So we should discuss what to do with Indal-rhun (or whatever the hell it will become) since the section it's in is almost ready for NPCing.
What purpose does this town serve in the gameworld? Is it just something that adds some local flavour? How does it relate to the surrounding worldspace and its' master plan. Does the town in its' current iteration fit into our characterization of Hlaalu?
I don't think Indal-rhun necessarily merits alot of attention, due to its' size, though we should come up with something beyond "a small Hlaalu town on the Thirr". I'll list my notes and opinions in the spoilers.
[spoiler]Worldspace
The town is located in a relatively uninhabited part of the TRV, in an off-canal from the Thirr. It is currently a shack village with three Hlaalu structures (a house, a store, and the manor of a Hlaalu noble). Not sure we need another noble here, or whether the style mixing is approporate. Things I'll elaborate in the next section. There needs to be a main road heading south along the banks of the Thirr, and there isn't. The road deadends in the town, and akwardly continues west into what appears to be an outpost of some sort. I think this area could be polished up, as 4-26 always seemed out of place with the rest of the valley both visually and conceptually (It's completely uninhabited save for the town and the dwemer ruin).
Character
Not entirely sold on the idea that this is just some nodescript town where the noble simply spits on the commoners. It seems very out-of-place to me. We don't have to spend alot of time trying to find a high-ass concept for the place, but it should have some value in the game world, as minimal as it is. Perhaps another independent plantation, or some sort of other venture that relates to the local economy. I don't think a shack village works for this.[/spoiler]
Indal-ruhn [Hlaalu Tier IV Settlement]
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Swiftoak
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Indal-ruhn [Hlaalu Tier IV Settlement]
"Idleness and lack of occupation tend - nay are dragged - towards evil."
-Hippocrates
-Hippocrates
Indal-ruhn is currently the only Hlaalu settlement in the Thirr River Valley. It is also the first Hlaalu settlement south of Almas Thirr, as well as being at the southern edge of the Thirr River Valley plantations.
In a broader context, it is a choke-point between House Hlaalu's northern and southern holdings, (along with Ald Erfoud to the west), and is also the nearest Hlaalu settlement to Andothren. Which is to say, it is at the edge of a very broad stretch of virtual non-settlement. (Plantations hardly support a large population. Unless you count the slaves, which in this context one shouldn't).
It may be small, and I think it should stay small, but I think its small size belies its pivotal importance to Hlaalu trade. I think Indal-ruhn is very much worth our attention.
Here's a rather messy proposal, to indicate the kind of changes I had in mind:
[url=http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/Gnomenator/Indal-ruhnProposal.jpg~original][img]http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/Gnomenator/th_Indal-ruhnProposal.jpg[/img][/url]
1. replace the apostrophe in 'Indal'ruhn' with a hyphen.
2. move the buildings around for a tighter and more organic layout.* Currently a lot of buildings are at near-right angles to each other, which, along with the distance between buildings, makes Indal-ruhn look rather dull, in my opinion.
3. add a slave shack, or otherwise provide accommodation for slaves.
4. add some ships and cargo to the dockside.
5. maybe add some sort of terrace ('porch' isn't really the right word, on second thought) north of the manor facing the fields; basically do something with the random bit of paved ground there.
6. remove or improve the currently random-looking stub of road south of Indal-ruhn. I advocate the former. (The blurry red text reads "disjointed bit of road; remove or improve", in case you can't read it).
7. fill out the road west of Indal-ruhn.
Two of the things marked on the map are really part of other discussions:
[spoiler]First, 'change to mainroad'. Currently, Andothren-Thirr is completely lacking mainroads other than the little stub going west from Almas Thirr. I think it needs some, but will elaborate elsewhere.
Second of all, the blurry red note to the left reads "we still need to decide what to do with this...", referring to the stalled [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24311]buffer zone[/url] discussion.[/spoiler]
Neither of them are really important for this discussion, and the second is only marginally important for NPCing.
Finally, just because I haven't written a long post in a while, here are a few ideas on the identity of Indal-ruhn:
[spoiler]I read through the dialogue currently in place. Hopefully I didn't miss anything. I think it works as-is for the most part, requiring adjustments more than replacements.
My concept for Indal-ruhn:
Indal-ruhn is either a Hlaalu cargo port that sprang up around a plantation (unlikely); a settlement belonging to 'Savyani Romalen' (the local noble) through which Hlaalu goods are transported; or a Hlaalu cargo port controlled by Savyani Romalen.
The distinction between the three is as follows:
1. in the first case, Savyani Romalen only owns her manor, any local slaves and the field to the north. The village would either be pseudo-autonomous or controlled by an agent of the Hlaalu Council Company; likely either 'Doval Ralm' (rumoured to be a Hlaalu agent; currently a Hlaalu nightblade) or somebody living far away.
2. in the second case, Savyani Romalen owns the whole settlement, but has limited oversight of the goods passing through the settlement, which would instead probably be controlled by an agent of the Hlaalu Council Company, possibly Doval Ralm.
3. in the third case, Savyani Romalen was probably granted the settlement by the Hlaalu Council Company for the express purpose of directing local trade. She controls everything.
Note that all of those options refer to the nominal role of Savyani Romalen, not her de facto role. In the third case, for example, Savyani Romalen could still be incompetent at or indifferent to her duties, in which case the local trade would either remain uncontrolled or someone else, maybe 'Garvs Anrayn' (her steward) or Doval Ralm, would fill in for her. In other words, the third proposal would functionally be the same as the second proposal.
I think that the current Savyani Romalen works as a character, personally; her function just needs to be clarified.
Would Savyani Romalen be at all connected to Andothren-Thirr politics, or -- as is currently the case -- would she be more tied to Narsis/Othreleth? (Again, ignoring her personal level of involvement in politics, though that's something else that could use discussion). This question is very important in determining what role, if any, she might play in various quests and questlines.
(I mention this mainly because Indal-ruhn is so close to Almas Thirr. If her role is of any importance, she would be more likely to become involved with the Hlaalu and Indoril regional interests. Also, if she is more within the Andothren-Thirr sphere of influence, it is likelier that the Camonna Tong would have an active role in or around Indal-ruhn).
Moving on to the locals, their professions would somewhat depend on which of the above identities we go with for Indal-ruhn. (Assuming, of course, that we go with any of them). Most of them would probably be dockworkers, some might be sailors and some might either be retainers of Savyani Romalen or Hlaalu agents.
I do not think any changes need to be made to their interiors, personally. The locals would still be badly off, their dialogue would just need to be changed to establish that, while poor, they are by no means destitute. They might still supplement their diets with fishing, and maybe even supplement their incomes with farm labour.
Retainers might oversee trade, if Savyani Romalen is (at least nominally) in charge of it; would probably oversee labour and would serve Savyani Romalen in various other ways.
Agents, if there are any, would keep an eye on trade, and maybe Savyani Romalen. They might also communicate with local smugglers/the Camonna Tong.
Other than dialogue, I think the NPCs could be given slightly better clothing to reflect their marginally better jobs, but just the fancier end of common clothing. Rather than penniless fishermen, they are labourers and low-pay agents.
I think the General Trader can stay as-is. Most of the goods that flow through Indal-ruhn would just pass through; tolls might be collected (at a competitive price compared to Almas Thirr for non-Hlaalu; House members probably do not need to pay any toll), but otherwise most of the work would involve transferring cargo from ships to land or vice versa. I do not think a tradehouse would make much sense.
I don't think Indal-ruhn needs any other services, either. (Perhaps a shipmaster, but transportation is another issue that ought to be discussed elsewhere).
'Torvor Dros' does appear to be a lumberjack, though, and perhaps his role could be expanded to ship outfitter and ship repair. That doesn't necessarily mean he would provide barter services, though.[/spoiler]
*Edit: I hope I got the numbers right:
[spoiler]i4-228-i4-237 correspond to buildings 1-10 in this [url=http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/files/maps/IndalRuhn.jpg]map[/url]. Or, going with the current interior names:
i4-228 "Indal'ruhn, Enar Dray's Shack"
i4-229 "Indal'ruhn, Akov's Shack"
i4-230 "Indal'ruhn, Doval Ralm's House"
i4-231 "Indal'ruhn, Dovesea Llarno"
i4-232 "Indal'ruhn, Roris Hlallan: General Trader"
i4-233 "Indal'ruhn, Romalen Manor"
i4-234 "Indal'ruhn, Torvor Dros's Shack"
i4-235 "Indal'ruhn, Alnas Driln's Shack"
i4-236 "Indal'ruhn, Pjerulf's Shack"
i4-237 "Indal'ruhn, Felayn Urelen's Shack"
Also, I noticed that the positions of i4-230 and i4-232 should be switched for them to make any sense in my above image.[/spoiler]
In a broader context, it is a choke-point between House Hlaalu's northern and southern holdings, (along with Ald Erfoud to the west), and is also the nearest Hlaalu settlement to Andothren. Which is to say, it is at the edge of a very broad stretch of virtual non-settlement. (Plantations hardly support a large population. Unless you count the slaves, which in this context one shouldn't).
It may be small, and I think it should stay small, but I think its small size belies its pivotal importance to Hlaalu trade. I think Indal-ruhn is very much worth our attention.
Here's a rather messy proposal, to indicate the kind of changes I had in mind:
[url=http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/Gnomenator/Indal-ruhnProposal.jpg~original][img]http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g103/Gnomenator/th_Indal-ruhnProposal.jpg[/img][/url]
1. replace the apostrophe in 'Indal'ruhn' with a hyphen.
2. move the buildings around for a tighter and more organic layout.* Currently a lot of buildings are at near-right angles to each other, which, along with the distance between buildings, makes Indal-ruhn look rather dull, in my opinion.
3. add a slave shack, or otherwise provide accommodation for slaves.
4. add some ships and cargo to the dockside.
5. maybe add some sort of terrace ('porch' isn't really the right word, on second thought) north of the manor facing the fields; basically do something with the random bit of paved ground there.
6. remove or improve the currently random-looking stub of road south of Indal-ruhn. I advocate the former. (The blurry red text reads "disjointed bit of road; remove or improve", in case you can't read it).
7. fill out the road west of Indal-ruhn.
Two of the things marked on the map are really part of other discussions:
[spoiler]First, 'change to mainroad'. Currently, Andothren-Thirr is completely lacking mainroads other than the little stub going west from Almas Thirr. I think it needs some, but will elaborate elsewhere.
Second of all, the blurry red note to the left reads "we still need to decide what to do with this...", referring to the stalled [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24311]buffer zone[/url] discussion.[/spoiler]
Neither of them are really important for this discussion, and the second is only marginally important for NPCing.
Finally, just because I haven't written a long post in a while, here are a few ideas on the identity of Indal-ruhn:
[spoiler]I read through the dialogue currently in place. Hopefully I didn't miss anything. I think it works as-is for the most part, requiring adjustments more than replacements.
My concept for Indal-ruhn:
Indal-ruhn is either a Hlaalu cargo port that sprang up around a plantation (unlikely); a settlement belonging to 'Savyani Romalen' (the local noble) through which Hlaalu goods are transported; or a Hlaalu cargo port controlled by Savyani Romalen.
The distinction between the three is as follows:
1. in the first case, Savyani Romalen only owns her manor, any local slaves and the field to the north. The village would either be pseudo-autonomous or controlled by an agent of the Hlaalu Council Company; likely either 'Doval Ralm' (rumoured to be a Hlaalu agent; currently a Hlaalu nightblade) or somebody living far away.
2. in the second case, Savyani Romalen owns the whole settlement, but has limited oversight of the goods passing through the settlement, which would instead probably be controlled by an agent of the Hlaalu Council Company, possibly Doval Ralm.
3. in the third case, Savyani Romalen was probably granted the settlement by the Hlaalu Council Company for the express purpose of directing local trade. She controls everything.
Note that all of those options refer to the nominal role of Savyani Romalen, not her de facto role. In the third case, for example, Savyani Romalen could still be incompetent at or indifferent to her duties, in which case the local trade would either remain uncontrolled or someone else, maybe 'Garvs Anrayn' (her steward) or Doval Ralm, would fill in for her. In other words, the third proposal would functionally be the same as the second proposal.
I think that the current Savyani Romalen works as a character, personally; her function just needs to be clarified.
Would Savyani Romalen be at all connected to Andothren-Thirr politics, or -- as is currently the case -- would she be more tied to Narsis/Othreleth? (Again, ignoring her personal level of involvement in politics, though that's something else that could use discussion). This question is very important in determining what role, if any, she might play in various quests and questlines.
(I mention this mainly because Indal-ruhn is so close to Almas Thirr. If her role is of any importance, she would be more likely to become involved with the Hlaalu and Indoril regional interests. Also, if she is more within the Andothren-Thirr sphere of influence, it is likelier that the Camonna Tong would have an active role in or around Indal-ruhn).
Moving on to the locals, their professions would somewhat depend on which of the above identities we go with for Indal-ruhn. (Assuming, of course, that we go with any of them). Most of them would probably be dockworkers, some might be sailors and some might either be retainers of Savyani Romalen or Hlaalu agents.
I do not think any changes need to be made to their interiors, personally. The locals would still be badly off, their dialogue would just need to be changed to establish that, while poor, they are by no means destitute. They might still supplement their diets with fishing, and maybe even supplement their incomes with farm labour.
Retainers might oversee trade, if Savyani Romalen is (at least nominally) in charge of it; would probably oversee labour and would serve Savyani Romalen in various other ways.
Agents, if there are any, would keep an eye on trade, and maybe Savyani Romalen. They might also communicate with local smugglers/the Camonna Tong.
Other than dialogue, I think the NPCs could be given slightly better clothing to reflect their marginally better jobs, but just the fancier end of common clothing. Rather than penniless fishermen, they are labourers and low-pay agents.
I think the General Trader can stay as-is. Most of the goods that flow through Indal-ruhn would just pass through; tolls might be collected (at a competitive price compared to Almas Thirr for non-Hlaalu; House members probably do not need to pay any toll), but otherwise most of the work would involve transferring cargo from ships to land or vice versa. I do not think a tradehouse would make much sense.
I don't think Indal-ruhn needs any other services, either. (Perhaps a shipmaster, but transportation is another issue that ought to be discussed elsewhere).
'Torvor Dros' does appear to be a lumberjack, though, and perhaps his role could be expanded to ship outfitter and ship repair. That doesn't necessarily mean he would provide barter services, though.[/spoiler]
*Edit: I hope I got the numbers right:
[spoiler]i4-228-i4-237 correspond to buildings 1-10 in this [url=http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/files/maps/IndalRuhn.jpg]map[/url]. Or, going with the current interior names:
i4-228 "Indal'ruhn, Enar Dray's Shack"
i4-229 "Indal'ruhn, Akov's Shack"
i4-230 "Indal'ruhn, Doval Ralm's House"
i4-231 "Indal'ruhn, Dovesea Llarno"
i4-232 "Indal'ruhn, Roris Hlallan: General Trader"
i4-233 "Indal'ruhn, Romalen Manor"
i4-234 "Indal'ruhn, Torvor Dros's Shack"
i4-235 "Indal'ruhn, Alnas Driln's Shack"
i4-236 "Indal'ruhn, Pjerulf's Shack"
i4-237 "Indal'ruhn, Felayn Urelen's Shack"
Also, I noticed that the positions of i4-230 and i4-232 should be switched for them to make any sense in my above image.[/spoiler]
Yet another logged conversation between Swiftoak and me, fleshing out Indal-ruhn's logistical role in local shipping and the like:
[spoiler]<Swiftoak> i was just chewing your ideas on indal
<Swiftoak> and for the most part i like them
<Swiftoak> mostly the shipping aspect
<Swiftoak> shipping/shipbuilding enterprise
<Swiftoak> it could work
<Gnomey> Yeah, thanks for opening up that thread.
<Swiftoak> for those in north othrelth,kragenmoor,armun
<Swiftoak> indal could be a competitve option
<Swiftoak> rather than sending goods down to othreleth and back up
<Swiftoak> shipping goods shortly overland and to indal is a quicker (and cheaper) optinion
<Swiftoak> to access the thirr
<Swiftoak> noticing the geography
<Gnomey> Yeah.
<Swiftoak> and it fits the whole infrastructure theme
<Swiftoak> i think though if this should work we should make a minor exterior change
<Swiftoak> opening it up to the thirr
<Gnomey> Largely due to how TR inexplicably didn't place any Hlaalu settlements along msot of the Thirr.
<Swiftoak> rather than the awkward little stream that flows south and then east
<Gnomey> I think the awkward little stream sort of work, though.
<Gnomey> It's basically the furthest north you can get while avoiding the shadow of Almas Thirr.
<Swiftoak> mmm could be
<Swiftoak> yeah a lucrative seedy little port
<Swiftoak> run by romalen who is basically running an extortion racket
<Gnomey> Getting rid of that bridge south of Indal-ruhn will also significantly open it up.
<Swiftoak> right
<Swiftoak> shipping overland is riskier
<Gnomey> Yeah, but that's where Hlaalu-Comonna Tong cooperation might play a role.
<Swiftoak> also river runners perhaps
<Swiftoak> indal is sosrta a point where smugglers pay corrupt hlaalu officials to get their goods past almas thirr
<Swiftoak> since the overland route is too populated
<Swiftoak> north of indal
<Swiftoak> (notice i deliberately put most of the new cave ints on waterways)
<Gnomey> Yeah. The goods can probably be transfered back to water right north of Almas Thirr, though.
<Swiftoak> yeah
<Swiftoak> there's a huge source of income from that dwemer ruin
<Gnomey> But as the overland route is Hlaalu controlled, even smugglers shouldn't have too much trouble as long as they're friendly with House Hlaalu/the Camonna Tong.
<Swiftoak> smuggling dwemer artifacts
<Swiftoak> yeah
<Swiftoak> but some goods need to be transpoprted over water (easier/faster/etc)
<Swiftoak> so it doesn't undermine the need to use the thirr
<Swiftoak> also the waterways can get stuff farther
<Swiftoak> whereas overland you're penned up into the valley
<Swiftoak> until you reach andothren
<Gnomey> Yeah, certainly for larger shipments Indal-ruhn would be too inconvenient.
<Gnomey> Unloading a ship full of goods, trecking it over land, maybe loading it up again in a new ship...
<Swiftoak> i think we can have big loads at indal
<Swiftoak> big-ish i mean
<Gnomey> Yeah, longboats still work.
<Swiftoak> there's no way to get stuff west unless you want to trek the dangerous roth roryn and armun ashlands
<Gnomey> Do you mean to Kragenmar?
<Swiftoak> kragenmar, seyda neen, w/e
<Gnomey> Because there's not much west of Indal-ruhn.
<Swiftoak> im talking west morrowind in general
<Gnomey> Yeah, but there's a big divide there, due to the ashlands and how most Redoran lands are barely inhabited.
<Swiftoak> yeah
<Swiftoak> so to sum it up
<Gnomey> You pretty much have the inner sea, and then Othreleth and Shipal-shin, with a lot of space inbetween.
<Swiftoak> right
<Swiftoak> we dont want to undermine the importance of almas thirr
<Gnomey> *the coast of the Inner Sea, specifically.
<Gnomey> The thing is, overland routes generally are very long in western Morrowind.
<Swiftoak> mm
<Gnomey> Sea routes are always faster, as far as getting to important places.
* titsos (chatzilla@ChatSpikeh6a.6bb.177.91.IP) has joined #tamriel
<Gnomey> So anytime you go onto land, you'll generally end up wanting to switch back to a ship as quickly as possible.
<Swiftoak> right
<Swiftoak> so smugglers would use indal rhun
<Swiftoak> dump their shit
<Swiftoak> bribe officials
<Swiftoak> to get their goods overland upto oran or something
<Swiftoak> then back up the river
<Swiftoak> local farmers will opt to using indal as a cheaper way to get goods to the thirr
<Swiftoak> versus ferrying them down the othreleth which flows south and north
<Swiftoak> so it has two sides
<Gnomey> A lot of larger ships might unload some of their cargo at Indal-ruhn,
<Swiftoak> basically the one the player sees is a mask
<Gnomey> and then send the ship through Almas Thirr,
<Swiftoak> exactly right
<Gnomey> so that they don't have to switch to another ship on the other side.
<Swiftoak> and hey it works with the whole hlaalu society being this one giant facade
<Gnomey> And undermining House Indoril while they're at it.
<Swiftoak> yeah
<Swiftoak> i imagine oran and rothalen have some sort of deal
<Swiftoak> because oran's port can be used to reload these goods
<Swiftoak> or perhaps smugglers will opt to caching their goods in the multiple smuggler's hideouts along the thirr
<Gnomey> Yeah, seems like a good idea.[/spoiler]
A summary:
While Indal-ruhn is tucked away in a corner of the Thirr River, this keeps it out of the shadow of Almas Thirr while being as far north as possible
Indal-ruhn's position gives it a lot of potential for seediness:
[spoiler]-smugglers would probably tend to go through Indal-ruhn rather than Almas Thirr, assuming they have good relations with House Hlaalu/the Camonna Tong, which is sort of a must.
-typically, they would only haul their goods a short distance overland before returning to water-based routes. The Oran plantation could be the typical terminus of the short land route.
-In that case, Oran and Romalen might be close business associates, though that does not necessarily follow.
-ship captains (especially shady ones) might send some of their cargo through Indal-ruhn to lighten their load and consequently lower the toll required to go through Almas Thirr, reloading the cargo on the other side.
-Dwemer goods from the nearby Dwemer ruin would likely be smuggled through Indal-ruhn.[/spoiler]
Almas Thirr is still often the more convenient alternative, because:
[spoiler]-keeping to the waterways is faster than having to transfer goods from water to land and then back to water, especially considering the relatively small size of Indal-ruhn's dock.
-while goods can be transported overland, the ship carrying the goods can't.
-it is tedious to transport a large amount of cargo overland.
-Indal-ruhn's dock cannot accommodate any ship larger than a longboat anyway.[/spoiler]
Overland trade is also an option, with certain caveats:
[spoiler]-TRV is densely populated, so transporting stuff overland without being seen presents a challenge.
-the locals will generally turn a blind eye to smugglers, though, especially if they are suspected to be tied to the Camonna Tong or House Hlaalu in some way, which they probably would be.
-people transporting goods overland are prone to being waylaid. However, House Hlaalu and the Camonna Tong may keep such highway robbery within bounds so as not to discourage traffic, or at least keep it hush-hush.
-just an idea, but House Hlaalu could also fund the occasional river-pirates to target ships that pass through Almas Thirr, to dissuade merchants from using that route.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]<Swiftoak> i was just chewing your ideas on indal
<Swiftoak> and for the most part i like them
<Swiftoak> mostly the shipping aspect
<Swiftoak> shipping/shipbuilding enterprise
<Swiftoak> it could work
<Gnomey> Yeah, thanks for opening up that thread.
<Swiftoak> for those in north othrelth,kragenmoor,armun
<Swiftoak> indal could be a competitve option
<Swiftoak> rather than sending goods down to othreleth and back up
<Swiftoak> shipping goods shortly overland and to indal is a quicker (and cheaper) optinion
<Swiftoak> to access the thirr
<Swiftoak> noticing the geography
<Gnomey> Yeah.
<Swiftoak> and it fits the whole infrastructure theme
<Swiftoak> i think though if this should work we should make a minor exterior change
<Swiftoak> opening it up to the thirr
<Gnomey> Largely due to how TR inexplicably didn't place any Hlaalu settlements along msot of the Thirr.
<Swiftoak> rather than the awkward little stream that flows south and then east
<Gnomey> I think the awkward little stream sort of work, though.
<Gnomey> It's basically the furthest north you can get while avoiding the shadow of Almas Thirr.
<Swiftoak> mmm could be
<Swiftoak> yeah a lucrative seedy little port
<Swiftoak> run by romalen who is basically running an extortion racket
<Gnomey> Getting rid of that bridge south of Indal-ruhn will also significantly open it up.
<Swiftoak> right
<Swiftoak> shipping overland is riskier
<Gnomey> Yeah, but that's where Hlaalu-Comonna Tong cooperation might play a role.
<Swiftoak> also river runners perhaps
<Swiftoak> indal is sosrta a point where smugglers pay corrupt hlaalu officials to get their goods past almas thirr
<Swiftoak> since the overland route is too populated
<Swiftoak> north of indal
<Swiftoak> (notice i deliberately put most of the new cave ints on waterways)
<Gnomey> Yeah. The goods can probably be transfered back to water right north of Almas Thirr, though.
<Swiftoak> yeah
<Swiftoak> there's a huge source of income from that dwemer ruin
<Gnomey> But as the overland route is Hlaalu controlled, even smugglers shouldn't have too much trouble as long as they're friendly with House Hlaalu/the Camonna Tong.
<Swiftoak> smuggling dwemer artifacts
<Swiftoak> yeah
<Swiftoak> but some goods need to be transpoprted over water (easier/faster/etc)
<Swiftoak> so it doesn't undermine the need to use the thirr
<Swiftoak> also the waterways can get stuff farther
<Swiftoak> whereas overland you're penned up into the valley
<Swiftoak> until you reach andothren
<Gnomey> Yeah, certainly for larger shipments Indal-ruhn would be too inconvenient.
<Gnomey> Unloading a ship full of goods, trecking it over land, maybe loading it up again in a new ship...
<Swiftoak> i think we can have big loads at indal
<Swiftoak> big-ish i mean
<Gnomey> Yeah, longboats still work.
<Swiftoak> there's no way to get stuff west unless you want to trek the dangerous roth roryn and armun ashlands
<Gnomey> Do you mean to Kragenmar?
<Swiftoak> kragenmar, seyda neen, w/e
<Gnomey> Because there's not much west of Indal-ruhn.
<Swiftoak> im talking west morrowind in general
<Gnomey> Yeah, but there's a big divide there, due to the ashlands and how most Redoran lands are barely inhabited.
<Swiftoak> yeah
<Swiftoak> so to sum it up
<Gnomey> You pretty much have the inner sea, and then Othreleth and Shipal-shin, with a lot of space inbetween.
<Swiftoak> right
<Swiftoak> we dont want to undermine the importance of almas thirr
<Gnomey> *the coast of the Inner Sea, specifically.
<Gnomey> The thing is, overland routes generally are very long in western Morrowind.
<Swiftoak> mm
<Gnomey> Sea routes are always faster, as far as getting to important places.
* titsos (chatzilla@ChatSpikeh6a.6bb.177.91.IP) has joined #tamriel
<Gnomey> So anytime you go onto land, you'll generally end up wanting to switch back to a ship as quickly as possible.
<Swiftoak> right
<Swiftoak> so smugglers would use indal rhun
<Swiftoak> dump their shit
<Swiftoak> bribe officials
<Swiftoak> to get their goods overland upto oran or something
<Swiftoak> then back up the river
<Swiftoak> local farmers will opt to using indal as a cheaper way to get goods to the thirr
<Swiftoak> versus ferrying them down the othreleth which flows south and north
<Swiftoak> so it has two sides
<Gnomey> A lot of larger ships might unload some of their cargo at Indal-ruhn,
<Swiftoak> basically the one the player sees is a mask
<Gnomey> and then send the ship through Almas Thirr,
<Swiftoak> exactly right
<Gnomey> so that they don't have to switch to another ship on the other side.
<Swiftoak> and hey it works with the whole hlaalu society being this one giant facade
<Gnomey> And undermining House Indoril while they're at it.
<Swiftoak> yeah
<Swiftoak> i imagine oran and rothalen have some sort of deal
<Swiftoak> because oran's port can be used to reload these goods
<Swiftoak> or perhaps smugglers will opt to caching their goods in the multiple smuggler's hideouts along the thirr
<Gnomey> Yeah, seems like a good idea.[/spoiler]
A summary:
While Indal-ruhn is tucked away in a corner of the Thirr River, this keeps it out of the shadow of Almas Thirr while being as far north as possible
Indal-ruhn's position gives it a lot of potential for seediness:
[spoiler]-smugglers would probably tend to go through Indal-ruhn rather than Almas Thirr, assuming they have good relations with House Hlaalu/the Camonna Tong, which is sort of a must.
-typically, they would only haul their goods a short distance overland before returning to water-based routes. The Oran plantation could be the typical terminus of the short land route.
-In that case, Oran and Romalen might be close business associates, though that does not necessarily follow.
-ship captains (especially shady ones) might send some of their cargo through Indal-ruhn to lighten their load and consequently lower the toll required to go through Almas Thirr, reloading the cargo on the other side.
-Dwemer goods from the nearby Dwemer ruin would likely be smuggled through Indal-ruhn.[/spoiler]
Almas Thirr is still often the more convenient alternative, because:
[spoiler]-keeping to the waterways is faster than having to transfer goods from water to land and then back to water, especially considering the relatively small size of Indal-ruhn's dock.
-while goods can be transported overland, the ship carrying the goods can't.
-it is tedious to transport a large amount of cargo overland.
-Indal-ruhn's dock cannot accommodate any ship larger than a longboat anyway.[/spoiler]
Overland trade is also an option, with certain caveats:
[spoiler]-TRV is densely populated, so transporting stuff overland without being seen presents a challenge.
-the locals will generally turn a blind eye to smugglers, though, especially if they are suspected to be tied to the Camonna Tong or House Hlaalu in some way, which they probably would be.
-people transporting goods overland are prone to being waylaid. However, House Hlaalu and the Camonna Tong may keep such highway robbery within bounds so as not to discourage traffic, or at least keep it hush-hush.
-just an idea, but House Hlaalu could also fund the occasional river-pirates to target ships that pass through Almas Thirr, to dissuade merchants from using that route.[/spoiler]
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Yeti
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All this stuff looks great, Gnomey. I don't have much time to comment at length at the moment, but I think you and Swiftoak have succeeded at giving this colorless settlement a meaningful identity. And you did it in such a short time too! I look forward to seeing how it comes out in the CS.
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Yeti
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I think we should remove the Comberry field north of Indal-ruhn. It's too big and shifts too much attention away from Indal-ruhn's identity as a small cargo port and fishing village. We also shouldn't connect fields to Hlaalu settlements, like with we do with the Indoril. Hlaalu have plantations and small farms, not farming villages.
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Yeti
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New Dialogue to Review:
[spoiler]Greetings
This is the riverport of Indal-ruhn, outlander. Looking for someone in particular?
Not many travelers stop to chat while in Indal-ruhn. What do you want?
What brings you to Indal-ruhn, outlander? You won’t be able to cross the Thirr River from here.
Indal-ruhn
The dock at Indal-ruhn serves as a dropping off point for cargo on the Thirr River. Most villagers make their living as fishermen, boatmen or laborers on nearby plantations. A few Hlaalu retainers and agents live here as well.
Latest Rumor
Llananu Raran might take an extended leave from Indal-ruhn soon to visit her family in Narsis. Not many here would miss her, frankly.
The guards at the Oran Plantation are looking for a runaway slave. They say the lizard bashed one of them on the head and ran off. We’ll make sure to be on the lookout for the scaly fetcher. Maybe Atran Oran will post a reward for his capture.
I hear Pjerulf has been getting friendly with the Oran Plantation’s slaves. He works in the fields with them, which by itself is perfectly fine. Many Dunmer from the village earn extra coin picking crops when the plantations need extra hands. But we know better than to socialize with catmen and lizards.
Little Advice
Garvs Anrayn keeps Raran Manor under a tight watch. You’ll need to be on your best behavior if you have business with Llananu Raran.
Keep to the roads and you probably won’t meet too much trouble around these parts. The Thirr River Valley is pretty tame, though we do see our fair share of bandit attacks.
If you see a shady character up to no good, turn a blind eye. Don’t risk upsetting the wrong sort of people.
Little Secret
Alnas Driln is something of a local hero in Indal-ruhn. He saved a little girl from getting dragged off by mudcrabs years ago. We’ve call him the “Crab Slayer†ever since.
More than a few Dwemer coins have found their way into the hands of local villagers lately. Maybe a band of opportunists finally cleared out the old Bthungtch ruins to the south. If so, they wouldn’t be the first to smuggler contraband through Indal-ruhn.
I can’t call it a secret, but most merchants who disembark their wares at Indal-ruhn do it to bypass the tolls at Almas Thirr. They haul their goods overland until they can pack them back onto ships north of the Temple stronghold.
Indal-ruhn – Scout Topic
Indal-ruhn is located in the lush tributary banks of the Thirr River Valley. Hlaalu Councilman Atran Oran's sprawling plantation lies to the north and the Temple stronghold of Almas Thirr bridges the Thirr River to the east. Across the western mountains lie the inhospitable Armun Ashlands.
Services
Roris Hlor runs the only tradehouse in Indal-ruhn. Luckily for you, Almas Thirr is only a short trek from here. You’ll find plenty of shops and shrines there.
Someone in particular
Llananu Raran of Raran Manor is Indal-ruhn’s resident noblewoman. We stay out of her affaires as much as possible. Doval Rarayn is the local agent representing the Hlaalu Council Company. He keeps track of what gets shipped in and out of the village. Rolis Hlor is the village trader. Talk to him if you need supplies for the road.
Specific Place
Raran Manor, Doval Rarayn’s house and the Rolis Hlor’s tradehouse are the three adobe buildings. Besides them, there isn’t much to see in Indal-ruhn except shacks owned by impoverished fishermen.
Llananu Raran
Greeting
Whatever business you might think you have with me, make it quick.
Background
If you must know, I am Llananu Raran, %Class and %Rank of House Hlaalu. Perhaps you’ve heard of my family? My relatives operate a successful import business in Narsis. Truthfully, I would much rather reside with them, if I didn’t have desirable connections to maintain in the vicinity of Indal-ruhn.
Indal-ruhn
Indal-ruhn is a dismal collection of ramshackle shacks, home to the grimiest fishermen imaginable. I don’t particularly care for it.
Garvs Anrayn
Greeting
What are you doing in here? Looking to cause trouble for Llananu Raran?
Background
I work for Llananu Raran. If someone causes her trouble, I make them regret it. If she orders a fool thrown out of her manor, I throw them out. Understand, outlander?
Indal-ruhn
If the people here don’t like me, too bad. Not my problem.
Rolis Hlor
Greeting
Welcome to Indal-ruhn’s tradehouse, outlander. I’m %Name, the proprietor. Looking for anything in particular? My fine selection of wares should cover your needs.
Alnas Driln –Will have a Misc Quest tied to him
Greeting
You know about crabs? I hate them. Little bastards. I take my tanto to any I see. That’s why I’m called the “Crab Slayer.†I kill crabs.
Background
I may not look it, but I was quite the fisherman back in my day. Well, not so much a fisherman. I mainly hunted crabs. But you get what I mean, right Serjo? I became something of a local hero after I saved a little girl from a ravenous pack of mudcrabs several years back.
Indal-ruhn
Not so bad a place, really. Plenty of decent mer to share a jug of mazte with and chat away the evenings.
Fafni –Will have a Misc Quest tied to her
Greeting
Are you here to see my husband, stranger? Unfortunately, Pferulf is away working in the comberry fields right now. Perhaps you could help me by taking these Sujamma jugs to him?
Background
My husband Pjerulf works as a farmhand on the Oran Plantation to the north. A big Nord like him can do twice as much work as their miserable slaves.
Indal-ruhn
Nice enough place. The locals are friendly enough, for Dunmer at least. You won’t find tough Nords like me and Pjerulf complaining about the hard living.
Doval Rarayn
Greeting
What do you want? I don’t have time to talk to you, unless you have shipping logs to fill out.
Background
My name is %Name, %Class and %Rank of House Hlaalu. I represent the Hlaalu Council Company’s interests in Indal-ruhn and oversee the freight transported in and out of the village.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Greetings
This is the riverport of Indal-ruhn, outlander. Looking for someone in particular?
Not many travelers stop to chat while in Indal-ruhn. What do you want?
What brings you to Indal-ruhn, outlander? You won’t be able to cross the Thirr River from here.
Indal-ruhn
The dock at Indal-ruhn serves as a dropping off point for cargo on the Thirr River. Most villagers make their living as fishermen, boatmen or laborers on nearby plantations. A few Hlaalu retainers and agents live here as well.
Latest Rumor
Llananu Raran might take an extended leave from Indal-ruhn soon to visit her family in Narsis. Not many here would miss her, frankly.
The guards at the Oran Plantation are looking for a runaway slave. They say the lizard bashed one of them on the head and ran off. We’ll make sure to be on the lookout for the scaly fetcher. Maybe Atran Oran will post a reward for his capture.
I hear Pjerulf has been getting friendly with the Oran Plantation’s slaves. He works in the fields with them, which by itself is perfectly fine. Many Dunmer from the village earn extra coin picking crops when the plantations need extra hands. But we know better than to socialize with catmen and lizards.
Little Advice
Garvs Anrayn keeps Raran Manor under a tight watch. You’ll need to be on your best behavior if you have business with Llananu Raran.
Keep to the roads and you probably won’t meet too much trouble around these parts. The Thirr River Valley is pretty tame, though we do see our fair share of bandit attacks.
If you see a shady character up to no good, turn a blind eye. Don’t risk upsetting the wrong sort of people.
Little Secret
Alnas Driln is something of a local hero in Indal-ruhn. He saved a little girl from getting dragged off by mudcrabs years ago. We’ve call him the “Crab Slayer†ever since.
More than a few Dwemer coins have found their way into the hands of local villagers lately. Maybe a band of opportunists finally cleared out the old Bthungtch ruins to the south. If so, they wouldn’t be the first to smuggler contraband through Indal-ruhn.
I can’t call it a secret, but most merchants who disembark their wares at Indal-ruhn do it to bypass the tolls at Almas Thirr. They haul their goods overland until they can pack them back onto ships north of the Temple stronghold.
Indal-ruhn – Scout Topic
Indal-ruhn is located in the lush tributary banks of the Thirr River Valley. Hlaalu Councilman Atran Oran's sprawling plantation lies to the north and the Temple stronghold of Almas Thirr bridges the Thirr River to the east. Across the western mountains lie the inhospitable Armun Ashlands.
Services
Roris Hlor runs the only tradehouse in Indal-ruhn. Luckily for you, Almas Thirr is only a short trek from here. You’ll find plenty of shops and shrines there.
Someone in particular
Llananu Raran of Raran Manor is Indal-ruhn’s resident noblewoman. We stay out of her affaires as much as possible. Doval Rarayn is the local agent representing the Hlaalu Council Company. He keeps track of what gets shipped in and out of the village. Rolis Hlor is the village trader. Talk to him if you need supplies for the road.
Specific Place
Raran Manor, Doval Rarayn’s house and the Rolis Hlor’s tradehouse are the three adobe buildings. Besides them, there isn’t much to see in Indal-ruhn except shacks owned by impoverished fishermen.
Llananu Raran
Greeting
Whatever business you might think you have with me, make it quick.
Background
If you must know, I am Llananu Raran, %Class and %Rank of House Hlaalu. Perhaps you’ve heard of my family? My relatives operate a successful import business in Narsis. Truthfully, I would much rather reside with them, if I didn’t have desirable connections to maintain in the vicinity of Indal-ruhn.
Indal-ruhn
Indal-ruhn is a dismal collection of ramshackle shacks, home to the grimiest fishermen imaginable. I don’t particularly care for it.
Garvs Anrayn
Greeting
What are you doing in here? Looking to cause trouble for Llananu Raran?
Background
I work for Llananu Raran. If someone causes her trouble, I make them regret it. If she orders a fool thrown out of her manor, I throw them out. Understand, outlander?
Indal-ruhn
If the people here don’t like me, too bad. Not my problem.
Rolis Hlor
Greeting
Welcome to Indal-ruhn’s tradehouse, outlander. I’m %Name, the proprietor. Looking for anything in particular? My fine selection of wares should cover your needs.
Alnas Driln –Will have a Misc Quest tied to him
Greeting
You know about crabs? I hate them. Little bastards. I take my tanto to any I see. That’s why I’m called the “Crab Slayer.†I kill crabs.
Background
I may not look it, but I was quite the fisherman back in my day. Well, not so much a fisherman. I mainly hunted crabs. But you get what I mean, right Serjo? I became something of a local hero after I saved a little girl from a ravenous pack of mudcrabs several years back.
Indal-ruhn
Not so bad a place, really. Plenty of decent mer to share a jug of mazte with and chat away the evenings.
Fafni –Will have a Misc Quest tied to her
Greeting
Are you here to see my husband, stranger? Unfortunately, Pferulf is away working in the comberry fields right now. Perhaps you could help me by taking these Sujamma jugs to him?
Background
My husband Pjerulf works as a farmhand on the Oran Plantation to the north. A big Nord like him can do twice as much work as their miserable slaves.
Indal-ruhn
Nice enough place. The locals are friendly enough, for Dunmer at least. You won’t find tough Nords like me and Pjerulf complaining about the hard living.
Doval Rarayn
Greeting
What do you want? I don’t have time to talk to you, unless you have shipping logs to fill out.
Background
My name is %Name, %Class and %Rank of House Hlaalu. I represent the Hlaalu Council Company’s interests in Indal-ruhn and oversee the freight transported in and out of the village.[/spoiler]
Last edited by Yeti on Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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arvisrend
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- Location: substitutional world
Very nice!
Too formal at points; are there any bureaucrats in IR? If so, this could be conditioned to them. Normal people should have something more mundane to say ("We fish, we sow, we reap. This can't be the place you are looking for, outlander?"). Maybe hint (conditioned on player not in Hlaalu) that the player shouldn't stick his nose in too far?Yeti wrote:Indal-ruhn
The dock at Indal-ruhn serves as a dropping off point for cargo on the Thirr River. Most villagers make their living as fishermen, boatmen or laborers on nearby plantations. A few Hlaalu retainers and agents live here as well.
Condition to NPC not being a Khajiit, and add "You are not a cat" to the front of this for extra detail. Good to remind players that some outlanders are more equal than others.Yeti wrote:Keep to the roads and you probably won’t meet too much trouble around these parts. The Thirr River Valley is pretty tame, though we do see our fair share of bandit attacks.
You mean "smuggle"? (What about "move", by the way?)Yeti wrote:More than a few Dwemer coins have found their way into the hands of local villagers lately. Maybe a band of opportunists finally cleared out the old Bthungtch ruins to the south. If so, they wouldn’t be the first to smuggler contraband through Indal-ruhn.
"affairs", not "affaires", unless you mean a rather specific kind of.Yeti wrote:Llananu Raran of Raran Manor is Indal-ruhn’s resident noblewoman. We stay out of her affaires as much as possible. Doval Rarayn is the local agent representing the Hlaalu Council Company. He keeps track of what gets shipped in and out of the village. Rolis Hlor is the village trader. Talk to him if you need supplies for the road.
"the shacks of poor fishermen" sounds more natural than "shacks owned by impoverished fishermen" to me.Yeti wrote:Raran Manor, Doval Rarayn’s house and the Rolis Hlor’s tradehouse are the three adobe buildings. Besides them, there isn’t much to see in Indal-ruhn except shacks owned by impoverished fishermen.
This doesn't sound like something he would tell the first stranger, unless we want to characterize him as particularly dismissive towards his own populace (even for a Hlaalu).Yeti wrote:Indal-ruhn is a dismal collection of ramshackle shacks, home to the grimiest fishermen imaginable. I don’t particularly care for it.
However seriously this is meant, the absence of children and the complete harmlessness of mudracbs in gameplay make this story very hard to immerse into, unless it is meant tongue-in-cheek. What is the quest that this guy is supposed to give?Yeti wrote: I may not look it, but I was quite the fisherman back in my day. Well, not so much a fisherman. I mainly hunted crabs. But you get what I mean, right Serjo? I became something of a local hero after I saved a little girl from a ravenous pack of mudcrabs several years back.
I think you called him differently before.Yeti wrote: Are you here to see my husband, stranger? Unfortunately, Pferulf is away working in the comberry fields right now. Perhaps you could help me by taking these Sujamma jugs to him?
Remove the "tough"; that should go without saying in the context.Yeti wrote: Nice enough place. The locals are friendly enough, for Dunmer at least. You won’t find tough Nords like me and Pjerulf complaining about the hard living.
Excellent work! My comments, some of them incredibly nit-picky:
Latest Rumors
"Llananu Raran might take an extended leave from Indal-ruhn soon to visit her family in Narsis. Not many here would miss her, frankly."
-would anyone other than her steward miss her? With such a small settlement, outright stating 'not that anyone would miss her' might sound more natural.
Little Secret
"More than a few Dwemer coins [...]"
-I forgot to mention: I placed a skiff behind Enar Dray's shack which contains a few Dwemer artifacts. The skiff was intended to belong to the bandits looting the Dwemer ruin. As such, either just Enar Dray or pretty much the whole village would probably be in on the smuggling, and the whole village would probably know or at least suspect where the goods are coming from, making this line sound a little odd.
"They haul their goods overland until they can pack them back onto ships north of the Temple stronghold."
-you could specify that the goods are generally loaded back onto ships at the Oran plantation, rather than being vague as to where they're loaded back up.
Some of the entries seem rather xenophobic for Hlaalu, though they still work. I would consider using a base disposition for some of them. Also, please add entries for the Oran Plantation and Almas Thirr.
I don't really think so. Most of them are probably involved in dock work in some way, and with such a small village everyone would be very familiar with what goes on. It is essentially their trade, so it's not too surprising that they're very well informed and use the trade-speak.arvisrend wrote:Too formal at points; are there any bureaucrats in IR? If so, this could be conditioned to them. Normal people should have something more mundane to say ("We fish, we sow, we reap. This can't be the place you are looking for, outlander?"). Maybe hint (conditioned on player not in Hlaalu) that the player shouldn't stick his nose in too far?
She is that dismissive, at least currently. (I personally like her that way).arvisrend wrote:This doesn't sound like something he would tell the first stranger, unless we want to characterize him as particularly dismissive towards his own populace (even for a Hlaalu).
Hey, I've had starting characters die to vicious mudcrabs back in the day! I'd have called him "Crab Slayer" too.arvisrend wrote:However seriously this is meant, the absence of children and the complete harmlessness of mudracbs in gameplay make this story very hard to immerse into, unless it is meant tongue-in-cheek. What is the quest that this guy is supposed to give?
Latest Rumors
"Llananu Raran might take an extended leave from Indal-ruhn soon to visit her family in Narsis. Not many here would miss her, frankly."
-would anyone other than her steward miss her? With such a small settlement, outright stating 'not that anyone would miss her' might sound more natural.
Little Secret
"More than a few Dwemer coins [...]"
-I forgot to mention: I placed a skiff behind Enar Dray's shack which contains a few Dwemer artifacts. The skiff was intended to belong to the bandits looting the Dwemer ruin. As such, either just Enar Dray or pretty much the whole village would probably be in on the smuggling, and the whole village would probably know or at least suspect where the goods are coming from, making this line sound a little odd.
"They haul their goods overland until they can pack them back onto ships north of the Temple stronghold."
-you could specify that the goods are generally loaded back onto ships at the Oran plantation, rather than being vague as to where they're loaded back up.
Some of the entries seem rather xenophobic for Hlaalu, though they still work. I would consider using a base disposition for some of them. Also, please add entries for the Oran Plantation and Almas Thirr.
This is minor but do we need a hyphen? I was kinda thinking we would just call it Indalruhn.
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[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind
[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined
[06/19/2012 04:15AM] +Cat table stabbing is apparently a really popular sport in morrowind
[August 29, 2014 04:05PM] <+Katze> I am writing an IRC bot! :O
[August 29, 2014 04:25PM] *** Katze has quit IRC: Z-Lined