Future of the model/texture department

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:17 am

I think we needed to deliberate a bit more on needed concept art for the models before we opened claims for them.

Mwgek · Post by **Mwgek** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:42 pm

We have no Concept Artists, so there will be no new claims added? This seems to be the main issue with the inactivity towards 3d in TR. Maybe set up claims in text format or refuel CA forum with real focussed threads. At this rate we will reach Map 6 with nothing but retextures and sloppy resources.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:55 pm

How about letting modelers have a go without concept art? We're not reinventing the wheel, and all our current modelers are very knowledgeable about what is expected.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:12 pm

Nemon wrote:How about letting modelers have a go without concept art? We're not reinventing the wheel, and all our current modelers are very knowledgeable about what is expected.

While I get where you're coming from (no concept art means faster turnover), I have intuitive concerns regarding the idea.

For one, it's basically the same thing we're doing now and that's exactly what we're doing now.

Secondly, actually having concept art can be very inspiring for modelers to want to model something. We're trying to attract fresh blood if possible.

Finally, art means a modeler has an objective standard to live up and to be criticized by. Without it, feedback quickly becomes a back-and-forth volley of "I imagined it a bit differently" which can become very frustrating for a modeler, especially a beginner. The worst thing would be to end up with a large supply of half-finished abandoned models.

Post by **rot** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:17 am

Idea for Dres interior prop: small home shrines. They got rid of oblivion door rooms and the like, sure, and the bones are all in tombs / ghostgate, but would make no sense to have NOTHING left. Something small that fits on (or the size of) a table, chinese-style. A structure still raw at the bottom, progressively carved from the top, with three claws or something above for the good daedra? Or something simple, a miniature concentric stadium of stairs and candles or small figurines? (edit: pic of that) Or a stylised family tree that'd look like [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/DeerAntlersLyd2.png]antlers[/url] piled up totem-pole style?

Hard to imagine but it has potential. Especially as a modular shrine set, with something like a dozen small pieces. Would be an easy way to make each dwelling unique, give an idea of how old a family branch is...

Also, chibi (not scaled-down vanilla models...) statues of Boethiah/Mephala/Azura.

gro-Dhal · Post by **gro-Dhal** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:24 am

I hope the only reason that hasn't been mentioned yet is because we're taking it for granted that something like that will be made.

Idea: each shrine contains some sort of family treasure (value proportional to the wealth of the House) enchanted like those goodies in Daedric ruins. If you try to steal it then an Ancestor Ghost or worse appears to make your life difficult.

Post by **rot** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:40 am

gro-Dhal wrote:I hope the only reason that hasn't been mentioned yet is because we're taking it for granted that something like that will be made.

I assumed so, but a more explicit list would be better to inspire concept artists, get the ball rolling etc-

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:54 pm

gro-Dhal wrote:I hope the only reason that hasn't been mentioned yet is because we're taking it for granted that something like that will be made.

Idea: each shrine contains some sort of family treasure (value proportional to the wealth of the House) enchanted like those goodies in Daedric ruins. If you try to steal it then an Ancestor Ghost or worse appears to make your life difficult.

Do it.

Post by **rot** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:24 am

On critters,
looking at the [url=http://ressources.wiwiland.net/spip.php?article13]wiwiland farm animals resource[/url]: only the goat could be useful. Model is good, idle animation is good, but the walking animation would need to be fixed. If that's possible (I don't know if its skeleton allows a good walking animation), there are many possible ways to make it more interesting (scale it up, give it a third horn, mix the male and female models)

For future reference: the mod GIANTS has nothing useful, except the Scorpion which is already in the "Creatures (numeral)" mod. (spider's also decent but... it's a spider, so no)

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:05 am

Rats wrote:As far as new critters go I suggest we make use of the existing modders' resources of the modding community. I'm especially fond of this [url=http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=9499]Antares' Hill Giant[/url] which would be just awesome in the Skyrim-Morrowind borderlands walking alongside herds of hoom. Also, for Deshaan we could retexture these nice [url=http://planetelderscrolls.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Mods.Detail&id=7399]Guar variants by lidicus[/url].

Did we ever make the striped guar of the Deshaan?

rot wrote:On critters,
For future reference: the mod GIANTS has nothing useful, except the Scorpion which is already in the "Creatures (numeral)" mod. (spider's also decent but... it's a spider, so no)

Ahah, yes, good old pumaman. Giants had the merit of showing adding creatures was possible.

A creature I've wanted to see for a long time would be a living, animated version of the little saddled lizard you can find in Morrowind Advanced.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:53 pm

A few really quick sketches of shrines based on the velothi style. Anything here worth pursuing?

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:57 pm

Looks nice!

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:03 pm

The table version is great! It could also fit in little niches in homes where the full-size triolith would take too much space.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:59 am

I like them all. Nice variety of designs, Lady N.

Post by **rot** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:20 pm

I know we're all too used to scorpions to even notice how inherently awesome they are, but reminder: [url=http://piratesretreat.webs.com/C8Scorpions.gif]the one in PL's Creatures[/url] is quite nice.

and honestly, it's a better Shalk than the shalk. If someone with the know-how could take a look at it and point out what needs fixing (the running animation is rather skateboardy, but everything else seems fine to me)... it probably wouldn't take much work for it to be usable, assuming permissions are OK (surprisingly [url=http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=hakpaks.detail&id=2356]adapted from a NWN resource[/url] so should be)

Extracted for your convenience:

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:34 pm

Look's a tad mundane to me. Morrowind's creatures are mostly alien forms with no direct real life counterparts. Pirate Lord's scorpion, which I'm sure is a quality model technically, doesn't appear to have much that distinguishes it as a fantasy creature. Over-sized versions of existing real world animal or insects don't make for interesting additions to a fantasy world in my opinion. This is especially true for one as surreal and unique as Morrowind.

Post by **rot** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:50 pm

A very good point, which brings to attention the fact that all TR insect critters save for the parastylus are exactly that - scaled-up, boring RL insects. The vanilla shalk is also extremely generic [url=http://morroblivion.com/forums/skyrim/skywind-development/4454]compared to its concept art[/url]. So giant scorpions would go in the "far from ideal, but better than what we have" category - a placeholder of sorts.

Mwgek · Post by **Mwgek** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:51 am

I want to ask this again. In the future there are more new models used in the tr_data and actually placed in the cs without a proper review. I get the feeling we just chunk up everything that looks new with no regards to quality. Since TR made pretty good steps on the quality checks of exteriors/interiors and npcs. Why not try for the same quality for the models.

Once new "bad" models gets placed in the exterior/interior claims it becomes very hard to fix anything. Since it would normally take some change in the geometry.

Best example are the ugly trees used in the Indoril lands. We can really change them now since that would cause bugs all over the claims, but we can prevent this in the future by making a list somewhere what gets used in the near future so I, or someone else, can check and update the models.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:08 pm

Oh, that's a new item on the to-do list: a shalk that actually looks like the CA.

Mwgek, this would be best handled using trac. In the current state of affairs, models appear in various places all over the forum, and then get added to Data when someone has nagged Haplo about it for long enough. Quality control isn't easy to add to this... workflow.

Post by **rot** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:44 pm

These are the HD shalk variants from "[url=http://fullrest.ru/uploads/screens/31_6031_3fc13a81e133f134c3eb6af4d721a130.jpg]Better Creatures Suit[/url]" ([url=http://fullrest.ru/uploads/screens/31_6031_5e1c899f5d5d358ce076123f81c0313c.jpg]sic[/url])

Don't think they'd be very useful even resized (no, not the obligatory WTF multicoloured one either) nor how to contact them otherwise, but do take a look. Big one's nice, tho its limbs are disjointed...

Post by **Swiftoak** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:51 pm

We do have an Objects claim system in place that seldom gets used so I don't know how effective that might be in the assurance of quality.

Perhaps we can do with a hybrid system. Stuff like simple retextures and stuff can be done informally outside the system (though would still need a review), while more imporant things like tilesets and new meshes should be filed under the claims system and be subjected to a thorough review process.

This will be of greater importance once we reach Releases 7/8 where the ratio of new assets:reused ones will be much greater than ever before.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:15 am

When browsing the official modding forums one does get the idea that we are currently lagging behind when it comes to model quality, as per Mwgek's comment in the telvanni thread recently. Face count, texture quality and composure is way higher in recent overhaul mods than in some of our work. I think it is understandable; we have kept old texture resolution standards for quite some time and focused on not over stressing the cpu/gpu. Modding vanilla MW is quite different because it's mostly an individual approach, not many are involved in large scale projects. Also, modeling for TR has been, historically, not an easy task. We lack a proper method, obviously, since our model output is so small. Mwgek is currently busy with the Dres set (which is turning out brilliant), other than that we have a bunch of model claims in the hands of a modder who hasn't logged in in months. That is not good enough.

I mentioned in the telvanni thread the following:

fixing the "diamondy" shape of the current othreleth shrooms bodies to something more organic and random, as well as the texture of it - from vertex shaded yellow to texture colored yellow. The next area of interest is the othreleth woods, southern thirr and southern velothi mountains (south of Kragenm a/oo r). Combining my earlier point of the fix*+retexture of the snow cliffs with the fixing of the othreleth mushroom body and reviewing the liberumavis WIP mushroom flora pieces ([url=http://i.imgur.com/ecygoGrh.jpg]these)[/url] and including them in data.

*"fix" as in making it more "bumpy" on top instead of the flat-ish thing it is now. Snow versions to remain smooth naturally.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:23 am

Perhaps we could post a list of stuff we would like modeled in a separate thread on the forums and see if we get any biters? Naturally, this would bypass our showcase procedure, but I think the modelers who hang out in the Morrowind mod section these days are talented enough to make this a non-issue.

Post by **rot** » Sun Sep 15, 2013 10:12 pm

[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=316518#316518]Regarding recruitment,[/url] I think a good recruitment post will need: (aside from obvious general info & links to mod screenshots)

- a few specific examples of what TR currently has:
models: [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=316035#316035]Dres set[/url], [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23619]various props[/url] [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=316362#316362]from beth CA[/url], the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24049&highlight=hoom]Hoom[/url]...
art: [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=312716#312716]seancruz[/url], some art that's been used for plant models ([url=http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2600/mushroomplants.jpg]othreleth[/url]), the [url=http://imageshack.us/a/img138/3103/nixhoundmountcopy2.png]nix-mount[/url], the [url=http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/9232/longleggedvelkspeedycop.png]velk[/url], old awesome art from Myzel ([url=http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7169/trindorilwarrior.jpg]Indoril warrior[/url], many more at the bottom of [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=253419#253419]this post[/url])

- specific examples of models TR needs:
models there's already concept art for: Velk female, Shalk [url=http://forum.wiwiland.net/uploads/gallery/album_2/gallery_14104_2_5469.jpg]from beth CA[/url], skyrender...
and a healthy backlog of less detailed ones if enough modellers bite,
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=302992#302992](animated?) skyrender nests[/url]
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/download.php?id=21437]Small velothi shrines?[/url]
maybe this [url=http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1060/dresco.jpg]Dres robe? (Myzel)[/url]

- concept art TR needs:
- Argon jungle: ambient CA, props
- [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=313793#313793]Argonian and Slave clutter[/url]
???
maybe props for the ash swamp, [url=http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Lutemoth/Culture/ashswamp.jpg]or is this enough?[/url]
???
Deshaan: ambient CA (rocks and colours, see OP), don't forget [url=http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3467/deshaan1.jpg]those two[/url] , [url=http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/2926/deshaan2.jpg]pieces from Myzel[/url]
???
- Dres interiors (fitting MWGek's exts, concepts and pieces, possibly some more inspiration in [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22209&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0]this thread[/url]?)
???
- Dres farming props and ambients?
- Dres irrigation system, [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=308930#308930]though that could probably be figured out from IRL material[/url]
???

There is a list in this thread's OP, but it needs to be updated and organised for this purpose (what already has functional concepts, what would need them very soon...)