Morrowind population

[Laheja]

For long time, I have thought how morrowind can feed it's population, and how many people really can live land like morrowind.

What dumners eat? How much do they eat? What about other races? I have seen hound meat, rat meat and crab meat and some green plants on their plates. And there are plantations, but bread? Were does the bread comes? From saltrice? And the processing, the making of bread, magickal?
There are some bakery's in TR but not in morrowind.
btw most of the bandits also seem to be starving, they have no food, only booze.

I don't know if I'm the only one who thinks that it is odd that in morrowind there are more bandits then there are civilians or at least not realistic number of them.

The game world obviously is not realistic and the tamriel world probably have been scaled down a lot ( otherwise we would not want to play it, if we must run from Balmora to Ald-ruhn for hours)

For obvious reasons we can't place thousands of NPC-s in one town, so scaling down is inevitable, however how much really morrowind or tamriel as whole has been scaled down?
How big it really is?

[Haplo]

Moved to Off-Topic Discussion.

[Laheja]

Thanks, figured it was in wrong place, don't know why I didn't make it right away to the off topic section

[cabal]

Keep in mind that Vvardenfell was re-settled by the Great Houses fairly recently so there's not as much of anything there as on the main land.

As for the bread, I assumed it was made from wickwheat, which is found all over the Grazelands. There are also several farms and plantations scattered around the Ascadian Isles and the West Gash, and Vos is referred to as a farming community.

Also, House Dres is supposed to have a strong agricultural economy and their lands are basically Morrowind's breadbasket.

Although how the bandits survive on nothing but matze, I have no idea.

For obvious reasons we can't place thousands of NPC-s in one town, so scaling down is inevitable, however how much really morrowind or tamriel as whole has been scaled down?
How big it really is?

Let's see... I think in game Red Mountain is about 200 feet tall in game and stated to be the second tallest mountain in Tamriel, behind The Throat of the World. If we scale the world up to make Red Mountain almost as tall as Mount Everest, Red Mountain would be about 145 times as tall at 29,000 feet. That would make Vvardenfell, about ten square miles in game, over 200,000 square miles. That's about 458 miles across rather than a little over three. This puts Vvardenfell at twice the size of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon]Oregon[/url].

Of course that's assuming I estimated Red Mountain's height correctly; it could be taller in game. I also used the Earth's tallest mountain as a comparison and we don't know how tall Red Mountain is actually supposed to be. I don't think I would put Red mountain at any smaller than 20,000 feet though, which would make Vvardenfell no smaller than approximately 100,000 square miles. Once again, that's assuming an in game height of 200 feet.

If somebody could tell me how tall Red Mountain actually is in the game I could make a much better range estimate.

[Laheja]

By these calculations it would seem that Tamriel as a whole is not much larger than europe, if Vvardenfell is approximately 200 000 square miles that would mean it's roughly as large as Spain, yet how should we think of tamriel, as one region including summerset, Vvardenfell and smaller island or as single landmass excluding islands?

If House Dres handles most food production in morrowind district then how it would influence the politics with other houses, it would seem that other houses then would have to rely on Dres or by going into conflict with Dres they would have serious food shortage.

Also can someone give info how much nutritions dumners really need, do they need do eat approximately 3 times a day or rather once a day?

BTW how long dumners live? Some telvanni wizard lords seem to be thousand of years old, yet this http://www.uesp.net/morrow/preview/morinter1.shtml seems to hint that dumners live only couple hundred of years and life expectancy is connected with bloodline, don't know though if this article is legit (canonic, lore-friendly etc) or not.

[Laheja]

Hmm here http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Tamriel it says that Tamriel is about 12 million square miles, and that would be closer to size of Africa.

[karpik777]

BTW how long dumners live? Some telvanni wizard lords seem to be thousand of years old, yet this

This is the key part - wizards live far, far longer than mere men (and elves).

Let's see... I think in game Red Mountain is about 200 feet tall in game and stated to be the second tallest mountain in Tamriel, behind The Throat of the World. If we scale the world up to make Red Mountain almost as tall as Mount Everest, Red Mountain would be about 145 times as tall at 29,000 feet. That would make Vvardenfell, about ten square miles in game, over 200,000 square miles. That's about 458 miles across rather than a little over three. This puts Vvardenfell at twice the size of Oregon.

It's better to measure the size using the data given in the Pocket Guide to the Empire - there are 250 miles between Almalexia and Red Mountain.

[Laheja]

BTW how long dumners live? Some telvanni wizard lords seem to be thousand of years old, yet this

This is the key part - wizards live far, far longer than mere men (and elves).

Yet how does the key part work? Do they live longer because they have high magickal powers? In the game it is said that telvanni master Dratha has lived as long as she has because of the necromancy, yet no other master seems to be accused of necromancy which would suggest that their high age is not traditionally behind it.

[karpik777]

Yet how does the key part work? Do they live longer because they have high magickal powers? In the game it is said that telvanni master Dratha has lived as long as she has because of the necromancy, yet no other master seems to be accused of necromancy which would suggest that their high age is not traditionally behind it.

We don't know HOW they do it, but we know they CAN extend their lives - like Divayth Fyr who has a few millenia under his belt.

[saimol]

Yet how does the key part work? Do they live longer because they have high magickal powers? In the game it is said that telvanni master Dratha has lived as long as she has because of the necromancy, yet no other master seems to be accused of necromancy which would suggest that their high age is not traditionally behind it.

We don't know HOW they do it, but we know they CAN extend their lives - like Divayth Fyr who has a few millenia under his belt.

Are we sure Divayth Fyr is really over 4000 years old? You realize that would make him older than Tribunal?

[Why]

Living for 4000 years is hardly a stretch when one has mastered cloning. Heck, for all we know, Fyr might even be a clone of his past self. I feel like I'm on to something here. Cue dramatic music.

Edit: for serious now, Sotha Sil's Last Words do seem to suggest Divayth is older than him, and in the same source Divayth hints at being alive when Azura turned the Chimer into the Dunmer.

[cabal]

It's better to measure the size using the data given in the Pocket Guide to the Empire - there are 250 miles between Almalexia and Red Mountain.

Then assuming that [url=http://uesp.net/wiki/File:Racemap05S-Morrowind.jpg]this map[/url] is accurate, Vvardenfell may be around 48,400 square miles.

Hmm here http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Tamriel it says that Tamriel is about 12 million square miles, and that would be closer to size of Africa.

It quotes the Arena manual for the size. I'm not sure if that's considered a canon source, especially given Arena's oddities in comparison with the later games.

[Laheja]

It quotes the Arena manual for the size. I'm not sure if that's considered a canon source, especially given Arena's oddities in comparison with the later games.

What do you mean by Arena's oddities? Do you mean random generated land masses?
Don't know much about earlier bethesda games myself,(first I played was Morrowind, not very interested in playing arena or daggerfall due to so much weaker graphics at that time) only have read up on their main quests and history.

[saimol]

Living for 4000 years is hardly a stretch when one has mastered cloning. Heck, for all we know, Fyr might even be a clone of his past self. I feel like I'm on to something here. Cue dramatic music.

Edit: for serious now, Sotha Sil's Last Words do seem to suggest Divayth is older than him, and in the same source Divayth hints at being alive when Azura turned the Chimer into the Dunmer.

Hm, it seems we have a bit of contradiction here then:
According to Uupse Fyr:
"As you know, he's probably the oldest and most powerful wizard alive. Not counting liches, or divine sorcerers like Vivec, of course. And there may be some older in the West, on Summerset Isles, perhaps."
Of course she may simply not know that Fyr is older.
Heck, no wonder Telvanni refuses to worship Tribunal.

[karpik777]

Hm, it seems we have a bit of contradiction here then:
According to Uupse Fyr:
"As you know, he's probably the oldest and most powerful wizard alive. Not counting liches, or divine sorcerers like Vivec, of course. And there may be some older in the West, on Summerset Isles, perhaps."

The Vivec part might have referenced only the "powerful" part - Fyr was a one man army, but I doubt even he could stand againts Vivec in his prime (ie. when he had full access to the Heart)

[cabal]

What do you mean by Arena's oddities? Do you mean random generated land masses?

That too, but the lore hadn't been firmly established yet in Arena. Their description for the Khajiit, for instance has, "Legend has it that they descended from an intelligent feline race, for they still retain a strange cast to their features," and they look very human.

When they changed the Khajiit to be more feline in later games they also introduced the idea of different breeds of Khajiit, which would make the Arena ones most likely Ohmes or Ohmes-raht. It still makes the manual's description rather dubious, though.