A couple of questions on the politics of MW

[arvisrend]

I've not done my lore homework, so I guess most of these can be answered by looking things up rather than thinking things up. I'm interested in the answers mainly for quest designing.

1) What crises (House conflicts and border conflicts) have happened in Morrowind for the last couple of hundred years? Is there still anyone alive who could tell a tale of these, or even still hold a grievance against the former enemies?

2) Who organizes the kidnapping of slaves from Argonia and Elseweyr? Do the Dres themselves hunt them beyound the borders? If so, why is there no military reaction? Otherwise, are bandits (the sort that lives in caves ingame) doing the dirty work? Or do some Argonians and Khajiit themselves sell their brethren to the North?

3) How much is the Morag Tong trusted/respected among the Redoran? Could a noble family reasonably believe that the Morag Tong are biased towards a different family? (We figured out that this couldn't happen with Indoril. While it probably does work for the Hlaalu, I'd be more interested in having such matters happen in the Redoran questline, to create some betrayal/infighting dynamics.) On the other hand, could the Morag Tong actually be biased towards one or another family, or are they above such trifles?

4) I am thinking of making [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=12200&highlight=i3149ind]i3-149[/url] (in M3A4West) a Temple sickbay both for ordinators and for ordinary Temple members who have been harmed on duties or pilgrimages. (This means, e. g., that the statues will give way to planters and alchemy apparatus.) Is the idea of ordinators retreating together with almost laymen too outlandish, or is this what the Temple would do? It adds a kind of heroic component to being a Temple member, although I'm not sure whether that's how it should be.

[Why]

1: To my knowledge the only recorded significant armed conflict in recent Morrowind history is the [url=http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Arnesian_War#The_Arnesian_War]Arnesian War[/url] some 30 years before the events of Morrowind. If anything I'd imagine the last few years to have been relatively peaceful. Individual conflicts within Houses don't usually spill over in a major way and are instead dealt with according to House traditions, and full-on House Wars are typically unnecessary because warring families turn to the Morag Tong instead of taking up arms themselves. More on that in the answer to #3. Having said that, vanilla includes quite a few quests concerning territorial skirmishes (though this is on Vvardenfell, where House territory is very much in flux and Telvanni expansionism has everyone on edge) and on the other hand two families going at each other's throats and bypassing the Tong isn't implausible at all either -- I can imagine some would prefer taking care of matters themselves, especially if family honor is at stake -- so you can basically make up something if you need it for storytelling purposes. Though there have probably been enough kidnappings of young Redoran in vanilla alone.

2: This is mostly speculation, so take it with a grain of salt. I'd say the Dres do most of the kidnapping themselves, though at some point the line between "Dres Slave hunters" and "band of marauders" could become quite blurred. Morrowind has won quite a significant victory vs the Argonians in the Arnesian War, so the Dres won't be afraid of any military retaliation. I'd also imagine that the jungles aren't exactly under firm Imperial control, and the Argonians seem to lack a central authority besides the Hist, which probably wouldn't be bothered by a few kidnappings (though please correct me on this if I'm wrong, I honestly don't know much about Black Marsh) leaving the small isolated villages in the Northern jungles to fend for themselves. Concerning Khajiit, I don't actually know. I've always had a hard time imagining Dres hunting parties crossing the Niben to hunt cats in the deserts.

3: Some background for the Tong:

The Morag Tong are very much an extension of ancient Chimer tradition. It was Mephala who organised the Chimer into Great Houses and founded the Morag Tong. The Tong and its Writs ("The afore-mentioned personage has been marked for honorable execution in accordance to the lawful tradition and practice of the Morag Tong Guild. The Bearer of this non-disputable document has official sanctioned license to kill the afore-mentioned personage.") are actually recognized by Dunmer (Temple) law. The Morag Tong isn't just a group of assassins, they're the organisation that keeps the peace between the Houses by using secret murder to avoid bloody conflicts. The Dunmer accept this fact and the Tong as the embodiment of Mephala (and by extension, but not as prominently and not quite explicitly, Vivec).

So the Tong itself is very much above House politics. A nice example of that, I think, is that it's technically led by a member of the Hlaalu clan, but still kills indiscriminately. The Houses, especially the more conservative ones, should respect the Tong as they respect Mephala and the Ancestors. Having established that, a family will probably not just open the door, lay down and die if a Writ has been issued with their name on it. Depending on the position of the family and the targeted family member they might choose to defend this individual against all odds or, the other extreme, to cast out the individual in order to avoid unnecessary bloodshed. If one family is targeted over and over they probably won't be happy with that, but I doubt the Tong would accept writs for multiple family members in such a short time frame anyway, since it falls to the Tong to take or deny requests and they want to maintain their impartiality. It should also be a rare occurrence for the Tong to be called upon during conflicts between families of the same House. Such conflicts should be taken care of in-House, for instance by honorable duels, paying damages (money and/or slaves), some sort of oath, or burning down your rival's mushroom tree and sending Daedra after their servants. Things would have to get really ugly for a family to send the Tong after their own House brothers.

4: I like this idea. It's a nice opportunity to show the differences between Ordinators and regular priests and pilgrims while put in a similar situation. The location of the place is a bit odd for such an interior, but that's easily fixed by stating that it dates back to before the Armistice, when Ebonheart was still Indoril.

[arvisrend]

Thanks, Why!

You're totally right about the Redoran preferring duels to the Morag Tong. I should have thought of that...

On the other hand, the very idea of a noble being cast out of his family due to getting targeted would be a great twist on the honor ideology of the Redoran. If not too great a twist... That could lead to some interesting stories. What if he decides to join the Hlaalu, which then use him as a living demonstration of Redoran betrayal?

#2 wasn't exactly an urgent question; it will be relevant to the Twin Lamps questline (do we want quests having the player hunt down slave hunters?) but that's in the far future.

#4: I'll definitely make the place accessible without levitation. Other than that, well, Vivec is pretty close to Ebonheart as well. My worries were of the nature that having the ordinators and regular pilgrims live (even temporarily) in the same hostel would be too much down-to-earth-ness for ordinators (compare to "we're watching you, scum"). If that's not an issue, then there shouldn't be any.

[gro-Dhal]

1. Mainly the Arnesian War. The extent of Dunmer involvement in the invasion of Akavir and the Disaster at Ionith is unknown, but they may well have played a role as the Easternmost province. Other than that, the expansion of the Sixth House has been a slowly developing crisis for the past few decades.

Vvardenfell was only opened up to non-Temple settlers recently, and the land grab by the three houses and the Empire might have sparked off a few feuds.

2. Black Marsh doesn't seem to really be a nation-state as we would understand it. I don't think the Argonians have a standing army as such, or any real border controls. It's probably routine for Dres slavers to raid into Black Marsh, although obviously travelling too deep into Argonian territory carries risks.

As for the Khajiit, good question. Possibly the Argonians take them prisoner in their own border raids on Elsweyr, and sell them on to the Dres in the hope that they'll be left alone?

3. What Why said, although I don't think a Redoran expelled because of issues with the Morag Tong would flee to another house. They'd be more likely to strike out on their own.

Also bear in mind that the inner workings of the Morag Tong are mysterious. They don't appear to kill for money or power, but select which contracts to pursue based on their own criteria. I suspect their primary concern is maintaining some sort of political balance, but who knows?

Edit: hooray, I can log on again

[Why]

I agree that adoption by another house seems highly unlikely but I suppose a rival house could be interested in whatever knowledge or resources an outcast MT target has, and the target will probably do anything if they're desperate enough, so I'm willing to work with the idea to a certain extent.

[arvisrend]

Thanks, too, gro-dhal! That should be enough moral dillemas for two Twin Lamps questlines... For starters, imagine that one of the Argonians which the TL (or even the player while working for the TL) have rescued and freed turned out to be one of those slavehunters.

I agree that adoption by another house seems highly unlikely

Hey, but the player is there to do unlikely things.
House Hlaalu quest: convince the guy to join the Hlaalu (to serve as their propaganda puppet on bilaterally favourable conditions).
Maybe he then gets murdered later and the player gets the blame...

[Why]

I actually thought it'd be potentially hilarious to have an outcast target beg for the protection of the family that, unbeknownst to the target, issued the contract.

[Yeti]

Perhaps Khajiit criminal groups in Elsweyr are involved in selling their own people to Dunmer traders, ideally in the crime-infested southern port of Senchal. Similar to human-trafficking in the real world.

[Matin Sanguine]

Perhaps Khajiit criminal groups in Elsweyr are involved in selling their own people to Dunmer traders, ideally in the crime-infested southern port of Senchal. Similar to human-trafficking in the real world.

I was thinking along the same lines as well, The Dres raiding across Cyrodil to reach Elsweyr would never be tolerated. Argonia is simply too long of a journey to travel all the way through, break into Elsweyr, capture slaves, then travel all the way back on a regular basis (imagine the amount of opposition they would face, that and the long distances would make this unsustainable). I agree with Yeti in thinking that Dres cooperates with criminal orgainsations in Elsweyr, and possess some sort of direct oversight there to ensure the operation isn't threatened. And as to how they would smuggle them out would defintely be through the sea, inland would simply take too long and be too risky.

EDIT: I found this on a UESP wiki article concerning slavery:

"House Dres thrives on mass-abduction of Argonian and Khajiit into slavery, often with the support of local rival warlords, selling their own kind."