Morrowind Vs Skyrim

[Andres Indoril]

The quest arrows are what the guards used to take to the knee.

[cabal]

Hate that and the fact I can't turn it off?

You can turn it off in Skyrim, just deselect the quest as active. Not being able to turn it off in Oblivion was really annoying though.

[OldFashionedGuy]

Deselecting the quest does not solve the problem, there are no detailed directions from npc's quest givers and no detailed journal, the game was not meant to be played with the quest arrow off!

The real point here is that i like Morrowind's system of quests, i like having a personal journal that looks like it was hand written from the point of view of my character, that is a AWESOME feature. And with all the mods for Morrowind, there is no reason to ever touch Skyrim again.

Another thing, everyone needs to get the Necessities of Morrowind mod, adds so much immersion, you actually have to hunt for your food, and have a supply of food and water for long trips. Takes Morrowind to the next level

[Tarius]

Another thing, everyone needs to get the Necessities of Morrowind mod, adds so much immersion, you actually have to hunt for your food, and have a supply of food and water for long trips. Takes Morrowind to the next level

And this I disagree with. I need to find food and eat in real life. I dont want to play a game where I have to find food and eat. If it was in the game to begin with, I could tolerate it, but it wasnt, and I have no desire to add it.
Its one thing to think everyone should have a nicer looking game and/or get general bug fixes, and 95-99% of people do use things like texture replacers etc, but some dont. I mean, people cant even agree on this let alone agree on using something like NoM.

Anyway, as for the topic at hand.

I didnt play the game myself, but I did watch it get played through(console) from the start to the last place and tons of the side quests, what would basically be considered a normal game.

Skyrim definitely blows alot away visually. There was still some room for improvement(and indeed the high rez textures came out) but for the most part it is great.
The idea of fighting off the dragons is nice in theory(I would prefer the word hypothesis as theory is misused, but thats not the saying). However, I found it kinda lacking when the dragon lands in front of you, because heres a creature that by all rights should be able to pick you up and toss you aside like a rag doll, or hit you with its tail and send you flying a quarter mile. Instead, they just made it a simple hack and slash(or spells) type battle for the most part. You would at least think that getting caught in a dragon's breath would be a scary thought.

Alot of dungeons/locations seemed lacking in interesting things to find. The different kinds of enemies seemed rather limited to me, even compared to Oblivion. There was Draugr in most cases and they carried a little bit of gold etc. I mean darn, if it wasnt for the Draugr, the monster population would have been halved. In alot of cases, I noticed that torches were lit in places that didnt really seem to have any living people in them recently. I just chalked that up to magic torches or the dead or something though, but it still wasnt great.


Quest's seemed rather simplistic in alot of cases, but yes, there were definitely a couple good ones.

Regarding above, about the most interesting thing I saw involved the College of Winterhold/sphere of magnus, the collection of the amulet fragments and those masks; and I suppose the Dwemer stuff. Although I have to agree that the Winterhold stuff was lacking. Tolfdir just struck me as a complete man child. haha They made him seemed utterly amazed at everything you did and he practically didnt have a single insightful thing to say.
The above plus other quests where you end up becoming the head of one of the factions seemed really "not there". There wasnt much of a hint of people much caring that someone who just suddenly appeared will now be leading them, not much evidence that there may have been some sort of ranks and people in line. At least in MW it seemed alot more plausable and developed.



All in all, I suppose alot of the above could be fixed by mods. Which brings me to a question.
Anyone here think that Skyrim will over take MW as the game to mod? Obviously the story line could use work and what not, but the game has alot more visual goodies and quite the indepth editor. Alot more can be accomplished in making mods for Skyrim compared to MW or Oblivion(ok, not as much compared to Oblivion). The major thing from what I have seen is that the editor is not quite the simple pick up and start type thing. So the major question is:

Does all the updated visuals/ability outweigh the complicated editor and the lacking quest lines? You can also add in there that it requires voiced dialogue and this is something that tended to hinder Oblivion when it came to modding.

Wow, that was more than I originally was going to type.

[Mortimer]

Don't worry, Taddeus is already working on a TR/NoM patch, which should be a simple replacer of already existing TR objects with their NoM equivalents. So those who wish to play with or without it will be equally pleased.

[TheUnending]

All in all, I suppose alot of the above could be fixed by mods. Which brings me to a question.
Anyone here think that Skyrim will over take MW as the game to mod? Obviously the story line could use work and what not, but the game has alot more visual goodies and quite the indepth editor. Alot more can be accomplished in making mods for Skyrim compared to MW or Oblivion(ok, not as much compared to Oblivion). The major thing from what I have seen is that the editor is not quite the simple pick up and start type thing. So the major question is:

Does all the updated visuals/ability outweigh the complicated editor and the lacking quest lines? You can also add in there that it requires voiced dialogue and this is something that tended to hinder Oblivion when it came to modding.

Honestly, no.

There is a reason Oblivion didn't become as much of a modding success as Morrowind and that reason works against Skyrim too. The reason is that the graphics are too high for mods to be made that bring in new meshes and textures(that look good enough on high graphics in skyrim) and bring in entire huge new lands like people could do in Morrowind. I'm sure those that love Morrowind will continue to make tons of mods and keep setting the bar.

[cabal]

There is a reason Oblivion didn't become as much of a modding success as Morrowind and that reason works against Skyrim too. The reason is that the graphics are too high for mods to be made that bring in new meshes and textures(that look good enough on high graphics in skyrim) and bring in entire huge new lands like people could do in Morrowind. I'm sure those that love Morrowind will continue to make tons of mods and keep setting the bar.

And let's not forget that all of Morrowind's dialogue is text. You need voice actors or work-arounds for Oblivion and, I assume, Skyrim.

[TheUnending]

And let's not forget that all of Morrowind's dialogue is text. You need voice actors or work-arounds for Oblivion and, I assume, Skyrim.

Indeed.

[sirrah]

Personally, one of the most significant inferiorities of Skyrim (and Oblivion, too) is the incredibly plain, linear, featureless dungeons. Morrowind was a step down from Daggerfall's designed dungeons, too, but there was a lot of interesting hidden stuff in most of Morrowind's dungeons, and quite a few are fairly expansive. Arkngthand is pretty massive for being nearly the first dungeon player's visit, and you only need to explore a tiny segment of it to complete the quest that send you there. There's absolutely nothing like this in Skyrim. I quit playing after the letdown of Labyrinthian. I feel I'd be more permissive of the crappy character system/dialogue/quest design/etc. if the dungeons were fun.

[Mwgek]

Dungeons in Skyrim are mostly one way too. I like the bigger things in MW, where there are multiple ways to go to the same area and dead ends.

[Dragon32]

<snip>
There is a reason Oblivion didn't become as much of a modding success as Morrowind and that reason works against Skyrim too. The reason is that the graphics are too high for mods to be made that bring in new meshes and textures(that look good enough on high graphics in skyrim) and bring in entire huge new lands like people could do in Morrowind. I'm sure those that love Morrowind will continue to make tons of mods and keep setting the bar.

OK, I agree with most of this but I have some problems with the first bit.

It's a very rough indicator (and the only one I have) but Yacoby's [url=http://www.tessearch.com/]TES Search[/url] indicates Morrowind has about 60% of the mods that Oblivion has (yes: Euro-Morrowind, The Lys, morrowind-mods.org etc.)

I really don't think you can say that Oblivion's not been the modding success that Morrowind was/is, I'm still trying to put a modded Oblivion together and there're loads to choose from.

I'd agree on the models (look at the experience here with Hammerfell) but there have been some mods released, like Under the Sign of the Dragon and Elsweyr-Anequina, which create new lands and completely different environments to those found in the the vanilla game. Whilst I don't think we'll ever see an Oblivion equivalent of LGNPC (without someone paying the wages of the original voice actors...) we still haven't seen the animation options for Morrowind that there are in Oblivion.

The two games have different strengths and so different areas have been extensively modded.

Dunno about Skyrim, I still have it in the shrinkwrap. I said to myself I needed to do Oblivion before playing that. And that was three months ago...

[TheUnending]

There is a reason Oblivion didn't become as much of a modding success as Morrowind and that reason works against Skyrim too. The reason is that the graphics are too high for mods to be made that bring in new meshes and textures(that look good enough on high graphics in skyrim) and bring in entire huge new lands like people could do in Morrowind. I'm sure those that love Morrowind will continue to make tons of mods and keep setting the bar.

OK, I agree with most of this but I have some problems with the first bit.

It's a very rough indicator (and the only one I have) but Yacoby's [url=http://www.tessearch.com/]TES Search[/url] indicates Morrowind has about 60% of the mods that Oblivion has (yes: Euro-Morrowind, The Lys, morrowind-mods.org etc.)

I really don't think you can say that Oblivion's not been the modding success that Morrowind was/is, I'm still trying to put a modded Oblivion together and there're loads to choose from.

I'd agree on the models (look at the experience here with Hammerfell) but there have been some mods released, like Under the Sign of the Dragon and Elsweyr-Anequina, which create new lands and completely different environments to those found in the the vanilla game. Whilst I don't think we'll ever see an Oblivion equivalent of LGNPC (without someone paying the wages of the original voice actors...) we still haven't seen the animation options for Morrowind that there are in Oblivion.

The two games have different strengths and so different areas have been extensively modded.

Dunno about Skyrim, I still have it in the shrinkwrap. I said to myself I needed to do Oblivion before playing that. And that was three months ago...

Here is the thing, all of those sites you've listed I've not heard of. The main site I use is Planet Elder Scrolls, which has a ton more mods for Morrowind(mostly large mods that add new areas) and not nearly as many mods for Oblivion(and most of them are mods that add armor or weapons).

When I say Morrowind has been more of a modding success than Oblivion I mean that Morrowind has had more large scale modding done like large new areas added, new races, new quests, new meshes and textures out the yin yang, and several other kinds of mods, but I don't see nearly as many mods out there for Oblivion that are more than a tiny addition to the game.

Honestly, Morrowind is easier to mod than Oblivion due to the fact that Morrowind has much lower graphics and its a lot easier to create new meshes & textures, new dialogue, and some other things due to the fact that Oblivions graphics are so high that you'd need some major skills to make anything that looks as good as whats already in the game and the fact that to do dialogue for Oblivion would require voice acting and good sound editing programs PLUS I'm not for sure but I think you have to go in and make a bunch of other scripting as-well to go along with Dialogue. In Morrowind dialogue was a heck of a lot simpler.

Basically my main point is, without the ability to put in new Dialogue quickly and easily and without the ability to create your own up to par meshes and textures decently easy like you could with Morrowind, Oblivion will never be as modded as Morrowind has been and will never have as many mods as Morrowind(when I say "not as many" I mean quantity of QUALITY mods not quantity of small and easy to make mods).

Sorry if that is a long response, just tried covering all of the main points that popped into my head.

[Lady Nerevar]

PES really isn't a OB modding site, just like Nexus isn't really a MW modding site. OB was a HUGE modding success - probably larger than MW, even if that can be attributed to a larger userbase. There are landmass mods, and overhaul mods, and quest mods for Oblivion, maybe even more than for Morrowind (though I don't have time to do the math right now). It should also be noted that many of those large, fancy mods for Morrowind came out well after Oblivion's release, meaning that we should give Oblivion a few more years before we really start comparing.

[TheUnending]

I agree with you, Lady Nerevar, that Oblivion has/had a larger fan base than Morrowind, which can be attributed to it being a much higher graphics game which reached a much wider audience(most kids at my school have no clue what Morrowind is(when I've mentioned it when the topic turns to games) but a lot of them, I'd wager 50%, know what Oblivion is and love it).

In my opinion, Morrowind will always be a great game(I still play it, partly because I don't have a computer that'll run Oblivion/Skyrim and I don't have an Xbox 360) and Oblivion is great in its own rights as-well.

[Tarius]

OK, I agree with most of this but I have some problems with the first bit.

It's a very rough indicator (and the only one I have) but Yacoby's [url=http://www.tessearch.com/]TES Search[/url] indicates Morrowind has about 60% of the mods that Oblivion has (yes: Euro-Morrowind, The Lys, morrowind-mods.org etc.)

Tell us how many of those mods are for things like Japanese outfits and rediculous body shapes. I would be willing to bet that if you subtracted out the rediculous stuff like that out, it would probably go down by 10%; I am slightly sarcastic/exagerating here. Yea, there has been things for MW that didnt fit too well too, but not very many comparatively.

Dunno about Skyrim, I still have it in the shrinkwrap. I said to myself I needed to do Oblivion before playing that. And that was three months ago...

This seems to be the over arching theme I keep seeing in places, not just in the MW forums. Skyrim strikes many people as boring apparently. The same old stuff with not much of new. Sure, it has a different level system and all that, but quests ended up being the same go here do that and the dungeons were plain, as has been said already. The one way dungeons really struck me as kinda childish, like they didnt think they could depend on the player to find his way through one.

As for large mods, I agree that I do not think we will see anything quite like TR for Oblivion(ignoring Stirk). As has been said, it still suffers from the fact that you need good voice actors. Even with the large mods for MW, work was started before or right around when Oblivion came about. Oblivion has now been out longer than MW was out when Oblivion appeared, do we see anything happening with it? If something doesnt appear in the next year or two, we probably wont see it.

[TheUnending]

Tell us how many of those mods are for things like Japanese outfits and rediculous body shapes. I would be willing to bet that if you subtracted out the rediculous stuff like that out, it would probably go down by 10%; I am slightly sarcastic/exagerating here. Yea, there has been things for MW that didnt fit too well too, but not very many comparatively.

I agree, most mods made for Oblivion are ridiculously easy additions of armor or weapons. There aren't nearly as many mods that add large islands with loads of new meshes and textures and new NPC's with dialogue as there are in Morrowind.

As for large mods, I agree that I do not think we will see anything quite like TR for Oblivion(ignoring Stirk). As has been said, it still suffers from the fact that you need good voice actors. Even with the large mods for MW, work was started before or right around when Oblivion came about. Oblivion has now been out longer than MW was out when Oblivion appeared, do we see anything happening with it? If something doesnt appear in the next year or two, we probably wont see it.

I agree, I laughed earlier when someone said that most large mods came out years after MW came out so we should wait a few years and see how much modding gets done on Oblivion now that Skyrim is out, frankly from what I can tell from talkin to people most of Oblivion's fan base flocked over to Skyrim, including most of Oblivion's modding scene. As for TR, unless I'm mistaken Tamriel Rebuilt started shortly after Morrowind came out, and I haven't seen a mod project like TR appearing in Oblivion yet so that only goes to prove my point that Oblivion won't have such a big project as it would take WAY too long to do, but Morrowind keeps on getting these large project mods like P:C, TR, the project creating Skyrim(I forget its name), I think theres a project creating Black Marsh but I'm not sure, and a few others.

[cabal]

I'm just going to chime in once here and point out that Oblivion does have a Hammerfell mod in progress and there's the total conversion Nehrim. Since there aren't any completed Morrowind TCs, that's quite an accomplishment.

[Myzel]

Stating the obvious: Comparing these games to find the fundamental better one is getting kinda old and is in itself sort of pointless. We all know each others opinions already. Continuing probably just makes this discussion reach new lows, and it is already just people making uninformed judgements and trying too hard to justify their quirky love for morrowind.

[Tarius]

I'm just going to chime in once here and point out that Oblivion does have a Hammerfell mod in progress and there's the total conversion Nehrim. Since there aren't any completed Morrowind TCs, that's quite an accomplishment.

Wait, no completed TCs for MW? I dont think so. I know of at least one(the name escapes me) and I think I had heard of another. I know that there were a couple in progress as well.


And yes, I figure that some people just love MW enough to be biased for it. I have played Oblivion a couple times and it does have superior graphics(or did, MW is closing/has closed on that and will likely catch up when OpenMW finishes) For me, a couple times through Oblivion was enough, but for some reason, MW just keeps its appeal to me. I watched Skyrim and unlike either MW or Oblivion, I actually dont really have much desire to play it at all. MW has something the other games do not, some sort of charm that keeps people coming back to it. I do not think MW is the greatest game in the world(I may think that of Halo) but for whatever reason, people are keeping it alive a decade later.

[gro-Dhal]

Stating the obvious: Comparing these games to find the fundamental better one is getting kinda old and is in itself sort of pointless. We all know each others opinions already. Continuing probably just makes this discussion reach new lows, and it is already just people making uninformed judgements and trying too hard to justify their quirky love for morrowind.

This is a sensible comment, but Thrignar Fraxix is the wisest person to post on this thread for a number of reasons I may soon list at length.

[TheUnending]

I'm just going to chime in once here and point out that Oblivion does have a Hammerfell mod in progress and there's the total conversion Nehrim. Since there aren't any completed Morrowind TCs, that's quite an accomplishment.

The Hammerfell mod, unless I'm mistaken, is only a tiny mod at the moment that adds a few islands(well, I don't know for sure but that is what it was the last time I wanted to get it for my sister when she was playing Oblivion), but basically there hasn't been many huge mods for Oblivion, I mean there is a few but with Morrowind they have P:C, TR, the one creating Skyrim, and I think there is a few creating other places too but I'm not sure, and yea.

On another topic quick, what does TC mean(sorry I'm not majorly knowledgeable about acronyms)?

Honestly, I don't think Morrowind is the best game, but I know it has been a tremendous success and has spawned a huge community and it has had hundreds(if not thousands, but lets stick with hundreds) of mods to it. I've played Oblivion a bit, I like its graphics but I'll always return to Morrowind, I don't fully understand why but Morrowind is just awesome.

[cabal]

On another topic quick, what does TC mean(sorry I'm not majorly knowledgeable about acronyms)?

A TC is a total conversion; something that guts the original content and replaces it with new content.

[Thingy Person]

Well, I can think of Silgrad Tower, SoVvM and Elsweyr: the Deserts of Anequina as released TESIV expansions (I know of some unreleased projects that are getting continued in TESV). Total conversions aside from Nehrim include MERP (released) and Mesogea (WIP). Might as well take a look [url=http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/cat.php?id=30&orderby=i.date&order=DESC&tags=]over here[/url], because I haven't spent that much time discovering the mods.

Conversely, I keep hearing TR, P:C And SHotN and "possibly that black marsh project" as the only examples of land expansions for TS3, of which only TR has a partial release. Surely there has to be more than that.

[Terrifying Daedric Foe]

There's a High Rock mod and an Elsweyr mod. And I'm pretty sure Black Marsh isn't being worked on at the moment. It used to be, but not anymore afaik.

[cabal]

I'm pretty sure the Black Marsh guy's laptop got stolen a while ago, along with all of the work for the project.

[TheUnending]

There's a High Rock mod and an Elsweyr mod. And I'm pretty sure Black Marsh isn't being worked on at the moment. It used to be, but not anymore afaik.

Oh, I didn't know there was a High Rock mod or an Elsweyr mod... hmm... I'll have to keep my eye out for them.

On another topic, honestly I wish somebody would seriously make a Summerset Isle mod... it'd be like thee easiest since its its own island and you don't need to worry about borders and such, sure it'd be hard since we don't know much but honestly it'd be EPIC!

I'm pretty sure the Black Marsh guy's laptop got stolen a while ago, along with all of the work for the project.

Really? WOW, that must suck(pardon the usage of that word, but it really must). I wonder if he'll ever get back to working on it hmm...

[Thingy Person]

Actually, Summerset is a notorious mod-killer due to its extreme fantastical nature (weird architecture, biology etc). Making a province that is embedded within other lands really isn't that much trouble compared to making a city that looks like it is made out of insect wings.

[Osidian]

...its extreme fantastical nature (weird architecture, biology etc).

Morrowind?


Anyway, there are, at least, two TC released for Morrowind. The team that did Nehrim, did Arktwend and Myar Aranath for TES3, but I don't think the latter was translated to English though.

There's also a Ultima TC on the works.

[Haplo]

Let's not forget the Heaven or Hell mod

[Dragon32]

Let's not forget the Heaven or Hell mod

Oh please, can we?

Another TC: Sword of the Perithia from back in 2003. That was the only released Morrowind TC for ages, IIRC.

[Haplo]

Also Sea of Destiny and there was a sequel to that too, IIRC

[Hayabusa153]

I rather liked Nehrim and Arktwend. I got so close the beating them and then my files were...kablooie. I was so pissed. I'm good now.

[Thingy Person]

...its extreme fantastical nature (weird architecture, biology etc).

Morrowind?

We have plenty of reference material when it comes to Morrowind. As such, there was a very decent pelegiad mod for oblivion, not to mention the unmentionable mod.

The only Summerset Isles mod that I know of is the module that's a part of Onra's Under the Sign of the Dragon mod. I haven't played it myself because my computer cannot handle all of Tamriel.