Tashpi Ashibael question

[Tes96]

In the [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Kill_Necromancer_Tashpi_Ashibael]Kill the Necromancer[/url] quest, Tashpi says she agrees to go into [url=http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/263/71ng.jpg]hiding in the mainland[/url] if you let her live. You can also kill her, of course. But if she is allowed to live and escape, could we add an Ashpi NPC on the mainland somewhere who is enabled if you let her live? It's unknown where she goes in the mainland but I think it would be great for immersion if when you were exploring the mainland cities/towns, you stumbled upon her coincidentally and could reminisce about the experience you two had.

[Why]

There are multiple NPCs in vanilla who move to the mainland in some way. I honestly don't know if we want to do anything with that, but if anyone has any good ideas I welcome them.

[Gez]

Same deal as [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23956]Vodunius Nuccius[/url] and possibly [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Larienna_Macrina]Larienna Macrina[/url].

Other little nods would be having [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Drulene_Falen]Drulene Falen[/url]'s family in Dres.

[Melchior Dahrk]

Odral Helvi gets sent to the mainland to go on trial, so he could be seen in a jail cell there.

Drinar Varyon also gets sent to jail on the mainland.

Sadal Doren mentions heading back to the mainland, but he might end up in Cyrodiil.

Duvianus Platorius, the Census and Excise agent might be seen back on the mainland.

Just to name a couple others.

[Tes96]

Wow, what a great list. I didn't know there were that many NPCs who "traveled". I hadn't played the game that extensively. Anybody know of any other NPCs that have not been mentioned whom we would see on mainland Morrowind? Or on any other province for that matter.

[Gez]

Alright:

• [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Tashpi_Ashibael]Tashpi Ashibael[/url] is a Velothi healer. During the "[url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Kill_Necromancer_Tashpi_Ashibael]Kill the Necromancer[/url] quest, we can make her leave to the mainland. Sensible and moral characters will choose that option since she's not a necromancer and it's quite clear that Ranis Athrys is using her position of power to fight personal vendetta under false pretenses.
  
  Where would Tashpi go? There is no guarantee that players will do that quest in this way, or at all, so she cannot own her own place. As a healer, she'd make sense in a Temple or Imperial Cult shrine, but as a Velothi she has no reason to join either (Tribunal Temple worships false gods; Imperial Cult is a foreign thing). She could also make sense in a Mages Guild, but we know she already refused to join it in the past and she's even less likely to join now if it means Ranis might see her name on a roster one day.
  
  One possibility that remains open is to join the employ of a Redoran councilor or something. Be a private healer for the family. She gets out of the public eye and gains a protector. Redoran because she was in a Redoran town to begin with, and the Redoran seem the Great House that looks the most favorably over the Velothi underclass. (Since on Vvardenfell, the Velothis are found mostly in Maar Gan and Gnisis, both in Redoran territory.) House Telvanni doesn't care for weakness, House Hlaalu doesn't care for paupers, House Indoril loves the Temple too much to like Velothi heathens. House Dres would fit the bill, but they're on the other side of Indoril lands.
  
  Another possibility is for her to join a Mainland Ashlander tribe, but do we actually have any?
• [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vodunius_Nuccius_(person)]Vodunius Nuccius[/url] is a commoner. He leaves to Narsis [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vodunius_Nuccius_(quest)]if you buy his crummy ring[/url]. He's got a house in Seyda Neen, but not a lot of funds. (Why didn't he think of selling his house? Probably because the engine does not allow renaming cells. (Wait, actually. Can't you disable an exterior door and enable another in the same place that links to a different interior?)) He might find employment as a servant in a manor in Narsis. For the same reason of optionality as Tashpi (and pretty much everyone in this list), he cannot have a cell named after him, so his fortune cannot have changed enough to let him own a manor and live in luxury.
• [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Larienna_Macrina]Larienna Macrina[/url] has a vendetta against [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Battle_at_Nchurdamz]a Daedroth[/url]. She's supposed to go take care of unfinished business on the mainland, but she isn't actually disabled. The simplest idea would be that the unfinished business is fighting another monster (a daedra, or a summoner maybe) in some other dungeon on the mainland.
• [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Odral_Helvi]Odral Helvi[/url] is a corrupt Hlaalu Councilor. (No, it's not a pleonasm.) If, during [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Shipment_of_Ebony]his last quest[/url], you give the contraband to [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Segunivus_Mantedius]this guy[/url] along with the whole story, then Helvi goes away. He should be in an Imperial jail somewhere. Preferably not in Hlaalu territory.
• [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Drinar_Varyon]Drinar Varyon[/url] has two quests that can land him in trouble. [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Dwemer_Artifacts_at_Drinar_Varyon%27s_Place]The first[/url] is explicitly to catch him, the second is the same as Odral Helvi's.
• [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Sadal_Doren]Sadal Doren[/url] is one of three slave hunters that you can mislead to [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Twin_Lamps]help a slave escape[/url]. The most logical place for him to be would be a tavern, with some booze.
• [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Duvianus_Platorius]Duvianus Platorius[/url] is met during the main quest while trying to get information out of [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Addhiranirr]Addhiranirr[/url]. He might try to catch a gondola for the mainland if you [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Vivec_Informants#Addhiranirr_Informant]lie to him[/url]. (Spoiler: there are actually no gondolas to the mainland.) He's probably stationed in Old Ebonheart or wherever the nearest big office of the C&E is found. You'd presumably find him behind a desk.

[Tes96]

Gez, do you think making these NPCs enabled on the mainland should be an external mod add-on for TR or something that is integral to TR?

[Gez]

An external addon would be dumb. Either we use them, or we don't. If we use them, we use them.

[Yeti]

We're going to use them. It will be a nice tie-in to the original game. Frankly, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't have them return.

Somehow, I picture Vodunius Nuccius wandering the streets of Narsis as a penniless pauper, doing odd jobs at the city docks perhaps.

[Melchior Dahrk]

We're going to use them. It will be a nice tie-in to the original game. Frankly, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't have them return.

Somehow, I picture Vodunius Nuccius wandering the streets of Narsis as a penniless pauper, doing odd jobs at the city docks perhaps.

That is so good to hear. Honestly, one of the things that first made me want to travel to the mainland was when Duvianus Platorius said he was going to take a gondola to the mainland. I was like, mainland? What? Can I swim there?

So it'd be great to see these people show up there.

[Why]

Somehow, I picture Vodunius Nuccius wandering the streets of Narsis as a penniless pauper, doing odd jobs at the city docks perhaps.

Begging you for 100 gold so he can return to Seyda Neen

[Haplo]

Somehow, I picture Vodunius Nuccius wandering the streets of Narsis as a penniless pauper, doing odd jobs at the city docks perhaps.

Begging you for 100 gold so he can return to Seyda Neen

This would clash with our current plan to have him be assassinated in front of the player by Dark Brotherhood

[Why]

Somehow, I picture Vodunius Nuccius wandering the streets of Narsis as a penniless pauper, doing odd jobs at the city docks perhaps.

Begging you for 100 gold so he can return to Seyda Neen

This would clash with our current plan to have him be assassinated in front of the player by Dark Brotherhood

why not both?

[Yeti]

Assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood? What's the story behind that idea?

[Haplo]

An idea we thought up on IRC for new players would have Vodunius Nuccius at some undetermined point forcegreet you with his line about wanting to make it to the mainland, and offer to travel with you. So you go on foot to the nearest point with the least distance between Vvardenfell and the Mainland and "set up camp for the night" or there's an inn there or something. And if you have Tribunal.esm activated, then when you sleep, assassins appear and kill Vodunius Nuccius while you are frozen, and then once he dies, you are unfrozen and they attack you.

But I like this idea better. You give him money to go back to Seyda Neen and on his way to the docks he is assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood for having contact with you as a person of interest.

[Yeti]

Maybe I'm not getting it, but why would the Dark Brotherhood kill him for having contact with the player? Out of all the people the player meets on Vvardenfell, why him?

I personally would prefer just having the player meet up with Vodunius in Narsis. Have some special dialogue with him telling the player how his fortunes have been in the city, and maybe implement a low-key follow-up quest. Using him in a sensational lead-in to our lands strike me as putting too much focus on a bit character.

[Why]

Wait, this was actually a serious idea? Hm.

[Haplo]

Maybe I'm not getting it, but why would the Dark Brotherhood kill him for having contact with the player? Out of all the people the player meets on Vvardenfell, why him?

Because when the Dark Brotherhood attacks the player, Vodunius Nuccius is with him. It's really just a plot device to get Vodunius Nuccius killed in front of the player.

[Sload]

all kinds of sad shit should happen to that guy cuz hes super unlucky

[Tes96]

An idea we thought up on IRC for new players would have Vodunius Nuccius at some undetermined point forcegreet you with his line about wanting to make it to the mainland, and offer to travel with you. So you go on foot to the nearest point with the least distance between Vvardenfell and the Mainland and "set up camp for the night" or there's an inn there or something. And if you have Tribunal.esm activated, then when you sleep, assassins appear and kill Vodunius Nuccius while you are frozen, and then once he dies, you are unfrozen and they attack you.

But I like this idea better. You give him money to go back to Seyda Neen and on his way to the docks he is assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood for having contact with you as a person of interest.

Awww, poor Vodunius. He seems so sincere and such a sweet man. I would make love to him all night, for free, even. But this idea you have is very intriguing and sounds like it would be an exciting quest. I love travel quests with other NPCs. Too bad the AI is so lousy.
Well I very much look forward to seeing all of these NPCs on the mainland. I hope you guys include these vanilla NPCs' locations in the TR Readme file for those of us who want to go directly to them to try out the quests with them. Although it would be way more fun to stumble upon these folks coincidentally.

[Gez]

And if you have Tribunal.esm activated, then when you sleep, assassins appear and kill Vodunius Nuccius while you are frozen

I really, really hate this kind of things. Having the player frozen and unable to do anything just so that he doesn't disrupt scripting.

You want the player unable to intervene? Then put a real reason for that. Like he's behind a wall and can only see what happens through a small window or something. But the "excuse me, buddy, the script said you had to die so I was just sitting on my butt waiting for the assassins to kill you" bothers me enormously. It breaks immersion and is a shoddy solution.

You want the DB to attack him while he's camping with the player? Fine. But let the player act. If it means he can survive the assault, then it's great. It's not like the integrity of TR depends on the death of a more-or-less irrelevant NPC.

[roerich]

I would make love to him all night, for free, even.

wut

[Gnomey]

My suggestion: give him 2 hp, so that the Dark Brotherhood is almost guaranteed to one-shot him. If the player still somehow saves him, he trips and falls down, killing him. Or a Daedra appears from Oblivion to personally do the deed.

[Gez]

Those silly things would only be legitimate only if it is incredibly important that he dies.

And it isn't. He's a minor third-string character. He doesn't matter in any way in the greater picture. He has no relevance. His life or death has no importance. That means his death has no importance.

I don't see why we should bother coming up with contrived ways to kill him. It's pointless and unlike anything else in the game.

[Why]

This is not a serious discussion.

[Tes96]

Those silly things would only be legitimate only if it is incredibly important that he dies.

And it isn't. He's a minor third-string character. He doesn't matter in any way in the greater picture. He has no relevance. His life or death has no importance. That means his death has no importance.

I don't see why we should bother coming up with contrived ways to kill him. It's pointless and unlike anything else in the game.

I agree with Gez in that there should be choices to save him or let him be killed. I would like to have him as a companion, even though he would probably be killed by bandits or monsters rather easily.

@Roerich, my character is an aspiring Psijic who takes up prostitution while in Morrowind. A Dark Elf girl has to make a living somehow, right? There's just something about Vodunius that is deliciously decadent. Or perhaps I'm just not quite right in the head. :p

@Why, well "serious" is a point of view. However, is the TR team keeping a log of which NPCs they will have enabled on the mainland? That was pretty much what I wanted to know when I started this topic.

[Not]

I'm not sure about the whole DB idea at all, but whatever works I guess. As for all these NPCs that travel to the mainland, yes, I can say with 100% certainty that if you choose the choice allowing them to flee to the mainland, you will see them again. We are planning on doing that.

[Haplo]

And if you have Tribunal.esm activated, then when you sleep, assassins appear and kill Vodunius Nuccius while you are frozen

I really, really hate this kind of things. Having the player frozen and unable to do anything just so that he doesn't disrupt scripting.

You want the player unable to intervene? Then put a real reason for that. Like he's behind a wall and can only see what happens through a small window or something. But the "excuse me, buddy, the script said you had to die so I was just sitting on my butt waiting for the assassins to kill you" bothers me enormously. It breaks immersion and is a shoddy solution.

You want the DB to attack him while he's camping with the player? Fine. But let the player act. If it means he can survive the assault, then it's great. It's not like the integrity of TR depends on the death of a more-or-less irrelevant NPC.

Now I know how Sload feels when he makes a big post about the future of our project and I respond about a typo.

How or why the player is unable to save Vodunius is not important; only that he is unable to do so. I just chose "frozen" as the easiest explanation for what I meant.

[Gez]

How or why the player is unable to save Vodunius is not important; only that he is unable to do so.

Why.

[Haplo]

Because the goal of even doing anything with Vodunius Nuccius is tragedy. The player has to act in order to help him leave the island of Vvardenfell, so through the player's actions, the player has to know that they were a major cog, if not the main cog, in the machine that ends up killing Vodunius. It's the perfect opportunity for linking the vanilla game to TR and including some classic tragedy.

[Vocal Lurker]

I am sorry to interrupt, but I so vehemently disagree with your idea Haplo that I had to log in to tell you that I think it is terrible.


As a Tamriel Rebuilt administrator you should realise the danger of putting your pet-project ideas on a pedestal above feedback. In a more general sense, the more excellent and striking and unique you believe your idea is, the more likely it is to be complete bunk that should be judiciously edited out. Script writers in the nascent years of Hollywood (the 1920s and 30s) called it "murdering your darlings".


Please listen to your respective departmental heads who agree with me (but are, of course, too polite to say).

[rot]

Vocal Lurker - to clarify some understandable confusion, an admin giving an opinion is exactly that: an admin giving an opinion, not an executive decision.

In other words don't worry, Haplo doesn't make the quests

[Katze]

I say let Vodunius Nuccius live. Poor fellow has had enough problems in his life, just let him be a minor character making a small living in Narsis if he has to appear anywhere.

He does say that he plans to leave Morrowind after getting to Narsis, though.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

I am sorry to interrupt, but I so vehemently disagree with your idea Haplo that I had to log in to tell you that I think it is terrible.

...

Possibly the single most hilarious, stupid and inexplicable interjection I have ever read on the entire internet. Bravo, sir.

[Haplo]

[...]

Thanks for exercising the privilege of voicing your opinion. I'll be sure to give absolutely zero fucks about it.

Archived because this thread is so asinine.