Zobator's quest showcase

[Zobator]

Hi all

I would like to contribute to TR and therefore I've created this quest as a showcase. It's pretty straightforward and nothing over the top or lore-breaking.(no guars pooping lightning bolts)

The quest starts in the basement of Gro-Bagrat Plantation near Vivec. From there on, it's pretty obvious what to do.


I think I've cleaned out all the bugs, and cleaned everything with TesAME (I hope I got everything)

So let me know what you guys think and if I may join your noble ranks

EDIT: Updated the ESP according to Mortimer's advice.

[Mortimer]

Going through your journal/dialogue was a bit of a treat as it contains unusually good grammar from what I'm used to looking at in showcases - so be proud. (Minor things like using three instead of 3 and some capitalization problems but for the most part it's correct)

One thing that strikes me about the journal entries though is something you'll want to avoid in the future, and that's telling the player what they should do or think. Remember - the player plays the quest not the other way around. Starting a sentence in a journal entry with "I should" is the wrong way to go about it.

For instance this is a good journal entry you've written, "I've found an abused Argonian slave, Mush-Kur in the basement of Gro-Bagrat Plantation. It appears the Camonna Tong had a skooma lab and they were testing skooma blends on the slave."

And this is a poor one, "When I left the Shack of Mush-Mere I was ambushed by 3 Camonna Tong assassins. It's clear they know where we are. I think I should tell Mush-Mere about this attack..."

Instead of telling the player what they are thinking at the time (or what they SHOULD be thinking), tell them only the pertinent facts. "I should buy a common robe and a netch helmet for Mush-Kur from him," becomes, "Mush-Mere told me he requires a common robe and a netch helmet for Mush-Kur's escape."

Also this makes me think this hasn't been cleaned properly when I see things like this:
"13568231434823734"
"Greeting 1"
"lich_relvel"
"Weakling! You dare to cross my threshold? You, then, will be the first to fall, before the undead army sweeps across this land like a plague, cleansing it of your flesh. Die, mortal!"

and

"2583529070786213408"
"Background"
"vonos veri"
"I am %name, I serve Almalexia as one of Her Hands."

Give it another quick run-through.

AND your naming conventions are off - look in the main requirements for our npc/quest naming system. Some npc's have TR others have nothing, but none have anything else attributed to them.

Note: I haven't actually played the quest, only dialogue and TESame, so I can't check scripts ;_; I apologize in advance, but keep up the effort, you'll get there!

[Zobator]

Thank you for looking into it.

I'll change the journal entries, you're completely right. Didn't think about that.

I must have missed those dialogues, but I'll clean them out once I've changed the rest.

For the naming system: I can't find it anywhere, so that's a problem someone will have to help me with. But I have to say only a part of the changed NPC's are new, There's a number of NPC's that's from the original Morrowind.

Where do I find the naming system?


EDIT: I've reuploaded the file with changed journal entries and cleaned it better this time.

[TheUnending]

*face-palm*

I'm going refrain from posting from now on...

[Zobator]

Yes, I know about the name generator, which I used to make this quest. But I think Mortimer is talking about the ID's because the names should all be lore-friendly...

I don't think a dunmer named Tadave Andala or an orc name Orakh are out of place?

[Not]

For the naming system: I can't find it anywhere, so that's a problem someone will have to help me with. But I have to say only a part of the changed NPC's are new, There's a number of NPC's that's from the original Morrowind.

Where do I find the naming system?

LINK: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=modding_data/ngen
LOCATION: Main -> Utilities -> Name Generator

Actually, for showcases we usually aren't really that strict, it's just nice for whoever reviews the showcase if you have a similar nameing strategy. I personally haven't checked your file so I don't know how you named them, but something along the lines of; your intials, the mod you're working on, and then the object. A perfect example would be what I did for my showcase which was Not_SC_Objectname (SC being showcase.) Again, it really doesn't matter too much how you go about it, as long as they all start with the same prefix, so that again, reviewers will have an easier time.

Also, please remember that here at TR, we do have our own unique methods of naming things, so if you're really planning on working here, you really should learn the naming conventions (It's not that hard and I'll teach you if you need help.)

Finally, TheUnending, you completely misunderstood what was said. He wasn't having trouble with NPC names or anything. Also, the name generator here is pretty much broken, so I really wouldn't recommend using it at all.

Anyways, good luck and happy modding!

Edit: Yes, those names are fine. We're pretty leniant with that stuff when it comes to showcases anyways, so please don't worry too much about it

[Thrignar Fraxix]

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=3837 is what you are looking for. just make something up for the claim ID.

[Zobator]

Ah, I understand.

The only new objects I've created for this quest are NPC's and all of their ID's start with tr_

An example: tr_tadave_andala

I understand a project like TR needs to get everything sorted and properly ID'ed. So no worries, if you guys let me in I'll learn the procedures

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=21296
I'm reading this as I speak (or type in this case...)

[Not]

Like I said; I really wouldn't worry about it too much. While it is important to learn it, the fact is, once you start taking quest claims, the journal IDs and object IDs for your specific claim are going to be assigned to you anyways, so you'll already know what IDs to use.
Still, it is good to learn them just the same. Oh and, as far as the tr_object ID method that you're using goes, it's perfectly fine for your showcase. Keep up the good work

[Zobator]

Just to let you guys know I'm nearly ready with the story for my second showcase. It's about the murder on an imperial guard.

EDIT: Just re-written more than half of the story since I just realised how I could make the story a whole lot more realistic. Got a whole lot long too

[Why]

Nice, looking forward to it!

[Zobator]

Hey all

It has been a while and I said I would finish my 2nd showcase last week, but unfortunately I was caught up in studies. Graduated High school now and still studying to get in to med-school.

I worked on this when I had time but most of the time I was very tired so excuse me if there are any mistakes I've missed.

There's lots of dialogue so there's enough space where I might have missed some spelling errors.

This quest starts of between Buckmoth Legion Fort and Ald'ruhn. Look for 3 Imperials standing around a dead body.


Before you judge, please remind that this was made while very tired. It might not be ready but I didn't find any errors in the last 3 playthroughs so I think it's ready for a showcase release.

[arvisrend]

First things I've noticed...

The quest plays well, at least the way I did it. I'm not sure how nice it is to lore: Gambling isn't thaaat much of an issue in Morrowind.

Please make your file depend on Bloodmoon, too. And TR_Data since it contains some neat dice you could use for the gambling cellar.

Falling off a guard tower is kinda overused as a way to die.

There are typos like "promissed" and "depts" (debts, not departments), "garisson", "witstand" and "powerfull". Or "around her" (should be "around here") and "has been cooperation", "that's all settled" (should be "that all's settled").

The dialogue "Coin-Tosser" for NPC Lugo should have a "I want to get the fucker out of business" option, even if it would just trigger a fight.

If you make a new guard NPC, it's probably a good idea to not simply copy the standard Imperial Guard, but to change the head and hair a bit, too.

Teleportation is disabled when I am in jail and not enabled back again.

Coin-Tosser's untimely demise in Dagon Fel didn't get me a quest update since I killed him before he attacked me.

[Zobator]

For the lore about gambling: gambling would be illegal if you allow gambling at very high stakes, wouldn't it? At least, that's what I would think...

Coin-Tosser should give you a journal update whenever you kill him. That works fine on my computer.

I added Bloodmoon dependency but I haven't come around yet to download Sacred East so I haven't added that dependency yet, but I've started downloading it now. (Having new stuff to play with is not a good idea while studying, even worse than modding )


And I usually avoid words like "fucker" just to be sure not to offend anyone.

[arvisrend]

I just meant there should be a way to tell Lugo that, no, you are not looking for a way to join his gambling operation, but you want to kill him because he deserves it. At the moment, none of the existing options says that.

Here is why Coin-Tosser's death doesn't trigger a journal update: "if ( GetHealth <= 0 )" is not a reliable way to find out whether an NPC is dead: particularly when NPCs know magic, they can end up with positive health after death. This rather reproducibly happens when you kill an NPC while he has a healing spell running. So you should replace this by "if ( onDeath )".

Also, in script TR_QA_CT, the "Enable" could be better placed inside an "if ( getDisabled )" statement; otherwise, the NPC is enabled every frame.

"Setdelete 1" is reported to crash MW if any other function operates on the same reference in that frame. Don't know whether this means you should separate the "disable" from the "setdelete 1" in TR_QA_LtL, TR_QA_Murder_remove and TR_Quintus_Apulioscript.

[Zobator]

I've changed the bits with GetHealth and Enable

The option to fight Lugo the first time came to my mind as well but I didn't think it was necessary. But if the first person who reviews it thinks it's worth implementing, then I guess I'll add it anyway...

I didn't know SetDelete caused crashes if you use it at the same time as Disable? (didn't read that part on UESP ) I'll get that sorted out tomorrow.

[arvisrend]

You should read MSFD, not UESP, about scripting. I myself never don't remember any crashes from SetDelete and Disable running in the same frame, so I am not sure about this issue; thus the "don't know". But generally MSFD tends to be right.

The dialogue choice I suggested doesn't necessarily have to lead to a fight with Lugo. What I want is a way to tell straight in Lugo's face what you think of the whole business rather than pretending you want to either cooperate or be a crime boss yorself. The "lawful good" response, more or less. Dialogue choices should cover at least "lawful good" and "chaotic good" (but having the "neutral" alignments covered is also a good thing).

[Zobator]

I have MSFD on my desktop but UESP is a lot easier to browse IMO

And if I'd say in Lugo's face that I want them to stop, there has to be some skull bashing IMO

[Why]

Good to see you're still around. I'll get to this tomorrow, I hope!

[Zobator]

Updated the scripts and added an alternate way to end the quest.

Did a playthrough and didn't encounter any errors. Let me know if you do and let me know what you think of it.

[arvisrend]

Clean: No. gold_001, gold_005, gold_100 are modified, along with lots of other stuff, most importantly Pellecia. Easy to fix.

TR_Data: Not used. I think showcases that use TR_Data are preferred.

Int design: The trap door to the hidden basement in Pellecia's house is way too small for anyone to pass through.

The basement is a bit barren. Gamblers should need chairs, at least, a cupboard for storing documents maybe too, some urns perhaps?

Why a hidden basement at all? They can just play in the normal lower level of the house. I think building such a basement raises much more suspicion than just having people getting together and playing some games once in a while (gambling per se isn't illegal, is it?). As a questmaker in TR, you'll be mostly working with ints made by others, and there won't be much need in extending them.

Scripting: You don't use consistent naming conventions (TR_DesertedWallGrate vs. TR_QA_CT), but I suppose it's becase you don't know ours (and I must admit I don't understand all of them either).

This isn't really scripting, but: If you kill Coin-Tosser in Dagon Fel, he doesn't drop the 2000 gold that he'd give you if you agree to spare him. How does he get this money?

Dialogue: I haven't read all of it, but I like what I see. Some typos are still in there, including some of the ones I pointed out in the above, and ones I didn't notice ("paniced", "privelege"). Rest assured that occasional typos are not a big issue.

Claudius Aurrus, when he is protecting Pellecia, might also have a dialogue topic "Coin-Tosser" which is enabled when you hear that name from Pellecia. Nothing important, but could add some immersion.

For some reason, the option to accept a bribe from Pellecia and lie to the guards about the murderer doesn't present itself unless you have already tried out all other suspects. So if you happen to check out the suspect in any order in which Pellecia doesn't come last, you won't ever get this option. Not very logical, I'd say.

So much for the review. The file has some minor blunders but there's definitely enough good stuff in there to recommend promotion for quests once you've fixed the above issues. It might not be a quest suitable for TR due to the presence of a crime syndicate completely unknown on Vvardenfell, but it shows that you have the potential for making quests, and that's what showcases are for.

[Zobator]

Nice to hear. I haven't got time to do any of the cleaning (not at home till Tuesday-night) but I'll do them.

I didn't know showcases were intended to be actually used in the TR project? Otherwise I would've made up a story that has smaller(can't recall the right word) background.

But anyhow, I'll fix the bits and clean the stuff and that'll be the end of my second showcase. I'll make a 3rd if I'll need to

[arvisrend]

Showcases need not be usable for TR, but some of them are and possibly end up being used indeed. In that case you'd have to make a quest for TR_Mainland.esm.

[Why]

Nice to hear you've been recommended. I look forward to your final file then. ^^

[Zobator]

Hey all

So I guess this'll be the final version of my 2nd showcase.

I cleaned everything.

Checked spelling (if there's still some typos you'll have to blame Word Spell Check).

TR_Data included. (Used those dice you told me about)

Added some things to the interior of the basement. I left the trap door unchanged. (I couldn't find another good spot to place it and otherwise it would clip if enlarged)
But hey, I'm not applying for interior design

Made the naming of scripts consistent.

Added dialogue to the guard inside her house.

You can only bribe her once you've heard about her business, so that's why that option isn't available when you go straight to her instead of asking others. (Logic'd)

Hope this is enough to be promoted. Agreed that's it's not extremely lore-friendly but it's the best I could come up with while studying.

[arvisrend]

Well-done. Recommending promotion for quests (unconditional this time).

Nitpicking:

This isn't really scripting, but: If you kill Coin-Tosser in Dagon Fel, he doesn't drop the 2000 gold that he'd give you if you agree to spare him. How does he get this money?

When you handled this, you forgot to cover the case when the player just attacks Coin-Tosser without dialogue. (This is not unlikely: The player is getting attacked by Slooma and has no reason to believe that Coin-Tosser will just stand by, so he fights back against both of them. Always keep in mind that the player is making decisions based on what he knows, not based on what you know.)

[Why]

Now that was an enjoyable quest. Promoted, welcome to the team!

There were a few minor issues, like the note and Lugo not showing up for me. I tried to determine what the issue was with the CS, but I couldn't really find it - it all looked like it should work properly. It's often times easier to use disable/enable for things like this, but I suppose that's in part personal preference. Other than that, there were a few spelling errors in your dialog and I encountered some strange sentence structure a couple of times, but those things are very easily picked up on and taken care of during review. It's not something that's going to hold me back promoting you, especially because I really liked the tone and style of your dialog. Another observation I made was that it was sort of strange to have mr. investigator hang around the corpse for the full duration of the quest. He'd be better off moving into Buckmoth at some point, having completed the investigation of the crime scene.

Be sure to hop onto IRC and hang out with us, it's a good way to get to know the team. You should be able to see a lot more of the forum once the admins get your settings sorted out, have fun reading through the archives a bit. And feel free to join in the discussion whenever you feel you have something to add, especially in quest design!

edit: Oh and of course, whenever you have questions PM me, that's what this Head of Quests title is for!

[Haplo]

guars pooping lightning bolts

I've half a mind to hold off on that promotion until I see this... I'd pay good money to see it done well, especially as a form of attack.

But alas, it's unlikely.

Member Promoted for questing and script work. Congratulations, Zobator, and welcome to the team

[Zobator]

I'm honored Now lets have a look at those quests that have to be made