i5-60-Red

Post by **Seneca37** » Sun Dec 08, 2013 9:22 pm

Claim type: Interior
Claim ID: TR_i5-60-Red (#2640)
Faction: Redoran
Parent claim: TR_5-13-Red (#180)
Claimed by: Parted User
Status: Not Available (Progress: 70%)
Local map: Rift Pass 1
Location: 1:(-3980, 475):0
Files: TR_i5-60-Red_Miraclestone_1.esp; TR_i5-60-Red_Miraclestone_2.esp; TR_i5-60-Red_Miraclestone_3.esp; TR_i5-60-Red_Miraclestone_4.esp; TR_i5-60-Red_Miraclestone_5.esp; TR_i5-60-Red_Miraclestone_6.esp; TR_i5-60-Red_Miraclestone_7.esp; TR_i5-60-Red_sasquatch2o_1.esp

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Rift Pass [-32, 4] #4 See local map. Lodging for travelers. Offers beds, food and drink. Imagine caravans to travel through here between Morrowind and Skyrim, from both sides.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:53 am

I'd like to claim this to ensure it's quality and to have something entirely new to try. Will have a basement large main floor to the back and left and slanted loft ceiling. 3 small rooms and 1 large shared room with bunks upstairs.

Mainfloor is bar and common area there is storage area in back to stow extra supplies for easy access and security that wont fit in rooms. This area is a rough, messy tavern more fitting for guar than man. Basement floor is a more private area for drinking and gambling. A backroom here is office and living space for owner.

I'm over my max, but I figure most of those are really on hold.

Post by **Seneca37** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:12 am

Not at this time, sasquatch2o. You do have too many claims as it is, as per your request. Please try to finish a few of them, and then I'll reconsider, if this claim is still available. And I'm 100% sure anyone who might claim this interior will do "quality" work.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:11 pm

This tileset is so limited but I finished a pretty cool layout for this. Would be really beneficial to have some ceiling or floor sections removed from select pieces for variety. Maybe I'll pick it up later.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 10:28 pm

Although I'm unable to officially claim this, I'm pretty psyched to upload the progress I've made. There is a lot of clipping and the back room needs to be moved back further, but I have managed to make a pretty cool stronghold tavern layout. I had to adjust the main room considerably from what I had envisioned because of the limited tileset, but with some inspiration from EJRS's int its coming along pretty nicely.

Tavern also provides storage services for migrant adventurers staying in the area. The tavern is a retrofitted stronghold barn. The most elite adventurers frequent the tavern. Upstair rooms are serviceable, but like the rest of the interior cater to a rough crowd who care little for finer creature comforts found elsewhere.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Mon Sep 01, 2014 9:53 pm

I fixed most walls in back. There are a handful of easy caspers to fix in tavern and raised storage area to resolve in storage. The back area is an old abandoned interior of the stronghold. It shows rough construction and been retrofitted into private storage, easier access to upper loft and secondary hay storage for guar. There are is a cart back here as well to handle the heavier loads. The interior is barn/ storage/ and tavern.

Another hour or two of work and this should be finished.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:08 pm

Layout nearly finalized. Need script for switch to raise portcullis.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:18 pm

I hope you realize that anyone else could come along and claim this for themselves. So for now, I would hold back on creating this interior if I were you. Also, it would be best to see you working on interiors that you have claimed.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 11:24 pm

I suppose they could but since its already 80% complete and they likely wouldn't be able to make one much better I don't see why they would. The ones I have claimed wont be reviewed for a long time yet and wouldn't be merged for even longer so I don't see why there is any rush, I'm not.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:11 am

How about you claim this now then, just to be safe.

sasquatch2o wrote:The ones I have claimed wont be reviewed for a long time yet and wouldn't be merged for even longer so I don't see why there is any rush, I'm not.

Actually, both of your claims are quite high-priority, and are likely to be reviewed shortly after their completion.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:42 am

I count 11 claimed including this unofficial int and one in review which is slated as high priority. There are 42 others already in review and a good number yet to be merged. So, I'd rather do something new than fix rotation or upload the others. I cant add this to my list because I'm over my max.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:00 am

First of all, forgive me for not seeing that huge list of interiors when I made my post. I had no idea that they were sent back to you.

sasquatch2o wrote:I count 11 claimed including this unofficial int and one in review which is slated as high priority.

However, this statement does match up with my first point a bit. I'm not so sure you should put this claim ahead of your other interiors. After all, the only reason seneca37 didn't give you the claim was so you could work on the others. But anyways, with 11 claims to deal with, why not get those interiors out of the way and then have an open space for new claims?

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:23 pm

If you want to work on this so bad, Sasquatch, why not drop one of your other claims?

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:59 pm

Who else will complete them? Just grant me this claim so i can properly upload file. Lift quota.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:41 am

We have a quota on how many interiors one modder can work on at a time for a reason -mainly to make sure modders finish their prior work before taking on additional claims.

Since Seneca37 and I recently noticed that a number of your interiors were fixed before you returned to TR, and are now in review again, I will grant this to you on the condition that you agree to not request additional claims until you have whittled your current workload down to at least two or three interiors.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 6:35 am

Mainfloor is bar and common area there is storage area in back to stow extra supplies for easy access and security.

Front area is a rough, messy tavern befitting guar more than man. The there is a hayloft and two modest rooms for travelers. The interior previously served as a barn and has been retrofitted into a dual purpose space. It now primarily functions as tavern but hay is still stored here. The messy state of the tavern is somewhat of a local joke, but something the owners and those who frequent the place have come to appreciate.

Backroom is split level. The bottom has secure storage and storage lockers for rent by the week for the hardened adventurers who frequent this joint. Upper is a basic door with ramp and some storage for guar cart and grains.

This should be considered a dangerous yet welcoming tavern. Those who frequent the tavern are battle hardened warriors and road weary travelers. Civilized company will not be found in these characters here, but capable adventurers and those who can hold their liquor may find friends and many wild stories here.

Unrelated to this thread, but thanks to those who fixed up the errors in files now sent back to review and Yeti for resolving the issue! (Rats, Seneca37, and any others).

Post by **Seneca37** » Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:16 am

Granted

Post by **Seneca37** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:19 pm

Any progress to report?

Post by **Gnomey** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:26 am

Revoked by request:

sasquatch2o wrote:Sorry, I'm indefinitely retiring from interiors. I won't be working further on these.

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:25 pm

Took a look at this claim and it has peaked my interest. Despite the fact that I wanted to try out making a claim from scratch, there is defiantly enough work to do here to keep me busy.

CLAIMING! I'll also be lowering the status to 40% completed because I feel that 70% is a large overstatement.

Rats · Post by **Rats** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:31 pm

Granted, happy modding!

Post by **Seneca37** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:43 pm

Sas. did put some effort into this interior. Unfortunately, he stopped working on this as soon as it was finally granted to him. So, try to salvage what you can, but feel free to make it yours. However - I'd like to see a way to get behind the bar, without having to jump over the counter. I'd also like there to be only one bar. And the interior felt way too large for the exterior, so can make it a bit smaller.

There is also a new TR_Data.esm and .bsa in http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=326349
This may prove useful if want to use ladders as Sas had planned on.

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:16 pm

Thank you for the claim, yeah I'll try to save what I can but I see alot of issues with the interior in it's current state.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:36 am

The fixable for sure. The ceiling needs to be fixed in seperated interior. This would most easily be done by copying in the main tavern which has already been fixed. Backroom is tricky, but so unique that it is worth the work. A switch is needed for portculis. Cart and feed and hay needed in upper area of back. The area above storage in backroom, the ramp, and railing will obv be the most difficult, but it can be done. It is not too large for ext and goes back into mountain. The idea is this an old section for storage in fortress modified for use as tavern then barn. It is a gathering place for adventurers. I took this int out of the box. There are areas where travelers could rent storage boxes to secure their loot or have goods delivered and held for them while away. There are also multiple paths for player to travel to loft thus makes miving around the interior more interesting. Removing the storage area would take the balls off this int. I think it is one of the more interesting parts of the design. Last, I believe seneca may not realize how difficult it is to work with this tileset. The main tavern is the same size as the neighboring one except for bar area that is cut into mountain away from other int. Dude behind bar is throwingstar master! Because he has had so much drunken practice. The backroom does not conflict w ext or the description I gave. I also hope npcrs will entertain the idea of making this a "hostile" area where combat is acceptable and not reported unless someone I killed or maybe other characters wouldn't react. Maybe semi organized and high level fist fights could be held in back. What I've done here took some doing I hope that will be respected and that I be kept and npc'd in an interesting and unique way that will make exploring it worthwhile and memorable.

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:17 am

Glad to hear from you sas, I honestly didn't really know where you were going with this claim and it helps to here what you were planning. Got a few questions: are loft and main supposed to be different areas because the top door in storage leads to loft and the bottom one seems to lead to main ... but from what I can tell they occupy the same physical space in the interior (+ they seem to just be duplicates of eachother). Also the hay in ... just about everywhere seem to be a bit of an eyesore (in my opinion) the asset isn't good enough to justify how much is in here. Lastly from what I can tell by referencing the local map 'Rift Pass', door 1 leads to the tavern and through that the storage; are/were there any plans for doors 2-4? Honestly this interior may be a bit much for me but we'll see how it plays out. Thanks for touching base.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:33 pm

I understand it could be a little confusing. The MAIN file is most recent the ceiling has been fixed and rooms added. Rooms should prob be in their own interior or merged with loft.

Main: The bottom door in main should goto bottom storage door. The ladder in main goes to loft. Loft should be inaccessible from either top or bottom other than using ladder (Railing blocks entry or falling). Top doors are inaccessible.

Loft: The rooms and wall likely needs to be moved back slightly from rail for movement. Top door goes to upper ramp door in storage. Ladder here exits into MAIN. Both LOFT and MAIN should appear to be the same room, in fact they are separate. I would suggest not NPCing the bottom area of LOFT. Its more like a false bottom/ top just to add interest and allow the ladder to work from both sides. Bottom door is inaccessible.

Storage: Top door connects LOFT / bottom door connects MAIN. Ramp allows for easy access and movement of heavier goods. Carts can enter using ramp (theoretically.) Back area is secure storage that holds loot for travelers (like deposit boxes) and also sells basic general gear like rope, boots, arrows, and rations.

Note: the same could be done with interiors, or even "dummy" exteriors, if copied into a duplicate exterior. The "exterior" space and day/night could be visible through open windows and broken walls (so long as they are small enough not to pass through.) This could be done to optimize highly detailed and cluttered exteriors or add interest to interiors.

Additional comments: Any duplicates or the inaccessible top/bottom door markers should be removed. Whether it all properly works can easily be tested in game. I had tested the ladder and that seemed to be working fine. I would copy over MAIN interior to LOFT to replace what is there then just update the door markers to connect the two doors and both ladders. Again MAIN and LOFT are required for the ladder to properly function. Hopefully this was clear.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:49 am

Any progress on this?

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:08 am

No progress, all my effort has been on my other interior due to its higher priority.

Post by **Seneca37** » Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:50 am

Any progress made here?

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:02 am

No progress has been made here still; if this needs to be done asap or there is a lack of open interiors I am glad to relinquish it to someone else.

Due to how I am managing my other interior I may start working on this if I have the chance while I wait for a response on my higher priority claim.

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:01 pm

Small Update

I've spent a lot of time on this interior since my last comment on this thread and all I can say is it will take quite some time to complete. Most of the hours I've invested have been just familiarizing myself with what has already been complete and what exactly was the direction. I believe I do have a better understanding of what was planned and what still needs to be done. Doors 2-4 on the picture 'local map: Rift pass1' haven't be worked on at all for instance. Below are more in depth thoughts and comments that I don't expect people to read unless they have a vested interest in this interior.

Here are a list of things I've significantly changed (somewhat for Sasquatch's benefit if he still checks the forum)

[spoiler]- I removed the interior 'TR_i5-60-Hla_Loftroom' completely.
I understand why sasquatch had it the way but it simply can't work, the engine doesn't support the concept the same reference of an item existing in two copies of the same interior. If I remove the gold from the table in 'TR_i4-60-Hla_Main' and go up the ladder to 'TR_i4-60-Hla_Loftroom' I will still be able to see the gold on the table. Worse yet, if I get back to the floor level somehow of 'TR_i4-60-Hla_Loftroom' (casting a missile version mark and then recalling comes to mind) I'll be able to get the same gold again. I'll see if I can figure out of way to keep the ladder concept but this isn't the way.

- I flipped the gate in 'TR_i5-60-Hla_Storage'
The Gate cant rise due to the fact that it would clip through the floor above it, it needs to drop. I would rather it rise too but the way it is set up it just can't.

- I added a doorway in the back of 'TR_i5-60-Hla_Storage'
It seems more in the spirit of a former Dunmer stronghold to have all of the rooms connected and this doorway will lead to whatever interior will be created for doors 2-4 (thinking about some sort of dorm with three doors rather than three separate rooms)[/spoiler]

Here are some things I had questions or concerns about.

[spoiler]-Custom ids
There was a barrel half merged in the floor of 'TR_i5-60-Hla_Main' to appear as only half a barrel. It was being used as a makeshift table by the patrons but it still acted as a container. I thought it was silly to have it hold items so I created a static with the barrel asset. My question is will this new id be absorbed into TR_Data.esm or should I just delete the barrel and scrap the concept?

-Gate Lever and Scripting
So I had a thought that because the storage had such a strong gate in front of it that it would be silly to have the lever outside the gate rather than inside. That brings up the question if the lever is inside of the storage area, how does one get to it? I thought maybe we could have a guard at the gate which can be asked to open it. I'm not sure if that is within my responsibilities or even within my power so its just a thought right now. I'll bring it up later once I get to that part.

-Fitting the exterior
The interior 'TR_i5-60-Hla_Main' doesn't fit the exterior perfectly; in the exterior the building curves to the left but the interior builds straight from the door. The mountain is big enough to have the storage area fit fine but the tavern part of the interior clips slightly outside of the bounds of the exterior building. Its not a big deal but I thought I would bring it up.[/spoiler]

Final point is that I think that the interior has alot of heart already and is worth the attention it will need to be complete but it will take a while. Being that the style of the storage area is so unique, there are issues with clipping and gaps that arent going to be easy to address. If/when they are addressed, however, I believe that this will be an interior worth visiting.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:30 pm

Sounds reasonable. Maybe there is a simpler way to get a working ladder on both sides. It will take some effort to get the back area up to snuff. Was pretty brute force piecing it together. Thanks for the update.

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:04 am

This isn't an update.

I have concerns about this claim and Rift pass in general. The interiors for the pass don't match well together. Also, the exterior fort does't make sense in a stratigical sense, all the fortifactions are on the Morrowind side (but it should be protecting against Skyrim). Maybe these things aren't a big deal but I find it very unimmersive and would like to make these issues known. Thanks!

Post by **Gnomey** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:53 pm

As near as I can tell, there seems to be general approval of [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24873]the idea[/url] of getting rid of this Rift Pass and reusing its interiors in a to-be-created stronghold exterior. I'm somewhat unsure as to whether we should leave these remaining claims up for claiming or whether we should lock them again for now, but either way any finished interiors will be used in the new location.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:17 pm

After 5 months of virtually no progress on this I'm surprised you've come to this conclusion just now. I know it this interior relatively matches the shell of the neighboring interior because I used those pieces in this claim and referee to the completed claims before I began.

Since you are claiming the interiors clash and are mismatched and the exterior is faulty I assume your suggestion is a complete remake of the interiors and exterior, or at least a major modification. Yet since you've yet to complete a string hold interior you likely have little to no appreciation for the time and skill required to make something unique that looks half decent. I think people are so willing to re so so much is because, frankly, every one has become a planner rather than a doer. Now that so many are set on recreating so much in so many new iterations, not like this is anything new, who will do the rebuilding? The deeper issue is that TR is creating a culture where poor planning is openly accepted and encouraged while actual creation is discouraging due to constantly remaking and removing existing content, stagnant progress and overly strict review policies. It is as though no one is capable of looking back from the end goal to say, "how will we complete this?" Instead, the most common question by far is, "How will we remake this better?" All while nothing is finished to begin with. This of course is all actively encouraged to point where I doubt there will ever be completion.

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:46 pm

First of all I would like to say any offense taking by my comment above really wasn't meant. No insult was intended on any one involved with Rift pass before I claim this interior and I enjoy many aspects of what is already there.

The exterior, though a little perplexing from the strategic sense as I already stated, is very unique and well done. Though it really doesn't follow the same way that normal strongholds are built in Morrowind, it reminds me of some kind of temple where Dunmer warriors might go to train. All and all from a purely ascetic sense it is pretty good.

The claim 'TR_i5-61-Red' is a simple yet effective interior. I particularly enjoy the shrine, it reminds me of many sights around Morrowind of spiritual importance. As for 'TR_i5-60-Red', it uses the stronghold set like I haven't seen before and yet in a way the feels familiar. The storage are is impressive to say the least, the ramps feel natural and the room behind the gate is stocked like how a real storage area would be. The tavern feels full of life even without people in it, only have a small issue with fitting to the exterior (something I probably only noticed because I'm working on it)

I'm not asking for any of what has already been worked on to be redone, all I was saying is that I have concerns about how it all fits together and what everyone else thought about this.

Sasquatch, I've already worked on one interior of yours before and I'd like to say that I like what I've seen from you. When I was picking this claim I was also considering 'TR_i5-56_Red' and I was amazed what the level of quality that I saw there. This interior isn't any different, I can tell you worked hard on it and the idea that I'm asking to redo it all would be frustrating.

That doesn't mean you can imply that I don't have the 'appreciation for time and skill' required to work on interiors that look 'half decent'. There is nothing wrong with questioning things and questioning whether these three claims work well together is a good question to ask. I'm sorry if I am taking too long with the interior. I am naturally very slow when I work but the idea that I am hording claims isn't fair; I easily spend much more time working on the claims I have than 'planning' in the forum. Now, if you think you or anyone else can do better with this interior I'll drop the claim and stick to 'easier' claims in the future.

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:19 pm

After thinking over what the thread Gnomey linked stated, finishing this interior seems to be the best course regardless if Rift Pass will be replaced or not. If the interiors will be reused in a future stronghold, however, would it just be better to finish what is here and forget the doors 2, 3, and 4? That would allow whoever is making the new stronghold exterior to have less restrictions on what they can make.

My plan was to connect the storage area in the back through some twisting hallways to the other doors to emulate the interior design of Vvardenfell strongholds, but if the interiors are going to be used in a new exterior that could cause issues with how the stronghold needed to be set up. Let me know what you think, in the mean time I'll focus on the what cells were already worked on. If we are forgetting about the other doors, I would say this claim is actually more like 70-80% done. I'm planning on officially updating before sunday.

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:07 am

Update!

Not much to say here, a lot of work has gone into this claim since last update. Been messing around with scripts on a different file to try and figure out a good way for the gate to work. 'TR_i5-60-Red_Storage' has changed the most since last time, had to make some questionable additions to try and get all the gaps in the interior closed.

If it's still expected of me to create interior(s) for the other doors left in the claim (doubt being here because of reasons stated above) I would say this claim is about half way there. Otherwise, I'm pretty certain that 80-90% done is fair for this current file.

Miraclestone · Post by **Miraclestone** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:01 am

Update!

Work on this interior has been slow and little has changed since last time. Refer to previous posts to understand the current situation and goal.

EDIT: I attached the file to the post instead of updating the claim so I fixed it.

Post by **Seneca37** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:55 pm

I let progress reporting lapse during the summer.
Just checking that you're still planning on finishing this.