About the connection of static objects.

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:52 pm

I did some experiments around the joint statics in a single mesh as they have in the CS.
And it works!
[url=http://imgur.com/FriNv][img]http://i.imgur.com/FriNvl.jpg[/img][/url]
Rather dreary and time-consuming task, but still capture of all objects in the scene is automated.
Now I working on a compound rocks in Baal Malure to reduce the number of objects in the scene and make the city possible to generate LOD.
But I also want to note that the city needs a unique meshes. Just look at the area around the arena, consisting of a set of bridges, to understand it.
So I want to offer to work in this direction. I think the Baal Malure and other cities have similar cases, where several statics can be replaced by a single model. In theory, should be enough just me for all the work here.
Propose to use this thread for suggestions for merging objects.

Mwgek · Post by **Mwgek** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:15 pm

The problem of making unique meshes for one single use is the size of the TR_Data. But I think this will greatly benefit the fps and lod. Try to cut as many polys as you can where rocks are overlapping eachother.

We still have a lot of new stuff to add to the data and it's already pretty big.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:34 pm

Yeah, but do know I personally requested this. If the main body of the spiked mountain range is split up into a few parts, it can easily be used for other areas in this region as well. More usage = more economical in terms of amount to download.

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:40 pm

Mwgek wrote:The problem of making unique meshes for one single use is the size of the TR_Data.

I understand. But I do not propose to make a unique model anywhere, but only where necessary.
Even more so NIF files weigh much less than unique textures, for example.

Mwgek · Post by **Mwgek** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:47 pm

Don't get me wrong I think changing the rocks is a good thing. You said something about seperate meshes for bridges etc. That is prop. not going to change. Since the seperate bridges have more uses.

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:57 pm

I mean those cases when many models overlap. Like on the arena of Baar Malure.
I will make screenshots tomorrow.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:24 pm

It almost surprises me there isn't some sort of modding tool/script for this yet.

On that topic, someone with more technical knowledge can probably answer this: I suppose Morrowind's engine is entirely too primitive to have any sort of draw call batching feature?

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:47 am

Mwgek,
[url=http://imgur.com/WNbne][img]http://i.imgur.com/WNbnel.jpg[/img][/url]
Here these bridges.

Adanorcil
From OpenMW Forum:

In Morrowind, I am fairly sure there were some batching, but complex culling algorithm were too much for the CPU I think, and things like PagedGeometry could not be implemented because it require directX 9 I think.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:52 am

Yeah... That is a lot of hidden faces and unnecessary resources used.

Mwgek · Post by **Mwgek** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:10 am

And it looks bad. We maybe should get a claim up for a more unique model in there?

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:32 am

The Baan Malur arena is awesome! Don't say it isn't!

LiberumAvis: if you're doing stuff like this, consider checking out Almas Thirr in Detailing A2. It's a makeshift Velothi city I made. Due to all the pieces being small, it doesn't show up properly with MGE.

Post by **arvisrend** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:43 am

I don't know if this is the right topic for this, and I don't know whether it's a good request to make, but could you look at the parts of the Sacred Lands detailed by Scamp (for example, coc to "Mugan Crypt" and take a walk outside) and see what can be optimized out there without making the place seem less foresty and lush? Change some of the flora_tree_gl's into less-poly versions? I hate to say but this place gives me a lower framerate than Baan Malur and Almalexia...

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:00 am

Aeven wrote:The Baan Malur arena is awesome! Don't say it isn't!

Awesome, but need some fixes.

Aeven wrote: LiberumAvis: if you're doing stuff like this, consider checking out Almas Thirr in Detailing A2. It's a makeshift Velothi city I made. Due to all the pieces being small, it doesn't show up properly with MGE.

arvisrend wrote:could you look at the parts of the Sacred Lands detailed by Scamp (for example, coc to "Mugan Crypt" and take a walk outside)

I can do it. But it will add new models in the data. Decide whether you need it. I can try to make the models suitable for different places and cases so as not to cram base vain.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:19 am

Well the Almas Thirr one is definitely one we need. Currently there is an amazingly large number of statics in use, which also makes it hard for MGE to render them properly for distant land.

Bero · Post by **Bero** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:15 pm

Why is the size of file so important? Most people I know can download movie within a hour and those are ten times bigger than TR file.

Mortimer · Post by **Mortimer** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:01 pm

Bero wrote:Why is the size of file so important? Most people I know can download movie within a hour and those are ten times bigger than TR file.

With the amount of times people download these and given how much more we still have to add, you want to avoid file bloat as much as possible. Only large troublesome statics should be combined in this way (eg Baan Malur, Almas Thirr, etc), while other one-time use statics probably aren't worth combining. Ideally you should combine them as much as possible, but it's a lot of work and makes the file size really big really fast.

Post by **arvisrend** » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:11 pm

We're talking about 100 to 200 MB here (and the inclusion of SHotN resources probably will raise it much more significantly than a couple of new trees or combined statics). Compare this to the size of Witcher 2 and other contemporary games, and you'll see there's not much of a space problem. It's another question whether a big BSA makes the game laggy (e.g., if the engine loads everything into RAM? well, hopefully it doesn't), but I don't have any data on that. Does anyone?

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:19 pm

arvisrend wrote:It's another question whether a big BSA makes the game laggy (e.g., if the engine loads everything into RAM? well, hopefully it doesn't), but I don't have any data on that. Does anyone?

I think its very important question. It occurs - because the archive unpacking during the game. But all part of archive remains in ram or only necessary?
I'll make some tests tomorrow if I'll not reseive the answer before.

Post by **arvisrend** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:34 pm

With thanks to peachykeen on #tamriel:

[18:32] peachykeen: only part of the archive (the index) is constantly loaded, but it does have to do some loading and parsing of that and validation
[18:32] peachykeen: giant BSAs will slow down startup, but aren't that bad otherwise
[18:32] arvisrend: ok, i'm going to hope that if it's only the index, it won't be a problem
[18:32] peachykeen: you definitely, absolutely, do not want to clear 4 gigs with one
[18:33] peachykeen: probably not even 2
[18:33] arvisrend: yes i've heard of a size limit
[18:33] PangeanSage: soooo you guys don't mind if I do an exterior and interior showcase all in one?
[18:33] arvisrend: but that can be easily averted with several BSAs
[18:34] peachykeen: i think the file format itself (in that offsets are 32-bit) restricts it to 4 gig

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:49 pm

Oh, that's good. In that case, we can make a list of the required regions to optimization? I can not verify all the regions alone. If there are problems with mge, Distant Lend or performance - please write in the thread, preferably with a list of files bsa and esp required for its region.

Post by **arvisrend** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:29 am

Right out of my head, the biggest FPS killers are the above-mentioned foresty part of the Sacred Lands, the town of Akamora (but I fear there is not much to do there), the Lan Orethan jungle (try coc'ing to Dreynim Spa and go into the forest, or better, if you have M3A8 loaded, go to Bosmora, if you want to see it at its worst) and to a much lesser extent the 5-1 claim (Baan Malur).

I'd consider Akamora and the Lan Orethan a relative priority, as these places are going to be stressed in our next releases (SE 1.4 and Almalexia, respectively). But I don't know whether there are an absolute priority, i. e., more important than making new models from scratch.

Thanks a lot for your persistent work on this!!

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:46 am

Model optimization for our next releases is always nice, I hate the laggyness of the Lan Orethan jungle. I have no skills whatsoever regarding models, but I guess a trained eye might catch what's making these areas lag so much.

Is it the morrowind engine? The models? Or a combination of both?

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:34 am

arvisrend
Thank you. I'll take a look.

Is it the morrowind engine? The models? Or a combination of both?

I have not looked, but I'm sure that the one and the other. Morrowind can not to properly distribute the load on the CPU and optimization of working with RAM is poor. This, of course, will be fixed in the OpenMW, but all we can do now - to optimize the meshes.

And yet - almost all of the cells with more than 1,000 objects are unstable. I've seen lags mainly with scripts, but sometimes there were other bugs like failures in texture, duplication of objects, FPS drop, etc.

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:06 pm

Nemon, can you make a claim for the rocks that you requested? I would need some discussion of my work, because now I'm moving almost blindly.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:43 pm

For the Baan Malur rocks? I can't, but I'll have the admins put up a claim and we'll priovide a thorough description asap.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:24 pm

Just a late and somewhat off-the-wall question: Doesn't Morrowind come with DirectX 9.0c?

And LiberumAvis, here is the claim you request;
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23720

LiberumAvis · Post by **LiberumAvis** » Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:50 pm

Haplo wrote:Just a late and somewhat off-the-wall question: Doesn't Morrowind come with DirectX 9.0c?

And LiberumAvis, here is the claim you request;
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23720

No, Morrowind does not use the DirectX 9.0c. MGE only adds some features possible with DirectX 9.0c or above.

Thanks for the claim.