Quest idea!
Moderator: Lead Developers
Quest idea!
I am planning to brainstorm some misc quests for Almalexia to help with the NPCing process, but for now here is one I've been pondering and chewing over for a while. Thoughts? I'm kind of worried that the reward is OP.
Quest is given in some (non-Telvanni) city. Almalexia is a possibility if there's suitable ints/NPCs.
Cast of characters: One (1) Telvanni wizard who has moved away from Telvanni regions because he wasn't interested in the whole political powerplay thing and just wanted to be left alone with his research - basically a poorer, less high-ranking, less competent version of Baladas Demnevanni. He's working on teleportation magic.
One (1) neighbour (probably reasonably well-off) who is incredibly sick and tired of the explosions, screams and other weird noises at odd hours of the day, never to mention the odd charred thing falling through the chimney and the like.
Outline of quest: You get pointed in the wizard's direction by the neighbour, who wants you to make him LEAVE, peacefully if possible but if not... well, use your discretion! Talking to the wizard, you find that he is already planning to leave once his experiments are completed but won't do so before then: basically, his teleporter prototype can't be moved. He knows the design is flawed and wants to start over somewhere else, but first he wants to wring every last bit of data out of it that he can. What he needs for this is a test subject for the last few runs. Slaves don't work, because it turns out that when you teleport slaves somewhere they just run off instead of coming back (he sounds faintly incredulous about this). Hey, you look like a healthy enough specimen...
What he wants you to do is try out the teleporter and make your way back to him, and do this around four or five times. You must not use any teleportation magic in between using the teleporter and talking to him again, the explanation is slightly magic-technobabble but amounts to you ruining the data he wants to get. The evil variety of this would be actually disabling teleportation magic by script while this is going on (could be explained via him casting a spell on you for the purpose of data-gathering which has that as an intentional side-effect), the less-evil would be to just have a script running that updates the journal to "you failed the teleportation quest" as soon as you use teleportation magic. He swears this experiment is totally harmless, there is no risk, you'll just be teleported to the end of the street. Considering he also says things like "Nobody has exploded in over a week!" you might find this a little dubious.
If you agree: you get treated to a tour of Morrowind's greatest death traps. You are teleported to places along the lines of: out in the middle of nowhere surrounded by hungry durzogs, the depths of a Daedric shrine (possibly while a ritual is going on), the home of a necromancer, the middle of a large lava pool, an underwater grotto with no air bubbles whatsoever, (possibly) Red Mountain, (possibly) Solstheim in the middle of a group of werewolves, etc. At one point you get to do your best Tarhiel impression. The first place he sends you should maybe be barely survivable for a first level character (something along the lines of somewhere where they can't win the fight but can run away), but after that it gets steadily more lethal. Oh yeah, and all of them are absolutely miles away from this guy.
Also, since it'd be a bit unnatural for him to only send you to the northeastern part of the mainland, I imagine that at each stage it randomly chooses from multiple places of a similar level of lethality. This means that when there's a new release, one could just choose a few appropriate new places in the new areas and add them into the script.
Once you've limped your way back to the guy, you find that he doesn't care about the problems you ran into and just goes "What took you so long?" You probably have a choice of around eight different outraged responses to this, all of which he just brushes aside. He also doesn't give you a reward (you might have the option of asking, to which he'll just say something like 'the honour of participating in such ground-breaking research should be its own reward!') and just wants you to try it again.
If you go through with the whole thing: he moves out, as promised, leaving the finished prototype device behind. What this means is that you get a new fast travel option. It should be useful but not *too* useful, possibly sending you to five/six or so remote places scattered around Morrowind (no cities - rather than "Port Telvannis" it'd be something like "a cave in the Telvanni Isles"). No returns, there's no way to get back from the destinations. It might also have a small (2%?) chance of sending you to the wrong place or one of a preset list of random locations, albeit not ones as lethal as the places you ended up previously.
The neighbour gives you no reward, because they're so frustrated with how long you took. It's possible that they went and hired the Morag Tong, and are now angry that they're going to have to try and cancel that. (A way to vary the whole thing would be by having him attacked by the Tong at the very end and you get to choose whether to help him out or stand by and let them kill him/actually help them kill him. Alternately, have his corpse turn up somewhere with a writ lying on it after the end of the quest.)
If you kill him at any point: this is meant to be a very, very tempting option, and is a viable alternate path.
What happens depends on how many of the teleportation subquests you did before killing the guy. For each, the prototype is slightly more useful (1 extra destination, reduced chance of you ending up somewhere random, possibly the random places you end up being less dangerous), and the reward you get from the neighbour is less valuable/useful because you took longer. If you do none of the quests at all and kill him straight away, the prototype might be a "random teleportation" device, or might have only one destination with something like a 50% chance of that going awry, or might just not work at all. You also get something very nice from the neighbour. I'm not sure exactly what... this gets tricky because they shouldn't be too rich, but at the same time you should get *something* that, although not on the same level as a new fast travel option, isn't too many levels below it. Maybe a useful unique enchanted item (heirloom) or the like.
If we go with the less-evil variety, then teleporting during one of the subquests would mean that the wizard refuses to give you any more of them, the only way to finish this quest will be to kill him, and if you do your rewards are worse because the prototype will not count the failed quest (and hence be worse than if you'd succeeded at it), but the neighbour will (and hence give you worse stuff than if you'd never accepted it at all.)
Alternate quest start: It may be possible to start the teleportation quests just by talking to the wizard about his research. In that case, I'd need to work out what happens if you talk to the neighbour while you're doing these - if they still ask you to get rid of him or just view you as an accomplice and don't talk to you at all. Would definitely need to script things so that cool items from the neighbour/useful prototype are either/or.
Quest is given in some (non-Telvanni) city. Almalexia is a possibility if there's suitable ints/NPCs.
Cast of characters: One (1) Telvanni wizard who has moved away from Telvanni regions because he wasn't interested in the whole political powerplay thing and just wanted to be left alone with his research - basically a poorer, less high-ranking, less competent version of Baladas Demnevanni. He's working on teleportation magic.
One (1) neighbour (probably reasonably well-off) who is incredibly sick and tired of the explosions, screams and other weird noises at odd hours of the day, never to mention the odd charred thing falling through the chimney and the like.
Outline of quest: You get pointed in the wizard's direction by the neighbour, who wants you to make him LEAVE, peacefully if possible but if not... well, use your discretion! Talking to the wizard, you find that he is already planning to leave once his experiments are completed but won't do so before then: basically, his teleporter prototype can't be moved. He knows the design is flawed and wants to start over somewhere else, but first he wants to wring every last bit of data out of it that he can. What he needs for this is a test subject for the last few runs. Slaves don't work, because it turns out that when you teleport slaves somewhere they just run off instead of coming back (he sounds faintly incredulous about this). Hey, you look like a healthy enough specimen...
What he wants you to do is try out the teleporter and make your way back to him, and do this around four or five times. You must not use any teleportation magic in between using the teleporter and talking to him again, the explanation is slightly magic-technobabble but amounts to you ruining the data he wants to get. The evil variety of this would be actually disabling teleportation magic by script while this is going on (could be explained via him casting a spell on you for the purpose of data-gathering which has that as an intentional side-effect), the less-evil would be to just have a script running that updates the journal to "you failed the teleportation quest" as soon as you use teleportation magic. He swears this experiment is totally harmless, there is no risk, you'll just be teleported to the end of the street. Considering he also says things like "Nobody has exploded in over a week!" you might find this a little dubious.
If you agree: you get treated to a tour of Morrowind's greatest death traps. You are teleported to places along the lines of: out in the middle of nowhere surrounded by hungry durzogs, the depths of a Daedric shrine (possibly while a ritual is going on), the home of a necromancer, the middle of a large lava pool, an underwater grotto with no air bubbles whatsoever, (possibly) Red Mountain, (possibly) Solstheim in the middle of a group of werewolves, etc. At one point you get to do your best Tarhiel impression. The first place he sends you should maybe be barely survivable for a first level character (something along the lines of somewhere where they can't win the fight but can run away), but after that it gets steadily more lethal. Oh yeah, and all of them are absolutely miles away from this guy.
Also, since it'd be a bit unnatural for him to only send you to the northeastern part of the mainland, I imagine that at each stage it randomly chooses from multiple places of a similar level of lethality. This means that when there's a new release, one could just choose a few appropriate new places in the new areas and add them into the script.
Once you've limped your way back to the guy, you find that he doesn't care about the problems you ran into and just goes "What took you so long?" You probably have a choice of around eight different outraged responses to this, all of which he just brushes aside. He also doesn't give you a reward (you might have the option of asking, to which he'll just say something like 'the honour of participating in such ground-breaking research should be its own reward!') and just wants you to try it again.
If you go through with the whole thing: he moves out, as promised, leaving the finished prototype device behind. What this means is that you get a new fast travel option. It should be useful but not *too* useful, possibly sending you to five/six or so remote places scattered around Morrowind (no cities - rather than "Port Telvannis" it'd be something like "a cave in the Telvanni Isles"). No returns, there's no way to get back from the destinations. It might also have a small (2%?) chance of sending you to the wrong place or one of a preset list of random locations, albeit not ones as lethal as the places you ended up previously.
The neighbour gives you no reward, because they're so frustrated with how long you took. It's possible that they went and hired the Morag Tong, and are now angry that they're going to have to try and cancel that. (A way to vary the whole thing would be by having him attacked by the Tong at the very end and you get to choose whether to help him out or stand by and let them kill him/actually help them kill him. Alternately, have his corpse turn up somewhere with a writ lying on it after the end of the quest.)
If you kill him at any point: this is meant to be a very, very tempting option, and is a viable alternate path.
What happens depends on how many of the teleportation subquests you did before killing the guy. For each, the prototype is slightly more useful (1 extra destination, reduced chance of you ending up somewhere random, possibly the random places you end up being less dangerous), and the reward you get from the neighbour is less valuable/useful because you took longer. If you do none of the quests at all and kill him straight away, the prototype might be a "random teleportation" device, or might have only one destination with something like a 50% chance of that going awry, or might just not work at all. You also get something very nice from the neighbour. I'm not sure exactly what... this gets tricky because they shouldn't be too rich, but at the same time you should get *something* that, although not on the same level as a new fast travel option, isn't too many levels below it. Maybe a useful unique enchanted item (heirloom) or the like.
If we go with the less-evil variety, then teleporting during one of the subquests would mean that the wizard refuses to give you any more of them, the only way to finish this quest will be to kill him, and if you do your rewards are worse because the prototype will not count the failed quest (and hence be worse than if you'd succeeded at it), but the neighbour will (and hence give you worse stuff than if you'd never accepted it at all.)
Alternate quest start: It may be possible to start the teleportation quests just by talking to the wizard about his research. In that case, I'd need to work out what happens if you talk to the neighbour while you're doing these - if they still ask you to get rid of him or just view you as an accomplice and don't talk to you at all. Would definitely need to script things so that cool items from the neighbour/useful prototype are either/or.
I like this idea. Bizarre fast travel options are always interesting, and a central Almalexia hub would be a useful addition. Some things though:
- The angry neighbor seems superfluous, especially since he doesn't give any quest rewards or is otherwise involved with the proceedings. Maybe replace him with a general town rumor, where every one of his neighbors is angry with him.
- Morag Tong involvement should perhaps account for PC membership of the Tong. Maybe you can execute the writ yourself?
- Does this guy have to be Telvanni? Every mad wizard from here to Akavir is a Telvanni, it seems. Why not an outlander, trying to break Dunmer monopoly on long-distance transportation or something?
- The angry neighbor seems superfluous, especially since he doesn't give any quest rewards or is otherwise involved with the proceedings. Maybe replace him with a general town rumor, where every one of his neighbors is angry with him.
- Morag Tong involvement should perhaps account for PC membership of the Tong. Maybe you can execute the writ yourself?
- Does this guy have to be Telvanni? Every mad wizard from here to Akavir is a Telvanni, it seems. Why not an outlander, trying to break Dunmer monopoly on long-distance transportation or something?
Ever heard of the Guild Guides? It's an Imperial thing. The Dunmer have their propylon network, but it's been long abandoned. (And I don't believe a propylon network is planned for the mainland.)Infragris wrote:Why not an outlander, trying to break Dunmer monopoly on long-distance transportation or something?
Of the Bethesda teleporting NPCs, there is [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Folms_Mirel]only one[/url] who is a Dunmer, and that's only if you use the Master Index plugin. Otherwise, there's [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Erranil]two[/url] [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Iniel]Altmer[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Masalinie_Merian]two[/url] [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tribunal:Asciene_Rane]Bretons[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Emelia_Duronia]two[/url] [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Flacassia_Fauseius]Imperials[/url], and [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tribunal:Effe-Tei]one Argonian[/url]. With the current public release of TR, we can add [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Garrus_Melorus]more[/url] [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Simpremus_Comnor]Imperials[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Hessei-Lig]Argonians[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Garath]Bretons[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Mjara]a Khajiit[/url], and alright, there's [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Marin_Thelaro]one Dunmer too[/url].
Very interesting overall idea! (Reminds me of [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axhw-3oFcIk]this scene[/url] in Half-Life 2.)
Some thoughts:
Some thoughts:
- I agree with Infagris that the single disgruntled neighbor could very well be replaced with a "latest rumors" entry
- I understand the reason why you wish to impose a restriction on teleportation during the quest (players could just Recall out of every deadly situation and the quest would be over in seconds). Outright disabling teleportation magic is not a good idea, since it could possibly leave players stuck with the condition if the quest is unexpectedly interrupted (say, the player decides to kill the wizard). In addition, it'll be mighty annoying for those players who wish to perform other tasks while travelling back to Almalexia. Having a script to detect if the player utilizes teleportation also isn't fool-proof, since the player will most likely use travel services to get back to Almalexia and there's no way to detect if they use a Mages Guild guide teleport service instead of a strider or a boat now that i wrote that down i immediately came up with a way of detecting it, but anyway Therefore I suggest that using the teleportation device only disables using recall or interventions for a minute or so. After the time has expired the player may use the magic again.
- Travelling a million miles back to Almalexia repeatedly will be tedious to some, so I'd keep the most far-reaching locations at three max. Maybe at first the player would really be teleported to the end of the street and/or inside one of the neighbors' house and only after that to the locations a world away. I find interrupting a Daedric ritual potentially a really funny situation, btw.
- The Morag Tong involvement is bit of a sidetrack imho.
- The reward for the quest is really innovative and in my opinion not at all "overpowered". Brilliant idea. This is exactly the type of unconventional reward that there should be more.
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Re: Quest idea!
Cool idea. Some thoughts on it:
- The device or, rather, the underlying magical formulae have been taken from a Telvanni master without real understanding (and possibly without his consent), which explains the high-level targets and why the mage has so much trouble adapting it to get something useful. Or you can twist this further and have the actual Telvanni master send an assassin after the guy instead of the Morag Tong? And final twist: The whole point of this teleporter machine was to allow the Telvanni master to send spies and assassins all over Morrowind (the places were deliberately chosen remote so that noone would notice). The questgiver might have been one of the spies sent out who decided to defect and take the machinery with him.
- Don't worry about the reward as long as the quest is hard enough (and it probably will be, if we involve places like 1. Inlet Bog near the Ruinous Keep, 2. seafloor near Sheogorad, 3. Solstheim near Brodir Grove, 4. some undead-infested Dunmer fortress, 5. Teyn :P 6. a Daedric shrine, etc.). What I'd be worried about is that it might mess up our geographic separation of regions, making players discover places before they should (or even planned to). Notice how I've chosen six relatively boring places? Maybe the tops of the Velothis, Kebra's exterior caves and Red Mountain should be better left to the player to discover.
- I think we should leave the Tarhiel moment to Rats' FG quests, if only to keep it unique. But winding up on a ledge with the only way out being a long jump is fair game.
- I don't know how comical you want the dialogue to be, but maybe you can have the questgiver try both "it's harmless; I haven't heard of anyone dying" and "think of all the treasures you will find" at the same time to convince the player, allowing the latter to call bullshit (which makes him concede that he has basically no idea where the teleporter takes you to).
- The device or, rather, the underlying magical formulae have been taken from a Telvanni master without real understanding (and possibly without his consent), which explains the high-level targets and why the mage has so much trouble adapting it to get something useful. Or you can twist this further and have the actual Telvanni master send an assassin after the guy instead of the Morag Tong? And final twist: The whole point of this teleporter machine was to allow the Telvanni master to send spies and assassins all over Morrowind (the places were deliberately chosen remote so that noone would notice). The questgiver might have been one of the spies sent out who decided to defect and take the machinery with him.
- Don't worry about the reward as long as the quest is hard enough (and it probably will be, if we involve places like 1. Inlet Bog near the Ruinous Keep, 2. seafloor near Sheogorad, 3. Solstheim near Brodir Grove, 4. some undead-infested Dunmer fortress, 5. Teyn :P 6. a Daedric shrine, etc.). What I'd be worried about is that it might mess up our geographic separation of regions, making players discover places before they should (or even planned to). Notice how I've chosen six relatively boring places? Maybe the tops of the Velothis, Kebra's exterior caves and Red Mountain should be better left to the player to discover.
- I think we should leave the Tarhiel moment to Rats' FG quests, if only to keep it unique. But winding up on a ledge with the only way out being a long jump is fair game.
- I don't know how comical you want the dialogue to be, but maybe you can have the questgiver try both "it's harmless; I haven't heard of anyone dying" and "think of all the treasures you will find" at the same time to convince the player, allowing the latter to call bullshit (which makes him concede that he has basically no idea where the teleporter takes you to).
Last edited by arvisrend on Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I really like this idea, and don't think the reward is overpowered. I'm not sure whether I like Arvisrend's idea of a Telvanni master with a secret nefarious plot, as TR will probably be chock full of NPCs with secret nefarious plots, especially among the Telvanni.
I do however like the idea that the teleporter was roughly lifted from a Telvanni master who was simply interested in visiting, or having a hireling visit, high level targets. Maybe there can even be a sort of joint quest in which, if the player meets that master, the player will either be asked to retrieve certain items from the various locations or simply to give detailed descriptions of them to sate the Telvanni master's curiosity.
As to the neighbour and Morag Tong involvement, while I like the latter I see how it might distract from the quest. As to the former, however, I think it's a good idea for there to be an alternative reward for quitting the quest by killing the mage, unless that is considered a reward in and of itself.
I do however like the idea that the teleporter was roughly lifted from a Telvanni master who was simply interested in visiting, or having a hireling visit, high level targets. Maybe there can even be a sort of joint quest in which, if the player meets that master, the player will either be asked to retrieve certain items from the various locations or simply to give detailed descriptions of them to sate the Telvanni master's curiosity.
As to the neighbour and Morag Tong involvement, while I like the latter I see how it might distract from the quest. As to the former, however, I think it's a good idea for there to be an alternative reward for quitting the quest by killing the mage, unless that is considered a reward in and of itself.
I was thinking about long-distance transportation in general, not just the magical variety. Silt striders and ships are mostly Dunmeri. but I see your point.Gez wrote:Ever heard of the Guild Guides? It's an Imperial thing. The Dunmer have their propylon network, but it's been long abandoned. (And I don't believe a propylon network is planned for the mainland.)
Of the Bethesda teleporting NPCs, there is [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Folms_Mirel]only one[/url] who is a Dunmer, and that's only if you use the Master Index plugin. Otherwise, there's [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Erranil]two[/url] [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Iniel]Altmer[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Masalinie_Merian]two[/url] [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tribunal:Asciene_Rane]Bretons[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Emelia_Duronia]two[/url] [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Flacassia_Fauseius]Imperials[/url], and [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tribunal:Effe-Tei]one Argonian[/url]. With the current public release of TR, we can add [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Garrus_Melorus]more[/url] [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Simpremus_Comnor]Imperials[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Hessei-Lig]Argonians[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Garath]Bretons[/url], [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Mjara]a Khajiit[/url], and alright, there's [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Marin_Thelaro]one Dunmer too[/url].
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It's not a nefarious plot. It's what they do every day!Gnomey wrote:I really like this idea, and don't think the reward is overpowered. I'm not sure whether I like Arvisrend's idea of a Telvanni master with a secret nefarious plot, as TR will probably be chock full of NPCs with secret nefarious plots, especially among the Telvanni.
Thanks everyone for the feedback! I'm glad people like the idea of the quest.
Re: the wizard - it's a very good point that he doesn't need to be Telvanni, and this would be a bit cliche. The way I'd imagined this is that he's a lone native Dunmer magic researcher type who's interested in teleportation, but basically managed to really annoy the Mages Guild so he couldn't study the guild guide system at all. He switched his attention to the propylon system, but is basically too lazy and scared to go to Vvardenfell to look at it directly (also, Folms Mirel beat him to it). It's definitely possible that he stole part of the prototype from a high-ranking Telvanni (or bought it from someone who stole it), although I do imagine him to have done most of the enchantment work himself - and I admit I'm unsure about "nefarious scheme to send spies and assassins all over Morrowind" as a result. But one could do something with having a high-ranking Telvanni who's going "oi, that was mine", even if just for some bonus dialogue or the like.
Re: the neighbour and Morag Tong involvement - it looks like everyone agrees he's an unnecessary part of it all. I'd basically come up with this to have someone direct you to the wizard (i.e.: can be replaced by latest rumors), plus making killing the wizard a bit more of a viable alternate route. Of course, the question is whether we really want that to be a viable alternate route - the player is "meant" to resist temptation and go through with the whole thing, and it seems fair to punish them for, ah, losing their temper. It was originally conceived to add a partial reward/alternate route aspect to the whole thing, but then the way it's plotted the less-functional prototype would also be a partial reward. I guess that part can be cut, and it does simplify things quite a bit.
Re: teleportation disablement - excellent point on people possibly getting stuck that way (although I'm sure safeties could be built in...). At the same time, having it only be for a minute or two would work for some of the scenarios, but if we go with e.g. "ledge with no way out but a long, long drop" then it'd be really easy for someone to just stand around twiddling their thumbs until the teleportation came back.
What might be an option would be varying it up a bit - have one quest where teleportation is disabled/scripted to fail the quest totally (with an exception for guild guide services unless we manage to script-detect that) and the player has to do a really long journey back mainly on foot, another where it's only for five minutes or so *but* you're dumped into the middle of a Daedric ritual and those five minutes will leave you in serious trouble, etc. This would also address the concern that too many long journeys back from remote places would be annoying, and I admit I'm a bit worried about this getting repetitive.
Re: locations - @arvisrend, you make an excellent point. What counts as too exciting will probably be subject to debate - for instance, it's clear that Dagoth Ur is out, but what about a location inside the Ghostfence but not near any of the major landmarks?
On the first teleport being harmless - I'm not so keen on it... it feels like it makes the wizard actually seem competent, which he's not meant to. My idea was basically that the first teleport should be survivable by level 1 characters but make absolutely clear that this is not a quest for anyone who's not packing serious magical power and combat ability, and if they continue they only have themselves to blame. (I am actually pondering that interrupted Daedric ritual now, with the cultists going "ugh, small fry, not worth killing, get out of here" if you're below level five or something... Sheogorath cultists?)
However, come to think of it what would be kind of hilarious is the last teleport just being to the end of the street. You know, have the player prepare themselves for anything and then... total anticlimax. And the wizard is indignant if you express your surprise - sure, there were a few very minor setbacks before, but he told you he'd fixed those! Were you doubting him?
I've also wondered whether there are any places one could send the player where stealth instead of fighting would be the best way out - any interiors where NPCs will kick up a fuss if they find you trespassing or the like, that wouldn't be too quest-breaking or exploration-shortcut out there?
Re: the wizard - it's a very good point that he doesn't need to be Telvanni, and this would be a bit cliche. The way I'd imagined this is that he's a lone native Dunmer magic researcher type who's interested in teleportation, but basically managed to really annoy the Mages Guild so he couldn't study the guild guide system at all. He switched his attention to the propylon system, but is basically too lazy and scared to go to Vvardenfell to look at it directly (also, Folms Mirel beat him to it). It's definitely possible that he stole part of the prototype from a high-ranking Telvanni (or bought it from someone who stole it), although I do imagine him to have done most of the enchantment work himself - and I admit I'm unsure about "nefarious scheme to send spies and assassins all over Morrowind" as a result. But one could do something with having a high-ranking Telvanni who's going "oi, that was mine", even if just for some bonus dialogue or the like.
Re: the neighbour and Morag Tong involvement - it looks like everyone agrees he's an unnecessary part of it all. I'd basically come up with this to have someone direct you to the wizard (i.e.: can be replaced by latest rumors), plus making killing the wizard a bit more of a viable alternate route. Of course, the question is whether we really want that to be a viable alternate route - the player is "meant" to resist temptation and go through with the whole thing, and it seems fair to punish them for, ah, losing their temper. It was originally conceived to add a partial reward/alternate route aspect to the whole thing, but then the way it's plotted the less-functional prototype would also be a partial reward. I guess that part can be cut, and it does simplify things quite a bit.
Re: teleportation disablement - excellent point on people possibly getting stuck that way (although I'm sure safeties could be built in...). At the same time, having it only be for a minute or two would work for some of the scenarios, but if we go with e.g. "ledge with no way out but a long, long drop" then it'd be really easy for someone to just stand around twiddling their thumbs until the teleportation came back.
What might be an option would be varying it up a bit - have one quest where teleportation is disabled/scripted to fail the quest totally (with an exception for guild guide services unless we manage to script-detect that) and the player has to do a really long journey back mainly on foot, another where it's only for five minutes or so *but* you're dumped into the middle of a Daedric ritual and those five minutes will leave you in serious trouble, etc. This would also address the concern that too many long journeys back from remote places would be annoying, and I admit I'm a bit worried about this getting repetitive.
Re: locations - @arvisrend, you make an excellent point. What counts as too exciting will probably be subject to debate - for instance, it's clear that Dagoth Ur is out, but what about a location inside the Ghostfence but not near any of the major landmarks?
On the first teleport being harmless - I'm not so keen on it... it feels like it makes the wizard actually seem competent, which he's not meant to. My idea was basically that the first teleport should be survivable by level 1 characters but make absolutely clear that this is not a quest for anyone who's not packing serious magical power and combat ability, and if they continue they only have themselves to blame. (I am actually pondering that interrupted Daedric ritual now, with the cultists going "ugh, small fry, not worth killing, get out of here" if you're below level five or something... Sheogorath cultists?)
However, come to think of it what would be kind of hilarious is the last teleport just being to the end of the street. You know, have the player prepare themselves for anything and then... total anticlimax. And the wizard is indignant if you express your surprise - sure, there were a few very minor setbacks before, but he told you he'd fixed those! Were you doubting him?
I've also wondered whether there are any places one could send the player where stealth instead of fighting would be the best way out - any interiors where NPCs will kick up a fuss if they find you trespassing or the like, that wouldn't be too quest-breaking or exploration-shortcut out there?
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As I said, there are no nefarious schemes involved here -- Telvanni send their subordinates out on various kinds of missions, such as fetching artefacts for them and stalking or killing betrayers (in a quest design I posted somewhere, I even suggested they are getting rid of some of their most useless apprentices this way). These don't usually include any major subversion or power grabs; most Telvanni understand that they don't have the resources for a fully fledged House war.Kaz wrote:Re: the wizard - it's a very good point that he doesn't need to be Telvanni, and this would be a bit cliche. The way I'd imagined this is that he's a lone native Dunmer magic researcher type who's interested in teleportation, but basically managed to really annoy the Mages Guild so he couldn't study the guild guide system at all. He switched his attention to the propylon system, but is basically too lazy and scared to go to Vvardenfell to look at it directly (also, Folms Mirel beat him to it). It's definitely possible that he stole part of the prototype from a high-ranking Telvanni (or bought it from someone who stole it), although I do imagine him to have done most of the enchantment work himself - and I admit I'm unsure about "nefarious scheme to send spies and assassins all over Morrowind" as a result. But one could do something with having a high-ranking Telvanni who's going "oi, that was mine", even if just for some bonus dialogue or the like.
Why this teleporter is done by a Telvanni master rather than a random loony mage? I figured it's the kind of project that requires a lot of work and lots of knowledge of Morrowind's magiography (look I just invented a word). I think we can agree on having the "source code" stolen from a Telvanni, while the "build environment" was assembled by the mage (which explains the lots of trial-and-error).
I am not sure if there needs to be someone who directs the player to the wizard, but if so, it definitely doesn't have to be an assassin. Maybe someone in the Mages Guild will mention him?
@teleportation disablement: No. Just make the quest record the player teleporting (I think this is doable; teleportation can be detected in script, right?), and if he does so, he has to repeat the journey (but after 3 or so teleportations, the questgiver is annoyed and the quest fails).
The Red Mountain region isn't large enough to have a place near any of the major landmarks (Dwemer ruins). And it's probably not a place worth teleporting to for a Telvanni. If you want a dangerous and out-of-way place, try a Daedric shrine (interior) in the Ashlands or a vampire-infested ruin.Kaz wrote:Re: locations - @arvisrend, you make an excellent point. What counts as too exciting will probably be subject to debate - for instance, it's clear that Dagoth Ur is out, but what about a location inside the Ghostfence but not near any of the major landmarks?
I don't think it should teleport into an ongoing ritual simply because it looks artificial. A Daedric shrine should be enough. We might actually make a shrine specifically for this quest on map 5, which will contain a more or less hidden escape route.Kaz wrote:On the first teleport being harmless - I'm not so keen on it... it feels like it makes the wizard actually seem competent, which he's not meant to. My idea was basically that the first teleport should be survivable by level 1 characters but make absolutely clear that this is not a quest for anyone who's not packing serious magical power and combat ability, and if they continue they only have themselves to blame. (I am actually pondering that interrupted Daedric ritual now, with the cultists going "ugh, small fry, not worth killing, get out of here" if you're below level five or something... Sheogorath cultists?)
That one is nice.Kaz wrote:However, come to think of it what would be kind of hilarious is the last teleport just being to the end of the street. You know, have the player prepare themselves for anything and then... total anticlimax. And the wizard is indignant if you express your surprise - sure, there were a few very minor setbacks before, but he told you he'd fixed those! Were you doubting him?
The one problem is, the dialogue you'd need for that might easily go overboard. So you're teleported into a bedroom of the Ebonheart castle; at the very least you should be able to tell the guards what brought you there! This can in turn require more dialogue depending on your choices.Kaz wrote:I've also wondered whether there are any places one could send the player where stealth instead of fighting would be the best way out - any interiors where NPCs will kick up a fuss if they find you trespassing or the like, that wouldn't be too quest-breaking or exploration-shortcut out there?
The other problem is, stealth in MW is basically about random numbers. I think we'll have to wait at least until OpenMW past 1.0 to see any reasonable stealth mechanic in MW.
We should 100% include the option to simply talk yourself out of this situation by pretending to be Boethiah/Molag Bal/Sheogorath appearing before your followersarvisrend wrote:I don't think it should teleport into an ongoing ritual simply because it looks artificial. A Daedric shrine should be enough. We might actually make a shrine specifically for this quest on map 5, which will contain a more or less hidden escape route..
Wouldn't be artificial from an in-character perspective - ritual being a summoning or at least a confluence of magic, PC using an unoptimised magical transport spell hijacking the line... makes as much sense as anything.arvisrend wrote:I don't think it should teleport into an ongoing ritual simply because it looks artificial. A Daedric shrine should be enough. We might actually make a shrine specifically for this quest on map 5, which will contain a more or less hidden escape route.
Gamey, though? Gordon Freeman appearing in Breen's office? Maybe, but only insofar as showing NPCs doing anything other than idly standing around is something we're not accustomed to in vanilla. However if the latest quests are any indication, TR will be using a lot more scripted events, don't think it'd stand out in a wrong way.
Stealth in Morrowind? There's no concept of trespassing, beyond lockpicking doors. NPCs will never object to you just being there, unless you use some special scripting for that, which will then feel odd because nothing else in the game works this way. You can make it so that they're [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Furius_Acilius]angry if the player talks to them[/url], but it's still quite artificial.
The closest thing you can do to actual trespass is therefore put the player in a locked room with a guard. Like teleport him to [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Tholer_Saryoni]Tholer Saryoni's office[/url] or something of that sort: the "guard" NPC should be someone that they will not simply assume they can just kill to go away. If there's an unlocked way out, the player would just be able to go out without needing to be stealthy about it.
In a general way, "surprise stealth" mission doesn't work in Morrowind, since the assumption is that NPCs are fine with you just going anywhere, so unless you have a briefing that tells you "make sure nobody sees you" (as you could have for a thieves guild mission), the player will not assume it's needed.
The closest thing you can do to actual trespass is therefore put the player in a locked room with a guard. Like teleport him to [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Tholer_Saryoni]Tholer Saryoni's office[/url] or something of that sort: the "guard" NPC should be someone that they will not simply assume they can just kill to go away. If there's an unlocked way out, the player would just be able to go out without needing to be stealthy about it.
In a general way, "surprise stealth" mission doesn't work in Morrowind, since the assumption is that NPCs are fine with you just going anywhere, so unless you have a briefing that tells you "make sure nobody sees you" (as you could have for a thieves guild mission), the player will not assume it's needed.
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Hah, now that makes it worth it! Great idea.6plus wrote:We should 100% include the option to simply talk yourself out of this situation by pretending to be Boethiah/Molag Bal/Sheogorath appearing before your followersarvisrend wrote:I don't think it should teleport into an ongoing ritual simply because it looks artificial. A Daedric shrine should be enough. We might actually make a shrine specifically for this quest on map 5, which will contain a more or less hidden escape route..
Then how about teleporting the player straight to the very same Telvani mage the teleportation device was stolen from, then forcing a conversation where you have to convince him know nothing about any kind of teleportation (or at least not about the device itself)? Either talk your way out of it or be forced to fight him / run away. I think that would be hilarious, and it would go beautifully with the 'accidental summoning' part of the quest.Kaz wrote:... But one could do something with having a high-ranking Telvanni who's going "oi, that was mine", even if just for some bonus dialogue or the like.
I absolutely agree. This could be such a fun quest.Kaz wrote:However, come to think of it what would be kind of hilarious is the last teleport just being to the end of the street. You know, have the player prepare themselves for anything and then... total anticlimax.