Holidays Across Tamriel

[Lord Berandas]

Hello guys, I am in a need for scholarship...

I intent to create a mod, that would add holidays into Skyrim, Cyrodiil and Morrowind. This idea originated on [url=http://shotn.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=5831&sid=64b5595dec9eb0660211e4a83411c0bb#p5831]SHotN[/url] forums, where I started my research. Here's a little clarification of my ideas:

Initial research - what holidays are celebrated on what days and in which way. Personally I believe that having all the holidays and celebrations defined, would add another missing piece of lore. (characters could refer to holidays in their dialogues, books and so on)
I took a lot of things from Daggerfall, from where holidays can be divided by the races celebrating them. There are mostly Redguard and Breton holidays, one Dunmer (Hogithum) and the rest is celebrated throughout the Tamriel. As for the Nords, I got only the Feast of the Dead. So I need much more holidays for various events on various places and it has to as much lore as possible.

Visual Celebration - this is the main part of the mod, it aims on creating a holiday atmosphere by adding items, such as candles, flowers, or barbs above doors, garlands, feasts, spiritual signs and statues, ..., that would appear only during these days, appearing as there is really something extraordinary going on.

Dialogues and other demonstrations - in this part, new dialogues and scripts are added to NPCs to properly respond during these holidays. People celebrate and talk about celebrations, temples offers free healing, shops offers discounts, taverns free beds, all the stuff that is present in the holiday's descriptions. At this moment I am not entirely sure about current MW's capabilities to fulfill all these things, but at least first two parts can be done.


So, what I need from you now - thnik about what occasions could people celebrate, why and in which way.

To every holiday we have to think of:
- what's it's name and what it represents
- when is it celebrated (day of the year)
- where is it celebrated (in whole province/in certain city, in people's homes, taverns, temples, townsquares, streets ...)
- how is it celebrated (if people just feast, or offer their services cheap, if they bring offerings, if they're fasting, or if they put religious statue in front of their houses, and stuff like that)

what do people celebrate?
- natural events (end of winter, end of summer, longest day, first planting or last harvest)
- divines (holiday that belongs directly to one aedra or daedra, in DF they could be summoned only at this day)
- historical events (plagues, military victories, emperor birthdays) - these are usually more local
- unnatural events (days when undead or evil spirits comes out, curses and magical things happens) - these could also be more local

Well, let me know what you think of all this.

[Gez]

I presume you're already aware of [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Calendar#Holidays]this page[/url]? It should contain all the holidays and Daedric summoning days from Arena onwards. (When you see descriptions with 'provinceName' in italics, it's that it was taken verbatim from Arena.)

[Lord Berandas]

Yes, I'm using all previously known (Arena and Daggerfall) holidays as a base.

I was thinking about possible dunmer holidays, since Morrowind is highly religious country, it would make sense if there will be a lot of celebration about Tribunal and it's events. Things like Day of Mercy (day of Almalexia), Day of Mastery (day of Vivec), Day of Mystery (day of Sotha Sil), some holiday about founding the Tribunal perhaps? Day celebrating the defeat of Dagoth Ur by the Nerevarine, which would be celebrated next year from the day you killed him. What else could dunmer celebrate?

Except all that I would dedicate to each dunmer diety one day, when it would be celebrated. (would this make sense, or do they fully worship the Tribunal only?)

Also there are other holiday, celebrated in most parts of the Tamriel. These are usually connected to some natural event. (end of winter, first crop, ...) These are taken from original DF list and have their certain dates and all the required background.

New Life Festival
South Wind's Prayer
Heart's Day
First Planting
Jester's Day
Second Planting
Mid Year Celebration
Merchants's Festival
Sun's Rest
Harvest's End
Tales and Tallows
Witches's Festival
The Emperor's Birthday
Warriors Festival
North Wind's Prayer
Old Life Festival

[Melchior Dahrk]

I wouldn't have a celebration surrounding the formation of the Tribunal. According to the current timeline (ignoring any heretical texts/accounts) they've been around forever.

Most of the Dunmer deities already have special days which you could utilize: their summoning days; since they are nearly all Daedra (aside from Nerevar [who isn't a deity, but one of the Saints], the Tribunal, and Lorkhan). I find the inclusion of Lorkhan in the Dunmer list of deities to be pretty awesome. The Dunmer are one of the few elves who align with Lorkhan.

[Lord Berandas]

Okay, so no Tribunal related holidays, how about gods (AlmSiVi) themselves, since they are ascended mortals, they have to have birthdays, or not? I saw some mentions about Vivec's birthday.
Would people of Vivec celebrate him stopping the moon from hitting the city?

As for the summoning days of various daedra, those are mostly ones that are not worshipped commonly in Morrowind, or am I wrong?
These are the major dieties: Almalexia, Azura, Boethiah, (Dagoth Ur), Lorkhan, Malacath, Mehrunes Dagon, Mephala, Molag Bal, Nerevar, Sheogorath, Sotha Sil, Vivec. Right?

Would people of Morrowind celebrate Almalexia's victory over Mehrunes Dagon? or some other events? Would they celebrate that Emperor's birthday day, since it's more of an imperial holiday than their own.

I also added days for all the saints who are patrons of various classes. (St. Olms, Delyn, Felms ...)

How about some local celebrations of events on the mainland? You know more mainland lore than me.

[Numenorean]

This may be interesting - from the old interview with Serjo Relds (http://www.imperial-library.info/content/interviews-alvur-relds):

Do your people celebrate any festivities along with the rest of Tamriel (such as Jester's Day, Second Planting, etc...)? In either case, what sort of celebrations might I witness if I were to visit a Dunmer town?

Alvur Relds: Well, sir, you won't see any carrying on like you West folk. Not in public, and not much in private either, sir. Cutting up the fool like you West folk, drinking and carrying on... well, beggin your pardon, sir, but it just doesn't seem proper. And I think it's the merchants mostly that worship at your cult festivals, if you don't mind my saying so. We take our holy days very seriously. Triune -- what you folk celebrate as New Life -- we sit all day at Temple listening to the lay fellows reading lessons from the lives of the saints. Holidays are more a duty than a frolic. Ancestor's Day is a pleasant reunion around the clan hearth -- comfortable with friends and family, quiet, and respectful of the hearth spirits -- good foods and small gifts. That's Tales and Tallows for you folk, and all your superstitious nonsense about evil spirits and ghosts.

There you go!

[Lord Berandas]

Exactly the sort of information I need. Very helpful, thanks, Numenorean.

I also started creating some dunmer religious objects tonigh, will post screenshots later.

In the meantime you can examine my list of all holidays [url=http://www.mediafire.com/view/abzg5a7zcauac88/Holidays_Across_Tamriel.xls]here[/url].

[Melchior Dahrk]

So what is your plan for implementing these holidays? Many holidays which are prevalent throughout Tamriel may be discouraged in Morrowind even now, after the Imperial occupation.

For instance, in most Dunmer settlements, New Life Festival is probably not recognized as a holiday since the Dunmer are busy being pious for Triune. Outlanders in those settlements may participate in private reverie. And outlander barkeeps may still offer free liquor, but that's as far as it'd go methinks. Now, settlements like Pelagiad, Caldera, or Dagon Fel might have more open celebration on that day, with the few Dunmer residents closing their doors to attempt to ignore the raucous heathens.

I have a feeling that this sort of thing may be true for many of the other holidays which are celebrated in the "whole of Tamriel;" the Dunmer may have their own interpretation of each continental holiday.

For a silly example: Heart's Day, as celebrated by other Tamriellans may be viewed as wasteful by Dunmer and what care they for the "Lovers." Instead, on this day, the Dunmer celebrate Trivia (terrible name, I know) - a day of sensibility where incomplete Dunmer proverbs (see [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Book_of_Dawn_and_Dusk]The Book of Dawn and Dusk[/url]) are distributed at the city gates and in temples by Temple Initiates. Celebrants are encouraged to complete the proverbs either from their own knowledge or by inquiring with a priest (new dialogue about "proverbs of ALMSIVI"). Completed sheets are often accepted at tribunal shrines as payment for free healing.

[Lord Berandas]

Great, thanks for contributing.
I was already thinking about dunmer not celebrating western holidays, but then would stay only few holidays left. so I focused on creating some fictional ones, dedicated mostly to the saints, or some partialy dunmer, partialy western. Check out the updated [url=http://www.mediafire.com/view/abzg5a7zcauac88/Holidays_Across_Tamriel.xls]sheet[/url].

edit:
Would house Hlaalu be more well-disposed towards imperial holidays?
Do ashlanders worship the same gods as other dunmer?

[Melchior Dahrk]

edit:
Would house Hlaalu be more well-disposed towards imperial holidays?
Do ashlanders worship the same gods as other dunmer?

Yes, Hlaalu are brown-nosing progressivists. They'd be more likely to celebrate Imperial sanctioned Holidays.

Ashlanders practice ancestor worship, IIRC, daedra are thrown in there as well... they won't recognize them as the House of Trouble and the Anticipations though.

[Gez]

Yes, Hlaalu are brown-nosing progressivists.

Tell that to Orvas Dren and the Cammona Tong. Through the CT, House Hlaalu is the biggest ally of the Sixth House...

Hlaalu is a divided house. They have slavers and abolitionists, "imperialists" and indepentists. Often, the same family will feature both: Duke Vedam Dren is pro-Empire and progressive (and his daughter Ilmeni is even more so, since she's abolitionist), but his brother Orvas is the Cammona Tong kingpin. Another example, [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Galyn_Arvel]Galyn Arvel[/url] works for the Twin Lamps while Rovone Arvel [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Arvel_Plantation]owns slaves[/url]. [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Odral_Helvi]Some Hlaalu[/url] are corrupt while [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Crassius_Curio]others[/url] fight against corruption.

Reducing House Hlaalu to a bunch of brown-noser is robing them of their depth by reducing them to a single stereotype. What they really have in common is that they are ambitious and have the ability to adapt quickly enough to seize any opportunity that arises from changes. Doesn't mean they necessarily like the changes, but they can roll with them anyway.

[Gnomey]

Ashlanders focus on ancestor worship, though they also worship the Daedra. Morrowind gave me the impression that the Daedra worship was largely done in cults and through ceremonies, rather than in their day-to-day lives; Ashlander camps have no temples, and there is no indication that they visit Daedric shrines, other than for shelter in the case of the Ahemmusa camp.

I don't really see Ashlanders sharing common holidays. Each tribe might have certain special days, such as the death-days of their greatest Ashkhans and Wisewomen. I'd imagine those days would involve a -- maybe -- public ceremony of the wise woman, a bit of prayer, and then the Ashlanders going back to their huts and being even more quiet than they usually are. There might be a few vision holidays, though, where the Ashlanders more-or-less get themselves high on ash or something and wander about the camp in communion with their ancestors.

As to the Hlaalu and Western holidays, they might put up a facade of celebrating them, but not much beyond that. In real world terms, they might set up Christmas lights outside their houses, maybe even set up some of those wire reindeer and get a Christmas tree, but in the end they'd just go about their day as usual. Though there would be a few exceptions who celebrate along with the Westerners.

[Lord Berandas]

I didn't intend to create any holidays or celebrations for ashlanders, at least not yet. I was just asking, but I think I am going to make house Hlaalu celebrating most of the western holidays, while other dunmer would celebrate only those which are related to nature, such as First and Second Planting, Mid Year, Harvest's End, North's and South's Winds Prayers...and also their own holidays ofcourse.

[Gnomey]

I didn't intend to create any holidays or celebrations for ashlanders, at least not yet.

That's probably a wise approach.

I'm also not sure whether Dunmer are that likely to observe harvest festivals like First Seed and Second Planting; Dres, Indoril and Hlaalu largely might, as they possess extensive plantations. However, Dunmer largely rely on herding, especially in the harsher areas of Morrowind.

Those are just my interpretations, though.

Morrowind and the more conservative Argonian portions of Black Marsh are probably the least conforming parts of Tamriel in term of holiday celebration. Their cultures are too isolated and their habitats too alien to be able to cleanly adopt Imperial customs, at least by one interpretation.

As the subject of TES holidays hasn't been elaborated upon too much, especially not since Daggerfall, there is broad room for interpretation; for Argonians celebrations could be tied to the Hist -- Argonians also apparently have trouble with Western concepts of time, making observation of annual holidays unlikely, outside of cities -- for instance, but the situation could also be far more mundane without necessarily being any worse.

[Lord Berandas]

Okay, so if we divide dunmer into categories...

Ashlanders - ancestor worship (not implementing anything here)
Redoran - would celebrate dunmer holidays
Hlaalu - would celebrate most of the imperial-related holidays, general holidays and dunmer holidays
Telvanni - would celebrate dunmer holidays
Indoril - would celebrate general holidays and dunmer holidays
Dres - would celebrate general holidays and dunmer holidays

The celebrations would be taking place only in dunmer cities, temples and shrines, I am not going to implement any other celebrations, such as nordic ones that could take place in Dagon Fel or things like that.
About the names of my fictional dunmer holidays, if you have some idea for better, more suitable names, let me know.

Also I would like to ask, when is redguard holiday "Chil'a" celebrated? Some sources says, it's on 20th Evening Star, some 21th Evening Star and some says even 24th Evening Star. What date is correct, or is this celebrated in various days, depending on the location?

[Melchior Dahrk]

If you want to really separate them out and stereotype them, the Telvanni would probably ignore most Dunmer holidays except maybe the really ancient, occult ones.

[Gnomey]

Ashlanders - ancestor worship (not implementing anything here)
Redoran - would celebrate dunmer holidays
Hlaalu - would celebrate most of the imperial-related holidays, general holidays and dunmer holidays
Telvanni - would celebrate dunmer holidays
Indoril - would celebrate general holidays and dunmer holidays
Dres - would celebrate general holidays and dunmer holidays

Sounds good to me.

As to Chil'a, going by the UESP link different dates for different locations sounds good. For the 20/21 date question, though, it could be a nightly celebration like New Years, which can be attributed to either date.

[Lord Berandas]

Great! Any ideas for some local celebrations based on historical or unnatural events? For both Vvardenfell and mainland cities.
example: Othroktide - The people of Dwynnen have a huge party to celebrate Othroktide, the day when Baron Othrok took Dwynnen from the undead forces who claimed it in the Battle of Wightmoor.

[Lord Berandas]

Well, it took some time, but I just released the first version of my holiday mod. Take a [url=http://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/43131/?]look[/url].

[Ironed Maidens]

Impressive, I'm going to DL it when I get home. Grats on the release!