Almalexia - Opinions

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:19 am

Almalexia as a city has some of us somewhat divided.

Personally, I think the city is mostly fine, and think the city needs minor exterior work. I believe Nemon agrees with me on this. Others feel it's too large and confusing.

I want to gather opinion on Almalexia. Please offer your opinion on the current city (bearing in mind most of the interiors are actually finished or underway.) I'll gather these and we can move forth from there.

As for my personal opinion:

The city is large, but I like this. Personally I very much like exploring cities, even if I won't explore every single interior there is to be found. Cities, in my opinion, are where the magic happens.

As for it being too large to comfortably navigate, remember that internal travel has not yet been implemented. I know Why has thought of a way to make this work without giving every single exterior cell its own name, but still use the normal travel dialogue. Also, it's very much possible to use coloured banners as a way to distinguish between 'districts'. I am of the opinion cities needn't be easy to travel and discover on first site. I'll admit I know the city structure well due to having worked on it, but this seems a workable option.

As for areas in need of rework, and I believe Nemon agrees on this; the waterworks need to be redone, and the towers leading to the floating market need to be either removed or drastically lowered.

The critique that the city was worked on onesidedly is in my mind unfounded. The current design of the city was done at a peak of exterior development, and people often commented on the progress being made. This included criticism of area size and design. It also took into account the idea of parts of the city being more or less devoted to a specific purpose, as unhistoric as that would be in the real world.

On another matter concerning the idea the city is unworkable: most of the interiors of Almalexia have actually been made. Also, when I was promoted to the (now non-existent) post of Head of Interiors back in December, I devoted a lot of time to getting a good overview and planning of interiors for the city. In doing this, I discovered only a marginal amount of interiors for Almalexia were troublesome, and even these were greatly solvable. I was open to suggestions and criticisms in doing this, and responded to this. A large part of the city is 'generic', and even then, in such a manner that is not seen anywhere else. Think of bell towers and soup kitchens, among others. The minority of interiors planned (and mostly already made) has been generic homes. By far the most interior claims have been relatively unique.

On another note: the general atmosphere that goes along with House Indoril has been established, and any further desire to flesh out this concept need not indefinitely hinder completing the city. So far, nothing in the city is inherently incompatible with the established view of what House Indoril is like.

TL;DR:

Please offer your own, preferably balanced, opinion on the city of Almalexia. Don't feel scared to mention aspects which have gone unmentioned thus far. I hope we're all committed to seeing the city done, preferably sooner rather than later, and as such we should value all opinions on the matter.

Post by **rot** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:51 am

It's not the size that matters, it's how you... ~

Like the fact that it's ambitiously big. Less enthusiastic about districts not getting names because that's a lot of Almalexia, but coloured banners could certainly help with both that and the paradoxically ubiquitous darkgreen&grey Indoril combination which would always be an issue regardless of everything else. Size, not the problem.

Have to walk a lot to get from one point of the city to another? Don't be ridiculous, you have to walk longer than that to get to most places you're sent to. Fetch quests too long? How about you don't do fetch quests, they're boring, and if you do need to do fetch quests you use your judgement and don't have them bounce across the place itself. Not the problem.

Mournhold is {whatever} - Tribunal is shit and Mournhold being contained is about as much work as it deserves. Not the problem.

What I don't like: despite the impressive technical prowess that went into making all those scenes unique, everything looks the same to me. Buildings don't seem to have an identity, not just in the sense that, obviouslly, they can't have an identity without names and NPCs, but also in how they relate to each other.

Now for the big one, practical concerns: NPCing isn't TR's strong point. Memorable NPCs in vanilla? Sure you can name a couple. Memorable NPCs in TR? Not a criticism on the NPCers, who do fine work (these days at least), but this is what happens when you make characters fit an empty place instead of the other way around. (and then worse, try to have quests fit these same characters) It works for services, shops. Everything else? No. And there has to be quite a bit of everything else in this Almalexia. Can it be NPCed? Yes. Can it be NPCed well? Look at Necrom.

TL;DR it's the size of the fight in the dog

Bero · Post by **Bero** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:49 am

I think Almalexia is awesome and I really like its size. Its first great city in elder scrolls since Imperial city wasn't that good in my opinion

.
But I think we should do more planning before doing ints, well you should I'm just workforce

(I'm not telling you to rework it thou)

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:52 am

Honest opinion.

I like the physical size of the city. Don't ever think of shrinking it. Internal travel services would do a lot for moving through the city so size is not really an issue. It's got some great technical work and some parts are truly brilliant in how they flow as you walk around. We also got to the point that the city was not filled to the brim with gigantic towers impossible to interiorise well.

Now the downsides. First and foremost I don't think the city integrates Mournhold well, and I don't think the current design is capable of accomodating Mournhold well at all. I have a whole raft of reasons for saying this which I won't give now because I can see that doing so could cause the thread to derail. I think the way the purposes of the buildings and 'districts' are dispersed throughout the city is sub-par (and much of that caused by Mournhold). I don't think Almalexia is confusing enough to walk through: everything seems to have neat paths from one place to the next. To me there's no real chance to get lost and find something disturbing or surprising and wonder how on earth you got there. Lastly I think the way the interiors have been allocated is arbitrary and kinda lazy, but this is the result of the process of building the city.

If it weren't for Mournhold, I think the current design would've been adequate. But with it I just don't think it will work.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:21 am

I think it has fundamental flaws that render it completely and totally inadequate and do not have time at present to elaborate.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:16 am

Almalexia was created based on a few given principles; an integration of MH not touching the vanilla content itself. There are good reasons not to tinker with vanilla MH, and my opinion is that the current implementation is the best viable option while retaining our original statement of not screwing around (too much) with vanilla stuff. Based on the original city being sacked my Mehrunes Dagon the design choice to elevate MH was chosen since it's built on the ruins of the old city. I accept the issue with the current height situation, but lowering the sermon terraces and the inner city of Mournhold is a simple procedure that shouldn't lead to a complete trashing of the current Almalexia.

We had initial discussions on irc during the start of the rebuild, suggesting this was a solo run on my part is completely incorrect. Changes were made during the evolution of the city and parts has been revised as it progressed. Mind you, the file uploaded as of now is not what I deemed my final submit of this file, rather a WIP among the earlier WIPs. I mean the current waterworks/north entrance is of inadequate quality and should be redone, as I have stated earlier and in the new section forum. It does not serve as an entrance area and nor does it funnel the players in the correct direction.

I welcome criticism, naturally, I'm in no way or form an unassailable entity on the matter, nor do I try to stop people from giving their input on my work. The claim thread shows a long process with input and revision, I don't have the irc logs from the 2-3 years this took but I don't think anyone will object to this claim being a team effort, although mostly Aeven and I performed the actual work in the CS. I stepped back from HoE due to a combination of fatigue and as mentioned earlier, perhaps my creative flow was halting. That being said, I find some of the criticism to be complete and utter rubbish, no one complained about "fundamental flaws" or that it being "totally inadequate" during the 2-3 year process that lead to the current version. It's presented in an overly dramatic manner.

Bero · Post by **Bero** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:51 am

I'd like to hear those flaws. There are lots of errors but i think all of them are minor things like floaters and bleeders (although the fact that I can see into TR_ex_ind_hwall01 from below bothers me).
I think that there is bit of overuse of bridges outside of alma but thats my opinion, because I think you should be stunned by marvels of architecture and stuff once you pass the gate not before (well before too but by city itself and not some stuff around it).
Also one think that bothers me is how the wall in cell 25,-29 ends. I think there should be rock or something.
But as I said those are just minor things. This city is miracle considering number of meshes for buildings and the fact that the city doesn't feel the same everywhere.

Mwgek · Post by **Mwgek** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:08 pm

Sload wrote:I think it has fundamental flaws that render it completely and totally inadequate and do not have time at present to elaborate.

This post has fundamental flaws and I don't have the time to elaborate it.

If we want to keep the Mournhold interior. The exterior is, with a few fixes here and there, ok.

I like the idea of better district planning with banners and markings. Also the waterways beneath the area where a lot of buildings are resting on it feel a little moddy. I think we should go for fixing rather then redoing and the planning can start right away.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:35 pm

Mwgek wrote:This post has fundamental flaws and I don't have the time to elaborate it.

Stuff like this isn't helpful, Mwgek.

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I'll have a more in-depth post to make here once I've had time to take notes on the current version of Almalexia. What I will say is this: I love a lot of Nemon's work on individual areas of the city. But when I zoom out and look at the city as a whole, I can't help but feel that it has been overly compartmentalized.

rot wrote:Can it be NPCed? Yes. Can it be NPCed well? Look at Necrom.

On an unrelated note that would be better discussed in another thread, I'd love for us return to Necrom in the near future to flesh out its NPCs.

Post by **arvisrend** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:57 pm

Before I join this flame (if I actually find the time for this -- right now I'm far behind on other duties such as reviewing), let me ask a question. Am I seeing it right that we have two big options (and not much inbetween):

O1: We don't change the large-scale design of Almalexia, nor do we overhaul Tribunal in a serious way. Mournhold remains a fake exterior and only minor modifications are done to the Tribunal questline (such as improving directions, so that the player doesn't look for the Dark Brotherhood in whatever dungeons TR makes, and such as delaying the assassins to e.g. the hortator quests of the vanilla MQ). The elevation of Mournhold can still be changed if deemed necessary, and some buildings in Almalexia can be replaced by "park" (particularly useful in those parts of Almalexia where the framerate is currently low -- though some Indoril meshes might also have potential for optimization).

O2: The city is redesigned to be significantly smaller, and all, or at least a significant amount of, Mournhold is poured out on the outside. Buildings, NPCs, activators change their places. TR_Mainland is no longer compatible with existing Morrowind savegames, but instead must be activated before starting a new character. Since Tribunal is now all (or most of it) in TR_Mainland, we also become incompatible with all existing Tribunal mods, and therefore have to provide some of their functionality, including at least all bugfixes. As a consequence, we have to review Tribunal as a huge (mostly quest) claim. Also, the framerate might become a problem, particularly in the quest where the fabricants attack. (This issue can be averted, but it has to be taken seriously at design time -- buffer zones need to be made between FPS-heavy objects.)

Obviously, option O1 comes with a huge burden on the NPC department (unless a lot of buildings are cut out, probably making Almalexia greener than most modern European "green" cities, possibly even stretching realism), while O2 similarly gives the questing department a giant review task. I don't know which of these is more difficult, but both seem above our current capacities right now (sorry if I underestimate them -- what I can tell is that I certainly am not up to the task of reviewing Tribunal unless I get a real-life sinecure for half a year!).

If O1 and O2 are our only options, I don't have much of a suggestion; either one is a rocky road to take. As far as the quality of the result is concerned, it's hard to compare because Mournhold will not be considered a part of TR if option O1 is taken.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:35 pm

Almalexia's size isn't the most pressing issue, imo. It's more how this size is organized in a way that makes traversing the city fun and manageable. As far as NPCing goes, we're not trying to go full-out LGNPC, so I don't really see it as an insurmountable obstacle. It will be a challenge, yes, but I think with a large group of people working on it at once, it should be manageable.

sasquatch · Post by **sasquatch** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:55 pm

For my opinion see rot and Nomadic1's posts. I disagree with Nomadic in that I do NOT think the position of Mournhold should be changed. Frankly I dont care if I can even go in it. Next, Almalexia doesnt have enough areas to get lost in or have a storied feel. It is one dimensional in many places. Also, some people apparently think Almalexia may be too big or too confusing, but it is not big enough. It should have areas that are more vertical and more have depth. There needs to be more cramped enclosed or covered spaces and more of the detail and life that has been poured into the interiors needs to spill into the exterior. I do not want to see Almalexia scrapped. The exterior is simply far what I'd like it's finished state should be. The city also needs an underground in each quarter, even if they are modestly sized with most corridors being blocked off somehow, and a central network of tunnels connecting them. Also, I don't want to see any of the many completed Almalexia interiors to be repurposed or unused.

I believe there is an in-between with options listed above. Almalexia mainly needs to be reimagined as an urban region rather than an entirely explorable and interactive city. Not every NPC needs detail. Maybe maybe more buildings could be added that <gasp> are not explorable, but are instead boarded up.

Almalexia needs to be reimagined as a massive urban jungle. Hills and valleys of buildings and maybe hostile areas even in the exterior where the player has to battle off street thugs. Almalexia needs urban "caves" too even on the exterior. Spots where the player can get back into dark gritty off-the-beaten-path spaces under bridges in back alleys etc.. Almalexia dungeons should include large interior complexes that are perhaps designed in a diff exterior cell with a door from main exterior that takes player into systems of back alley ghettos with roaving bands of thugs etc all with their own interiors.. Should include brothels, taverns, drug dens, but mostly boarded up unexplorable buildings.

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There are many other things that need to be done to bring a city of this size to life. One of these needs to be adding a whole menu of ambient urban sounds. We need ambient sounds for outside taverns or ambient sounds for market places.. ambient sounds for every type of experience that is occurring in the exterior or in and interior that is spilling into the outdoors. There are plenty of free resources out there we could use for inspiration or material. Doing this will help us imagine how spaces are used and experienced by the NPCs and player. http://www.soundsurvey.org.uk/

Next we need more maps. Right now we have maps of physical geography. We need to map how NPCs and the player will experience the area and how buildings relate to each other. This is most important in Almalexia, because of its size.
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Examples:

http://www.inclusionmark.co.uk/blog/?p=51
The first image there highlights important locations. We should be doing the same. We need maps that mark important locations for the player and the most logical routes they will take between them these paths. This is important for tweaking the layout of the city.

http://vimeo.com/16398803
Anyone who is working on the organization of Almalexia needs to watch this video entirely.

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We need to understand how cities are formed AND how different NPCs will use the space and be distributed in the city. (see 1:20)
We also need to understand how subregions should are formed in cities. Almalexia's current layout is very mechanical rather than organic. We need enclaves in this urban jungle that are distinguished from other locations by how the space is being used in the exterior. The subculture of each enclave should be apparent on the exterior. Rather than just different color banners NPCs should be wearing certain types of clothing colors/value, use of diff overhangs, have different statics outdoors (pottery or basket. Such an enclave should also have characters that shape the area, a VIP list or characters with depth. Many of whom are engaged somehow politically or socially related to each other.

NEXT

The wealthy areas are probably fine as the city is, but in poorer areas we need to see that the local community is really connected. There need to be communal spaces on the exterior. The poorer an area is and the greater the cultural identity they have the greater the informal economy needs to be in that place and it should be reflected outdoor. This means shared outdoor markets, shared gardens, etc.

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Most people are unlikely to read all that and whether it makes sense is unclear so here are some bulletpoints.

-Do not remake Almalexia
-Do not make major changes to further integrate Mournhold
-Postpone release of Almalexia
-continue development and make minor adjustments and major additions
-Reimagine the city as an urban jungle rather than a city
+areas of limited interactivity based on NPC & player paths
+creation of creative enclaves that are reflected in exterior
+create "urban dungeons"
+create "urban caves"
+more usable height and depth
-large emphasis on detailed use of sound to create atmosphere
+expand our sound data and use of sounds to add atmosphere
-bring interior spaces to the exterior
-creation of a visible informal economy on the exterior
-create an expansive partially inhabited underground for the city.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:49 am

Although I appreciate your clear enthusiasm, Sasquatch, much of what you suggest is outside the bounds of what we could reasonably deliver, and does not address the current issues with finishing the city. For example, there is very little chance of adding more underground areas to Almalexia, seeing as it's something Tribunal has already done, and the work it would require would be better directed elsewhere.

sasquatch · Post by **sasquatch** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:11 am

I think it is doable. If outdoor areas of high detail or exterior urban dungeons are impossible because of framerate issue make them in another exterior cell with a gate and block off the crowded area on the top with newly created overhangs/ board statics to prevent players from getting in from the top as seen here:

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/William-James-Muller/The-Carpet-Bazaar-Cairo-1843.html

http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/Louis-Claude-Mouchot/The-Carpet-Bazaar-Cairo.html?s=20x16&gclid=CLzHvvemtrwCFYpaMgodCU0AlQ

This would create really interesting and dark outdoor urban spaces that could be assumed to be outside control of the city and on fringe of society making them perfect for combat and questing.

Almalexia needs more areas of interest and depth. I am proposing that we focus our efforts on making smaller hubs of activity throughout the city. These should be areas of interest with high amount of detail and interactivity with much of the rest of the city having generic NPCs and locations.

It is important that the city not be approached as others have because of its size. Almalexia should be handled not as a traditional city but instead as an urban region as I proposed in my above post. To make the city exciting it needs more highly detailed locations of interest just like all our other exterior regions. A city of this size will not be interesting simply having buildings and lifeless NPCs. It needs hostile locations as well as social hubs of activity for NPCs where the majority of the quests happen. Other quests should send players out to explore "urban caves" and "urban dungeons" of interest. In this way we could not only limit the workload of attempting the near impossible task of having detailed, interesting NPC and quests throughout the entire city and assume that the majority of the urban environment will just be scenic in between spaces like all the other exterior spaces in Morrowind. I dont think attempting to treat Almalexia like any other city is doable.

I should also explain that by urban caves/ dungeons I mean areas that are somehow excluded from high traffic areas but very detailed and interesting. Instead of handling the city in its entirety we need to make small areas of high interest and the paths between them fun to explore.

I'd like to know why adding more depth to Almalexia in this manner is not a possibility yet redoing and redoing AGAIN the entire city is apparently on the list of options? I'm in favor of adding more yet some want to start from the top. I hardly think my proposal is outrageous as that.

Adanorcil · Post by **Adanorcil** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:32 pm

I started writing a huge post on this entire topic, with the idea of outlining my main thoughts about it all. I'm currently a page in, exhausted, and nowhere near done, which makes me realize I couldn't write all I'd want to if I had a whole week.

SO: I think it's high time we had a Skype meeting on this matter (and this matter alone) in the near future. Instead of going into great detail about it here, I'll just keep my thoughts until then.

[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=320003#320003]Check this post for details[/url]

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:51 pm

sasquatch, although you seem enthusiastic - I don't think you have a realistic view on what is feasible to do, neither resource wise nor engine wise. We can conjure up dozens of great ideas, we still have a 12 year old engine left to run it.

[12:19] <neXUSmon> The current dummy MH serves not only as a reasonable way to include vanilla content and secure mod compatability, but also as a low resource demanding buffer. If we incorporate MH into our ext Alma, not only will we have to remake most of the city but also take a huge fps hit into consideration. We have no guarantee for neither the completion of openmw, a possible multi thread add on nor a development of a new Alma that will please everyone. It will be smaller, yes, probably better layout since arbitrary vanilla design choices are ignored. But unless we cut back on eye candy we'll end up with what narsis once was in the limited mw engine - a single digit fps horror show

sasquatch · Post by **sasquatch** » Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:24 pm

I'd like to know what dormant genius thoughts you have on this and where the mystery link has gone. At this Skype meeting, will you have cleavers and notebooks of Morrowind names?

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:44 am

sasquatch wrote:I'd like to know what dormant genius thoughts you have on this and where the mystery link has gone. At this Skype meeting, will you have cleavers and notebooks of Morrowind names?

Again, this kind of passive-aggressive response is not helpful.

Please be mindful, Sasquatch, that many of the people you are responding to here have been with the project for a long time, and generally have a good grasp of what works and what doesn't work when it comes to setting realistic expectations for the mod.

Also, Adanorcil's link isn't working for you because it is linking to a part of the forums that only Lead Designers can access.

Perhaps we should consider having the Skype meeting threads open to regular developers?

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:51 am

I think that observing the meetings, at least, would be beneficial to all developers.

sasquatch · Post by **sasquatch** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:05 am

Sload wrote:I think it has fundamental flaws that render it completely and totally inadequate and do not have time at present to elaborate.

This is a typical response from TR elites and I have frequently received much worse on IRC! Not only is TR leadership unwilling to listen to developers with less than 5 years on the boards they do not want your opinions. It is a shame that such an amazing project has come under the control of such tyrants. TR, largely, obviously does not care about the opinions or time of those who contribute to this mod. Developers are not even permitted to know what is discussed in these meeting!? Passive aggressive is diverting a public forum for opinions away from what developers and the public can view and comment on. I also think you are cowards for your apparent unwillingness to have open discussions.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:44 am

Lately, we've been moving towards greater openness, hence why the new sectional planning discussions were made available to all modders. Some stuff is still discussed behind the scenes, of course, as is the case with any organization with some degree of management oversight. Sometimes discussions need to be held out of the public eye. It allows lead developers to discuss matters more candidly and helps avoid needless controversies. This has been the case for several years, since before I even joined TR. I will say, however, that there has been much less activity in the nonpublic forums since the new design sections were implemented.

I agree that Skype meetings should be open to all developers. The reason that they are not, however, is likely more of an oversight left over from TR's old organizational structure, rather than a direct attempt to keep developers from participating.

You are free to share your opinions here, Sasquatch, no matter how long you've been with the project. I personally greatly appreciate your enthusiasm and the time you are dedicating to the mod. At the same time, you should understand that you are coming into a discussion that has a long history of conflict and controversy. Many of the people posting in this thread have put long years of time and effort into Almalexia, and it's a touchy subject because of this. So when someone who has been with the project for only a little over a month begins suggesting a slew of major changes to the city, longtime modders are not going to immediately latch onto them.

Bero · Post by **Bero** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:26 pm

I think Almalexia could use a lawless zone full of criminals and poor people. It can be made in underground ruins or something .
(some random picture from the internetz to show you my idea: http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/32200000/Underground-City-the-assassins-32223848-480-288.jpg it should be probably smaller)

Terrifying Daedric Foe · Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:09 pm

I don't think Almalexia should have a 'lawless' area at all. It just doesn't strike me as Dunmer, or Indoril in particular. Poor areas where the Cammona Tong and other criminals are strong, certainly. But the guards should still patrol the streets and the criminality should happen behind closed doors.

Melchior Dahrk · Post by **Melchior Dahrk** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:17 pm

Let me just pipe in to say that I'd hate to see Almalexia downsized. TES has been lacking in a good and large city for a long time (no, I don't consider the IC to be a good and large city). Though it sounds like this is a fairly common opinion in this thread.

I only have minor experience with the current TR Almalexia from when I placed my Canal Gates in the city. It was large, and I was thoroughly lost. I think that largely came from being unfamiliar with the city. But it did seem like there were a few areas which were not as accessible as they could be.

I've recently been renovating the large city in my own mod to have better access between the various districts. I think it is time well spent and that it's what TR should do. Yes, it may require uprooting some areas, moving things around, deleting some things here and there. But I'm sure it's doable. Then if that is combined with a travel system like the rickshaw and street signs and/or district signs/banners, I think it would greatly improve maneuverability.

As much as I'd love to see gritty areas in Almalexia, especially knowing Vivec's background of growing up in the Underdocks of Mournhold, I wouldn't recommend including them at this point if there isn't already space set aside for them. There's always the opportunity for a modder or group of modders to create Almalexia Underground after this is released.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:19 pm

sasquatch wrote: [...]

Insulting and flaming members of TR and the project as a whole is not permitted. Consider this an official warning to that end. You can fruitfully discuss qualms with project workflow and organizational behavior without resorting to such childish language.

---

Regarding culture, we have Lead Developers who have only been here for a couple years, and we have regular Developers who have been here for six or seven. Time spent at the project is not in any way associated with whether you or your ideas are taken seriously or given voice.

Regarding the "missing" link, it leads to an old forum for Lead Developers that we are still in the process of phasing out with this new forum design and organizational structure. Please have patience with this paradigm shift in the way we operate; it's the biggest change the project has ever experienced, and it's only just beginning.

Regarding Skype meetings, again these are not intended as mandatory departmental meetings for the most part. Anyone is welcome to talk to anyone one-to-one or in a group in IRC, on the forums, or in a Skype group call/chat. However, the organizational structure of TR that we currently have in place is that Lead Developers (and, to a large extent, Senior Developers) are those with the most experience with top-level planning and design and, as such, they are tasked with such discussions and decisions as would define the course of our project. I think this is what Adanorcil had in mind when he mentioned a Skype meeting. This isn't necessarily the best thread for his post (this isn't even the right section for this thread), but again, we're still not entirely conscious of how best to use this new organizational structure just yet. We ask that you bear with us through these growing pains. This is not to say that Developers or Senior Developers are not allowed to know about, partake in, or attend the meetings. We encourage participation and normally do have minutes and summaries of the meetings posted shortly after the fact (sometimes even audio logs). As has been mentioned already, however, these historically are placed in the Lead Developer sections, which we are still working to integrate into the new section format.

Regarding Almalexia in general, during the last few group discussions, what we agreed was that we don't know what we want from our capital city from the point of view of our Master Plan. As such, I'm locking this thread temporarily, until we can have a discussion at that level thorough enough that we have concrete parameters within which we can constructively discuss our ideas and hopes for the city on a microcosmic level. This is important because there are many posts here that offer up ideas which simply don't work with Almalexia or Great House Indoril, simply because, I suspect, people aren't aware of all that we have discussed already as a project regarding those topics. Once we have decided the logistics of the aforementioned Skype/IRC/whatever meeting, we will be sure to communicate them to all Developers. You can hold me responsible for that.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:28 pm

This thread was a continuation of a fight from elsewhere, and therefore should not have been made in the first place. In case anyone was still waiting for this to be unlocked, know that it will never be. When this discussion happens, it will happen again fresh, and hopefully without the raised tensions that have led to the problems in this thread.