thread in the officials

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Swiftoak
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thread in the officials

Post by Swiftoak »

So there's been some nastiness popping up in our vision thread on the officials.

It surrounds the controversy regarding future integration with Vvardenfell. What seems to have occured is some kind of proxy tit-for-tat where non-TR members who like the change of vision are fighting with other non-TR members who are more apprehnesive over issues regarding mod compatibility. At least one or two individuals have taken this very harshly and have responded in kind.

There have been threats regarding people uninstalling TR over feeling like we're giving ourselves carte-blanche to not care about other mods. Or people thinking we're gonna change the story 180 degrees. Both these assumptions are incorrect and completely contrarian to what we stated.

Now while alot of what people are saying are wrong (or unfounded, such as in the case of some people thinking vanilla content should always take precedence over what we do), clearly there's a shit ton of confusion and I think we can attribute this to the lack of actual TR developers commenting about people's concerns and clarifying our position. Instead, some members (affiliated and otherwise) are not being helpful by being very confrontative towards the initial misunderstandings, fanning furher confusion and misunderstanding.

Also if any of you are actually the ones claiming to defend TR's position, please try not to be so confrontational. It would be nice if a Senior or Lead Developer with access to the officials make a clear, short, concise post to clear the air. Because some of the responses from our side have been taking a very accusatory tone. (IE bashing people with long mod lists, calling people entitled for bringing up legitimate concerns, or accusing people of knowing nothing because they dont work for us)

I know this is "the internet" but I expect a level of decency from people on our side (TR or otherwise). I'm fairly ashamed that this is the public face we choose to put on when the first disagreement pops up. We need to rein those in who are doing this, and distancing ourselves from those who are not part of TR and making these inflamatory statements. Let's try not to make this personal people.


Anyways, these are the points I feel we need to clarify.
  • We are not going to be changing the general themes presented in the original game. Our edits to vanilla content will be examined on a case-by-case basis. We will not be changing the plot substantially.
  • These changes and vanilla implementation are very far off, so there will not be any short-medium term issues reagarding compatibility in the foreseeable future. Please do not panic. We will cross that bridge whgen we get there. These are not concrete plans, simply a statement of our end goal.
  • Any incompatibilites that arise will be discussed and addressed to the community in an open, transparent matter. We're letting people know in advance so there are no nasty surprises. If we did not care, we would not have informed you of this decision.
  • We intend to work with mod authors whenever possible should any major conflicts arise. However, at the end of the day, the nature of Tamriel Rebuilt is to provide a cohesive Morrowind game had it included the Mainland, and we cannot build our world around all existing mods. There has to be some balance somewhere in between catering to everyone's tastes, and expanding the gameworld in a meanigful way. This process has to be organic.
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Sload
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Post by Sload »

we dont need to explain ourselves to "SkyShadowing," but someone should clarify that Tamriel Rebuilt has no intention of being hard incompatible with any other mod and has every intention of making soft incompatibility optional when possible, and probably you will need to explain the difference between hard and soft incompatibility

i dont want TR developers wasting their time and possibly eroding our position by debating TR's vision on TESF. TR determines its goals and visions internally, someone who does not have access to the Internal Discussion forum at TR does not have a right to participate in deciding the vision and we should not elevate them to that level.

If someone wants, they could tell him to read our fucking master planning forum because his example of House Redoran is exactly the example of what we are not doing.
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Swiftoak
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Post by Swiftoak »

Yeah I'm certainly not stepping onto that minefield. And I agree with Sload, I don't want our already thinly stretched team to waste more time and energy in forum circlejerking. I just wanted to clarify our position and move on from what is clearly a huge misunderstanding. The main problem I have is not us, nor am I pointing fingers. I just don't want nonTR people/uninformed people extrapolating certain things and blowing them up into completely false statements of fact. (like the people saying this is arrogant or assuming we're giving ourselves carte-blanche to step on everything and everyone, that this will destroy TR, etc. How many times do you think that song's been sung?).

And it's not really helpful that some TR members are exacerbating the situation by partaking in confrontational actions and blowing this up needlessly (even if their intentions are well). Seriously, I'm not saying this because I have anything against you, but some of you really need to think twice before posting.
"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
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Melchior Dahrk
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Post by Melchior Dahrk »

I'm not apologizing for my comments, but I certainly wasn't trying to affiliate myself directly with TR as I stated my opinion on the matter - most people aren't largely aware of my TR Modder status after all. I myself often forget since I contribute on such an impromptu basis. So I hope that the rest of the team doesn't feel that I, personally, put TR in a bad light. :)

The whole conservative vs. liberal debate in the modding community is something of a thorn in my side and I find it hard to stay out of discussions surrounding it. Since I've seen it depress, scare off, and demoralize many a modder. The statement of vision thread was simply the latest time the discussion blossomed - or perhaps I should say festered and so I jumped in.

With that said, it was a bit frustrating that no one aside from Aeven from TR was doing anything to assuage concerns. I think it'd be a very simple thing to say "Tamriel Rebuilt has no intention of rewriting all the major faction quest lines from scratch. We have the greatest respect for Bethesda's depiction of Vvardenfell and its inhabitants. Any changes made to Vvardenfell and its expansions will be the product of extensive discussion. We encourage you to read our Master Planning documents - which are available to everyone - to better understand our vision."

Done. That's all that was needed. End of discussion. Unfortunately, Aeven's statement mid-thread just seemed to ignite concerns even more.

I can appreciate not wanting to get distracted by frivolous discussions on another forum, but I believe this one in particular merited special attention. As I said above, 1 minute of time for someone with a TR badge to alleviate concern.
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Post by Yeti »

Sload wrote:If someone wants, they could tell him to read our fucking master planning forum because his example of House Redoran is exactly the example of what we are not doing.
Can non-developers download attachments on the forum? Most of the concrete details in the Great House brainstorming threads, for instance, are outlined in pdf files. Can normal members read those?
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Post by Swiftoak »

Yes I can. I tried it once when I was logged off, it should be fine.

Melchior, it's fine, there was nothing to apologize for on your part anyways. It's not you I was really concerned about. It was mostly just a particular comment or two bashing mod users for having long load lists. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear in my initial post. I think we need to designate somebody who is a Lead or Senior developer to head out on BGS and handle all our PR there. I would myself except I dont want to create another account since this is the only forum I visit. Unless we want to just create an official "TR" account that any of the leads can use. Might give us a bit more credibility than individual users posting.
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Melchior Dahrk
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Post by Melchior Dahrk »

Swiftoak Woodwarrior wrote:Unless we want to just create an official "TR" account that any of the leads can use. Might give us a bit more credibility than individual users posting.
This is what I was thinking.
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