(Obsolete) Almalexia Discussion [Formerly M3A6 thread]

Why · Post by **Why** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:16 pm

I was going to mention how Port Telvannis consists of three different levels that randomly overlap each other and make navigation difficult and then realized how Almalexia is exactly the same. Hehe.

Still though, the easiest way to fix those navigation issues is to add a whole bunch of gondolas and rickshaws to form a big and convenient fast travel network - not the crappy limited-to-four-destinations cell-names-only thing vanilla used, but a more elegant solution. Actually, I'll try and build something, it's kind of hard to explain. It might just solve all our problems.

Why · Post by **Why** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:13 pm

Here's a test file for the solution I had in mind. coc "TR Testing Cell" and talk to the gondolier like you would to a normal travel service.

Tes96 · Post by **Tes96** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:02 pm

Sload wrote:I don't agree. A major questgiver and plot point needs to be easy to locate. This city is huge and difficult to navigate, and this interior is already in a tricky to arrive at nook.

Have you ever read the dialog in that mess Port Telvannis where people try to give the player directions? Go up the root until you get to a plaza by so and so's house, then keep going over the bridge and around the spiral to your left and blah blah blah yeah I'm going to remember that shit. nevermind your cool city let me go kill monsters.

I disagree. Just because something is a major quest does not mean that it should be easy to locate. Killing Dagoth Ur was the main quest of the whole game and look how hard that was to find. Or Atreyu searching for a cure for the Empress in The Neverending Story. It took him the whole entire movie. :p
My point being, don't simply things just so the player can hurry up and finish the quest.
But I agree with your second paragraph; the directions NPCs give should be improved.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:43 pm

I am not sure I'm getting this discussion right, but: no matter whether the Sandil guy is easy to randomly stumble upon or not, any quest that leads to him will include reasonable and correct directions to his whereabouts; there is no point in sending the player on a scavenger hunt when you want him to get some work done. That is, unless he is hiding like Dram Bero and the questgiver himself has no idea where he is.

Post by **arvisrend** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:02 pm

Assorted bugs:

Look at Container TR_m3_q_A6_AndrasChest, check its "Info" and compare the stuff nearby in the two cells which have it. Looks like cookie-cuttering, doesn't it? I'd remove one of the two uses and add some more variation to the rock structures.

Also, Container TR_m3_q_A6_AndrasChest should be renamed just "Wooden Chest". It's fine to have a unique container here and there, but Andras is no longer an NPC and the quest doesn't exist anymore.

TR_terrain_AI_rock_01 xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (14,-32) 121630 -259724 2606 "casper"

Terrain_rocks_AI_03 xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-32) 156541 -258161 1015 "casper"

TR_Terr_RockStairs_AI TR_Mournhold Region1 (24,-24) 200229 -190306 2419 "something's invisible collision blocks the way to these stairs (from the lower end)" This something is the terrain_rock_ai_12 to the right of these stairs; it has a pretty generous collision box.

In_MH_door_01 TR_i3-424 Grand Ascendant's Manor 4480 5321 15680 "needs to be linked, since the relevant door on the ext is" or maybe the whole int goes to hell?

In_MH_door_02 TR_i3-108_15 4096 4480 15360 "bleeds with table when opened"

In_MH_door_02 TR_i3-108_15 4288 4160 15360 "this room is inaccessible without jumping"

flora_stoneflower_01 TR_Mournhold Region1 (26,-32) 215367 -256541 390 "this and 3 others nearby float"

terrain_rock_ai_11 TR_Map3 (23,-33) 196494 -265710 1622 "float"

Terrain_rocks_AI_02 TR_Map3 (23,-33) 196248 -263472 788 "casper"

flora_tree_ai_01 XXXXXAlmalexia (23,-32) 196273 -261138 1158 "lots'o'floats"

flora_stoneflower_02 XXXXXAlmalexia (23,-32) 195719 -260059 1106 "floats"

flora_heather_01 XXXXXAlmalexia (22,-32) 184059 -260977 1049 "float"

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:21 pm

Kowloon replaced by floating market thingy + ruin stuff.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:27 pm

One of the aqueduct pieces (TR_ex_ind_aquaduct) used to make a sort of "antechamber" to the city entrance in the south is not aligned to the other. Specifically, the one that is nearly entirely in the western TR_ex_ind_tower03 in (23, -31).

Tes96 · Post by **Tes96** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:40 am

MMMowSkwoz wrote:Yep, they don't work perfectly. The levitation thing shouldn't be aproblem since levitation is going to be banned in Almalexia, but the other one is. I gave up after a while thinking that if someone tries this hard to get over, they're breaking reality anyway. No-one is going to accidentally use a 100 point jump spell from a nearby building.

If you want, I can have a another look at them though.

Why is levitation being banned in Almalexia?
Also, I don't see why we should have barriers in the fake Mournhold. If people want to jump (with skill at 500) or levitate their way over the walls then they should have that option. We all know it's not the real Mournhold and that you have to enter through the doors to enter the real one. I've always hated invisible barriers. It's like the creators way of inadvertently telling you how to play.
But even if they are in the final release, I'll just delete them for my own personal gaming experience.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:59 am

Tes96 wrote:Why is levitation being banned in Almalexia?

Almalexia is self-conscious, and in a fit during her period one month, she used magic to restrict levitation in the entire capital city, so that no one could be above her while in her city.

Tes96 · Post by **Tes96** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:23 am

Haplo wrote:
Tes96 wrote:Why is levitation being banned in Almalexia?
Almalexia is self-conscious, and in a fit during her period one month, she used magic to restrict levitation in the entire capital city, so that no one could be above her while in her city.

That sounds like sarcasm to me. I don't see how you would "ban" levitation and have it function as a game mechanic, other than having denizens mention that it is not allowed in Almalexia. Whatever the outcome, it's always modifiable in the end.

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:52 am

Well the real reason is that the Tribunal developers put Mournhold in an interior cell so levitation has to be disabled otherwise you can just levitate right out of the cell. Obviously this explanation is not lore-friendly, so the above explanation is the "in world" reason.

Tes96 · Post by **Tes96** » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:42 am

Haplo wrote:Well the real reason is that the Tribunal developers put Mournhold in an interior cell so levitation has to be disabled otherwise you can just levitate right out of the cell. Obviously this explanation is not lore-friendly, so the above explanation is the "in world" reason.

Oh, I thought you were joking with your previous post.
Huh, I never knew you couldn't levitate in Mournhold. I've never tried it before, apart from jumping super high.

Question, will the sky in the Interior Mournhold match the sky outside of the dummy Mournhold? Like, if I exit Mournhold, will the sky still look the same?

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:54 am

Is Nemon's Aug 06, 2013 file the latest version of this? I'd like to make sure that I will be splitting the Othrensis cells from the right file.

Post by **arvisrend** » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:59 pm

Moar issues:

Terrain_rocks_AI_03 RAISEMEUPAAAAA (16,-32) 133125 -256550 274 "weird cell name, and detailing!"

Terrain_rocks_AI_01 xxxTR_map3 (18,-26) 151636 -206426 1111 "detailing!"

TR_flora_tree11_ND TR_map3 (16,-28) 133854 -224837 847 "detailing!"

flora_emp_parasol_02 TR_map3 (15,-27) 129234 -217670 732 "detailing!"

EX_MH_door_02 Othrensis (15,-29) 127313 -235142 857 "move this door"

in_velothi_ashpit_01 Othrensis, Temple 1024 -128 0 "int somewhat barren, the potion bookshelf doesn't help very much... but some stools and tables might do"

flora_corkbulb xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-29) 156298 -230255 873 "lots of stuff floating here"

TR_terrain_AI_rock_02 xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-27) 161143 -219446 1076 "Casper"

Terrain_rocks_AI_02 TR_Map3 (14,-27) 120331 -217876 974 "casper"

furn_de_r_chair_03 Othrensis, The Dancing Dish 4306 3861 15689 "this and various other refs bleed through the floor"

Terrain_rocks_AI_04 TR_map3 (15,-30) 129072 -242809 9 "casper"

Terrain_rocks_AI_03 xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-32) 156541 -258161 1015 "casper"

TR_terrain_AI_rock_18 XXXXXAlmalexia (22,-27) 180660 -218164 724 "doesnt fully cover the landscape falloff"

Ex_MH_doorjamb_03 coccell (23,-26) 195168 -209008 566 " no ceiling"

furn_de_tapestry_02 Othrensis, Temple 689 795 -153 "wut"

TR_terrain_AI_rock_13 XXXXXAlmalexia (24,-28) 203819 -224059 1676 "floating"

flora_tree_ai_03 XXXXXAlmalexia (23,-32) 193256 -261231 1471 "float"

ex_imp_wall_01 TRFort Lutemoth (18,-28) 150764 -225835 2445 "caspers"

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:46 pm

Just to remind ourselves: this needs alteration on the western border to create a small road to Roa Dyr. This also needs to be done on the other side (A3), for reference.

Post by **rot** » Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:02 pm

Yeti wrote:Is Nemon's Aug 06, 2013 file the latest version of this? I'd like to make sure that I will be splitting the Othrensis cells from the right file.

Yes Moderator edit: But not anymore, now that Nemon is working on it. Please don't split or edit the file! -- arvis

Old betacomments I just rediscovered.

_ many ext doors are slightly too large or don't fit their frame models (compared to their MH placement),
EX_MH_door_02 XXXXXAlmalexia (25,-27) 211623 -219376 784 "some are inexplicably scaled 1.06, is probably why"
EX_MH_door_02 XXXXXAlmalexia (21,-29) 173853 -236356 1059 " "
EX_MH_door_02 XXXXXAlmalexia (20,-29) 171442 -234606 1249 " "
Ex_MH_Door_01 XXXXXAlmalexia (21,-29) 177522 -235347 2204 " "
Ex_MH_Door_01 XXXXXAlmalexia (21,-29) 178810 -233613 2202 " "
Ex_MH_Door_01 XXXXXAlmalexia (21,-29) 178234 -234584 2204 " "
EX_MH_door_02 XXXXXAlmalexia (25,-27) 212251 -220243 812 " "

tr_ex_ind_s_wall00 coccell (23,-26) 195160 -208456 704 "some open space under this tower lacks a ceiling (casper)"

TR_ex_ind_hwstair XXXXXAlmalexia (21,-30) 179952 -242096 1824 "doesn't join perfectly with..."
TR_ex_ind_hwstair XXXXXAlmalexia (22,-30) 181152 -242096 1168 "... this one, and same with..."
TR_ex_ind_hwstair XXXXXAlmalexia (22,-30) 182352 -242096 512 "... this one (fine lines visible inbetween them from some directions only)"

Ex_MH_Door_01 XXXXXAlmalexia (20,-30) 169948 -240113 1432 "ground slightly bleeding into door"
tr_ex_ind_stair03 XXXXXAlmalexia (20,-30) 171826 -241602 1629 "corner of bottom stair poking out of ground"
EX_MH_door_02 XXXXXAlmalexia (21,-29) 178623 -235199 2190 "wall bleeds out of door"
Ex_MH_Palace_gate XXXXXAlmalexia (24,-26) 202275 -212313 55 "didn't these huge water gates have models made for them?"
Ex_MH_doorjamb_03 XXXXXAlmalexia_Taythionis (25,-29) 208153 -237397 925 "lacks a door"

Terrain_rocks_AI_03 xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-32) 156541 -258161 1015 "floating"
Terrain_rocks_AI_02 TR_Map3 (20,-32) 168050 -255078 902 "land gap nearby"
Flora_emp_parasol_03 TR_Map3 (18,-30) 154040 -239945 1020 "floating"
flora_muckspunge_01 xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-29) 158634 -234184 1042 "floating"
flora_muckspunge_06 xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-29) 157868 -234603 1054 "floating"
flora_muckspunge_02 xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-29) 156754 -234589 1062 "floating"

TR_ex_ind_wall01 XXXXXAlmalexia (24,-28) 202861 -229268 3491 "curiousity - sometimes this doesn't display from below (in the same cell, but when coming from another one). Then just pops up when getting close enough of landing from the top. Not using MGE."

TR_ex_ind_plat04 xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-28) 156774 -225112 238 "this intersection looks WIP?"

ex_wg_cave_entrance_01 TR_map3 (15,-25) 124475 -202413 2495 "floats"
TR_m3a6_active_sign_aldmarak xxxTR_Mournhold Region1 (19,-30) 159586 -239686 992 "Ald Marak?"
flora_bc_mushroom_02 TR_map3 (15,-25) 124604 -199171 396 "floats"
terrain_rock_wg_05 TR_map3 (15,-25) 124534 -199600 672 "casper"
Terrain_rocks_AI_01 TR_map3 (16,-27) 131559 -218431 214 "extremely bare plains"
TR_terrain_AI_rock_09 XXXXXAlmalexia (20,-26) 165458 -205037 3341 "big casper"
TR_terrain_AI_rock_09 XXXXXAlmalexia (20,-26) 166770 -208544 2699 "slight casper, also excessive vertex shading"
flora_bc_shelffungus_01 TR_Map3 (18,-32) 153464 -259380 625 "floating"

interiors

in_MH_doorjamb_01 TR_i3-89 Alma Rula, Entrance Hall -640 1280 0 "set too low, can barely pass"
in_MH_doorjamb_01 TR_i3-89 Alma Rula, Entrance Hall 640 1280 0 "same"
Ex_V_ban_tribunal_01 TR_i3-89 Alma Rula, Entrance Hall -215 2132 224 "should they be flapping?even if so, it makes those banners bleed into walls"

in_MH_int_stairs_01 TR_i3-424 Grand Ascendant's Manor 4992 4416 15808 "pillar flickering"
TR_in_MH_int_stairs_02 TR_i3-424 Grand Ascendant's Manor 3968 4416 15808 "pillar flickering"
in_MH_doorjamb_01 TR_i3-119, Upper Floor 4400 3936 15184 "too low, hard to pass through"

TR_m3_ledger2_i3-330-ind TR_i3-330-Ind 5000 4334 15615 "still named gah'ruhn shipping manifest"
TR_m3_ledger1_i3-330-ind TR_i3-330-Ind 5248 4578 15894 "contents of book also gah'ruhn"

TR_bk_TravelIll1_PY TR_i3-334 3556 4034 14830 "potential trouble with deprecated books that used to be regrouped because they had same cover. Regrouping might be weird and not truly make sense if the replacements aren't part of a series."
TR_misc_toyguar TR_i3-338 4669 4910 15059 "advise against scaling up pickable object so much - if picked and placed back they'll go back to their small size. Should maybe scale them from a script instead?"

furn_de_tapestry_02 Othrensis, Temple 689 795 -153 "this comes through stairs"

Post by **arvisrend** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:09 am

This file could use bugfixing (outside of Alma), detailing (between Alma and Othrensis) and splitting long before we have a final idea what is going to happen with Almalexia.

It could also use some cleaning -- a lot of stuff in the file is crap and should be removed (if unused) or fixed (if used). There is a small chest (TR_m3_chest_smal_repair) containing 15 repair hammers and 5 repair prongs. There is a container corpse carrying 2 potions and a book in its hammerspace. There is an int called "TRgrandas" (TR grand ass?) which appears to be a testing cell. There are two versions of one and the same int claim ("TR_SW i3-369-Ind *" and "Othrensis Grotto*" -- the latter is linked and probably newer, but don't quote me on that). There are "urns with imprisoned souls" (TR_m3_i3-511_lostsouls*) in a "Medium beast cave, home to a well-hidden trainer of the stealth skill", despite the [url=http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19406]current iteration of i3-511[/url] having no such thing. Is it possible that we've merged some revoked old TR ints into this file and forgotten about the new ints that superseded them? It certainly feels like that quality-wise.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:38 am

More likely the old interiors were already in the file when the new ones were added, and the old ones were never cleaned out.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:35 am

Tr grand Ascension, placeholder cell to move usable stuff from Alma 2 to Alma 3.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:25 pm

Old interiors were never cleared out, for 'safety' reasons, whereas several newer ones were merged in.

In any case, where this concerns Othrensis: those should be current, and if anything in there isn't up to snuff, be sure to tell me and I'll make sure they can be reworked/remade.

Post by **rot** » Sun Feb 02, 2014 4:19 pm

Nemon sez Othrensis can be split from the latest file here (Aug). The area in need of detailing is pretty obvious, but

- Is the artistic concept for this region final?

- Should exterior work be done before splitting?
if not, how about this for the cut? orange part could go either way, but there'd always be bits of the region left in the eastern part.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:48 pm

Sorry for the late response. I agree with your map, rot. Look's like a reasonable dividing line to split the files. I'd go with leaving out the orange area for now. Areas that close to Almalexia should be handled simultaneously with the city's sectional work.

Does anyone want to chime in about rot's two questions?

For what it's worth, I think the Mournhold Region's current aesthetics are fine. Even if it isn't the most imaginative region, I like the green colors, and the focus of the area is naturally going to be the city of Almalexia anyway. The surrounding wilderness doesn't have to be awe-inspiring.

Post by **rot** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:11 pm

Swiftoak says,

the river should flow to Almalexia instead of into the Thirr because geo[graphy/logy?]. This sounds like something that would better be done before a split, correct me if I'm wrong,

Also that some rock types have to be changed somewhere, and that this region isn't Thirr River valley (bear with me, maybe someone else didn't know that)

Tes96 · Post by **Tes96** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:39 pm

I don't want to make a whole new topic for just one little placement error, so I'll add to Spiffyman's list.

I found a caspering boulder in Map 3.
x 149944
y -228582
z -1446.42

http://i.imgur.com/bSVrSzF.jpg

AEVEN MOD EDIT: Merged this into a more appropriate topic.

Post by **arvisrend** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:49 am

There is a shitload of unlinked ints in the file. In splitting the file up into Othrensis and Alma, where should they go? There is no obvious way to find out what exts they belong to...

Post by **arvisrend** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:16 am

Still not done, sorry.

What is this?
Static TR_in_m_sewer_column_01G
TR\x\tr_ex_ind_column01.nif

Should this be in TR_Data?

Also, there are some Alma-specific lights:
TR_light_de_lantern_13_128alma
TR_almalight_de_lantern_11
TR_almaLight_De_Lantern_01
TR_almalight_de_lantern_07_warm
TR_m3_Light_MH_streetlamp_01_of

Wondering if they should be in Data?

Post by **arvisrend** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:54 pm

Splitting M3A6, first step: file split into ints and exts.

The attached TR_Data.esm is required. (Or any TR_Data.esm newer than today.)

Post by **arvisrend** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:16 pm

Splitting M3A6, step 2: splitting the ext into Othrensis and Almalexia (everything with x-coordinate <= 18 goes into Othrensis, everything with x-coordinate >= 19 goes into Almalexia).

The Othrensis and Almalexia files have some roadsign activators in common. I don't know what to do with them; both files use them, and we don't usually put them into TR_Data. Just be careful when merging and check that no changes have been lost.

This requires the TR_Data.esm contained in the attached archive (or a newer one). Don't edit without that TR_Data.esm.

Post by **arvisrend** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:32 pm

And now, an attempt at moving all of Almalexia 10 cells to the south to ease up reconstruction of the city.

Unfortunately, due to what I cannot explain by anything other than a tesfaith bug, all land texture has been lost in the moved cells. I assume it's not a big deal because those cannot be copypasted anyway, but just don't be surprised.

Again, new TR_Data as attached in the post above is necessary.

Is this what you wanted, Aeven?

Post by **arvisrend** » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:36 pm

PS, I've removed the TRgrandas cell since I didn't know what file to put it in. If it's useful, let me know and I'll do something about it.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:05 pm

Thanks arvis. I have the files and I will be reposting them in internal.

Tamriel Rebuilt

(Obsolete) Almalexia Discussion [Formerly M3A6 thread]

Placement error