Map 3 NPC Claim #3 [Tondollari]

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:18 pm

Finally got a chance to have a look at it, and it's looking very good. The river stuff is spot on!

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:36 pm

Done. Another bit of Tamriel has been rebuilt.

All existing interiors have been merged, the rest need to be made.

Here's a list of the ones I didn't make a map for.

New Interiors:

[12, -25] Mine of sorts
[11, -28] Velothi-style house
[12, -30] Underground river. It's basically the source of one of the rivers feeding Lake Andaram in the south. This is the big black hole. Very dark.
[6, -29] Grotto

As for the maps: they're of small settlements which don't need a name. Only the exteriors with numbers need a new interior.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:47 pm

Good work, Aeven. Off to review!

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:19 am

Reviewed exterior file. The 12 interior claims still need to be made, finished, and merged before this is sent to Exteriors: Finished. SamirA, some of the new interior claims are shacks, and we still need to find a location for what used to be the Almas Thirr slums (fishing/farming shacks), as far as I know. Maybe see if some of those could fit the claims here?

SamirA · Post by **SamirA** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:38 pm

There is only a couple shack claims in that file that do not have interiors already. I am going to see if any of the revoked claims will fit them though before making new claims for it.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:12 pm

*Thumbs up*

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:38 pm

I'd like to alter this file a bit to match our new concept of the Othrensis region. Nemon is okay with this and it makes sense to do it now rather than later.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:29 am

Any progress on that work, Aeven?

Also, SamirA, do those shacks now have interior claims?

Post by **arvisrend** » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:44 pm

Do merge [url=http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=12238]i3-172[/url] into this file, ignoring the bullshit I wrote about it belonging to M3A2 or M3A4west (it doesn't).

In other news, some fun for the fixing division:

Terrain_rocks_WG_02 Thirr River Valley (13,-29) 108773 -234301 1334 "casper"

Terrain_rocks_WG_01 Thirr River Valley (13,-29) 109673 -231940 2148 "minor casper" Could not replicate but sunk anyway.

TR_Flora_treeoak_FZ1b Thirr River Valley (13,-28) 112880 -228301 2159 "caspers"

Terrain_rocks_WG_01 Thirr River Valley (12,-30) 101448 -239838 440 "caspers"

Terrain_rocks_AI_02 Thirr River Valley (11,-26) 91386 -207200 402 "casper"

Terrain_rocks_AI_04 Thirr River Valley (10,-31) 89963 -249260 676 "casper"

Terrain_rocks_AI_01 Thirr River Valley (10,-29) 88435 -236214 221 "casper"

Terrain_rocks_AI_04 Thirr River Valley (8,-31) 65765 -249842 2606 "casp0r"

Ex_De_Shack_Door Thirr River Valley (8,-29) 72740 -231164 718 "door misplaced"

Terrain_rocks_AI_04 Thirr River Valley (7,-31) 64501 -247259 3361 "casp0r"

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:32 pm

Aeven wrote:I'd like to alter this file a bit to match our new concept of the Othrensis region. Nemon is okay with this and it makes sense to do it now rather than later.

So... any progress yet on this?

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:31 am

It needs to be done when the merge happens.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:56 am

i3-172 merged along with i3-170, i3-377, i3-382, and i3-735 (the three shacks which are next to i3-172, and shack on a small dock in (9,-30)). i3-727 through i3-733 also merged in and linked up. That brings the total number of interiors in this claim, by my count, to 26. All the interiors *should* be merged now.

All of the bugs in arvisrend's bug list have been fixed.

This claim is ready for final exterior playtesting. Please download it and report any floater/casper bugs you can find! And if you find any unlinked doors, also please post.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Sat Nov 23, 2013 8:03 am

VERY quick runthrough in the CS only, so I probably missed a bunch, but here's what I picked up after 20 or so minutes of skimming.

Flora_kelp_04 (6,-29) 50961, -234590, -1094 floats
Terrain_rocks_AI_01 (6, -30) 56632, -238401, -94 minor casper
Terrain_rocks_AI_03 (7, -29) 58869, -235821, -175 minor casper
Terrain_rocks_AI_03 (9, -31) 74320, -251610, 1886 casper
Terrain_rocks_AI_01 (9, -31) 73803, -253744, 1740 minor casper not found
Terrain_rocks_AI_01 (8, -31) 73564, -252164, 2224 casper not foudn
Terrain_rocks_AI_01 (9, -31) 74371, -247033, 749 casper
Terrain_rocks_AI_01 (9, -30) 76509, -242401, 211 casper
terrain_rock_ai_06 (12, -31) 103135, -253201, 358 casper

Post by **rot** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 5:26 am

Unlinked door:
door_cavern_doors20 Thirr River Valley (12,-25) 100682 -200657 432 "missing interior"

Reminder that there are some deprecated books (TR_bk_TravelIll4_PY, TR_bk_TravelIll1_PY)

TR_flora_tree01_ND Thirr River Valley (12,-31) 102431 -247057 469 "floating roots intended? (not only the one resting on a rock)"
TR_flora_tree07_ND Thirr River Valley (12,-24) 103024 -191224 1215 "casper from below" huh?
ex_velothi_window_01 Thirr River Valley (10,-30) 87657 -245272 416 "window not found in the int"
sack_small_(scale)00 Thirr River Valley (7,-30) 60083 -242148 154 " 'SMALL cloth sack' supposed to be scaled down. Looks >= regular sacks"
com_sack_02_chpfood3 Thirr River Valley (12,-28 ) 103311 -225202 1494 "this sack not selectable due to leaves"
Terrain_rocks_WG_03 Thirr River Valley (13,-28 ) 108324 -227723 1088 "excessive amount of black vertex / shadow here" - shadowlight removed

TR_barrel_01_Ingredient TR_i3-523-Ind 4017 3565 15427 "container's leveled list inappropriate for a shack (raw gold and glass)" needs fixing in Data
caryarel_barrel Thirr River Valley (7,-30) 60748 -240845 263 "these..."
caryarel_barrel Thirr River Valley (7,-30) 60748 -240845 197 "... are quest containers. Need replacing w regular barrels"

furn_anvil00 TR_i3-377-Ind 4293 4251 14766 "big anvil on surelevated (see ext) planks of wood? sounds risky"

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:12 am

About the unlinked door: it's not linked inwards, ie. from inside you can go into the exterior, but not into the interior from the outside. The interior does exist though: i3-729 and is merged and partially linked.

Post by **arvisrend** » Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:12 pm

Is anyone working on this file? Can I have it for bug fixing?

Post by **arvisrend** » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:29 am

New version, sans a couple bugs.

Post by **rot** » Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:42 am

Couple fixes and added 2 tombs.

edit: file in [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=321437#321437]this post[/url]

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:08 pm

Claiming for NPCing.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:22 am

Has this been discussed behind the scenes on IRC? Does that mean we're skipping the border matching for now and adding the mountain pass?

Post by **rot** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 12:26 pm

Yeti wrote:Has this been discussed behind the scenes on IRC?

Yes, nobody's shown interest in doing the exterior tweaks anytime soon. The (comparatively much longer) NPCing work won't be affected by the colour of the rocks and physical absence of the road, no point in stalling it for now

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:33 pm

Okay. Sounds good.

EDIT: Granting

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:36 pm

Some stylistic pointers:

- Limit the amount unique dialogue here. This is a low-key area and most npcs should exist merely to fill space. Npcs with unique dialogue should be tied to quests.

- Keep in mind the Indoril system of land management in this area. Indoril aristocrats own the land and protect the peasant farmers, who give tribute to their lords and engage in communal farming.

- The Population should be about 85-90% Dunmer. There isn't much in this corner of the Thirr River Valley to interest outlanders, who will mostly be drawn to nearby settlements. Speaking of which:

- Only refer to nearby cities like Almas Thirr and Roa Dyr in general terms. Each of them will be going through minor overhauls in the near future that will affect their current npcs and dialogue.

- The Indoril Councilor who holds local sovereignty over these lands is Draler Ilvi, who lives in the manor to the north.

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:30 am

Short NPC outline for farms/towns/plantations attached. Not all of the detail would make its way into dialogue, necessarily. My biggest question has to do with the fisherman's village, listed at the bottom.

Post by **rot** » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:05 pm

please mind the issues when moving threads from Reviewing! posts from the last 2 years are now probably invisible to non-mods (without going through reply history)

Here's a reupload of the latest version in the meantime:

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:58 pm

Progress update. Civilized areas are fully NPC'd, plus one bandit cave. Areas affected include "Velonith Farmstead", "Saveri Plantation", "Selyn Farmstead", the fishing village of "Rilsoan" (Might change to "Siloan"), the bandit cave of "Yamniban", and "Vorus Odathil's House".

To do:
wilderness creatures/NPCs
remaining dungeons
dialogue
a quest for Velonith Farmstead, described in previous notes

Also made some small interior changes:

Deleted glitchy "steam" from cistern in "Velonith Farmstead, Ovis and Mansa Dirvyn's Shack"

Added bedroll in "Velonith Farmstead, Muddunshipal Egg Mine" for Llavorn Berelan

Removed one of the mine carts & its contents from "Velonith Farmstead, Velms Arelas' House" (blocked basement entry)

Replaced copy of "Jokes!" in "Selyn Farmstead, Irvasa Sorvas' Shack" with "Rilms' Lesson"

Replaced "The Pig Children" and "Jokes!" in "Selyn Farmstead, Gorz gro-Ungbuk's Shack" with "Words of Philosophy" and "Mixed Unit Tactics", deleted "Defense of Morrowind", replaced dunmer-style shirt on chest with imperial chain coif supported by a bottle of flin

Removed MK "Shor" book from "Selyn Farmstead, Varn's House" and placed a few religious texts, added some more clutter to his study area

Placed well-hidden dwemer coin & tube in "Rilsoan, Lloris Gilnam's Shack"

Replaced "The Imperial Navy" with "Gospel of St. Seryn" in "Rilsoan, Duln Sirev's Shack"

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:30 am

Great work on this so far. Some comments:

It might seem like a minor alteration, but I think Saveri Plantation should be changed to Saveri Estate. We're trying to create the distinction that the Hlaalu run plantations, while the Indoril run manor estates with land tilled by peasant farmers.

NPC: TR_m3_S_Sambibi - I'm not sure whether we want to have Dunmer slaves working here. It might be best to change them to a regular peasent farmers working for the Saveri family.

NPC: TR_m3_S_Liram - Same case as Sambibi.

NPC: TR_m3_S_Ansansi - Same case as Sambibi

Thirr River Valley 7, -30 60892, -242118, 402 - Is there a reason for these door markers linking to empty interior cells sitting out by themselves? Is it for dialogue filtering to unnamed cells, or something?

Rats · Post by **Rats** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:33 pm

Yeti wrote:Saveri Plantation should be changed to Saveri Estate

this is pretty good an idea. simple yet efficient.

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:28 pm

Yeti wrote: Thirr River Valley 7, -30 60892, -242118, 402 - Is there a reason for these door markers linking to empty interior cells sitting out by themselves? Is it for dialogue filtering to unnamed cells, or something?

The cell is there for dialogue filtering (none of these locations will have their own map markers), the door is there for playtesting (coc "Velonith Farmstead").

RE:Slaves, The only problem is that the Estate's "Slave Shack" interior is very... slavey. Three bedrolls, all cramped together, no accommodations except for a table with three plates of food on it. The two bedrolls in the manor's interior scream "slave" too, but those could be easily replaced. Only reason most of the slaves are Dunmer is that I read in one of the planning threads that the majority of Indoril slaves are Dunmer. Also refer to second-to-last post in this planning thread:

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24011

Gnomey wrote: Indoril slaves fulfill much the same role as Indoril peasants, but have even less (no?) rights. They are owned by the estate owner (=Indoril noble), and have to work the estate in return for food and shelter (usually. Naturally, it's less of a give-and-take and more of a you-have-no-choice-in-the-matter).

What if I were to remove the slave bracers, but keep them under the "slave" class and remove the one Bosmer slave & her bedroll? Also change the two Ashlander names to regular names. Might fit in better with this vision.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:21 pm

Not everything in the planning thread is set in stone. Still, it might be interesting to implement Dunmer slaves on a limited but perceptible scale in Indoril lands. Having the slaves be from Ashlander lineage would make sense in this case. Perhaps we should discuss this further in the Master Planning section. We really should set in stone how certain races are enslaved and where slaves of certain races should be found.

For now, leave the slaves as is. I'm glad you took the time to read the planning thread before claiming. I like modders who do their research.

Post by **Gnomey** » Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:56 pm

As far as my post is concerned, I was not actually suggesting that slaves would be Dunmer, just that their role would be very similar to that of Dunmer Indoril peasants to an outside observer. Slaves might live in cramped quarters or pens and work the fields for the estate lords, while Indoril peasants might live in cramped houses and maybe sometimes boarding houses and work the fields for the estate lords.
(There are clear distinctions between the two, though. They're just fairly easy to miss).
I'd actually imagine that House Indoril would have very few Dunmer slaves working the fields as Indoril would generally be able to get away with calling them 'peasants' instead.

In the case of the Saveri Estate, keeping Salms Ulvani as a Dunmer peasant or retainer and making the slaves in the slave shack mostly or all Argonian would be how I would go about it. Something to keep in mind, though, is that the estate manor would typically only be where the estate lord lives, with most of its yield probably being used for subsistence. It would have a higher percentage of household slaves (hence the bedrolls in the manor) and might indeed have a higher percentage of unusual races.
The 'Farmstead's would probably grow the crops intended for export, and I would consider calling them 'Commune's or something like that instead.

Another problem is that the exteriors and interiors of those settlements were made before the idea that Indoril practice communal farming was established. I don't think the interiors or exteriors need much changing, other than perhaps adding one or two details, but NPCs could probably use some discussion. (Should the farmsteads have something like a hetman, for instance?)

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:48 am

Considering the communal nature of the farms, I don't suppose naming them after one of the families within would fit well either? Maybe naming them after minor religious figures (not saints)?

What kinds of ext/int details would reinforce collectivism?

Also, concerning the Dunmer slaves thing, I read it somewhere else in planning - it might have just been a random idea to make the Indoril "weirder" that caught my eye. Anyway, I'll change them.

gro-Dhal · Post by **gro-Dhal** » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:23 am

It's not like Soviet communal farming. The farmland is owned by a lord, and the tenants have small portions of the land to work on. The farms should probably be named after their landowner and have more farmers maybe.

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:58 am

Update, dirty. Slaves changed + generic Velonith Commune dialogue (greeting + services). Creaturing close to completion, I think. Lightly populated, most creatures are friendly, and some of the hostile creatures won't spawn unless you're > level 1.

I also added a little treasure trove near Saveri Estate, in an area where it seemed like there should be a little something, coordinates: Thirr River Valley (12,-27) 100043 -215066 1320

As for dialogue, I don't think Selyn Commune, Rilsoan, or Saveri Estate warrant anything special unless faction quests take place in them. Several factions could possibly have quests in this area.

To that end, I think the player could be tasked with recruiting Varn Selyn for the Mages Guild. I also think the tomb next to Saveri Estate (TR_i3-520-Ind) would be an excellent tomb robbing location for the OE thieves' guild.

To do:
Remaining dungeons
Velonith Farmstead quest

EDIT: will likely be changing Velonith/Selyn back to "farmstead" or "farm".

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:40 am

Done with work on this file, pending review or new interiors merged. All NPC'd except for i3-729 (abandoned adamantium mine), which may end up being moved elsewhere. Quest "A Miner's Trial" for Velonith Farmstead complete.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:13 pm

Great! I'll comment on this later tonight or tomorrow, or whenever I can find time.

Post by **rot** » Fri May 02, 2014 3:56 pm

on quest:

- perhaps local latest rumor could mildly hint towards the neighbour? Unlikely for a player to visit all those shacks otherwise

TR_m3_Rolvyn_Saldro, "Velms - Velms Maloren's got a lot of nerve living here after the life he's lead." = led?

in_velothismall_fresco_02 Velonith Farmstead, Velms Maloren's House 3997 3818 15684 "journal entry about the mural ''I found a basement'' is triggered even while staying on the entry floor, can strengthen with position checks (eg Z to make sure PC went down, X?Y? check for PC actually having entered the basement)"

unrelated:

in_velothismall_dj_01 Velonith Farmstead, Velms Maloren's House 4288 3712 15553 "can this be lifted a bit? sometimes getting stuck. set scale 1.15 - set z pos 15553"

misc_hook Selyn Farmstead, Varn's House 3988 3474 15581 "these hooks"
misc_hook Selyn Farmstead, Varn's House 4440 3678 15639 "are pickable for some reason (and owned)"
misc_hook Selyn Farmstead, Varn's House 4398 3680 15566 "should prolly just be static"

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Sat May 03, 2014 2:12 am

How about just having the journal trigger upon activating the door?

Edit: nevermind, i don't think there was a door. Will fix the thing.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Sun May 04, 2014 10:23 pm

Great work on this, Tondollari. You have a good eye and aesthetic taste for placing and designing npcs. Your dialogue is concise and delightful.

First off, all TR-related dialogue should be placed within the BEGIN TR MAP_ and END TR MAP_ tags at the top of the listing for the respective map. Thankfully, you don't have a lot of dialogue in this file, so it shouldn't be too much of a hassle to fix.

I think it would be best to make Hloris a non-slave servant. We haven't decided on a clear concept for Dunmer slaves yet. We don't even know where human or elvish slaves come from for that matter.

TR_i3-729-Ind needs to be populated, named and path-gridded.

TR_m3_O_Galms_Ovalyn needs a TR NPC script

You should give the farmstead npcs an alternate greeting so they aren't always saying hello to the player with the same exact words.

"Velonith Farmstead, Muddunshipal Egg Mine" should use leveled creatures instead of static ones.

I believe our standard is that even small interiors should have pathgrids. A number of the shacks and velothi ints don't have any.

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Sun May 04, 2014 11:21 pm

Yeti: Greetings 7 has two "BEGIN TR MAP3 LOCAL GREETINGS", one right before Sailen's dialogue and the other right before a hodgepodge of m2 and m3 dialogue. My entries are between those two. I cannot find the relevant placeholder entries for Greetings 5, but my entries are next to Evos quest greetings. Unsure where proper placement would be in either case.

i3-729 has an uncertain future. Rot & I have considered moving it elsewhere, because an abandoned Adamantium mine seems like it should have more planning behind it - not just lying out in the wilderness for exploration with no apparent ties to the locals. Unless a good background for its current placement is developed, it will be relocated.

Also "You should give the farmstead npcs an alternate greeting so they aren't always saying hello to the player with the same exact words." This greeting is already conditioned on first meeting, so afterwards they'd use generic greetings. Acceptable?

Will fix other issues.