House borders maps

[Opiece]

Swiftoak told me that there used to be some maps setting House borders, but they got lost with the old forums. So, while I can't be of any help right now with the CS, I thought I might help you with the planning, and just made several maps setting house borders. They're either based on Swiftoak's Concept Map of Morrowind, or the real Morrowing in-game map of the landscape.
The good thing is I made these with Gimp, so the background image (aka the map) can be updated as it gets more precisely detailed. If you like my House borders maps, just tell me and I'll update them.


[url=http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/Opiece06/media/Houseborders-Conceptmapwithborders_zpsd6db804f.jpg.html][img]http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag211/Opiece06/Houseborders-Conceptmapwithborders_zpsd6db804f.jpg[/img][/url]


This first map is based on the theoretical control of the Houses + Temple on Morrowind's territory. Basically, what it highlights is to which House (or the Temple) the lands belong. So, for example, there is a difference between the Temple control of Eastern Vvardenfell + Necrom peninsula (as in the Temple controlling lands), and the Temple control of monasteries and Almas Thirr (as in the Temple controlling settlements).
This is also why the Imperials are absent of this map, because they don't technically control any lands except for Solstheim.
I also tried to set the borders on some geographical feature: Hlaalu/Indoril and Redoran/Hlaalu lands are separated by rivers, Hlaalu/Dres, Indoril/Dres and Indoril/Telvanni lands are separated by mountain slopes, etc.
For example, if someone included a House borders map in-game (in an Imperial book, for example), it should be based off that one.


[url=http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/Opiece06/media/RealisticHouseborders-Conceptmapwithborders_zps5f9fcd76.jpg.html][img]http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag211/Opiece06/RealisticHouseborders-Conceptmapwithborders_zps5f9fcd76.jpg[/img][/url]


This map reflects the more practical side of faction control on Morrowind. It highlights the implementation of Imperial and Temple settlements on Morrowind. For instance, we can see that Imperials are the most present in Hlaalu territory. It can also be used to balance these settlements according the House in control (for example, IMO, there shouldn't be any Imperial settlement on Indoril lands except for Old Ebonheart).
It also shows the Nord partial control of Uld Vraech.
I didn't include any Taj Eel Xa'nith (= Argonian) control in southern Deshaan though, because that point isn't really clear enough yet.
Basically, I guess this map should be used more for development purposes.


[url=http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/Opiece06/media/Houseborders-Realmapwithborders_zpsa886d956.jpg.html][img]http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag211/Opiece06/Houseborders-Realmapwithborders_zpsa886d956.jpg[/img][/url]


Finally, this map is the same as the first one, except that it doesn't use Swiftoak's conceptual map but the in-game map.
It doesn't serve any specific purpose, except for being more precise. I guess it could also be used for development, as it helps show what would be the clear boundaries of House lands.
There's an alternate version without the borders, which only includes the colored areas:

[spoiler][url=http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/Opiece06/media/Houseborders-Realmapwithoutborders_zpsdda52f25.jpg.html][img]http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag211/Opiece06/Houseborders-Realmapwithoutborders_zpsdda52f25.jpg[/img][/url][/spoiler]


I hope these maps'll be of some use to you Also, if you don't agree with the current borders, just tell me and I can change them. They're pretty easy to modify, so don't hesitate. Let me know what you think of them!


PS: Again, I don't really know where that topic belongs, so I'll leave it up to you

[Gnomey]

My biggest criticisms would actually be with the borders on Vvardenfell. Garisa Llethri is [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/red-book-3e-426]Lord of The northern Ashlands[/url], for instance, while Athyn Sarethi is Lord of South Gash, which is probably the area around Caldera, and the Telvanni border is debatable. Naturally the Vvardenfell borders aren't too important, though.

For mainland borders, I would suggest cutting out a chunk of Indoril land around Old Ebonheart, as it is probably officially not Indoril land anymore. I'd also suggest making a chunk of land around the Redoran outposts in Hlaalu territory Redoran. I'm not entirely sure on either point, though. Very nice maps.

[Haplo]

You mean this map?

http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/g/maps/map_mw_factions.jpg

[Opiece]

You mean this map?

http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/g/maps/map_mw_factions.jpg

Heh, so Swiftoak lied to me? :p

Jokes aside, this map looks nice (better than mine I must say).
Is it up to date though? It seems to me that Cormar is no longer a Hlaalu settlement. Also, if we have to single out Imperial settlements, this map doesn't include Helnim (and the -moth forts, if they are to be included). The Telvanni/Indoril and Indoril/Dres borders are not the same: the Telvanni/Indoril one is higher up on the western part (including Helnim in Indoril lands), and the Indoril/Dres one is higher up on the eastern part, cutting right through the Lan Orethan. Finally, the Telvanni lands shouldn't include any part of Vvardenfell, except for the controversial Tel Vos and Tel Uvirith regions.
However, I have two questions:
- what do the black lines represent?
- should the Hlaalu still be so high up in their western part (and should they control the region between Kartur/Bodrem and Verarchen) ?

My biggest criticisms would actually be with the borders on Vvardenfell. Garisa Llethri is Lord of The northern Ashlands, for instance, while Athyn Sarethi is Lord of South Gash, which is probably the area around Caldera, and the Telvanni border is debatable. Naturally the Vvardenfell borders aren't too important, though.

For mainland borders, I would suggest cutting out a chunk of Indoril land around Old Ebonheart, as it is probably officially not Indoril land anymore. I'd also suggest making a chunk of land around the Redoran outposts in Hlaalu territory Redoran. I'm not entirely sure on either point, though. Very nice maps.

That is not a problem, though, because I can change the borders if needed. However, I'm not sure which part of the territory corresponds to the "northern Ashlands". I'll make the change for the South Gash, though. I wasn't too sure about the Telvanni border, but IIRC, they aren't supposed to be on Vvardenfell strictly speaking, right? I also just realised the Temple/Telvanni shared region around Vos is the other way around: the dotted line should be on the Temple side, not the Telvanni one (not sure if you'll get me, but that's not really important).

Concerning Old Ebonheart, I'm not really sure what to do. I also considered an Imperial region around Pelagiad, Ebonheart-on-Vvardenfell, Teyn and Seyda Neen.
But then, I don't know if the Imperials should control land per se. My take is that they do control settlements, but these settlements are on "borrowed" lands. Again, the first map doesn't reflect the practical side of faction control, but the ideal division of Morrowind's lands between the Houses + Temple. But then, if we decide the Imperials have been given lands and not just settlements, I can change that too.
And seeing the Redoran officially control the outposts on Lake Coronaci, it should be shown on the "ideal" map.

Thanks for your input!

[Gnomey]

The map Haplo linked is not up-to-date. I personally prefer your Indoril-Dres border, and I think your Indoril-Telvanni border is also fine. I'm not actually sure about the Hlaalu-Redoran border. Cormaris is slated to become a Redoran settlement, but still needs to be discussed.

The old map does actually include Helnim as Imperial land, its territory is just tiny. I do, however, think you were right in not giving Imperial settlements their own borders in your main map, with the exception of Old Ebonheart. (I'd just give it a little square of territory; the cells in which the city is as well as the cells to the immediate north and west).

The black lines represent rough district borders. These should not completely line up with House borders; they should instead represent the rough status quo at the time of the Armistice. I'm not a big fan of how they are shown in the old map. I completely forgot to link [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24296]this thread[/url] before, though, which should be fairly helpful.

To my understanding, the northern Ashlands are the whole Ashland area north of Red Mountain, naturally not including Sheogorad.

Your Telvanni regions are indeed correct, on second thought; that was my mistake.

[Haplo]

As Gnomey said, the map is not up-to-date; it was made in 2010, so the exact borders and regions will differ from what we have discussed and planned out in more recent work. I just wanted to make sure it was freely accessible as a resource, since there was some concern that it was lost

[Opiece]

So I've updated two of the maps to take into account the comments you made.

[url=http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/Opiece06/media/Houseborders-Realmapwithborders_zps9c7b8649.jpg.html][img]http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag211/Opiece06/Houseborders-Realmapwithborders_zps9c7b8649.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://s1369.photobucket.com/user/Opiece06/media/Houseborders-Conceptmapwithborders_zps9c19c81d.jpg.html][img]http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag211/Opiece06/Houseborders-Conceptmapwithborders_zps9c19c81d.jpg[/img][/url]

I gave a little spot to the Imperials around Old Ebonheart, and I've added the northern ashlands and the two small settlements on the Hlaalu lake (sorry, forgot its name) to Redoran territory.

The thing I'm not too sure about is the South Gash Gnomey mentioned being in Redoran territory (and my two maps currently contradict each other on that point). I suppose the area around Caldera could be included in Imperial lands as it also includes the mine, but I don't know if it's considered to be borrowed lands or not. Also, if Redoran lands in Vvardenfell are to include more Southern lands, I don't really know where they should stop, and which settlements to include or not (I suppose Maar Gan would be kept in Hlaalu lands).

[Gnomey]

Hm, from Morrowind dialogue:

House Redoran is really steamed up about the Caldera land grab. They say that Caldera is in their territory, and that they should have gotten the charter.

I'd make it a disputed zone, like Vos.

The more I look into it, the more I think that House Redoran is supposed to own most of Vvardenfell outside of Bittercoast, Ascadian Isles, Azura's Coast and Red Mountain. That seems to have been the [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/gallery_files/concept_morrowind.jpg]original concept[/url] before Bethesda decided to squish everything onto Vvardenfell, and there is a [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Redoran_Stronghold]Redoran Stronghold[/url] way off in Molag Mar. What is the source for the Temple owning the whole strip of central Vvardenfell, anyway? Though, again, the situation on Vvardenfell isn't overly important.

Your other changes are all good.

[Opiece]

Thanks for the clarification about Caldera, Gnomey. I'll make the necessary changes, then

What is the source for the Temple owning the whole strip of central Vvardenfell, anyway?

To be honest, I'm not a 100% sure about the Temple owning central/Eastern Vvardenfell. I recall having read that the Temple used to own all of Vvardenfell before it opened up to House colonisation, so it seems logical that they'd keep the control of the uncolonised parts (besides the settlements, of course). However I haven't found the source for what I'm saying and I'm definitely not a expert of Morrowind's history, so I'm open to any changes.



I'm just stating this a side-note, but it could be cool to include Morrowind's (illegal?) colonisation in some questlines. For instance, a more politically active branch of the Temple could try to get Vos back, but I'm not sure how practical or easy to implement that could be.

[Yeti]

Most Great House borders seem to be pretty porous overall, and regardless of the land they directly administer, the Empire and the Temple technically share joint sovereignty over the entire province, so I don't think any one map can properly describe the political division of Morrowind's lands.

Also,

In 3E 414, Vvardenfell Territory, previously a Temple preserve under Imperial protection, was reorganized as an Imperial Provincial District. Vvardenfell had been maintained as a preserve administrated by the Temple since the Treaty of the Armistice, and except for a few Great House settlements sanctioned by the Temple, Vvardenfell was previously uninhabited and undeveloped. But when the centuries-old Temple ban on trade and settlement of Vvardenfell was revoked by King of Morrowind, a flood of Imperial colonists and Great House Dunmer came to Vvardenfell, expanding old settlements and building new ones.

[Gnomey]

Ah right. So basically the switch to Vvardenfell -- and thereby the quarantine -- appears to have messed things up. As we're getting rid of the quarantine, though, I'm not sure whether we need to pay attention to that line.

[Yeti]

I don't see any reason at all for ignoring it. It perfectly explains why Vvardenfell is underdeveloped compared to the rest of the province, and why outlander colonists have only begun settling it recently. I also fail to see how the debunked quarantine has anything to do with this thematically.

[Seneca37]

What about House Dagoth? Why are they only on Vv? Any lore about them? Did they have any territory on the Mainland? Just some questions to think about.

[Gnomey]

I think the only real clue as to their territory is that Kogoruhn was apparently a sixth House base, presumably before the Battle of Red Mountain, which would indeed make one assume that House Dagoth's territory roughly overlapped with Vvardenfell. My guess would be Vvardenfell and mainland Telvannis, as House Telvanni either didn't exist or had withdrawn to Port Telvannis at that time. It is equally possibly that House territories were far more fractured at that time, and consequently far smaller.

I don't think it's too important, though. At the time of Morrowind the sixth House is spreading its influence from Red Mountain, where Dagoth Ur and the heart reside, not from wherever House Dagoth power was originally centered. (Almost certainly not Red Mountain).

As for the matter of the Temple controlling a large part of Vvardenfell, my assumption was actually that that was not supposed to explain why Vvardenfell was underdeveloped, but rather why it is overdeveloped. For an island apparently originally planned to be Redoran ashlands with the coastal Temple city of 'Vivace' and a honking big volcano, suddenly you have three Houses, several Imperial settlements which were probably originally intended to be spread over the mainland (like Ebonheart) and four Ashland tribes squeezed in-between.

So to justify how crowded everything is and the number of outlanders in that backwater of Morrowind, (stated as being a 1-to-1 ratio of outlanders to natives in-game), Bethesda came up with the explanation that it was a Temple reserve recently opened up to settlement, resulting in a free-for-all.

The bottom line, though, is that I'm fine with leaving Vvardenfell south and east of the Red Mountain region Temple controlled, if only because those areas are virtually uninhabited anyway and I feel the difference is too small to warrant much discussion.