5-20-Red

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:27 pm

Any recent file?

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:45 pm

Revoked then.

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:08 pm

Claiming! Lots of murky Ash Swamp and some BM. Will basically continue to use Sir Dave's latest file as a model with some changes for smoother transition.

I promise to actually finish this one (or at least try really hard).

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:19 pm

Granted. Remember to detail roads, follow river maps and check out the surrounding claims for consistency. Have fun!

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:26 am

Update. Removed the Daedric ruin. Lots of progress on the ash swamp and transition with somewhat less progress on the Velothi Mountain bit.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:33 pm

It looks to be progressing nicely.

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:25 pm

Thanks Nemon!

New update. Lots of work done all around the claim.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:58 pm

Looking like it's properly on track, don't forget to clutter the hell out of the inhabited areas, and some extra attention for the roads as well!

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 4:44 pm

Added lots of shading and some clutter and fixed a number of floaters/other problems.

Interior suggestions:

-18,6: as discussed in the IRC this is a small Temple shrine that offers healing to people going/coming from the ash swamp
-19,6: TR_ex_red_tower: redoran guar tower. ex_redoran_barracks_01: inn, may have a shop inside
-20,6: Mine
-20,5: Mine workers quarters?
-20,4: natural cave
-21,4: mer explored cave
-21,7: velothi tower/tomb

Why · Post by **Why** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:05 pm

If it's just a shrine it shouldn't be a redoran_building_01. Imo either use the Vos Temple model or make this a Temple-run inn with a modest shrine, and the barracks building an outfitter where people can buy essential goods required for traveling through the swamp (food, basic native armor and weapons, tools, scrolls).

Edit: actually, come to think of it, I think it might be a better idea to use the regular-sized guard tower model rather than the huuuuge TR variant. That thing should only really be used in significant cities and such, and the height simply isn't necessary here, I believe. The same goes for the ex_redoran_building_01. I know we've discussed this before, but in retrospect I still think it's way too big for a simple roadside outpost. A _02 building is more than large enough, really.

Post by **arvisrend** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:37 pm

Hmm. I'm split about this: the pine forest is pretty nice, but some other places seem too undetailed and bland. I'm missing anything different from rocks, trees, plants and snow: Abandoned fireplaces? Active fireplaces? (See, for instance, 5-21, cell -28, 0, furn_de_firepit and the stuff around it.) Carts? Tents? (OK, we might wait for that model.) The occasional BM rock formations that remind of Nordic barrows? (Probably it's too far south for real accessible Nordic barrows here, but there can be hints of ones buried under the earth.) Maybe the occasional ex_redwall_posts's along the road? Tree stumps? (Do we have a mesh for pine-forest deadfall, rather than chopped-down trees? I think that if not, we need one!) Also, some of your big rock formations can have some stuff for players who know levitation.

I believe that when some place in MW has both terrain_rocks_* and minor flora (shrubs, flowers), then usually these tend to cluster together (flowers tend to grow between or near the little rocks). Whyever this is so, it looks neater than having them placed arbitrarily. Don't take my word on this, though.

Also, you did a good work averting the floating-ladders bug, but for some reason you apparently didn't care much about caspering rocks formations:

11/6/2012 (11:48) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_04 TR_5-20_Red (-21,4) -167866 34362 21 "casper"

11/6/2012 (11:49) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-21,4) -166656 35387 153 "casper"

11/6/2012 (11:49) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-20,4) -161756 36817 120 "casper"

11/6/2012 (11:49) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-20,4) -160883 37197 103 "microcsasper"

11/6/2012 (11:50) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-20,4) -156510 36956 49 "casper"

11/6/2012 (11:52) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-18,5) -142709 42308 26 "casper"

11/6/2012 (11:53) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_01 TR_5-20_Red (-19,5) -153203 44670 219 "casper"

11/6/2012 (11:54) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_02 TR_5-20_Red (-19,5) -152354 42299 20 "casper"

11/6/2012 (11:54) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-20,4) -157674 40179 414 "casper"

11/6/2012 (11:55) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling ex_cave_door_01 TR_5-20_Red (-20,5) -162053 46145 903 "do we have ints for such shells?"

11/6/2012 (11:55) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-20,5) -163692 47018 1331 "casper"

11/6/2012 (11:55) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-20,5) -160872 48405 1459 "casper and ugly bleeding with rock_rm_17"

11/6/2012 (11:58) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_BM_holly_01 TR_5-20_Red (-20,5) -156949 42537 1980 "a bit undetailed... more bush here?"

11/6/2012 (11:58) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-20,5) -157484 45097 1898 "float"

11/6/2012 (11:58) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Terrain_rock_BM_48 TR_5-20_Red (-20,5) -156556 43832 1331 "flowers?"

11/6/2012 (12:01) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_06 TR_5-20_Red (-20,6) -158566 57051 1886 "float"

11/6/2012 (12:01) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_04 TR_5-20_Red (-20,6) -158876 57289 1964 "float"

11/6/2012 (12:02) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_01 TR_5-20_Red (-20,7) -159912 58582 1912 "float"

11/6/2012 (12:02) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_04 TR_5-20_Red (-20,7) -159742 58341 1722 "float"

11/6/2012 (12:02) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-20,7) -156497 62606 532 "ground texture shift visible here"

11/6/2012 (12:03) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_BM_holly_04 TR_5-20_Red (-20,7) -156110 59013 872 "float"

11/6/2012 (12:03) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Terrain_rocks_BM_01 TR_5-20_Red (-20,6) -162816 57263 2171 "ground texture shift visible here"

11/6/2012 (12:04) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling ex_velothi_entrance_02 TR_5-20_Red (-21,7) -163857 61583 3506 "shouldn't there be a door here?"

11/6/2012 (12:04) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_03 TR_5-20_Red (-20,7) -161047 57697 1726 "a bit too barren too"

11/6/2012 (12:05) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terr_BMcliff04-0.5B TR_5-20_Red (-21,7) -166242 65457 1008 "caspers"

11/6/2012 (12:05) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Terrain_rocks_BM_02 TR_5-20_Red (-20,7) -157544 65373 2371 "ground texture shift visible here"

11/6/2012 (12:06) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling ex_de_shack_05 TR_5-20_Red (-19,7) -151429 61774 79 "door?"

11/6/2012 (12:07) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Terrain_rock_BM_49 TR_5-20_Red (-19,6) -150943 54806 271 "between here and the road, barren land"

11/6/2012 (12:08) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_07 TR_5-20_Red (-20,6) -156447 50845 1031 "the road is too big. this isn't a soviet proving ground"

11/6/2012 (12:09) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling flora_trama_shrub_02 TR_5-20_Red (-20,5) -162019 47657 1390 "microcasper"

11/6/2012 (12:10) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling TR_terrain_BM_rocks_01 TR_5-20_Red (-21,6) -166596 55617 5393 "Casper"

11/6/2012 (12:34) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_04 TR_5-20_Red (-19,7) -148833 57673 533 "flaot"

11/6/2012 (12:34) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_02 TR_5-20_Red (-19,7) -148763 57411 546 "flaot"

11/6/2012 (12:34) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_tree_BM_06 TR_5-20_Red (-19,7) -149073 57950 510 "flaot"

11/6/2012 (12:34) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_4.esp 11/6/2012 (11:47) skraeling Flora_BM_shrub_01 TR_5-20_Red (-19,7) -150378 58226 283 "flaot"

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:01 pm

Why and arvisrend's sentiments are both spot on, please refrain from using the large ass Redoran towers for small settlements. They are too huge for that. And replace the other building with something smaller.

Concerning detailing, it's better to have slightly less trees and more shrubbery/grass/flora/logs/stuffs - than a crapload of repetitive trees. And arvis' suggestions on traces of lost barrows is good, it's too far south in this region for all out in the open nordic barrows, at least in this claim - which is somewhat open in nature.

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:23 am

This is (or should be) done (or at least something really close to done).

Changes: Changed the huge tower with a normal one, changed the temple with a smaller building, fixed the caspering and other errors arvisrend noticed, fixed some more caspering, improved shading and added some clutter so that various areas look less like the red square.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:24 am

Close, but still a couple of hours work required.

In -20, 7 you have added a satisfactory amount of smaller rocks (single ones or clustered ones) in the transitional area between grass and cliffsides. Elsewhere in your claim this has not been good enough, for instance -20, 5 - the forested part of this claim. Both lacking in smaller rocks and flora in my opinion, although I stated the need for more flora in Tuesday's post!

Ash swamp area is good, although I want you to add one or two lantern posts like the ones I used in 5-21. These should be repeated throughout the ash swamp, and although I might not have checked all former claims for these light setups, they are still required.

The Redoran outpost required\s quite a lot of clutter, containers, stuff and so on to be of the quality we expect nowadays. Remember that people will stop by here, we have more than enough good vanilla and TR clutter items to make this place actually seem living.

The shack doesn't have a door, and there's basically no items outside it, and some sub sea placed barnacles and lights should occur off coast of the mainland. This is especially nice to look at when stopping by small settlements/locations.

Roads are not detailed enough, more rocks/grass please.

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:15 pm

Sorry for the misunderstanding. The more rocks/grass statement sounded more like a general statement than an 'you should do it' sort of thing and I'm probably used with TR keeping the old/vanilla cluttering standandards. My bad: the clutter level will go up from now on.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:34 pm

alex25 wrote:Sorry for the misunderstanding. The more rocks/grass statement sounded more like a general statement than an 'you should do it' sort of thing and I'm probably used with TR keeping the old/vanilla cluttering standandards. My bad: the clutter level will go up from now on.

Which we have abandoned years ago, have you even looked at the recent stuff we've done?

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:41 pm

Nemon wrote:
Which we have abandoned years ago, have you even looked at the recent stuff we've done?

I might have seen a difference but I'm a bit hardheaded.

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:30 am

Hopefully this is good enough now.

Why · Post by **Why** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:39 am

Is the low amount of TR_ash_fungus_0X on purpose?

edit: random thought of the day, we need to make those puffshrooms lootable objects. And since Arvis mentioned lights, do we have lights in the swamp at all?

Post by **arvisrend** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:46 am

Having had just 10 minutes to look at this, I can only say that the pine forest is quite nice, the Redoran fort is still undercluttered (barrels and crates don't really count: we're not in a shooter). I'm not a connoisseur of the ash swamp to judge that part. Anyway, as a backseat exter, I should reiterate that all I'm saying is just suggestions and recommendations.

Now I'm really going offtopic, but: do we have any light objects for the pine forest? Like the fungus light for the bitter coast in vanilla, and like various stuff in Skyrim that makes exploring the lands much more beautiful at night.

PS. 11/26/2012 (02:49) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling Terrain_rocks_BM_01 TR_5-20_Red (-20,7) -162802 57859 2240 "abrupt ground tex transition"

alex25 · Post by **alex25** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:01 am

Wow, you guys are fast!

The low amount of fungus is on purpose although perhaps it is a tiny bit too low. The only lights in the swamp are 4 lamp thingys that Nemon wanted. There are no forest lights in TR or vanilla content.

Why · Post by **Why** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:04 am

Yeah the lights isn't something you should address, it's a larger overall thing for later I suppose. But I was under the impression that there should be more of those fungus thingies. Anyway, Nemon should probably decide what to do with it etc.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:24 pm

I've had a quick look, and it's an improvement. Overall detailing seems ok, although a few more items could have been added to the outpost. I'm sending this to review, as it seems ready for a proper look by our fine reviewers.

Post by **arvisrend** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:34 pm

Good work on the bugs -- I see almost no more of them.

11/26/2012 (10:21) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling TR_terrain_BM_rocks_01 TR_5-20_Red (-21,6) -165789 55315 5367 "casper"

11/26/2012 (10:27) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling TR_terrain_BM_rocks_01 TR_5-20_Red (-19,6) -154029 50003 555 "still puzzled by the lack of flora aÃƒÂ¶pmg this road, but that's subjective of course"

Post by **arvisrend** » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:02 pm

OK, so I had a closer look at this. Let me reiterate that the pine forest is very nice. The snowy part seems somewhat cacophonic, particularly in the places where it borders on the BM-rock part. The fishing hut is cozy but would be more so if better detailed. The Redoran outpost and the mine need more stuff, but I understand very well why they are so undetailed: it is very hard to clutter such places without having a very concrete and tangible idea of what they're supposed to be and who's supposed to live/work in them, something we don't have for map 5 yet. Maybe this can be left to the NPCer? Or we should make a discussion about that now.

Leon, you're free to comment, just don't call it a review (I'm not calling my posts a review either). Here are more bugs I've spotted:

11/26/2012 (13:43) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling TR_terrain_rocks_RM_04 TR_5-20_Red (-21,5) -171023 41431 1382 "casper"

11/26/2012 (13:48) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling TR_terrain_BM_rocks_01 TR_5-20_Red (-21,6) -164192 55241 5435 "casper (look from below)"

11/26/2012 (13:49) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling Terrain_BM_snow_05 TR_5-20_Red (-21,6) -169477 52311 5889 "gravity shmavity"

11/26/2012 (13:51) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling Terrain_BM_snow_05 TR_5-20_Red (-21,6) -170976 54767 5814 "not sure about the physics of this, but this also seems to defy gravity"

11/26/2012 (13:55) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling crate_02_bottle05_16 TR_5-20_Red (-19,7) -151259 61509 237 "this could have a use for something other than containers. a bench or stool, a fishing pole, some baskets, lanterns? (yeah, lanterns. this place has absolutely no light.)"

11/26/2012 (13:58) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling Flora_BM_shrub_01 TR_5-20_Red (-19,7) -150368 59456 317 "1) this floats"

11/26/2012 (13:58) TR_5-20-Red_alex25_6.esp 11/26/2012 (02:32) skraeling Flora_BM_shrub_01 TR_5-20_Red (-19,7) -150368 59456 317 "2) can we have more of these?"

Tyrion · Post by **Tyrion** » Sun Jul 07, 2013 5:29 pm

TESAME: Clean

Fits exterior: Yes

Northmarker set: Yes
Loading errors: No

Review: The usual collection of minor floaters and bleeders, no serious errors. All issues noted have been fixed.

Comments This was a bit sparse at times, but otherwise well made. Noted a lack of vertex shading in certain parts of the ash swamp region. Be sure to vertex shade where necessary.

Rating 7.5/10

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:47 pm

Approved. Nice work alex! I know it's some of your older work, but something to focus on is make sure that you don't have tree trunks or foliage bleeding into rocks where you can avoid it.