i5-56-Red

[Seneca37]

Claim type: Interior
Claim ID: TR_i5-56-Red (#2636)
Faction: Redoran
Parent claim: TR_5-2-Red (#169)
Claimed by: Parted User
Status: Not Available (Progress: 90%)
Local map: Reich Parkeep 3
Location: 1:(-3046, 547):0
Files: TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch2o_1.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_1.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_10.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_11.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_12.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_2.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_3.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_4.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_5.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_6.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_7.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_8.esp; TR_i5-56-Red_sasquatch_9.esp

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[-24, 5] A tunnel system that at the very least connects the two doors shown on the local map.

Consider adding storage areas for food and such. Maybe a Temple, or a Dunmer crypt? Be creative, but don't go overboard.

[Yeti]

Claiming.

I will include small storage areas, a modest Temple attended by a single priest, a small crypt and some spaces for two or three small-time peddlers to hawk their goods to people passing through the tunnel.

[Aeven]

Granting. Sounds like a good plan! Let's get this map going! :)

[Yeti]

Well, it was mostly your plan, to be honest, as outlined in the claim description, but I'll try to give it my own creative flair.

[Aeven]

Hey Yeti, almost the One Month Mark(TM)! How is this progressing?

[Yeti]

One month already! I've done a little work on the shell and will get a file up by the 8th.

[Yeti]

I'm going to ask for this to be revoked so I can focus on my Almalexia claim and planning for Almas Thirr/Othrensis.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

revoked by request

[sasquatch]

I will claim this and complete the claim according to the original plan.

[Aeven]

Fedde le Grant.

[sasquatch]

what set do i use for this?

[sasquatch]

update!


After checking the exterior I wanted to attempt to make this interior space impressive and spacious enough to do justice the city's cavern area outside. To do this I continued the waterfall to the interior and made this considerably larger than my original plans.

I'd like to add 3 crypt interiors, a storage office in a loft with entrance behind storage in the back left, a merchant apartment and storage above the two covered market areas. At the top I am planning to add the small temple next to the water.

I need someone to check this. Maybe the people who worked on the exterior, Nemon was one of them I believe, could give this the OK before I proceed.

I will let this sit a couple days. If there is no response I will assume the layout and plans for interior are suitable.

[Gnomey]

While I really like the concept, I think that it qualifies as "going overboard". It effectively doubles the town's size. Rather than a storage area with maybe a temple or crypt, it has become a large marketplace with a temple and several crypts.
I'd also read 'crypt' as a small ancestral tomb, as seen in several Vivec canalworks, which the local Dunmer would use. Not as Nordic barrows.

On a side note, while I like the effect, using multiple instances of furn_de_banner_01 and placing some on their side and upside down doesn't really work well in my opinion. The banners are legible, and read "the thrice sealed house withstands the storm". It's kind of like having a mall in France plastered with signs reading "Liberté, égalité, fraternité", some of which are mounted on their sides and upside down.

[sasquatch]

XD .. Thanks for the reply Gnomey. I will reduce this layout and make the crypts Velothi. I will not add the apartments and will reduce the amount of storage as well as the size of the above temple. I will keep the 3 crypts, but they will be extremely small. My intention is that they will be non hostile and frequently visted. The market while fairly large I think is reasonable it caters to those visiting the crypts and temple as well as locals.

[sasquatch]

update!

work continues. claim should be completed within the one month window.

[sasquatch]

Wup wupwup, update! Lot of objects going in here and i'm not done yet. Still a novice at this so i don't yet know how to load this up to check the framerate.

Also not sure how to make the blacklava_square a portal to a couple of the attached interiors..

[sasquatch]

Havn't made much progress the last couple days. i added some items and the temple. TrainingDummy from P:C, Province Cyrodiil, helped me script some items in the crypts so that when they are looted ghosts spawn. I think it'd be really interesting if the doors would also lock in crypt1 until the ghost(s) is/are killed. Maybe someone from TR could help me figure how to make that work.

[Swiftoak]

Hey Sasquatch. Fist off, apologies for the lack of responding. Most of us are tied up IRL atm, which means things are generally much slower than usual (which is normal around this time of year).

I'm not exactly the best person to comment on interiors or stuff, but since nobody else ahs responded, thought I'd take the time to give it a glance. I cannot help you with your problem, but maybe Rats, rot, or arvisrend might, since they're good at that scripting stuff.

Aestheically speaking, this is very good! I really love how you made the cave more open. We usually don't see open spaces in caves (MW's cave tilesets make things claustrophobic at times). Very refreshing. My only suggestion would probably be to watch the ceiling of the main chamber, and how it's pieced together. It's kinda jarring because you'll notice the texture seams of the variois mismatched objects. I'd play around here, possibly adding stalagmites/tites (?) to hide those, and break up the space a little. I probably wouldn't add much more than that if I can give you some advice.

Hope that is at least somewhat helpful, keep at it!

[rot]

the doors would also lock in crypt1 until the ghost(s) is/are killed.

If the player's facing away from (/can't see) the doors when this happens, it's very easy:

- change the door to be 'unique' = copy the door you want with a new ID, say TR_i5-56_door
- check 'References Persist' on it
- in the script which spawns the ghosts, add the line locking it (which will close it too)

Code: Select all

TR_i5-56_door->Lock 80

- to unlock them, when all the ghosts are dead,

Code: Select all

TR_i5-56_door->Unlock

If you want the doors to progressively (visibly) close and open, that can be arranged too, just need to know which doors and how many ghosts. The ghosts will need to have unique IDs either way.

[sasquatch]

My question is really how to cause it to unlock once they are dead. Adding these lines at the end one after the other only instantly locks then unlocks the door even while the ghosts are alive.

I tested this out. The door is renamed "TR_i5-56_door1" and reference persists is checked on the door.

The script for spawning ghost is:

begin TR_Summon_Ghost1
; Summon an Ancestral Ghost when PC loots
;
; script location: should be placed at PC

; variables
short done

if ( OnActivate == 1 )
if ( done == 1 )
Activate
return
else
Set done to 1
PlaceAtPC "ancestor_ghost" 1 128 1
;1 of them, 256 units away, in back (1) of the player
Activate
TR_i5-56_door1->Lock 80
TR_i5-56_door1->Unlock
endif
endif

End

_________
I am also wondering how to spawn multiple ghosts (3) for some of the items. Anyway, thanks for the quick responses I am clueless about scripting so I have prob made a really simple mistake.

[rot]

If it's just one ghost and one hidden door, then it's still easy -

- Make the trap chest script spawn a unique ghost instead (and remove the Unlock from it, leaving only the Lock)
- To that ghost ID, add the script that will unlock the door when it dies

Code: Select all

Begin scriptname

If ( OnDeath == 1 )
TR_i5-56_door1->Unlock 
Endif

End

[sasquatch]

That works great. I changed the spawned enemy to a greater ancestral ghost for the main items in the crypt. That and the locked door set to 80 should ensure that any foolish new players are killed. The rest of the items and crypts spawn regular ghosts and do not lock doors so if raiding every crypt is on the agenda players will be in for a surprise.

I noticed some real stuttering while moving in the heavily cluttered market stall after adding the clothing. Oddly FPS remains in the mid 50s for me despite high face count and extreme # of items. The area is definitely still playable though and I expect OpenMW may be have its first release before this area becomes playable in TR.

[rot]

Can't speak for how appropriate the size is wrt the ?city? but the spatiousness is indeed refreshing. FPS seems reasonable (on the latest file), and it looks good!

Btw the 'mist' objects need to be placed underwater?/underground (or inverted above ceilings I guess), otherwise their small blue cubes can be seen ingame.

[sasquatch]

I have just completed the layout for this claim (minus the hut stairs). No major additions will be made at this point. The temple now has a small area to explore below it that combines some Velothi and Redoran elements to give in the look of having history and being built into and above a preexisting crypt.

Over the next week i will finalize rockform placement, maybe remove/replace some objects in the crowded stall, and the remaining objects.

Thanks rot for the comment. Adjusting these things is something i will focus on next.

[sasquatch]

It appears I spoke too soon in regards to the door/ unlock_kill script. There is still a problem with the door remaining locked. I also need like some scripting help for the temple crypt. I'd like to spawn 3 greater ghosts when player loots small chest and close/lock the door and then unlock after the kills if possible.

[rot]

- first of all, if you want to associate a script to an item, you'll have to make the item unique (again, creating an identical one with different ID) or the script will apply to *all* instances of that object (in this case all the 107 bonemold cuirasses placed in vanilla and TR...). That goes for every item the script is on (ring, bonemold stuff, diamonds, etc)

- same thing for the creature you associate a script to - by "making the creature unique" I meant also make an identical one with a different ID (you just need to doubleclick on the creature in the list, change the ID, then save and say yes on creating a new one)

- even scripts should use standard TR naming conventions; the script summoning a standard ghost will probably be included in _data at some point or other but the ones specific to this int especially should have TR_... names to that effect (there aren't any strict guidelines on that I think, the point is really to make sure there are no conflicts with other entities because of a generic name). Creatures which are specific to the int (because of how they unlock doors) should also have TR-standard IDs; for these you'll want to use TR_m5_... (m rather than i so they fit with other specific IDs in the mod)

- the way this is done it seems those items will all spawn one ghost EACH when looted. I'm guessing that's not intended, especially not for the gems?

- as for why it didn't work anymore on your file, it's because you've inverted the placement of 'greater ghost' and regular ones on the scripts (the one that locks the door places a regular ghost, and not a scripted one that unlocks the door upon death)

- ectoplasm placed like it was cleanly and purposedly put there in a tomb (like with swords/offerings laid on it) *might* not be appropriate (I really don't know, but leaning towards no since gameplaywise that only happens when something nasty is done to a ghost). Someone please give input

I'd like to spawn 3 greater ghosts when player loots small chest and close/lock the door and then unlock after the kills if possible.

I assume you mean unlock only once they've all been killed;
For this you'll proceed in a similar way, except spawn 3 of the same ghost (again, with a unique ID!) - that means just 3 times the line that spawns one, though you may want to change the positions they're put at later -

on that unique-ID ghost, this script will do the trick: (replace doorname, creaturename and scriptname with appropriate IDs)

Code: Select all

Begin scriptname

If ( OnDeath == 1 )
If ( GetDeadCount, "creaturename" >= 3 )
doorname->Unlock
Endif
Endif

End

the only difference is it makes sure it's the third one you're killing before opening it

[Thrignar Fraxix]

I'd say ectoplasm shouldn't be an offering, for the stated reasons.

[sasquatch]

I made some minor adjustment and small additions here. The door script now works (thanks rot). I changed some lighting settings and most of the necessary containers/items have unique names. I will still need to figure how to make close door script for the temple, but the rest is all grunt work.

Ah - Also, the ectoplasm wasn't intended to be an offering but rather a hint of ghost activity and their attachment to the nearby objects, but since that is how it is being interpreted and because there are no other instances of this in Tamriel i will remove the offending ectoplasm.

[Swiftoak]

Oh my this is quite lovely. Some screens from this interior would make for lovely PR material when it's done. Did you consider my earlier suggestion at adding some rocks/stalagmites/stalagtitesto the ceiling of the main chamber? Not too overboard, just something to break up the space. The tiling of Terrain_rock_BM_69 is a tad jarring in some places. I'm really hoping we can get to making those broad (wider) waterfalls, they would look great here (versus the ex_vivec waterfalls always being tiled which is somewhat limiting).

Keep it up!

[sasquatch]

review

[Swiftoak]

Off to review!

[sasquatch2o]

I have added another cave to this interior this makes total size 20-30% larger. However, this is hidden area, not main play area, that interconnects multiple areas. I have added 2 dark loaddoors in temple as place holders until I learn how to make the ladder and grate spawn door markers.

[Seneca37]

Any progress to report?

[sasquatch2o]

I think I'll replace the black loaddoor placeholders in temple with the MH ladder I found. Might just bleed a second ladder through. Maybe you can check that out. Noone yet seems sufficiently motivated to explain how to add a door marker to existing obj. Maybe you have some better ideas.

Some additional thoughts on this. Before anyone asks for an update, reply with some likes and dislikes and new ideas that will further improve the interior. This will show you have at least looked at the work and encourage people to make further submissions.

[Seneca37]

First of all, your previous message:

I have added another cave to this interior ...

did not indicate that you needed and or wanted help. In the future, just ask, and I'll do all I can to help out. Snide comments don't help. My main priority right now is to get all the HIGH Priority (i4) interiors reviewed. This does not leave a lot of time for checking out current works-in-progress. But I do try to look them over when they are sent to review.

This is quite an impressive piece of work, I really like the look and impression of openness it has.

To add the door marker feature to an item, you need to create a new door with that item.
To handle going up and down a ladder, I suggest the following:
1) Create a new door, TR_m5-56_ladder using the x\ex_de_shack_steps_01.nif model.
2) Stack 2 of them together, and use the static piece TR_in_ladder_trap to cover the seam. Now you've got 2 door teleporters on one item (so to speak). It should be trivial from here to set it up.
3) You may need to scale these pieces to fit your space properly.

You will need to have the model in the "data files\meshes\x" directory on your computer. You can get the model files by extracting them from the Morrowind.bsa file (there are several bsa extractors out there) or I've included both shack steps (the long one and the shorter one) in the attachment for your convenience.

Now comments on this interior:
Gnomey told you this was way overboard, and I agree. There was nothing in the description about vendors, or crypts or a temple. But I think the majority of it can be salvaged.

Turn it into a ruins. Remove the vendor items and make it look like this part of the city was deserted due to the ceiling collapsing. Add some ex_redwall_p_01/02... pieces to show crumbing walls and add some more large BM stones to the main area that would have fallen from the ceiling. The 3 crypts are fine as is - do not make them larger. However, the temple should not be here. There is no lore for this temple, and no plan to have one here. As for the extra "hidden" cave; it's ok. It still needs some work, but remove the structures from it. Keep it a SIMPLE cave passage. Maybe hide a chest in here.

Please clean up your file when you post works-in-progress. This file is very dirty.

I'm a little perplexed by all the fishing equipment. Where are the fish coming from? The water, I understand, is run off from the snow on top, and would flow out via the stream on the south side of town. But I don't see why or how fish got in here. As for all the waterfalls - make them narrower. There are enough falls here to rival Niagara Falls, and there is only the 1 small outlet. But you have done some good work with them, and the river. I do like the attention to detail on the rocks creating mist/spray - good job.

Put something under the Narsis stairs (big casper issue), or prevent the player from getting under it.

The furn_mist needs the placement boxes to be hidden.

The signs do not make sense to me - why would there be so many, and in all different orientations? Most should be removed, as mentioned before.

I like the idea of the ectoplasm, however ghosts don't leave a trail of ectoplasm, it only appears when you've killed one. Include a dead person in the crypt - who might have killed a ghost or two, and only have a couple of ectos in the crypt, maybe on the walls or side of an alter.

Don't overlap heather - the model uses an alpha channel for hiding the true edges - this will cause flickering to occur.

I know this is a wip - so I'll not point out all the bleeders and floaters in here. Be sure to fix them before submitting to review.

Scripts should use indentation to help see the logic. TR_m5_Summon_Ghost_loot looks good, but TR_m5_Summon_GGhost1 needs some work.

Do not let doormarkers intersect with other items. This will cause the player to get stuck as they pass from one section to another. So, be sure that door markers are away from the doors and above the ground. You should see the whole selection box around the door marker, if this can not be done - then the space is too small and needs to be enlarged.

Are you still having problems with the lock on the door? I didn't get a chance to test that out, and you didn't mention it.

Like I said before, if you need any help or just want someone to look over your work - just ask. I'll get to it as soon as possible.

[Yeti]

Now comments on this interior:
Gnomey told you this was way overboard, and I agree. There was nothing in the description about vendors, or crypts or a temple. But I think the majority of it can be salvaged.

Actually, the description does mention them pretty explicitly, Seneca.

Consider adding storage areas for food and such. Maybe a Temple, or a Dunmer crypt? Be creative, but don't go overboard.

I also listed vendors as a possibility in my first post, though their presence doesn't really match the new style of the tunnel network. Ruins might work better.

Does the city already have a Tribunal Temple? I assumed it could be located here when the interior description first went up.

[Seneca37]

My mistake - so sorry. When I start a review, I copy the description to a file that I work from. For some unknown reason, I only copied the first line of this description, and was working from that. Again sorry.

I still think making this more like a ruins is a good idea, but it can stay as is and the vendors and the temple can stay as well.

[Aeven]

Any progress on this?

[sasquatch2o]

Not enough to post. How is your sinkhole?

[Aeven]

Please don't deflect questions. The issue here is that you have several claims at present and are also claiming new ones, when you could finish your current ones.