House Redoran, writeup and story proposal

[Lady Nerevar]

...in general, I found the settlements rather lacking in comparison to the very detailed landscapes.

That is the nature of this being WIP. Landscapes won't change much but settlements will - during the story making stages and NPCing.

Figured as much.

As for interiors-as-exteriors, wtf is up with what was formerly known as Reich Parkeep?

I like Gez's bridge, and agree with his point.

If I may shove my ass into the UV settlement discussion for a moment, based on screenshots alone:

Strond: Could lose 5 interiors easy. It seems a bit strange to me to have such a large established Nord settlement in the area, frankly, unless it's literally 3 cells from the Skyrim border (I don't know if it is). It's disputed land, sure, but this isn't a small village that the Dunmer could ignore or the Nords let be surrounded by foreign land.
"tba": cut the three buildings in front of the temple, move temple up.
Mandul and Gargen Hu'ul: look good based on screenshots.

I agree with Sload that this would be a good area for remote, small locations, and would demote the rest of the planed settlements to that (3-5 interiors each at maximum). Perhaps add unique loot attractions to make these worthwhile. For example, a remote outpost for hunters that sells some especially good fur armor.

[Haplo]

Sorry but it's the truth. They're cobbled together from interior meshes, aren't they? It makes about as much sense as building a highway with carpets.

Just the fact that they are square, flat and angular while everything else in the landscape is smooth, round, and organic should be enough to tell that Redoran exts and Redoran ints don't mix.

Look at the sleek curve of the Redoran watch tower. Now cut out the little observation platform on top of it, and rotate it 90 so the about-flat part is on top. Mirror it. You have a beautiful bow-shaped curve on the bottom that looks how a Redoran bridge ought to look. Soft organic curves, with a weathered texture: that's a Redoran ext piece.

Allow me this absolutely ridiculous mockup improvised in MSPaint-like fashion:
[url=http://imgur.com/kWlqLR0][img]http://i.imgur.com/kWlqLR0l.jpg[/img][/url]

Sorry but you are wrong. "Cobbled together" would describe your bridge, not Nemon's bridge. Nemon's bridge is snapped-to-grid, fits perfectly without having to bleed a bunch of different types of meshes together, etc. The straight-line bridges look much better, far less moddy than your example, and adds a refreshing contrast to the endless curves.

Now if we could get back to the topic at hand, which is the size of the settlements, and not their aesthetic design, that'd be great.

[Sload]

After the digression about bridges, this wasn't resolved. It remains my opinion that it would be optimal for the mod to replace the remaining settlements with an appropriate number of independent, rural/frontier locations that are not townlike.

[Nemon]

I'll just repeat myself, since I think that correlated with what you meant by reducing the interior count and impact:

I guess a few settlements can be reduced, example Maelkar's outpost. Which could turn into just that, an outpost without anything special to offer besides being an observation point. (4-5 houses gone, redoran tower remains to serve as outpost)

Mandul serves a purpose, being the largest lumber resource in a special geographical location with a different climate than the rest of the area due to volcanic activity. It is also a great piece of work.

Shneif and tba could easily be reduced into a couple of fisherman's huts since it is still a WIP in its early stages. (approx 8-9 interiors gone, few remains)

Kalstet was considered a final trading post before entering Skyrim. Shouldn't be more than 2-3 houses imo. (mini stop along the northern main road to Skyrim)

[Sload]

Why are we just repeating ourselves at each other?

The problem isn't so much the int count as the way they're organized as township-settlements. It would be better imo if this had more of a frontier feel by scattering the ints in the remaining claims as defensive outposts, chitin & fur trapper camps, independent farms and homesteads, so on.

[Gez]

Are there any Imperial Legion Forts in Redoran lands?

I was thinking that if there were a "Blacklight Legion Fort" somewhat near Ban Malur (something sized like Moonmoth or Buckmoth), then it'd be a much more satisfying retcon than going with "oh, imperials just call it that way (despite not doing the same thing to any other city, even Seyda Neen)".

I'm sure even Beth would approve, what with Fort Sutch in Oblivion and Fort Snowhawk in Skyrim.

The empire would buy such a fort to complete their control of the Inner Sea (along with Firewatch on the eastern side, Old Ebonheart on the south near the mouth of the Thirr, and New Ebonheart on Vvardenfell) and also for the same reason they built Fort Buckmoth, Fort Moonmoth, and Wolverine Hall near Ald'ruhn, Balmora, and Sadrith Mora.


As for the Uld Vraech thing, I'd say cut tba and Shneif entirely. Kalstet becomes a Thirsk-sized trading post/trapper camp. Maelkar's outpost becomes a single tower, and doesn't get to name the exterior cell.

[Nemon]

Shneif shouldn't be entirely cut, as a little fishing settlement at the end of the road makes sense.

[Sload]

I find it really difficult to keep these names straight. Don't want to read a lot into that, but I don't normally have that problem. Indicative, in my opinion, of an overload of settlements.

But I'm reading through your specific suggestions, Nemon, and your justifications for these settlements remaining don't seem like strong arguments against changing their nature as settlements.

Mandul serves a purpose, being the largest lumber resource in a special geographical location with a different climate than the rest of the area due to volcanic activity.

The problem is that what would be appropriate to demonstrate this would be something like 1 or 2 lumber camps, not a town.

Shneif and tba could easily be reduced into a couple of fisherman's huts since it is still a WIP in its early stages. (approx 8-9 interiors gone, few remains)

Why not fisherman's huts in the wilderness?

Kalstet was considered a final trading post before entering Skyrim. Shouldn't be more than 2-3 houses imo. (mini stop along the northern main road to Skyrim)

Why not a trading post?

etc

EDIT: I basically don't see the appropriateness of more than Gargen Huul, Strond, and 1 additional township-setlement of each faction in this region, and think it would be better to replace the remainder with wilderness-settlements in a number greater than the number of townships currently suggested.

[Adanorcil]

I agree on restyling towns in the Uld Vraech. Apart from Gargen Huul and Strond (proposed name was Dunkreath), the other places in the UV don't even exist in my mind's eye except for dots on a map (and even that is fuzzy). I feel the distribution of these towns was never really inspired by a particular vision for the region, but rather just by someone looking at a blank map a long time ago and dotting it with settlements out of some horror vacui.

Most of those so-called settlements can indeed be reduced to cool single interiors. The problem with including some other huts, even just a couple, is that it immediately creates "a town", which is what we want to avoid. (Arguments that it'd be a handful of huts at most are rather moot, since there's not a settlement in the game that has a realistic amount of houses for the size of town it represents.)

[Nemon]

We have no obligations to follow in Bethesda's steps regarding the detailing or population of settlements. That bar has been gently raised. Mandul is, per Gnomey's last WIP - elegant and perfect for the geographical location it resides in, as well as the story we are trying to tell.

Shneif - Head of Stories, Why, had some notes on this, I'll leave it to him to elaborate.

Tba - currently in Aeven's 5-8. Two or three fishing huts spread out over a large area featuring hard to traverse cliffy shores. Will remove settelment-y feeling and add remoteness.

Kalstet, one building featuring a shop and simple services for instance? Think dondril walled, but way smaller and just that one little haven traversing the harsh cold road to Dunm(er)eth Pass.

[Sload]

I feel like you haven't actually responded to the content of our suggestions.

[Yeti]

Like Nemon, I would like to see Mandul kept as it is, but otherwise I fully support reducing the other settlements listed to one int places in the wilderness. Especially the one's that haven't even been made yet.

[Adanorcil]

We have no obligations to follow in Bethesda's steps regarding the detailing or population of settlements.

That's not what Sload is suggesting here, though. In fact, Bethesda doesn't really have a worthwhile precedent for this, possibly since their game wasn't quite big enough for it yet.

If Mandul really remains the only one to break the mold, I suppose it could be an acceptable concession.

[Nemon]

I feel like you haven't actually responded to the content of our suggestions.

But I feel that I kinda have. Then again, I might, now and then, fail to comprehend stuff fully, like that time with the roads in the armun ashlands.

Honestly put, I personally want to keep Mandul as is today, partly because I think that special part of UV deserves a village like that and partly because it's beautiful.

Kalstet, Shneif, tba and Maelkar's outpost?

-Reduce to one trading post (single house)
-unknown (Why- chime in)
-split and spread (2-3 fishing huts in between the cliffs)
-reduce to single tower - respectively.

[Sload]

Gargen Huul and Mandul; Strond and Frankhelm. Plus a bunch of solo wilderness settlements - not 1 for 1 with towns necessarily, but possibly slightly more frequent than the towns are? Does that sound good?

[Rats]

Frakhelm/Frankhelm is not the best name imho, but I'm fond of the name Strond (which in the more recent plans was named Dunkreath, if memory serves). Perhaps Frakhelm could be renamed Strond?

[Yeti]

Gargen Huul and Mandul; Strond and Frankhelm. Plus a bunch of solo wilderness settlements - not 1 for 1 with towns necessarily, but possibly slightly more frequent than the towns are? Does that sound good?

+1

Frakhelm/Frankhelm is not the best name imho, but I'm fond of the name Strond (which in the more recent plans was named Dunkreath, if memory serves). Perhaps Frakhelm could be renamed Strond?

+1

[Adanorcil]

Rats: To Dutch speaking people (of which there are quite a few here), Strond reads as a name for fecal matter.

[arvisrend]

To Russian speaking people, Manda means cunt.

[Lady Nerevar]

Honestly, I'm not convinced that either of those are bad names for Nordic towns in Velothi territory

[Sload]

The only problem with Strond and Frankhelm is that they are the boring sort of Nordic names. One of them should start with Yd, Yf, Yg, Yk, or Ys.

[Gez]

Ygralond

[roerich]

Ygralond

Sounds more like an important place than a backwater forgotten border town, if you ask me. Shorten it perhaps? Ygran. Ygral. Ygrond.

[Rats]

I propose Yngholv.

[Gnomey]

Not sure if I should post here or in the exterior claim, but at worst I'm just performing a bit of necromancy: is there anything more to discuss on Kalstet, or should I replace it with a single-int trading post as discussed above? If so, I'm guessing it's supposed to be a Nordic house.

I'd also sort of like to try putting it in the ruins of a Nordic fort, but I suppose that belongs in the exterior claim.