New dungeon types

[Melchior Dahrk]

Has there been any work on new "dungeon" types for TR?

In vanilla, we have:

Abandoned Mines
Ancestral Tombs
Caves
Daedric Shrines
Dunmer Strongholds
Dwemer Ruins
Grottos
Ice Caves
Kwama Hives
Nordic Barrows
Old Mournhold/Indoril Ruins
Sewers
Sixth House Cave-bases
Velothi Towers
Wizard Caves

Are there new types of dungeons for players to look forward to on the mainland?

[sasquatch]

This is a good question. I think sea caves would be a nice addition. One of the things that makes Morrowind great is the sense of exploration. Adding a new type of geology would be great. Such a cave would obviously be along the coast, but cave formations could extend out into the water on the exterior allowing for a little spelunking action before reaching hidden and maybe only partially submerged cave entrances. These caves would be almost entirely partially submerged and be a great spot for exploration and maybe cliche pirates and hidden treasure. If open enough we could have boats floating around inside!

Another type of dungeon/cave I would like to add would be ones for climbing/ mountaineering. All or most players could access the area but once there they would have to scout out paths of ascent and jump rock rock to ledge to reach a diff exit/ treasure. I suppose they could just levitate out.. but it could present an interesting and new challenge. Perhaps only characters with sufficiently high acrobatics/athletics could even hope to accomplish some tasks. Mix in some puzzles and traps and we could introduce an entirely new style of play.

[Tondollari]

One type not listed that I've seen once is Imperial Fort ruins, namely "Ruinous Keep". I don't remember seeing something similar in vanilla or expansions.

[Melchior Dahrk]

I believe that TR currently expands on the Old Indoril ruins with areas like Dun Akafell. Is that correct? Or is that a settlement?

What about wild Telvanni root systems? I know it's a copy of Shivering Isles. But the roots and mushrooms were kind of a copy of Telvanni fungitecture in the first place.

I may have other ideas, but I'm curious about what's already in place first.

The Imperial Fort Ruins sound like fun parallels with the newer games. Is there a picture in existence which shows how they look?

[sasquatch]

or you just ignore this and every other post.

[Haplo]

sasquatch, I'm not sure what's going on with your post, but please refrain from posting what appears to be random passive-aggressive posts that don't actually say anything. Forum threads aren't one to one conversations. Melchior can continue to post discrete ideas here or respond in kind to any number (including zero) of responses by other people. He isn't obligated to make his next post in the thread a response to yours.

[immortal_pigs]

This is a good question to ask. I'd say I'm open minded to adding a new dungeon type. But this would require a lot of work, probably creating new models at the very least to create a new interior/exterior set. And to be fair, the current selection Melchior posted is already quite a lot of choice, so adding a new interior/exterior set doesn't seem entirely necessary just yet.

@ Sasquatch
The underwater stuff you mentioned sound like the "Grotto" type of dungeon to me. (Which are basically underwater caves).

Your mountain climbing idea seems fine for a select group of caves or whatnot, but I don't think it would need to be an entirely new interior/exterior set.

[Gnomey]

I'd say by and large new dungeons types should be added if they are needed, rather than trying to come up with new ones and making them fit. As far as OM is concerned, for example, that largely depends on how we handle Indoril lands. If we want signs of older Indoril settlement to be littered around, (for instance in the now-Hlaalu western bank of the Thirr), OM ruins might get more of a showing. What their function was (shrines, farmsteads, villages) would largely dictate their layout, and as such the player's dungeon-crawling experience.

I think Dun Akafell is an OM city inhabited by vampires, for example. I'm not sure if there are currently any other OM ruins in the mod.

I'd imagine new dungeon types, such as wild Sky Render nests and maybe something in the Argon Jungle, might be added by the time we get to Map 6.

[Melchior Dahrk]

Didn't mean to offend, sasquatch. The first idea just sounded like a grotto and the second sounded like a cave so I didn't see much to comment on.

After I actually LOOKED and compiled the list above, it did appear that Morrowind already had a fairly decent selection, which is great help to be sure. I was mostly curious if anything new had been done or had been planned/discussed.

I was also thinking something along the lines of Skyrender (or similar insect) nests and something unique down in the swamps would be refreshing to players. I wasn't sure how far the OM set had been taken yet. Battling, looting, and exploring the depths of Morrowind are equally as important as having well thought out cities and properly named plantations in my opinion.

Obviously this is beyond the scope of TR, but to be honest, the Kwama Colonies could be improved upon to make the cave meshes look more like they were dug by bugs with pointy snouts and have small tunnels branching off the main path which are inaccessible. Just to overall make it seem more like a unique tileset rather than a cave/mine combo. But that's something I'll worry about for Of Ash and Blight.

[sasquatch]

My first idea could be any interior but proposes a different of way interacting with the space. I don't know every dungeon/cave interior but I cannot recall many climbing obstacles that require use of acrobatics and careful movement to that extent. Most dungeons are a straight run through and through not an obstacle course.


The second idea may sound similar to a grotto but would definitely be different. While the terminology may be relatively interchangeable a "sea cave" would be much more open on the interior and exposed to the sea. What I am proposing is an exterior cave on the coast as pictured in "sea cave" wikipedia article and elsewhere. Maybe this could be a unique feature or one of only 2 or 3. I could also see 2 or 3 small cave interiors being placed in a sea cave exterior to make a "cave complex." Having these would make some really unique, memorable, scenic locations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_cave


Both ideas represent not only a different type of interior but imo would allow another way for the player to experience that space. Doing either of these would also not require the creation of more model or textures.

[Tondollari]

I like that idea. It would be a really creative way of having the exterior cell be part of a cave. I think I saw something similar in the alpha, in thirr region, but it was more of a darkened hole in cliffside and upon activating it you were in an interior cell.

Is there a picture in existence which shows how they look?

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:TR3-place-Ruinous_Keep.jpg

I've never been inside, but it appeared to be an abandoned fort with a bunch of skeletons in it. Very mysterious. I think it would be interesting finding ways of using game assets to make dungeons out of things that usually aren't dungeons. Another small example that comes to mind is the manor with corprus beasts in Ald-Ruhn.

There are some cities where buildings are said to be carved out of the landscape's rock. Perhaps there could be a building or group of buildings that were abandoned due to a terrible mudslide or rockslide, and bandits or vermin came to inhabit them?

[Melchior Dahrk]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/File:TR3-place-Ruinous_Keep.jpg

I've never been inside, but it appeared to be an abandoned fort with a bunch of skeletons in it. Very mysterious. I think it would be interesting finding ways of using game assets to make dungeons out of things that usually aren't dungeons. Another small example that comes to mind is the manor with corprus beasts in Ald-Ruhn.

There are some cities where buildings are said to be carved out of the landscape's rock. Perhaps there could be a building or group of buildings that were abandoned due to a terrible mudslide or rockslide, and bandits or vermin came to inhabit them?

That keep doesn't look ruinous at all. Could definitely make more use of the ruined Imperial Fort pieces.

I naturally assumed we could expect to find some abandoned buildings. I wouldn't consider those as "dungeons" per se though. Unless they were large enough. But an "abandoned" cave village could be interesting.

[Lady Nerevar]

I don't know every dungeon/cave interior but I cannot recall many climbing obstacles that require use of acrobatics and careful movement to that extent. Most dungeons are a straight run through and through not an obstacle course.

That's because Morrowind isn't built for that sort of interaction. It's no where near precise enough to handle a decent acrobatic or navigation puzzle.


Didn't TR add bloatspore caves? I'm not sure if any of those survived the purges, and I'm not sure they're distinctive enough to qualify as a new type, but there you go.

[Melchior Dahrk]

Didn't TR add bloatspore caves? I'm not sure if any of those survived the purges, and I'm not sure they're distinctive enough to qualify as a new type, but there you go.

Well, I did add caves, mines, kwama caves, sixth house bases, grottos, and wizard caves even though they're all technically the same tileset. So by my specific definitions, yeah, that could be a "new" dungeon type. I'd say especially if there was a specific creature in them... do Parastylus like bloat perhaps?

[sasquatch]

That's because Morrowind isn't built for that sort of interaction. It's no where near precise enough to handle a decent acrobatic or navigation puzzle.

Point welltaken, esp since players could levitate past ledge puzzles that require precision. I still think areas where players can really put acrobatics to use would be nice though. making more areas that are only accessible to those with high acrobatics by spacing rocks/rubble ledges sufficiently far apart could add to the experience and reward player for many hours of training acrobatics all across Morrowind. Also while the movement and jumping/running mechanics may not be precise enough to allow for a full acrobatics puzzle simply being able to move around mid-air should be enough to allow players enough accuracy to properly land on larger obstacles.

Another interesting way to use this would be intentional placement of debris/ rockform on steep mountain slopes so that run/walking up them or even skipping is not possible unless players are skilled enough to reach successive ledges. Simply reaching a mountain peak could be reward enough to an exploration inclined player. Some practical uses of this could be to create mountain or jungle passes/shortcuts through otherwise impassible terrain. A staircase with wider spacing could serve as a functioning representation of an arduous passage that only the most experienced guides/scouts/explorers/adventurer can navigate.

[Infragris]

Wizard's towers? I mean, that aren't Telvanni or Velothi. Before the Ages of Man mentions First Era Altmer towers on Vvardenfell.

Other than that, something like Sotha Sil-based monasteries? Power gathering stations and arcane complexes scattered about the map, a support network for the city itself. They wouldn't even have to use the Sotha Sil tileset: just a velothi or OM place with a novel purpose, and maybe a couple of cogs.