Megamandude's showcase

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:59 am

Hey, here is my showcase of a hlaalu interior this is my first time using the Construction Set I would appreciate feedback.So that I can improve thanks.

EDIT arvisrend had a quick look over and said it had a lot of errors do not review this showcase it is really bad I will learn a bit more with the CS before I post another showcase. EDIT2 posted a new showcase below. EDIT3 my latest version will always be at the bottom.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:26 pm

Hey. I made a new showcase which I think is a lot better than my old one. My showcase this time is of a mournhold/house indroil interior. Please post feedback so I can improve even more thanks.

Talias · Post by **Talias** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:13 pm

There is lot of things that could be improved. I'll only mention some things related to common mistakes in showcases. Also I recommend to look at tutorials. I would recommend either http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=modding_data/tutorials&section=285513 or http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=modding_data/tuts/dsong/first_room&section=0 . At least read "The Cell" section of second tutorial.

There is style mixing - dunmer and imperial, rich and poor furniture. Also the furniture doesn't match with the interior. For showcase you should use poor dunmer furniture (furn_de_p) and velothi or hlaalu interior (in_v or in_hlaalu).

You should rotate furnitures and stuff on them so they would look more natural. And since poor dunmer furniture is uneven you should also rotate stuff on X and Y axes.

Pillows and sacks should bleed a bit.

The chair in the centre of room partly floats, you should pay attention when you place something halfway on rugs, the simplest thing to do is either place them fully on rug or not at all.

In interior cell settings sunlight values are too bright. The best thing to do is copy values from similar cell as your's.

You should place northmarker.

I don't think you should use shelves as you did, first they defy gravity and second it doesn't look too good. Instead you could use benches or downscaled tables.

You could place more objects.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:05 pm

Thanks for the feedback I will try all of those.EDIT2 here is the newest version.

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:31 pm

Review:

Clean: No
Fits exterior: yes but is too small
gridsnap: yes
lights: yes
stylemixing: yes
illegaltosleep here: yes

The main problems of the interior are stylemixing, the use of makeshifted walls when you didn't need to and the floating 03 sacks and the lack of a proper door frame for the door (use the MH_int_entrance_01). However the interior feels very awkward since there are very few objects around and all of them are place in an impractical and illogical fashion. Like I said on IRC try and picture what NPC lives there and what are the proper objects he or she would keep around the house.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:00 pm

Here is my newest version. Which is cleaned. It is the home to a mage that is why there a are lot of scrolls, soul gems and skill books to increase his magic skills.

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:28 pm

Review:

clean: yes
gridsnap: yes
lights: yes
stylemixing: yes
fitsexterior: yes

Firstly using de_r and de_p counts as stylemixing unless used in an apropriate way (like in a very large manor with de_p for servants and de_r for owners). Secondly you have stuff bleeding (as in coliding with) into the walls like the furn de_P bench 03 or the bed. More than that benches are benches and tables are tables don't use one in place of the other and rotate the 03 sacks so they fitand don't bleed or float. Sacks may bleed a tiny bit but too much hurts and furniture should never ever float of bleed into anything. The interior is still undercluttered, its bigger yes but the density of the objects haven't improved and those books need to support one another or else they would fall.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:31 am

Thanks for the review. Since it was my third time getting a review I made a new showcase which is a velothi interior. This time I decided to go for a mage warrior person who would live there I hope you like my new showcase.

Talias · Post by **Talias** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:41 pm

Clean: yes
Northmarker: yes
Lightning values: yes
Style mixing: no

active_de_p_bed_12 floats
in_velothismall_ndoor_01 floats
misc_de_lute_01 floats
food_kwama_egg_01 floats
ingred_bread_01 you can see bottom that has no mesh
de_p_chest_02_gold_25 floats
light_de_lamp_01 floats (every lamp)
de_p_desk_01_maren floats

Almost everything on de_p_desk_01_fara, de_p_desk_01_maren and all three bookshelves either bleeds or floats. The problem is that basically every piece of de_p furniture is uneven so items must be rotated to match surface.

Another problem is that there is too much free space and too few furnitures. The interior probably won't fit any exterior, but I could be mistaken. Also furnitures are aligned unnaturally perfect (rotated only by 90, 180, 270 or 360 degrees). It would look more natural if everything wouldn't be so angular.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:02 pm

Have a new version which fixes most of the problems and thanks for the review too.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:26 pm

megamandude wrote:most

why not all of them?

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:43 pm

Sorry what I meant to say I think I fixed all of the bleeding/ floaters but I am not sure so that's why I meant most.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:09 pm

To be taken with a grain of salt - some of these things are just my preferences, and some are probably wrong.

furn_de_p_bookshelf_01 with armor still floats.

light_de_lamp_01 in bedroom floats.

misc_uni_pillow_01 bleeds into bed railing.

de_p_desk_01_maren bleeds into rug (not in a way I'd call problematic, but I think this is against the TR guidelines).

Both ingred_marshmerrow_01 float.

ingred_kwama_cuttle_01 very slightly floats; rotate it.

apparatus_j_calcinator_01 is too big for the shelf. It must be scaled down to fit. Also, rotated.

ingred_bread_01 bleeds through bowl in both directions.

food_kwama_egg_01 bleeds into table: I don't consider it a bug (it could just be a rather oblong egg), but some might.

sc_frostguard floats on one side. sc_invisibility too. Rotate.

sc_elementalburstfire bleeds into shelf.

Maybe also rotate silver flamesword a little bit so that its blade touches the shelf.

bk_ChroniclesNchuleft and the other books on that shelf would fall down immediately IRL if placed in this way. They should lean upon each other and be trailed by bookends.

Some misc_com_bottle's bleed through the backside of the winerack. They also aren't placed stably: they would fall down.

bonemold_towershield needs rotation. It can't stand that way. Same for netch_leather_shield.

bonemold_bracer_left floats.

iron mace needs rotation: it certainly shouldn't be balancing on its tip.

bk_ArkayTheEnemy floats. And again, use bookends. (Or chests, or whatever else would keep these books from falling over.)

One com_basket_01_chpfood5 bleeds into the ground. (Usual disclaimer: this is not really a bug visible ingame.)

repair_journeyman_01 and hammer_repair both need rotation (handles shouldn't float), but hammer_repair should be moved up first (it bleeds).

misc_de_fishing_pole floats.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:18 am

Okay thanks for the review. I fixed up all those bleeding and floating problems so here is my latest version.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:15 am

Bump.

Talias · Post by **Talias** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:11 am

Most obvious things I noticed. But there is probably few smaller things I didn't notice (or list).

Bedrooms:
active_de_p_bed_12 bleeds
light_de_lamp_01 floats x2 (both bedrooms)

Desk in one of the bedroom:
netch_leather_pauldron_left one side bleeds one floats
Misc_SoulGem_Greater bleeds
Misc_SoulGem_Lesser party floats
netch_leather_helm should be rotated to rest properly

Second room from entrance:
furn_de_p_bookshelf_01 bleeds (and almost everything on it floats)

Other bookshelf:
misc_de_fishing_pole bleeds
repair_journeyman_01 should be rotated to rest properly
netch_leather_shield should be rotated to rest properly

Desk in this room:
apparatus_a_mortar_01 bleeds
ingred_marshmerrow_01 x2 should be removed (they are fully bleeding in desk)

First room:
Furn_De_rm_Winerack most of the bottles bleed
misc_de_lute_01 should be rotated to rest properly

Table in this room:
misc_de_bowl_01 bleeds

Bookshelf with alchemy stuff:
apparatus_j_calcinator_01 should be scaled down
apparatus_a_alembic_01 partly floats
apparatus_a_mortar_01 bleeds
all potions either bleeds floats or both
apparatus_a_retort_01 partly floats

Other bookshelf:
all books bleeds
both small chest bleed
misc_de_pot_redware_01 bleeds
sc_elementalburstfire bleeds
sc_frostguard floats
sc_invisibility floats

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:13 pm

Thanks for the review. I made a new showcase this time of a hlaalu interior it's not that big but I made it well cluttered. I went for the same style again The person who live there would be a mage warrior type. Edit forgot northmarker so here is a new version with northmarker.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:05 am

New file. Fixed a lot of floaters in this file and made the books look more stable.

Hayabusa153 · Post by **Hayabusa153** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 6:34 am

One newbie helping out another, I checked out the latest one just now. I won't go full-on in depth as it's not my job but I will provide a little newbie-to-newbie overview of what I saw. The rugs are both floating, one shelf is floating, your objects are not rotated to the de_p surfaces, and they are not rotated in a manner that makes them unique.(i.e your chitin armor is perfectly rotated and spaced and almost all objects are at 90 degree Rotation Snap. Not possible in reality.) Grid-snap and Rotation Snap are best left out for furniture and clutter.

Many things including the chest on the shelf, the bottles on the shelves and table are not rotated to the de_p surface. If you look closely, the surfaces are uneven, thus, the need for small rotation number-box adjustments, otherwise they bleed and sit unnaturally. I almost submitted a showcase with more errors than all showcases combined until I read through many showcase threads to learn from others' mistakes. I took a whole day to make my interior and another to fix it up. Just quintuple-check your interior for mistakes every time you get ready to submit. (I read that somewhere and it really works wonders.) From the looks here, you have potential. Just gotta slow up and check all changes you make.(So do I...)

Hope this helps you somehow!

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:25 pm

Thanks for looking at it. I fixed the floaters you mention and rotated the items to look more natural and I made them not look uneven any more. Here is a updated file.

Hayabusa153 · Post by **Hayabusa153** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:57 pm

Wow, lotta improvement here. I'll list what I saw this time. I'd rather help out as much as I can while I wait on my own official review.

Floaters:

Light_De_Lantern_01 (table and shelf)
apparatus_j_mortar_01
chitin pauldron - left/right
chitin greaves
misc_com_wood_fork
misc_de_goblet_01
all your redware items
misc_com_wood_cup_01
misc_com_wood_bowl_01

Weapons need rotating

pillow and sacks need to be bled slightly as they are soft objects.

misc_com_wood_spoon_01 bleeds

that was all I saw when I looked. I am an unpatient person though so there may be more errors. I hope not. Well, I hope this helps!

Please note that my little critiqes are not official and do not count against your three try limit.

EDIT: IDK if i said it wrong but make sure that the bottoms of your objects match the de_p surfaces. Think, how does a cup sit on a 30 degree slope? Crooked! that's the key to de_p furniture. Match faces.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:35 pm

Thank you very much again. I fixed all the floaters and bleeding problems and bleed the pillow and the sack. So here is my newest file.

Hayabusa153 · Post by **Hayabusa153** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:33 am

Light_De_Lantern_01 still floats.
ALL shelf items need to be rotated to surfaces still. (Chest, bottles, gold, soul gems.)
Sacks are bled a little too much. bleed them a little less. That's basically what I found. Oh, and the weapons are floating. one part sits on the shelf but the other half floats due to the poor craftmanship of de_p furniture.

That's my newb overview this time. Many improvements! Keep it up!

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:26 pm

Hey thanks again. I fixed up the lantern floating and made the sacks bleed a little bit less. I also hopefully rotated all the items on the shelf to match the de_p surface. So here is my newest file.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:33 pm

you've already received 4 reviews for that file (counting the one arvis did on IRC). You'll need to make a new file.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:16 am

Hey guys I want to give the showcase another go so here is my new showcase. It`s another hlaalu interior. Of a mage type npc.

Tyrant · Post by **Tyrant** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 5:26 am

I'm no reviewer, but I do remember trying to get my first showcase passed, so hopefully I'll still be able to give you some helpful advice.

You have a very wide variety of items here, I can see potential, but you need to spend more time on making sure each item sits absolutely right on it's surface. Look closely at the De_P furniture. Book shelves, desk etc... You'll notice the surfaces are jagged and rough. Well, that means that every single item you place on them needs to be rotated so that they rest naturally and flat on them. When I'm placing objects on De_P furniture, I personally like to move the item directly over top of the shelf/desk, press "F" to lower it so that it rests on the surface, then double-click the item so that the rotation coordinates can be changed by hand. Once you have the exactly rotation you need, hold down "Z" and drag the item on the vertical plane, so that it's just resting on the furniture. You have to further change the rotation of the object at this point to make sure it's resting just perfect. Practice this, it will take time, but you will get faster and faster at it. Now look closely at the objects in your interior and you'll see what I mean. Notice how everything sits unnaturally on your shelves? Don't worry, this is the most common mistake new modders make, it all just takes time and patience.

Nextly, do you notice all the space between furniture? I'm sure you can agree that would feel quite unnatural if you were to walk into this room while playing Morrowind. Try to fill up all the space available, with stuff that fits, and makes sense.

Which brings me to my next point. You mention in the description that this interior belongs to a wizard or mage NPC... however nothing really seems to suggest that. I certainly wouldn't have reached that conclusion. On one shelf you do have soul gems and potions and such, and yet on another you have chitin weapons and armour, which would suggest an ashlander... and on top of that there's a lute resting (quite unnaturally) on the table, which makes me think of bards.

Ultimately, here's my advice:

I can see you have potential, but this interior really feels slapped together.

First of all, definitely work on placing items correctly, go back and look now at the items on your shelves and see what I mean about them floating, or not resting properly. It takes time, but it's very important to have this skill mastered.

Second, think about which items you are placing, it seems like you went through the object list grabbing items at random and scattering them evenly throughout this interior. Like I said earlier, if this house belongs to a wizard, make that obvious. What would a wizard have in his home? Probably lots of books, potions, soul gems, probably a shrine, or an alchemy station, maybe he's into necromancy etc... there's tons of options here. But this interior definitely doesn't scream "wizards house" to me...

Third, I think you should take a look at other showcases that have passed review. Look at what they were told, and look at what they did to pass. Also, look at Bethesda interiors, look at what they do, methods they use to fill up interiors. Find a wizards house, and see all the techniques Bethesda used to show who the interior belonged to.

Fourth, play the game. I'm sure you've played Morrowind... But there's tons you've probably overlooked or taken for granted. As a modder you will see the game differently. Walk into a room, and really try to notice all the work that went into making it. Look at absolutely every single item that has been carefully selected, and rotated to fit where it's sitting.

Don't worry, it takes time, but if you're serious about it, you'll get there. There's a reason TR has such a high standard for people they allow to contribute to the project. It's the only way it could look as amazing as it does!

Think about what I said, and I eagerly await your next upload.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:47 pm

Hey Tryant. First of all thanks for posting some stuff I should add to my interior. I did all of the such as Making the items matching the de_p surface, making so it looks more like a mage such as taking out the lute and replacing it with alchemy stuff. Also I replaced the chitin armour With netch leather armour. The reason why I placed armour there in the first place. I figured the mage who was living there needed a little pit of protection. Also there are a bit of weapons there because that is what the mage is going to enchant next with his soul gems. I also added some scrolls to and filled the interior up more adding more stuff such as clothes to places there were clothes but not enough. If this isn't enough to convince you that it doesn't look like a mage still I also have a table were he keeps his ingredients for alchemy. Any way here is the new file.

Tyrant · Post by **Tyrant** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:07 pm

This file is nearly identical to the previous version. As far as i can tell the only changes you made were exchanging chitin items for leather ones (which doesn't help showig that this house belongs to a wizard), and adding alchemy equipment. None of the shelf items have been fixed to rest properly on the shelf. Look close at the bases of your bottles and notice how they all sit straight up despite the shelfs rough surface. I dont want to discourage you, but you really cant rush this.[/i]

Hayabusa153 · Post by **Hayabusa153** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:35 pm

An easy thing you can do is to double click on the object and a window will pop up. Look for rotation values. Mess around with those until you get the hang of it.

P.S. Hey Tyrant, That's a huge-ass avatar. Nice one though.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:57 pm

Hello I am back I would like to try this again I will take my time this time around but could I ask some questions first? How do you rotate correctly on to de_p I still don't get how to do that yet and I would appreciate any help. Second of all was it bad to just do one floor for my next showcase should I do a two floor hlaalu house?

Finally I would like to apologize to you Tyrant for not taking your advice I will take it in the future and look at other interiors that from other people and look at Bethesda ones when I am creating my showcase I hope you forgive me for not listening to me and help me the future thank you.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:25 pm

Can anybody answer this? I hope this doesn't come across as a bump but I am getting to the part where I am starting to put my De_P items around my showcase and I would appreciate a answer. Thanks

Why · Post by **Why** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:20 pm

Oh wow, hi, sorry nobody got back to you on that. Please do bump things like this, sometimes they slip through the cracks if we're all busy.

Yeah, a two story Hlaalu house will be good. To rotate items, look at the surface it rests on, and the bottom of the item, then align the two vertices so that they're parallel, and drop the item on to the surface. It requires some precision, so go to file->preferences and set your camera pan and rotate to low values, that way you'll have an easier time zooming in on the proper places. Also sometimes pressing W for wireframes helps.

As for examples, don't bother looking at vanilla interiors, they just haphazardly drop stuff on tables without rotating it. [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=294267#294267]My interior showcase (link)[/url] had some rad rotation going on, if I may say so myself, so you can look at that if you want to see an example.

Good luck!

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:22 pm

Thanks Why. I hate to bother you again but can you look at this picture and tell if these two swords are rotated right to fit the de_p surface? Thanks

Why · Post by **Why** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:27 pm

Looks about right, it'd be easier to see in an .esp though. The bounding box on the selected one seems to suggest the tip is floating.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:51 pm

Though remember, the hilt of a dagger is generally heavier than the blade, so the blade should be in the air anyway, assuming the surface is somewhat flat, and the hilt is resting on the surface properly.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:13 am

Hate to do this again however I don't want to use up a review slot telling me I didn't rotate the items right. So can somebody take a look at this dresser and see if I rotated them right to fit the De_P surface. Thanks in advance

Not · Post by **Not** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:46 am

Unfortunately, one can only see so much with screenshots, so it's pretty much impossible to tell with that screenshot. Also, it would be better if you had the collision box around the objects (the colored line box you see when you click on an object) so that way we have a better chance of seeing if it is or not.

megamandude · Post by **megamandude** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:00 am

Alright I added the collision can you try to see if it does now thanks

Not · Post by **Not** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:29 am

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear; I meant that you should add the collision box around the individual objects on top of the dresser itself. That shot doesn't really help me.

On the other hand, Leon is right about posting an esp, it'd be so much easier to look at an determine whether it's rotated properly or not. Since this is your first attempt with an all new interior, you'd still get two more tries after this one regardless.

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