Map 3 NPC Claim #9 [arvisrend]

theviking · Post by **theviking** » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:10 pm

Yep it does,

i fixed the problem in the religious enquiry quest. I hope my fix in the dialogue of the save a prayer quest will allow the bonewalker to assault you when he is insulted. There was a script error message when that happened and i couldn't fix that because the script was fine.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:48 am

I fixed that bit in my version already. I had forgotten to include the 'player' in "StartCombat player".

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:23 pm

This should be good enough for exteriors... anything else will be looked upon before a final release.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:10 am

This is only the beginning, but I prefer to see these fixed before I go on with the quests.

Nice dialogue, Adanorcil! Unfortunately, some things in it don't square.

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After I complete the "Save a Prayer" quest (in the diplomatical/theological way, though I doubt this matters), I can talk to Duram about "haunting" as often as I want, every time choosing whatever option I wish and obtaining a Balvel ring as reward.

10/21/2011 (20:37) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling flora_wickwheat_02 Sailen (37,-16) 309531 -128085 568 "floater"

10/21/2011 (20:38) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling Terrain_rocks_GL_03 Sailen (37,-16) 304302 -128893 962 "floater"

10/21/2011 (20:39) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling misc_de_tankard_01 Sailen Farmlands (38,-16) 316307 -125440 209 "wtf"

10/21/2011 (20:40) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling terrain_rock_gl_12 Sailen Farmlands (38,-16) 316055 -126658 120 "some grass around here might be nice? the place looks rather undetailed for TR standards"

10/21/2011 (20:41) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling terrain_rock_gl_10 Wilderness (39,-17) 327047 -131390 1052 "more of the same..."

10/21/2011 (20:41) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling Terrain_rocks_GL_01 Wilderness (39,-17) 326630 -134356 827 "these rocks do a bad job at covering a ground texture transition"

NPC TR_m3_Girynu_Rathryon, dialogue topic "stay in Sailen", typo "commision".

Same typo in his greeting behind the Hostel.

Quest TR_m3_Sa_Inquiry stage 1, typo "behin".

Maybe Girynu should have less generic topics (nolore?). He is giving away his profession by two of these topics, which doesn't seem that much reasonable due to the secrecy of his job. Also his "Veradul Delvas" topic sounds as if he was from Sailen.

Girynu talks about 4 suspects, and so does the journal, but his notes only contain information on 3.

NPC TR_m3_Idroso_Menas, dialogue topic "little advice", typo "peoples".

Girynu's notes say that Dalam Marys is a Temple member. His "Background" dialogue disagrees. In the CS he is a Temple member.

Also, the dialogue topics "Tribunal" and "Tribunal temple" yield identical replies when asked from Girynu. This is probably a more general problem than that of Girynu. I would propose changing the replies.

NPC TR_m3_Golveso_Darys doesn't sell the Indoril cuirass he claims to sell in his dialogue "special items".

MSam · Post by **MSam** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:25 am

This is only the beginning, but I prefer to see these fixed before I go on with the quests.

Since they're such small errors, and you're probably the best reviewer we have, wouldn't it be faster and way more productive if you just fix them yourself? At least the dialogue errors, isn't that what a reviewer does?

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:38 am

For that I need to be 100% sure noone else is working on that file, to prevent bad things from happening. Also, I am not sure I can solve the "Tribunal" vs. "Tribunal Temple" conflict. That ought to be done by somebody who knows what the two topics were introduced for.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:54 am

I thought we changed Girynu's name? If not, let's do that. It's awful name.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:20 am

Gerrin maybe, or does it sound too European?

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:55 am

So I have decided to test the Stranded quest before waiting for an update.

First, there is a script problem: Taking the nixtooth does not set the journal to 40. I believe this is due to the fact that the script on the nixtooth does not run as long as it still lies in the reliquary, but when it leaves the reliquary it immediately goes into the player's inventory, so when its script starts to run, it is already added to the PC and OnPCAdd does not get set to 1. If I drop the nixtooth and pick it up again, the journal updates, but this is not how things ought to be. I guess that placing the nixtooth outside of a container, or replacing the script on the tooth by an appropriate script on the reliquary, would solve the problem.

Also, the "supply package" is somewhat vague to me. It should at least say what's in there.

For some more realism, I would have Saryn not give the package directly to the player (does he have like a dozen of these packages in his pockets?) but rather a key to a crate with these packages.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:26 pm

Nice dialogue, Adanorcil! Unfortunately, some things in it don't square.

That doesn't surprise me. Thanks for the attentive testing.

Girynu talks about 4 suspects, and so does the journal, but his notes only contain information on 3.

Left-over from an old version of the quest. My bad.

Girynu's notes say that Dalam Marys is a Temple member. His "Background" dialogue disagrees. In the CS he is a Temple member.

Another left-over. The full text in Girynu's notes should read: "Layman healer of unknown schooling. Reputedly disappeared for some years. Infiltrant? Background check is required."

NPC TR_m3_Golveso_Darys doesn't sell the Indoril cuirass he claims to sell in his dialogue "special items".

I never particularly intended for this be the case since it's supposed to be kind of illegal; therefore it wouldn't show up in his regular stock. If people think it is a problem, an item can be added to his stock anyway (potentially only after the dialogue topic has been clicked) or a special dialogue option can be made to buy it outside of the regular barter system.

I thought we changed Girynu's name? If not, let's do that. It's awful name.

I doesn't bother me all that much compared to many other ones, but I'm ok if someone wants it changed.

Also, the "supply package" is somewhat vague to me. It should at least say what's in there.

For some more realism, I would have Saryn not give the package directly to the player (does he have like a dozen of these packages in his pockets?) but rather a key to a crate with these packages.

Perhaps alter the dialog slightly to say that Saryn has asked for a food parcel to be assembled and change the name of it to reflect that.

First, there is a script problem: Taking the nixtooth does not set the journal to 40. I believe this is due to the fact that the script on the nixtooth does not run as long as it still lies in the reliquary, but when it leaves the reliquary it immediately goes into the player's inventory, so when its script starts to run, it is already added to the PC and OnPCAdd does not get set to 1. If I drop the nixtooth and pick it up again, the journal updates, but this is not how things ought to be. I guess that placing the nixtooth outside of a container, or replacing the script on the tooth by an appropriate script on the reliquary, would solve the problem.

I remember tackling a similar problem at some point and I thought I had fixed this. Apparently not. I will leave this in the hands of someone more capable. Personally I feel it would be more fitting to see the thing in a reliquary, but it's not an absolute necessity.

Post by **arvisrend** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:54 am

OK, this stuff is more difficult than I thought, particularly since new bugs keep surfacing.

Can someone explain to me what script TR_m3_q_A9_GhostTombScript is supposed to do? Disable the ghosts until the quest is at stage 40? This it does. But once the quest does reach stage 40, they don't get enabled anymore and thus remain disabled, unless this is the first time the player is visiting the tomb (so they haven't been disabled yet). I doubt this was the intention.

In the attached file I have fixed all bugs in the Save-a-Prayer and Stranded quests known to me. This doesn't mean they are now bugfree, but I am pretty sure the number of issues has decreased. I also started fixing Inquisition, but did not get far. I will continue tomorrow.

I still believe that the sneak challenge in the Inquisition quest (either to steal Idroso's key or to lockpick her door) is a matter of luck. That's kinda okay - one doesn't have to be undetected, and even if she attacks you you don't have to kill her - but it conflicts with Girynu's "don't do anything yourself, just look around" policy.

Just to get this assured once again: if the player reports Idroso to Girynu, she is supposed to disappear immediately? And her daedroth too? What about Girynu? Should he return to the tavern, or disappear after some time?

Are black roses and red fireflowers supposed to be something like rare flora, or can I scatter a few more of them over the land? I am talking about the somewhat barren places I have reported (and not fixed yet).

Some "little secret" answers are incorrectly ordered, in the sense that an answer bound to "random100 >= 80" stands below some answers bound to "random100 >= 30" and some other numbers smaller than 80. This means that these other answers never get printed ingame. Is this intentional (i. e., did anybody want to remove those answers from the game), or is it a bug?

Can anyone comment on my dialogue lines below?

Duram Balvel, about "haunting", after player has solved the quest in his favor: It has come to an end. Whether or not I can pledge you the thanks of my family, you are certain to have *my* warmest thanks. I am particularly unsure about the use of asterisks for emphasis.

Duram Balvel, about "haunting", when player is secretly on the mission to kill Ladiana: Have you come back with tidings? Would the spirits listen to reason? Hurry, please.

---------------------------------------------------------

The next part is for me. It's a list of what remains to be done.

10/21/2011 (20:40) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling terrain_rock_gl_12 Sailen Farmlands (38,-16) 316055 -126658 120 "some grass around here might be nice? the place looks rather undetailed for TR standards"

10/21/2011 (20:41) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling terrain_rock_gl_10 Wilderness (39,-17) 327047 -131390 1052 "more of the same..."

(NOT THIS ESP'S PROBLEM) Also, the dialogue topics "Tribunal" and "Tribunal temple" yield identical replies when asked from Girynu. This is probably a more general problem than that of Girynu. I would propose changing the replies.

NPC TR_m3_Golveso_Darys doesn't sell the Indoril cuirass he claims to sell in his dialogue "special items".

Fix Girynu quest!

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:33 am

Use this line:

It has come to an end. Whether or not I can pledge to you the thanks of my family, you are certain to have my warmest thanks, at least.

Fire flowers shouldn't be used in this region, I don't think.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:37 pm

Per Arvis' request, I made a small adjustment to Idroso Menas' house to make Girynu's quest slightly more feasible.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:56 am

Thanks, Adanorcil.

New version, with all quests fixed, but not really tested - so new bugs can (and probably do) have appeared! If anybody else could do some playtesting for a change, I would be grateful.

I added some loot in the two hidden parts of Vaden Ancestral Tomb. Nothing extraordinary, but some 4 scrolls and an amulet of health.

I also let an Indoril Cuirass (yeah, the normal one, with the script, because a "sanded off emblem" does not fool an ordinator) be added to a chest belonging to Golveso (the pawnbroker) when the topic "special items" is clicked on. This is a new chest which I had to put outside of the level, since otherwise players might loot it beforehand (the cuirass won't be there, but looting it still can cause a bug which would keep the cuirass from being added).

I have added quest journal entries for the case when the player kills Idroso. First of all, if he kills her before taking the quest, Girynu and the daedroth are disabled so the quest cannot even be started. Second, if he kills her afterwards, he can still find the evidence and pretend that the daedroth took her (the quest then continues as it used to, because Girynu has no way of finding out that it was the player), or admit that he killed her, in which case Girynu is disappoint (see below for the dialogue). If the player talks to Girynu after killing Idroso but before finding the daedroth, Girynu is really pissed. In any case, after the quest ends, Girynu disappears on CellChange.

Scripts on the other suspects (including the 4th one) have been replaced by the normal map3 NPC script. That on Idroso was rewritten.

Dialogue added:

- Girynu, when player kills Idroso but has no proof: You killed a suspect? Without provocation? Without proof? Now I regret entrusting a task like this to a fool like you. Whatever spell beguiled me into misjudging your qualities, rest assured it will not make me resort to your "services" ever again. Goodbye, as there is nothing for us to discuss anymore. On repeated talking: I don't see how exactly failing my mission and subsequently wasting even more of my time can seem a good idea to you.

- Girynu, when player kills Idroso but finds the daedroth: The same reply as otherwise (i. e., two choices "She had summoned a daedra into her basement. It offered me a reward if I set it free." and "[Lie] I'm not sure, but it looks like one of her summonings backfired."), but this time with an additional choice: "I killed her as she spotted me breaking into her basement. What I found there proved me right: A summoned daedra bound to a ritual circle." His answer to this: No, it did not, and you are a fool to think it could. Not only have you tried to justify a crime with convenient hindsight; you have also denied the Temple any chance of interrogation. Now I might even have to scrutinize the evidence myself to ensure it is not your doing. A bad oversight on my side to confide such a serious mission to someone of your... personal qualities. Goodbye, and thanks for nothing. Then, upon repeated talking: Once again, if you believe that you have been of help, you are mistaken. Now leave me alone.

New quest stages:

I have killed Idroso Menas - an unfortunate twist in the investigation. Still I might find out what is going on in her house.

Girynu Rathryon was less than thrilled about the course of events I have caused and the failure of his mission.

Girynu Rathryon was frustrated about the death of Idroso Menas and denied any gratitude, let alone reward, for the failed mission.

I have not done any landscape design yet and possibly am not going to. Will see tomorrow whether it's worth the hassle.

EDIT: updated file, since I forgot to disable Idroso and the daedroth when the player reports them to Girynu.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:33 am

These all sound like very good additions. Carry on.

This just occurred to me: I'm not certain, but if the player sets the Daedroth free, is there currently any sort of indication to go snooping around for the reward he left behind upstairs? If not, something small along those lines should probably be added.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:45 pm

Some (unfinished since Morrowind is crashing on me fairly regularly, for some reason) error reports... sorry about the lack of betacomments format:

Typos:

Girynu typos when talking about the quest, outside in the alley:
comission should be commission
worshippers should be worshipers
"is still in hiding, here in Sailen." Add the bold word

Daedroth typos from when you are conversing with him downstairs:
"Temporarily summoned me to your world." Add the bold word
"By her enchantments, I am bound..." add the bold comma

Duram Balvel typos from when you speak with him about the ancestral tomb, and he gives you his ring:
"It's an heirloom, worthless..." add the bold letter to the word 'a'. Since heirloom is pronounced with a silent h, the beginning sound is that of a vowel. Thus, it should be preceded by "an", and not "a". And add the bold comma.

-------------------------

Now for some world errors:
In Idroso Menas' house, move her out of the way (closer to the dresser behind her), or angle the table differently. It's tough to push past her to get to that storage caddy.

Also, the chair in that corner is blocking me from going through the door in the storage caddy.

In Idroso Menas' basement, in the locked room to the left of the Daedroth, scale the chests down a bit, to .80 or something. They only have some gold or soul gems in them, so they don't need to be full-size, and it's nearly impossible to fit the player in that room with the chests at their current size.

-------------------------

That's all for now. I checked one person on the list and then went to Idroso Menas' house, got the journal entry about her being watchful, snuck down the trapdoor behind her house, spoke with the Daedroth, heard his plea, and decided not to help him. Then I returned to Girynu in the alleyway, got the reward and traveled south to the fort (in a different cell), came back, and he was gone along with the Daedroth and Idroso Menas. So that worked fine. However, I checked my journal at that point and the quest didn't show up in my all quests list.

EDIT: Also, I've moved this to Exteriors: Claimed to reflect all of arvisrend's recent (and current) work on it.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:41 pm

Fixed typos. Moved Idroso away: http://imgur.com/CmVer please tell me if this can still block the player. She has a Wander AI with distance 0, but I'm not sure whether this means she actually doesn't wander.

Chair moved & rotated. The two chests are now .85.

Thanks for letting me know that the quest didn't appear in the list. The quest name wasn't marked "Quest name". Fixed that too.

Adanorcil: "if the player sets the Daedroth free, is there currently any sort of indication to go snooping around for the reward he left behind upstairs? If not, something small along those lines should probably be added." I am not sure about this; daedric rewards are a case of "if you can't find it, you aren't worth it anyway", and this one is really obvious imho. But if you think I should add a hint, I'll do so.

Landscaping will come next, I think.
Sorry for using this forum as a backup directory :)

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:31 pm

Adanorcil: "if the player sets the Daedroth free, is there currently any sort of indication to go snooping around for the reward he left behind upstairs? If not, something small along those lines should probably be added." I am not sure about this; daedric rewards are a case of "if you can't find it, you aren't worth it anyway", and this one is really obvious imho. But if you think I should add a hint, I'll do so.

Well, my idea was more that if you enter via the trapdoor you still don't have the key to the stairway to get to her living room upstairs. You have to walk around just to discover the reward. But I agree that it's better left unsaid. Adds to the atmosphere.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:57 pm

That location should be good for Idroso. Also, it may be worth checking the rest of the quests to make sure they will show up in the quest lists.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:49 pm

Adanorcil wrote:Well, my idea was more that if you enter via the trapdoor you still don't have the key to the stairway to get to her living room upstairs. You have to walk around just to discover the reward. But I agree that it's better left unsaid. Adds to the atmosphere.

If one enters through the trapdoor, it is easier to escape through the main entry (lock 50) than back through the trapdoor (lock 80), so I assume most people will go through the main entry.

Actually, I'll make the daedroth even unlock the door for the player.

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:33 am

Good plan, because if the player can open the exterior of the trapdoor (lock 80) in the open air of the town, they will be able to open the interior (lock 80) in private even easier.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:15 am

Final version. Not cleaned! I have cleaned some of my contamination from the file, but I am hesitating to do the rest, since I am not sure what belongs into M3A9 and what does not. I am positive that somebody like Adanorcil or Nemon can finish this. Whoever does that can also remove the name of the ext cell "Necrom Lighthouse".

I have tested most paths through the quests, and there shouldn't be many issues in this file anymore. Unless somebody finds new bugs or proposes new improvements, I am done with this.

As for my two landscape remarks:

10/21/2011 (20:40) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling terrain_rock_gl_12 Sailen Farmlands (38,-16) 316055 -126658 120 "some grass around here might be nice? the place looks rather undetailed for TR standards"

10/21/2011 (20:41) Clean TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_Nemon.esp 10/21/2011 (20:28) skraeling terrain_rock_gl_10 Wilderness (39,-17) 327047 -131390 1052 "more of the same..."

I have placed some of the usual stuff (GL rocks with satellite flora and even one GL tree) in 38, -16. The place looks a little bit less barren (although at the cost of the refcount...). I didn't do anything to 39, -17. Nemon, you are probably a better judge than me about whether any changes are necessary, and if they are, you could probably do them with half of my refcount. I have not added any rare flora.

Gave two merchants specialized merchant containers. I'll open a new topic about why I'm doing this. Other than that, fixed some floaters and casperers, including a caspering house; freed half a dozen of stoneflowers from inside a rock; added giant Akulakhan statue (oh, you're still reading? good).

Added dialogue: You are coming from the right direction. Have you located the wreck? Found the relic? By the stranded pilgrim, when the player has found the nixtooth but doesn't carry it in his inventory. That's necessary because otherwise removeitem is applied to an object not in the player's inventory, which causes the weight-loss bug. Have similarly accounted for the case when the player forgets to take the supply package (this time no new dialogue was needed.)

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:41 pm

Awesome! Moved to Reviewing. I have cleaned the file and applied regions, and will check the dialogue next. Although I thought the cell names had already been dealt with.

Edit: I'm done with checking dialogue. Now to check those exterior cells and cell names.

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:10 am

Finalization initiated. Dialogue looked guuuuuud.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:22 pm

YEAH!!

I like approved stuff.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:47 pm

Haplo, can you please upload your cleaned version of my last ESP somewhere here? (The version in post #1 seems to be prehistoric.) I just noticed that when adding some GL rocks in and around Sailen Farmlands (to make the place look less barren), I completely forgot the vertex shading. Should have kept to quest fixing...

Anyway, I can fix this up but I need to know for sure that I'm working with the latest file, lest the work be in vain.

EDIT: Ah, I see. Haplo made a ninja post.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:26 pm

Ok, this should be better. Sorry for the hassle.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:34 pm

I noticed during a playthrough that once I could ask about "Sailen" (which happened in Sailen) every single NPC tells me about the topic Sailen that it's just up the road from here.

Strange much

Andres Indoril · Post by **Andres Indoril** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:35 am

All roads lead to Sailen.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:38 am

I think leaving it be for now is the most... Salien solution.

Post by **arvisrend** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:53 pm

I think I got it. This topic used to be filtered for Cell=Evos (where it makes sense), but somebody decided that Evos didn't need a cell name and so it became a common place.

Whoever fixes this might also want to fix this:

TR_Map_3_Detailing_A9_shaded.ESP 1/15/2012 (22:18) skraeling ex_velothi_temple_02 Sailen (37,-16) 304256 -127681 759 "caspering!"