Sailen NPC Changes

[Tondollari]

I would like to work on Sailen, Evos, & Fort Umbermoth's dialogue and characters.

First, I would like to disconnect Sailen&Umbermoth. This means Sailen residents generally not talking about it unless provoked by the player (topic "fort umbermoth" or something). This would also mean changing some NPCs/backstory:

_Replacing Umbermoth legionnaire TR_m3_Mothas_Sarem with somebody else. He's a son of a Sailen family, who live a stone's throw away from the fort. This family, when you talk to them, will talk about how much they hate him. Mothas' abandoning of his family & traditional values by joining the Legion is exceptional, but not farfetched. His family bringing it up at the drop of a hat and him "moving out" to a fort right down the street are pushing it. Removing him and preserving his character for another fort (where he could talk about his faraway family that abandoned him) would be best, I think. Alternatively, he could have been shipped to Vvardenfell and gotten corprus - news the Umbermoth legionaires wouldn't want to share with the family speedily - legion quest hook?

_The fort is in a dishevelled state, but none of the occupants really talk about it. The reason for this shouldn't be lack of discipline or corruption, already present in the dilapidated "Windmoth Legion Fort" up north. Instead, I suggest that the Empire is slowly abandoning the fort, moving soldiers to less peaceful, more strategically important areas. Veteran commander Cinia Andacia is overwhelmed with the new responsibilities from being short-staffed. To make the fort seem more abandoned I suggest removing a few of the guards and one of the merchants.

_Work on improving dialogue for quest TR_m3_Er_Prayer.

_Other stuff.

[arvisrend]

I guess my opinion by now is "as long as it doesn't destroy existing quests which are not totally crap, it's fine". And I know you as a great dialogue writer, so we certainly won't be off worse. Particularly whatever you can do to make the ghosts in the quest sound more archaic is highly appreciated.

The corprus idea is interesting. Is this the kind of quest that can wait until the player also gets infected?

[Tondollari]

If it were implemented it would be part of the Legion questline, so maybe not? Corprus wouldn't have to be a part of it, he could also be MIA, presumed dead.

If a Legion questline were implemented, Umbermoth's quests would be themed around people moving out & the consequences of an understaffed fort.

[Tondollari]

General outline of major changes to complete.


General NPC/dialogue work


Delete all of the slaves. Evos and Sailen have large farmer/commoner populations, with no need for slaves.

Change some of the last names around, or make backstory to explain them (Some of the residents share the same last name with no explanation, most notably the Bradyn family that owns one shop and three houses.)

Clear out topic "Cinia Andacia"

Clear out all of the Sarem family dialogue. The Sarems will be made generic filler NPCs like their neighbors, unless questing is done with them.

Replace or alter existing dialogue as needed. There's a good bit of dialogue in this area that might be changed. Do I need to provide a changelog?

Replace wild guars in the vicinity of Sailen/Evos with peaceful ones.

Fix/add interior pathgrids.


Sailen work


Write dialogue exploring the relationship between the "old money" Delvas family and the "new money" Rurvayn family.

Delete TR_m3_Casto & TR_m3_Sapphia


Umbermoth work


Delete some of the guards.

Delete TR_m3_Ennah (smith service), TR_m3_Mothas_Sarem, TR_m3_Clodian, TR_m3_Vevul_Gilnith


Evos work


Bring more farmers out to work in the fields.

Change any dialogue referring to Evos as a "mining town" (See Endavel Egg Mine below).


Quest work


For the quest "Save a Prayer", Duram's slave lover Ladianna will be changed to a free Imperial citizen visiting "Sailen, The Toiling Guar", the backstory being some love-at-first-sight kinda deal over a jug of Mazte. Duram is too poor to own a slave even if slaves made sense in this area.


Interior work


Change shop cell names to "Place, Name: Trade" format instead of "Place, Trade"

"Enravel Egg Mine" From what I can tell, this egg mine used to be in Evos but was relocated to the tip of the "Peninsula of Veloth", a very remote location. However, it appears that it was mistakenly not cleansed of Evos NPCs. Will delete NPCs and change to a hostile egg mine.

"Necrom Lighthouse, Entrance Hall" Nonexistant, but still present in data and NPCd. Will clear out obsolete dialogue.

"Herothran Egg Mine" I think this was supposed to be close to Necrom Lighthouse. It is now in the middle of nowhere on the Nedothril coast, but still populated by NPCs. The NPCs don't make much sense being there, but the interior calls for them. Considering the changes that may be coming for Nedothril coast, and that there are two other egg mines nearby already, I suggest reserving this interior for when a populated egg mine is needed elsewhere.

"Rurvyn Egg Mine" change to Pasib Egg Mine

[Yeti]

Do I need to provide a changelog?

I'd say so, yes.

These changes all sound fine to me. Concerning removing the egg mine, I'm fine with it, but make sure to save the interior. We really need a thread for gathering orphaned interiors together so they aren't wasted.

Has Andres Indoril's lesbian couple been kept? I seem to recall him heavily advocating for their inclusion when this was last up for NPCing.

[Gnomey]

Delete all of the slaves. Evos and Sailen have large farmer/commoner populations, with no need for slaves.

I'd generally be against this in Indoril settlements, but this particular area does look very barren. I'd still consider keeping the slaves, though, and would consider at some point either somewhat expanding the farmlands or making most of the commoners guar herders while the slaves till the fields.
I do certainly think that no commoner or farmer should have a personal slave, though. And for the time being, I suppose getting rid of the slaves is probably still the better option.

Sailen work


Write dialogue exploring the relationship between the "old money" Delvas family and the "new money" Rurvayn family.

I wouldn't mind hearing how exactly you plan to handle this, as I'm not sure if it's a particularly Indoril theme. I'm not against it, though.

"Enravel Egg Mine" From what I can tell, this egg mine used to be in Evos but was relocated to the tip of the "Peninsula of Veloth", a very remote location. However, it appears that it was mistakenly not cleansed of Evos NPCs. Will delete NPCs and change to a hostile egg mine.

"Necrom Lighthouse, Entrance Hall" Nonexistant, but still present in data and NPCd. Will clear out obsolete dialogue.

Is there any lore behind the 'Peninsula of Veloth'? It seems like either a very generic name, or very 'epic' name, or arguably both. It looks as though the lighthouse was originally going to be located there. If that is no longer the case, I'd consider removing the name. That might be outside of the scope of what you plan on doing, though.

I'd generally argue that it is fine to have egg mines operating far from any settlement. There are many examples of such egg mines on Vvardenfell, and I don't see why things would be any different on the mainland, which is supposed to be safer and more settled on the whole.
In the case of the Enravel Egg Mine, though, I agree that its location really is much too isolated at the moment, and that it would probably be better as a hostile mine. I'm not sure whether the same can be said for the Herothran Egg Mine, though, which is located in flat, accessible terrain and isn't really that far from Sailen. I'd consider keeping it populated with NPCs.

The rest of the changes sound good to me.

[Yeti]

The Peninsula of Veloth marks where Veloth supposedly departed Morrowind, continuing his wandering farther into the east.

[Gnomey]

I was thinking that might be the case. It strikes me a little strange that it points south rather than east, but oh well. I do think this is one of the rare occasions where I really think some sort of shrine or other sign of pilgrimage is necessary, though.

[Tondollari]

Has Andres Indoril's lesbian couple been kept? I seem to recall him heavily advocating for their inclusion when this was last up for NPCing.

The lesbian couple are still there, but the dildos were removed in the latest ML file. Will delete one of the occupants, "Sapphia", unless there are objections.

Gnomey, re: eggmines, I think the one on the Nedorthril coast should be moved elsewhere mostly because the two closest dungeons to it are also egg mines. But, moving it elsewhere is outside the scope of this project, so it is just a suggestion.

Also, re:Peninsula of Veloth, that does sound like an important place so a shrine should definitely be considered. But would such a shrine be cheapened by the presence of holy Necrom? Maybe part of the backstory of Necrom's sacredness could involve Veloth's parting? The city could have been founded there in part because Veloth "departed" from his children nearby.

Also, re:"new money", In existing dialogue the Rurvayns moved in from Almalexia recently, where the head of family was an Ordinator of War. New dialogue regarding them would mention how the Rurvayns have been a boon to Sailen, cooperating with the Delvas family, improving the town's standard of living through charity, Temple work, and such. Does that sound good?

[rot]

lesbian couple

that's not a lesbian couple, that's a stereotypical adolescent boy's pr0n-fueled conception of a lesbian diddlefest. Dildoes were merely tucked under pillows as a provisory measure.

but to clarify, there's nothing wrong with the idea of a dildo collection, or a lesbian couple, or cheesy dialogue, or gimmicky interioring. I would've cheered and hooted at the idea of dildoes everywhere; this was just the worst possible way of doing each and any of these things. It's not even a good interior (row of dildoes in an otherwise properly cluttered int? would've been fine) - score of pillows thrown around, which is and looks terrible and calls more attention to itself than it desrves, some objects standing out of everything else spread around for you to look at and make it clear what's the one and only purpose of this whole thing, "Oh I forgot to look the door" wink wink nudge nudge "Care to join?". It's bad quality, obvious to a cringe-inducing degree, and not even uncommon enough in its bad taste to be funny because of how stupid it is (which is sadly not the sort of comedy it was reaching for anyway). It's the interior equivalent of every NPC greeting you with "Vivec murdered Nerevar, go speak to him, one of his balls is yellow and the other is blue" except vivec who says "Go to RM and kill Dagoth Ur because he is evil! My cock is bicolored too" and ur "Vivec lies, both his balls are blue! but I'm still evil"

/rant

[Yeti]

I fully agree concerning the stupidity of it and how it doesn't fit the location at all. Although I often appreciate Andres Indoril's quirky sense of humor, I think we can all comfortably agree that he overdoes it sometimes.

[Gnomey]

Gnomey, re: eggmines, [...]

Ah, if that's the case then using the interior elsewhere seems like a good idea.

Also, re:Peninsula of Veloth, [...]

Either way making any actual changes to it would probably be outside of the scope of what you plan on doing. Hopefully the matter will be brought up again in connection with the Temple questline or something.

Also, re:"new money", [...]

Yeah, that sounds good.

[Sload]

The Peninsula of Veloth marks where Veloth supposedly departed Morrowind, continuing his wandering farther into the east.

Hey, I don't like this!

Veloth continuing further east is secret apocrypha denied by the Temple. Its not supposed to be the standard, known account, but (if it is incorporated into TR) something the player learns somehow. The Temple hold that Morrowind is the chosen land that Veloth travelled to where the Tribunal would achieve his Endeavor and guide the Chimer/Dunmer as the chosen people of forever. The Temple cannot hold that Veloth kept travelling east, what does that make them for not following him?

The Temple's position is that Necrom was the end of the line for Veloth. That's why its a holy site. Probably he died there; that's why its where they do death rites. Probably he was walking until he died as well.

[Yeti]

Thanks for the clarification Sload. I thought the story about Veloth continuing his path eastward was odd in terms of its relation to Morrowind as a promised land. It makes sense for it to be apocrypha. I was merely posting what I remembered someone else saying.

[Tondollari]

Here is the plan for a redesign of the quest "Save a Prayer".

Ladianna will be changed to a traveling Paladin in the service of Stendarr, killing Daedra worshipers throughout the province. She is staying at the Toiling Guar. She talks about how the people in Sailen are all heretics, except for her darling Duram Balvel, who disavowed the Tribunal and pledged loyalty to her. One night, while they were intimate in Duram's bedroom, a ghost was unexpectedly summoned, shouting horrible curses and attacking Ladianna. She dispatched it easily, but Duram was shocked by the incident. He no longer talks to Ladianna, and spends his days toiling on his farm in Evos.

The player hears all this and heads to Evos to speak with Duram Balvel. Duram takes a bit of coaxing, but reveals that one of his ancestral spirits assaulted Ladianna to protect him from perceived impurity/heresy. The player is given directions to the Balvel Ancestral Tomb.

In the tomb, the player will talk to one of the Balvel spirits. Eventually, they consider the possibility of leaving Duram & Ladianna alone, but under the condition that he serves his ancestors eternally after his death. Guaranteeing this involves getting Duram to give up one of his bones for some sort of ritual. (Thanks Gnomey for this idea!)

The player returns to Duram and convinces him to cut off his pinky toe. The player gives it to the ancestors and they free Duram to pursue Ladianna. They live happily ever after, and Duram is doomed to become a spirit constantly tormented by his "family". The player receives a paladin-y reward from Ladianna.

Alternatively, the player can pledge to break apart the relationship in service to the Balvel spirits. This would involve killing Ladianna or convincing her to leave. The player would get a suitable reward from the Balvel spirits.

Killing the spirits will not accomplish anything, because they are ghosts.

[Gnomey]

By the way, the applicable lines from [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/ancestors-and-dunmer]Ancestors and the Dunmer[/url]:

Some spirits are bound against their wills to protect family shrines. This unpleasant fate is reserved for those who have not served the family faithfully in life. Dutiful and honorable ancestral spirits often aid in the capture and binding of wayward spirits.

These spirits usually go mad, and make terrifying guardians. They are ritually prevented from harming mortals of their clans, but that does not necessary discourage them from mischievous or peevish behavior.

Bonus points if Duram Balvel's ghost is added to the tomb if Duram Balvel dies after the player completes the quest that way.

Duram Balvel would not serve his ancestors; if anything his surviving family. As in the quote above, though, he'd probably just guard the tomb.

Good call on the pinky toe.

[arvisrend]

Nice work on this, Tondollari. My only worry would be that the pinky-toe thing sounds a bit like (a popular conception of?) voodoo and I am not sure what exactly binds spirits in Morrowind to their ancestors (what would happen if they would retire to Cyrodiil?). Either way, this is so much better than the old quest, with all the good dialogue that it had.

[Talias]

I don't think the pinky thing would be too voodoo-ish. I imagine the ritual could be a simply cremating the pinky-toe and placing the ashes in the ancestral tomb - binding the Duram's spirit there when he dies, since he theoretically would already be entombed there. Something like that seems very suitable for dunmer culture.

[Tondollari]

It's been a month so I guess this is due for an update. I've been mostly inactive this month due to a trip to Florida and my finally deciding to see what this "Minecraft" thing was all about. It took up most of my free time for about two weeks, but now I'm off the hook and will have an update soon. Pretty much all the dialogue is done, now all that's left is scripting for the quest rework.

One thing that might remain underdeveloped is dialogue about the reigning nobles. Sailen having two noble manors is a bit awkward & the nobles might need more consideration further down the line.