OE Castle

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:50 am

I guess we would have to consider how OE was even founded. is there any lore that details its creation/founding?

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:37 am

I don't think Bethesda has elaborated on Ebonheart's creation, but [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24467]gro-Dahl has[/url]. Given its good reception in the comments below and its inclusion in TR_Data, I think it's safe to say that that's the story we're going with. (Accounting for the limited point of view of the author, of course).

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:21 am

That text is ok, if a little too vague. Understandable that it's best to try and create too much lore for the founding of the settlement though...but Shezar temple...really? I would find more of a correlation between Shezzarine and Alduin, therefore Akatosh, therein a dragon would be best to be placed atop the castle. But one of Wulfharth would be cool to have inside the throne room or out in one of the courtyards...

Post by **Gnomey** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:15 am

Keep in mind that that text was written by an Imperial scholar working with limited sources of information. As an example, the 'temple of Shezzar' was not simply a temple in which Shezzar/Lorkhan was worshipped; gro-Dhal explained it as "[...] a Psijic-like philosophical order that was a power player in Chimer culture, and was purged due to some dispute with the Tribunal." As Lorkhan has always played an important if oft understated role in Dunmeri metaphysics, that doesn't strike me as too much of a stretch. The scholar doesn't have that information, though, only knowing that the temple is linked with Lorkhan, and fills in the blank with a more familiar concept.

To me linking a Shezzarine to Alduin seems a little unnatural, as they are opposing forces, or different sides of the same coin. To me it seems more straightforward to link the Shezzarines and Shezzar, and leave the dragons in New Ebonheart. While Akatosh is somewhat of a synthesis of Aka/Auri-El and Shezzar, he's still mostly on the dragon side of the divide, while Talos is firmly on the Shezzar side.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:29 am

Would it be greedy to ask for both a dragon and man statue? Dragon for castle and man in the plaza inside main gate.

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:24 am

Akatosh is mainly duality anyway, gnomey lol. but yes like i said, can we get one of each? seriosuly, OE is too big to not have at least a FEW awesome new meshes.

Post by **Seneca37** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:54 pm

Do you want this handled as TF did before? Where the basic architectural elements are done first, and then claims are opened to the modders for interior designing? This will keep the look/feel of the castle consistent.

I wouldn't mind doing this, but will need a good understanding of who/what is in here. For example, who will have secret passages? Some of this work may also require some minor mods to the exterior.

Here is a listing of the 70 (yes 70) interiors that TF and others created for the original castle. I would try to reuse what I can, but note that a lot of these are HUGE and would never fit in the current castle. Some of these may have been relegated to OE the city, so they may not be needed in the castle anymore. And, I will, of course, be sure that there is a HUGE, HUGE kitchen ;D .

[spoiler]
Hall of Records, Guild Records
Hall of Records
Hall of Records, Top Floor
Hall of Records, Legion Records
Hall of Records, Cult Records
Hall of Records, Navy Records
Hall of Records, Prison Records
Barracks
Valenwood Embassy
Hammerfell Embassy
Elsweyr Embassy
Summerset Embassy
Southwest Curtain Wall
South Tower
South Tower Top
South Tower Middle
Southeast Curtain Wall
Legion Headquarters Tower
Legion Headquarters Tower; Top
East Curtain Wall
Imperial Cult Shrine
Imperial Cult Tower
North Eastern Curtain Wall
Middle Curtain Wall
Northern Curtain Wall
Legion Training Hall
Northwestern Curtain Wall
Hall of Records Tower
Outer Western Curtain Wall
Inner Western Curtain Wall
West Tower
Main Tower, Lower Levels
Vault
Dockside Complex
Imperial Cult Offices
Dres Duke's Quarters
Governor's Quarters
Governor's Private Guards' Quarters
Governor's Quarters: Upper Level
Fighter's Guild
Mage's Guild
Legion Headquarters Building
Imperial Cult Shrine: Shops
Imperial Cult Shrine: Library
Imperial Cult Shrine: Restaurant
Imperial Cult Shrine: General Supplies
Imperial Cult Shrine: Bookseller
Imperial Cult Shrine: Clothier
Imperial Cult Shrine: Alchemist
Imperial Cult Shrine: Fletcher
Imperial Cult Shrine: Enchanter
Main Tower: Lower Atrium
West Tower: Upper Levels
Kitchen
Service Stairs
Main Tower: Reception Floor
Main Tower: Young Lawyer's Office
Main Tower: Senior Lawyer's Office
Main Tower: Average Lawyer's Office
Main Tower: Atrium Stairs
Main Tower: Judge 1's Chambers
Main Tower: Judge 2's Chambers
Main Tower: Lower Dining Hall
Main Tower: Court
Main Tower: Garden
Main Tower: Lower Offices
Main Tower: Middle Offices
Main Tower: Throne Room
Main Tower: Grand Dining Hall
Main Tower: Upper Offices
[/spoiler]

bronwhitehill · Post by **bronwhitehill** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:03 pm

Regarding Tahriel, there was a post on the Morrowind subreddit finding that he had in fact come from Caldera, or at least, this is where he started his fateful jump. [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/Morrowind/comments/144au5/csi_vvardenfell_tarhiel_lived_in_caldera/[/url] I don't know if this is relevant.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:09 pm

I had wanted to get around to putting together a suggested list of interiors for the castle, but never did. Here are the notes I took; I'm not sure how out of date they are:

Castle Living Quarters:
Imperial Room
Ducal Rooms (6) (Duke of Deshaan in residence, Duke of Mournhold is Helseth, not sure about the Duke of Velothis)
Head of Legion
Head of Navy(?)
Knight of the Imperial Dragon
Minister of Provincial Affairs
Minister of House N Affairs (5)
Minister of Temple Affairs(?)
Minister of Treasury and Trade
Tarhiel (court magician)
Lord Chaimberlain?
servant quarters...

Rooms:
council chamber + throne(?)
main hall/reception area + feasting hall(?)
kitchens
library(?)
legion HQ/barracks
navy HQ/barracks(?)
(storage)
prison

City Residents:
EEC Factor (manor in the city)
Mayor of OE? (manor in the city?)
Captain of the Townsguard (in one of the wall forts?)

Not Present:
King Helseth Hlaalu - Mournhold
other dukes...
Proconsul - Narsis

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:51 pm

As for rooms, I'm guessing we would still want to have the Summerset Isle, High Rock, and Elsweyr missions, correct? That list looks great, by the way.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:14 pm

I'm not actually sure; the only reason there were Argonian and Skyrim missions in (New) Ebonheart was because those provinces were bordering Morrowind, so to me it never made too much sense to add the others. Morrowind is so insular it doesn't get much contact with the provinces it isn't bordering. I would have nothing against adding small missions just for the heck of it, though.

Post by **Seneca37** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:47 pm

I would say that that main purpose of each of the provincial missions is to provide aid to any and all citizens of their province. This would especially be true in Morrowind, due to slavery being so prevalent. Even though the armistice allowed MW to still keep slaves, each ambassador would try his/her best to free any slaves from their province. This might be highlighted in a quest, possible of the fighters guild. A chest of gold from Elsweyr, destined to the mission - for the sole purpose of purchasing some Khajiit slaves - has gone missing (stolen by bandits) and the player must return the money before the slaves are sold off to someone else.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Jan 03, 2015 11:57 pm

Yeah, that makes sense. Now that you mention the idea for the Elsweyr Mission, I think I recall there being an idea for the Summerset Isles Mission having subtle references to the Thalmor and -- I think -- the High Rock Mission having some sort of Helseth connection or something, both of which should also be worth exploring, so it's not as though the missions would be without a purpose.

Dragon32 · Post by **Dragon32** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:37 am

seneca37 wrote:I would say that that main purpose of each of the provincial missions is to provide aid to any and all citizens of their province.
<snip>

IMHO I don't agree. In the modern world, sure, that's what embassy's are for. In a fake, fantasy medieval-esque world though? Back then kings and queens were their countries and the rank and file of the plebiscite were of no importance or interest. Beyond providing taxes, tithes and cannon fodder (if you'll forgive the anachronism

).

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:33 am

I don't know if this is important but there was a book written in the sewers of OE discussing the early construction of the city. I can't get the CS to install on my pc for some reason, else I'd copy paste it for you. I remember it talked about the foundations being laid.

Post by **Seneca37** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:52 pm

Dragon32 wrote:IMHO I don't agree. <snip>... the rank and file of the plebiscite were of no importance or interest. Beyond providing taxes, tithes and cannon fodder (if you'll forgive the anachronism ).

I see your point. How about, with 3 missions, each one handles the slaves differently. 1 mission (maybe Elsweyr)actively trying to rescue their people, another (maybe High Rock) couldn't care less, and I would think the Summerset Isle mission would be overtly non-caring, but in reality most of the High Elf slaves are actually spies, passing secret notes to the mission.

Rats · Post by **Rats** » Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:25 pm

Hemitheon wrote:I don't know if this is important but there was a book written in the sewers of OE discussing the early construction of the city. I can't get the CS to install on my pc for some reason, else I'd copy paste it for you. I remember it talked about the foundations being laid.

I couldn't find the book from your old sewers file, Hemi. The only reference to the city's construction I found was an inscription by the shrine of Saint Kaladas: [spoiler]"Foundation Stone of Leyawiin Chapel. Moved to Ebonheart by order of Her Majesty Empress Kintyrah I to commemorate the death of Saint Kaladas and the construction of Ebonheart Castle. 7th day of Morning Star, 42 3E."[/spoiler]

bronwhitehill wrote:Regarding Tahriel, there was a post on the Morrowind subreddit finding that he had in fact come from Caldera, or at least, this is where he started his fateful jump. [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/Morrowind/comments/144au5/csi_vvardenfell_tarhiel_lived_in_caldera/[/url] I don't know if this is relevant.

I don't think that's solid enough to be relevant for us. It's pretty funny a theory, though

Gnomey wrote:I had wanted to get around to putting together a suggested list of interiors for the castle, but never did. Here are the notes I took; I'm not sure how out of date they are:

Castle Living Quarters:
Imperial Room
Ducal Rooms (6) (Duke of Deshaan in residence, Duke of Mournhold is Helseth, not sure about the Duke of Velothis)
Head of Legion
Head of Navy(?)
Knight of the Imperial Dragon
Minister of Provincial Affairs
Minister of House N Affairs (5)
Minister of Temple Affairs(?)
Minister of Treasury and Trade
Tarhiel (court magician)
Lord Chaimberlain?
servant quarters...

This looks good, though the Head of the Navy is in the Navy Command HQ by the Docks.

Gnomey wrote: City Residents:
EEC Factor (manor in the city)
Mayor of OE? (manor in the city?)
Captain of the Townsguard (in one of the wall forts?)

Right now we haven't planned a mayor for OE. There's not an available manor for the mayor in the town (unless we make the eccentric Ruma Soanix the mayor of OE; come to think of it it wouldn't be that bad an idea).

All in all, good stuff, Gnomey. Here's how I would spread the various NPCs in the various buildings in the castle:

[img]http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah37/RyanSTR/Tamriel%20Rebuilt/0d8e5691-f42f-454f-8652-53b9ca98a327_zps3f1cd3d8.png[/img]

1. The Provincial Administration
VIPs
- Minister of the Treasury Parandil
- Minister of Justice Belisatha Mede
- Minister of House Hlaalu Affairs Glaucia Rumariil
- Minister of House Redoran Affairs Hjortyn Silver-Tongue
- Minister of House Indoril Affairs Aramius Marolus
- Minister of House Telvanni Affairs Menervius Venius
- Minister of House Dres Affairs Dels Sur-Enaren
- Minister of Temple Affairs Nerasa Veran

Interior: a ministers' council chamber which can double for a courtroom, living quarter / offices for each of the ministers, treasury

2. The Main Castle
VIPs
- Duke Phyrios Mattimus of Deshaan Disctrict
- Lord Chamberlain Caros Cocceius (acts as the castellan in the absence of the King or the Emperor, while the Duke is more like a special guest)
- Captain of the Guard Erys Mundrethi
- Court Wizard Tarhiel
- Master of the Hunt Vattian Clanler
- Master of the Kitchen Hears-Through-Walls

Interior: a Ducal council chamber for the rare meetings between the Dukes of Morrowind, an Imperial suite (kept ready for the Emperor), an atrium which can double for a feasthall w/ a throne reserved for the odd chance that the King or the Emperor should pay a visit, the kitchens, an office for a Blades operative, living quarters for the Duke of Deshaan, living quarters for the staff (Tarhiel's living quarters should have a roof access), library.

3. The Legion Headquarters
VIPs
- Lord General Caecalia Victrix
- Knight of the Imperial Dragon Olfvur Steel-Skin

Interior: living quarters for the VIPs, a war room / office for the Lord General, a barracks, a hall of records, an arsenal w/ blacksmith, a jail/dungeon

5. Some of the embassies here(?) (missions could/should probably be divided among different buildings [#1, #2, #7] though)
High Rock Mission
- Ambassador Doniphan Messor
- Ambassador Esolde Vene
- Orsinium Ambassador Ogrub gro-Nag
- 1 or 2 of their bodyguards/servants

Elsweyr Mission
- Ambassador-Prince Ji'Morashu-ri
- Ambassador Dro'jorr
- 1 or 2 of their bodyguards/servants; and a few escaped slaves

Summerset Isle Mission
- Ambassador Elteryn of Firsthold
- 1 or 2 bodyguards/servant

Seneca37 Edit: Fixed issue with castle layout image.

Post by **Seneca37** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:49 pm

Should there be a main Census and Excise Office in the castle? The CE office at the docks would just handle OE shipping, and CE office at the main gate just handles visitor/traders. The castle would house the main offices and all the records.

Castle Services? TF had the whole array of services (clothier, smith, alchemist ...) provided by the IC. I know the IL is a good place for a smith - do we want the other services as well?

We'll also need the empty vault right?( there are plans for a quest here?)

Rats · Post by **Rats** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:39 am

seneca37 wrote:Should there be a main Census and Excise Office in the castle? The CE office at the docks would just handle OE shipping, and CE office at the main gate just handles visitor/traders. The castle would house the main offices and all the records.

I don't know, that's an awful lot of Census and Excise Offices for one town, even one as big as Old Ebonheart. All the Census records would of course be archived in the Castle, so I suppose a modest office with a clerk responsible for them would be in order. I am not sure if the Grand Inspector of CE should be in the castle or at the docks office.

seneca37 wrote:Castle Services? TF had the whole array of services (clothier, smith, alchemist ...) provided by the IC. I know the IL is a good place for a smith - do we want the other services as well?

Yes, the Imperial Legion would definitely have the smith. The Clothier and the Alchemist could very naturally be included in the Castle Household (Master of the Robes, Court Alchemist).

seneca37 wrote:We'll also need the empty vault right?( there are plans for a quest here?)

Yes, the vaults will be included in the Mages' Guild questline in Old Ebonheart. The whole of the vault is not supposed to be empty, only the lowest level through which the robbers blasted their way in and escaped (via the sewers). The gold treasury and whatever crown jewels there are in the vaults are still mostly there.

Post by **Seneca37** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:57 am

Rats wrote:I don't know, that's an awful lot of Census and Excise Offices for one town, even one as big as Old Ebonheart. All the Census records would of course be archived in the Castle, so I suppose a modest office with a clerk responsible for them would be in order. I am not sure if the Grand Inspector of CE should be in the castle or at the docks office.

My thoughts are that the C.E. office would be rather large, in fact, it could possibly be the 2nd largest group of Imperials in MW (the Imperial Legion would be the largest).
Because dark elves don't have many children, the census part would mostly be concerned with outlanders immigrating to MW. However, the Empire truly despises the slave trade and has made it their chief concern in MW. With the Armastice in place, this is the only way that the empire can try to combat slavery. Even though they are slaves, they are still citizen of the Empire and the owner must pay the taxes. So a large part of their work is counting slaves.

The office by the docks would just take care of the shipping importing/exporting tariffs associated with the OE port, staffed with 1 or 2 people. The office at the main gate would take care of visitors/traders coming into town. Only 1 person is required here. The main C.E. offices would be in the castle. I would put the Grand Inspector here, along with the head of smuggling investigations (with a different title of course), and maybe a head of delinquent tax collection. The head of smuggling would be in command of a few small teams of elite agents. He would
probably be complaining that he doesn't have enough agents to cover all of MW. The head of delinquent tax collection is irate over the fact that one of his agents was murdered in Seyda Neen. He would be very friendly to the player if he/she solved the case. He could also be in negotiations with his counter part at the Imperial Legion to get his agents armed escorts for the wilder sections of MW.

Here are some dialogues about the Census and Excise agents that I've used to come up with this.

Sevis Teran:
Census and Excise is the Imperial agency that collects taxes and tariffs. You know... the taxman. Their agents also investigate smugglers and other tax cheats.

Adaves Therayn:
They're the Imperial tax collectors. They hunt smugglers and tax dodgers.

Addhiranirr:
You do not know this? They are the collectors of the Emperor's taxes and tariffs. And the Emperor has outlawed trade in many things, like Dwemer artifacts and ebony, and a Census and Excise agent will enjoy being a pest about such things. For several reasons, a Census and Excise agent is not Addhiranirr's favorite person. <snip>

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:22 am

We discussed the idea of a place within the castles for refugees of various sorts to hide out, and settled for one of the round towers for that purpose. However, now that I think about it, that sort of stuff is what the missions are typically there for. Wouldn't adding a Cyrodiil mission make more sense?
Perhaps tower 9 in the above image can be used to that end; I mentioned the idea of using several bridges to access the different floors of the tower. Perhaps the top floor could be (say) the Valenwood mission, the floor below the Hammerfell mission, the floor below that the Cyrodiil mission, and a trap door could lead to the lower floor, which would have bunks for refugees. For that matter, there is room for an attic that could be used to that end as well.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:57 am

I had an idea brought up on IRC a moment ago, and thought I'd bring it to the forums. As seen on [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Tarhiel]this page[/url], Tarhiel, the court wizard of OE castle, can quite possibly survive his fall, but he says little and goes nowhere. The general idea was that if the player were to save Tarhiel, he would end up returning to his quarters in the castle. Here is a chat log on the subject:
[spoiler]RyanS: Random subject, but I was thinking, since Tarhiel (court wizard) could possibly survive his fall, as seen here: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Tarhiel ,
RyanS: that he could end up returning to the castle, but keep repeating his "I don't want to talk about it" line. It could be a fun easter egg for the player.
Gnomey: Haha, yeah, true.
Gnomey: We could actually do stuff with him if we wanted to,
Gnomey: though that's the sort of thing where we might want to be careful so as to avoid conflicts.
RyanS: yes, definitely
Gnomey: (Though at the moment I think avoiding conflicts should be pretty easy).
Gnomey: I remember Fliggerty putting a bed below Tarhiel and making him bounce up and down on it instead of going splat.

RyanS: lol
RyanS: We need more npcs like that at TR:P
Gnomey: Yeah.
Gnomey: Hm.
Gnomey: Quest showcases wuld be good for that sort of thing, except they'd need to include an actual quest,
Gnomey: which sort of defeats the purpose...
arvisrend: i'd rather not overdo tariehl
Gnomey: Yeah, I agree there.
arvisrend: i wouldn't want to write his dialogue certainly
arvisrend: on the technical side, most people will have a character that has already found his corpse
Gnomey: I was thinking maybe someone in the castle might be bothered to ask the palyer to find him/bring him back.
Gnomey: If he returns to the castle, I'd figure we'd use a duplicate NPC, if anything,
Gnomey: and just disable the original.
arvisrend: maybe some enchanter somewhere remembers him being his apprentice a while ago[/spoiler]
We were mostly thinking that Tarhiel would just repeat his, "I don't want to talk about it." line, and that his occurence in the castle would serve as a fun easter egg for the player.

Post by **Seneca37** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:21 pm

[img]http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/ah37/RyanSTR/Tamriel%20Rebuilt/0d8e5691-f42f-454f-8652-53b9ca98a327_zps3f1cd3d8.png[/img]

Proposed occupants for the various buildings within the Old Ebonheart Castle.

Building 1: Administrative Offices(Provincial Cabinet, Ministers) Each Minister will have an office area and a private chambers. Whatever does not fit into here will go into Right Tower 11.
Treasury
Justice (Also serves as court room)
Temple Affairs
5 House Ministers
Basement:
Hall of Records

Building 2: Main Castle
6 Ducal Chambers
Duke of Deshan lives here
Emperor's Room
2 Imperial Guest Rooms (One for Imperial Proconsul)
Meeting Room with Throne
Court Wizard (Tarhiel). (NW corner circular tower)
Imperial Dining Hall
Below Ground:
Library (Librarian may or may not sell stuff)
2 Imperial Vaults (lower one is empty Ã¢â‚¬â€œ due to robbery quest)

Building 3: Imperial Legion
Head of Legion Office & Private Chamber
Knight of the Imperial Dragon for Mournhold (Chamber)
Imperial Legion Halls ( Barracks/Dining )
Imperial Legion Smithy
Basement:
Jail/Dungeon

Building 4: Barracks
Guard Barracks
Captain of the Guard Office/Residence

Building 5: Castle Services
1st Floor: Kitchen
2nd Floor: Dining Area
3rd Floor:
Lord Chamberlain Office and Residence
Master of the Hunt Office and Residence
Master of the Kitchen Room
Basement: To include area to the South of Building 5
Servants/Apprentices Quarters

Building 6: Missions/Restaurant
High Rock Mission
2 Ambassador Chambers
1 Orsinium Ambassador Room (Tiny)
Guard/Staff Room Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Probably in Basement
Summerset Isle Mission
1 Ambassador
Guards/Staff Ã¢â‚¬â€œ Probably in Basement
Restaurant

Building 7: Excise Office Building
Currently undergoing repairs.
5 District Excise Officers moved to Leftmost Tower 11
Basement: Excise Records

Building 8: Census Office Building
Offices for the 5 district Census officers
Basement: Census Records

Building 9: Possible Mission Building (would need a new exterior door at ground level)
Cyrodiil
Valenwood
Hammerfell

Building 10: Elsweyr Mission
2 Ambassadors Quarters
General Meeting Area
Room for 2 Guards
Basement: Staff Rooms

Building 11 :(Towers)
Leftmost: Housing Excise Offices
Rightmost: More Excise Offices if needed, and spill over from B1 if needed.

Building 12: (Towers)
North: GateHouse, Storage vaults
South: Staircase to upper level wall, entrance to curtain wall system

Building 13: Small gate towers, curtain wall, & Tower.
Possible location for Court Physican in the Tower to West of Imperial Legion

An Atrium area is proposed under the main courtyard. This would connect the library in Building 2 and the Hall of Records in Building 1. Possible other passageways to the Imperial Legion, interior curtain wall. Some could be secret.

Map of Sewer, just below Castle
The hatch in the middle of the sewer system would lead to the atrium. The left corridor will have an opening that leads to the robbed imperial vault under building 2.

Proposed exterior changes
New exterior ground level doors for buildings 9, and 10.
New exterior door for Tarhiel in circular section of building 1.

Rats · Post by **Rats** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:39 pm

seneca37 wrote:what seneca posted above

This proposition has been approved by the Imperial Committee of Really Serious Business
[img]http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y417/rats_tr/imperial_seal_zps305d7333.png[/img]

Great plan! When you're done with the basic template interior we can unleash the castle claims! Huzzah, Old Ebonheart is yet one step closer to being finished!

Jet133 · Post by **Jet133** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:41 pm

Based on that list, I am so ready to explore the heck out of that castle. And the rest of Old Ebonheart in general I guess. There's so much in there that seems so interesting to see.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:22 pm

Excellent plans! I'm excited to see what comes of all this.

Theminimanx · Post by **Theminimanx** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:31 am

I'm not exactly up-to-date with all the plans, but is there a (lore) reason for OE not having a Skyrim and/or Black Marsh mission?

Other than that, it looks great!

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:51 am

Theminimanx wrote:I'm not exactly up-to-date with all the plans, but is there a (lore) reason for OE not having a Skyrim and/or Black Marsh mission?

Both of those missions are already located at "New" Ebonheart, which is literally just across the Inner Sea.

Theminimanx · Post by **Theminimanx** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:01 pm

I know, but it just seems weird to me that the more important missions are both in the less important castle. Ah well, it's an inevitable consequence of Bethesda having to put some sort of Ebonheart in Vanilla.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:12 pm

Given the fact we're now going to try and seamlessly integrate Vvardenfell, we can tell the player those both have more current issues on the island than the mainland, related to colonial claims and slavery issues.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:11 am

Another argument is that they simply got too big to be properly housed in Old Ebonheart Castle, and took advantage of the wealth of space afforded to them by moving to 'New' Ebonheart. The Old Ebonheart missions will probably be pretty cramped.

Post by **Seneca37** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:05 pm

I'd like to include some Project:Cyrodill (P:C) flora in the TR_Data files for usage in the O.E Castle.

However, I agree with Yeti's comments, that we really should try to not use other project's meshes so that they keep their uniqueness for that project.

My thoughts are to include some of the flora, but add a Morrowind twist to them. I would suspect that it would be difficult for Cyrodiil flora to thrive in MW; the soil, water and even air of MW would have detrimental effects on their flora. So much so that they lose all of there alchemic effects. I was thinking that they'd all be statics and not containers. This might even be something that the people in O.E. talk about - how the plants just aren't the same as back home.

I think that this could be handled with either just some texture changes, or texture changes and minor mesh changes.

We have a few conceptual artists looking for work - this may be something that they could work on.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:22 am

TR continues to focus on minor details before adequately setting priorities and realizing the big picture. OE doesnt need concepts or new flora. It requires NPCs, quests and completed castle interiors. Concept are needed for Oreleth and other future releases. Nemon had stated would continue exterior work once concepts and assest are created for new region. Itd be nice to have that done so he can work his magick. Over the next couple years Id like to see real progress made on OE and Androthren, completed work left alone (if it aint broke dun fix it), more quests made and northern exteriors completed.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:20 pm

I actually partly agree with Sasquatch on this. OE doesn't need any additional model work - it has enough already to make it stand out, and our model and concept departments really should be directed at other areas. Of course, I have no problem with including the PC flora as is. It just think we shouldn't put too much attention into such minor details - such as how Morrowind's soil would hypothetically affect imported plants.

Tondollari · Post by **Tondollari** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:29 am

I think that the soil/air affecting the plants is a good idea. Otherwise alchemist players might visit the castle just to wait for the ingredients to respawn. I think that players should be forced to go to Cyrodiil for them.

Also, what if there's a "court mage" or somesuch that keeps notes about the plants' alchemical properties and how he's frustrated that they don't take well to the native air/soil.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:45 am

More interesting if a plant's alchemical properties were changed to a negative, or a junk, effect instead. The alchemist could be confused as to why the plants brought to OE would always lose their positive effects.

klep · Post by **klep** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:52 am

Nomadic1 wrote:More interesting if a plant's alchemical properties were changed to a negative, or a junk, effect instead. The alchemist could be confused as to why the plants brought to OE would always lose their positive effects.

This could be hinted at by the NPC(s) in question while still stripping the actual in game plants of any alchemical properties.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:42 pm

Just to weigh in with a non-committal statement, I don't think it makes a large difference whether we use the P:C flora straight or with minor texture and model changes, assuming we have someone who feels like doing the latter. It's not as though adjusting a texture will stress our workflow, and nor will tweaking a model. If nobody feels like doing it now, someone might always come along who feels up to it later. It's really not a big deal. Neither requires anywhere near the amount of work that creating a new model with new textures would. In this case, I think it's fine to go with whichever we think better represents Old Ebonheart.
As far as the soil is concerned, keep in mind that they could have just imported some soil from Cyrodiil for their planters. However, they wouldn't be able to import the air and climate. I'd actually suggest that the soil being imported could explain how the plants manage to survive at all in Morrowind, but that it does make more sense for them to look somewhat pathetic to illustrate how harsh and unwelcoming Morrowind is supposed to be, as well as any additional OE symbolism we might desire to insert.

As far as alchemical effects are concerned, if we do change the appearance of the plants, I think it makes sense to change their effects as well. Giving them detrimental effects sounds more interesting to me than giving them no effects. If we keep the models healthy-looking, I think all three options would be equally viable. I personally think gameplay is of no concern whatsoever in this instance; if players constantly return to the castle to grab the plants for their effects, the more power to them. That being said, I would consider giving the containers ownership, as I doubt the Imperials would appreciate a citizen making off with the plants they took the trouble to import all the way from Cyrodiil.

The court wizard is Tarhiel, and is in no condition to worry about anything other than going splat. (Or, if the player saves him, he'll just be standing around sulking). It would make sense for the court physician to be bothered if the plants don't have their positive effects, though.

Edit: and in reply to Sasquatch, we actually are moving more in the direction of addressing the big picture, and that means planning out Morrowind as a whole and the major factions rather than CS work on specific regions and cities, though work on the latter will continue.
However, it actually requires quite a bit of set-up to be able to properly address the big picture, and in the meanwhile some of our developers feel like doing CS work and asset work and the like. This is especially the case for places like Old Ebonheart, which is Morrowind's Imperial Tier I settlement, and which many of our members are interested in making to look the part. I see no real advantage in stifling their motivation, and Old Ebonheart is worth the attention to detail.
NPCs, quests and the castle interior shell are all being worked on as well. Andothren is being worked on as well, and while it's proving somewhat of a pain to fix it up you won't have to wait years to see either finished.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:23 pm

How goes work on the castle, Seneca37?

Post by **Seneca37** » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:53 pm

Well its been slow going lately. Most of my free time has been spent on reviewing interiors, dealing with showcases, and I am also working on fixing the TR armor and clothing for the data file. This has taken longer than expected due to having to learn about armatures and vertex weighting.

I plan on making a couple of new pieces for the main building, and have enlisted the help of 10Kaziem for some new textures. Hopefully, I'll have something in the next couple of weeks for everyone to look over.