idea! So the more petulant he looks, the better.
... Unless of course the Telvanni connection is vital to the story! In which case don't worry.
Fillim: the m is wrong. Don't ask me why!
If it's not too much trouble, go for ... Firamon, instead?On the last point, subtle is better, yes. Your ideas are fine. Unless the explicit connection of Jorval with the Telvanni is important (I've forgotten most of what's going on with Map 2, I'm afraid - but he had no connection with them when I NPCd Helnim, and from my point of view it's out of character), I'd again just make it be some document that makes it clear he does not like or is trying to bypass the governor: the governor doesn't need much of a reason to throw a fit, he's clearly a fool. Giving him too much of a reason actually makes him seem clever enough that he ought to realise that wiping out the Thieves Guild is a good idea! So the more petulant he looks, the better.
... Unless of course the Telvanni connection is vital to the story! In which case don't worry.
a man builds a city
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Update - The Heist quest finished & tested
As BC suggested I deleted the apologizing part from The Fourth Thief.
About the Telvanni connection: while it's important for the quest line, it's not important for this specific part of it. So the governor only gets to know that Caedan is bypassing him.
I haven't changed the name Fillim (yet).
And now on to the last quest...
As BC suggested I deleted the apologizing part from The Fourth Thief.
About the Telvanni connection: while it's important for the quest line, it's not important for this specific part of it. So the governor only gets to know that Caedan is bypassing him.
I haven't changed the name Fillim (yet).
And now on to the last quest...
Updated! Final quest is done.
@Fillim...I did not change his name, because I could either:
-Change the name but not the ID (which is stupid)
-Change name & ID (which would lead to an unused copy of the original that would have to be cleaned out during merging)
-Leave him with a stupid name
And I think that realistically there must be people with stupid names (and who said that Big-Head is NO stupid name...) in Morrowind!
So unless someone really, really can't live with a stupid name, this claim is FINISHED!
@Fillim...I did not change his name, because I could either:
-Change the name but not the ID (which is stupid)
-Change name & ID (which would lead to an unused copy of the original that would have to be cleaned out during merging)
-Leave him with a stupid name
And I think that realistically there must be people with stupid names (and who said that Big-Head is NO stupid name...) in Morrowind!
So unless someone really, really can't live with a stupid name, this claim is FINISHED!
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Bloodthirsty Crustacean
- Developer Emeritus
- Posts: 3869
- Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 7:30 pm
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I'll deal with the name; the modding time I have right now is going to be going on Necrom, so I'm afraid I can't review this immediately.
But as ever with quests, basically anyone with a working copy of Morrowind can give it a trial run through to pick out obvious bugs.
But as ever with quests, basically anyone with a working copy of Morrowind can give it a trial run through to pick out obvious bugs.
a man builds a city
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
with Banks and Cathedrals
a man melts the sand so he
can see the world outside
"They destroyed Morrowind? Fiddlesticks! Now we're going to have to rebuild it again!"
Finalized version of this, now ready to be merged. Feel free to double check.
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Not another memory
...And so my bad karma gets worse
...And so my bad karma gets worse