n5-8-Red

Post by **Seneca37** » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:34 pm

Claim type: OOT
Claim ID: TR_n5-8-Red (#2753)
Faction: Redoran
Claimed by: Seneca37
Status: Design (Progress: 0%)
Files: None

---

This is to start a discussion about warm clothing for the Redorans who live up in the Northern Velothi mountains. This is to continue the discussion from http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24157 (sorry I can't seem to get urls to work here).
The only real warm clothing is from BM. There are woolen items and Nordic items. Clearly, we do not want the Redorans wearing Nordic clothing. Any ideas for a warmer style of clothing.

Post by **Gnomey** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:14 am

I'll start this off with a pretty short comment: I don't think Redoran, or Dunmer in general, should wear much fur. Instead, I think they should just wear more layers.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:30 pm

[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/download.php?id=21857]Here[/url] is a robe that Ashstaar made a while back. It does have fur, however, so I don't know if it would work or not.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:07 pm

What's wrong with having having fur? Too nordic? If people are are trying to survive, I think they would worry about warmth over what their traditional clothing looks like. The dunmer would use enything they can find to stay alive in the frozen wastelands. I don't think they would care too much. Look at the ashlanders. They wear clothing similar to that of the Bloodmoon clothes (I think). The wouldn't have settled in the north if they were going to freeze themselves.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:19 am

http://entertainmentguide.local.com/DM-Resize/photos.demandstudios.com/getty/article/165/152/57639602.jpg?w=600&h=600&keep_ratio=1

Made from horker and wolf pelts (sunglasses sold separately).

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:35 am

I have several concerns about using fur, and mostly left my reasoning out of my last post because I found it hard to formulate, but I'll give it a try:

-visible fur generally comes off as 'barbaric', while I think Dunmer should give a thoroughly 'civilized' impression. Or House Dunmer should, anyway.
-not using fur in Dunmer clothing would create a contrast between the Redoran in Uld Vraech and the outlanders, (though a lot of BM clothes do not use fur either), which I think is something to aim for.
-while Dunmer do use leather heavily, I'd personally prefer if such clothing were always tied to distinctly Morrowind fauna, like insects or guars. We don't have a creature endemic to Morrowind that has fur, I think, (maybe the Velk?), and I'm not sure whether such a creature would be desirable.
-there is a certain [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/page-25]precedent[/url] for Dunmer to dress in layers. In fact, I think a lot of the Dunmer clothing conventions for Ashland environments are well-suited to cold environments: full covering, high boots, loose clothing (traps air), resin goggles, swathes of fabric for turbans and sashes and such.

There's also a throwaway line in Morrowind about how the Dunmer were civilized while humans were still running around in animal pelts or something, but there's not much point in putting a lot of stock behind that line.

Edit: In fact, here's a paragraph from the [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-morrowind]1st PGE[/url]; replace every instance of 'ash' with 'snow' or, in the case of the goggles, 'snow blindness', and I think you'll have a good description of Redoran Uld Vraech clothing.

A Pocket Guide to The Empire and its environs, First Edition wrote:Dark Elven warriors favor a wonderfully light armor made from the carapace of insects, covered over with a finely-woven cloak of spider silk, wrapped several times around the torso. A turban protects the head and face from the ubiquitous ash, with goggles of transparent resin; loose trousers and high boots completes the dress. While this makes for an outlandish appearance, the traveler will understand the utility of these garments the first time he is caught out of doors in one of the frequent ash storms without such protection. When indoors, Dark Elves shed these outer coverings, and luxuriate in a variety of richly-colored fabrics; sashes decorated with clan symbols are common, while cumbersome ceremonial costumes made from various parts of giant insects are the glory of those of the highest rank.

Edit2: I forgot to add that, all of that aside, I'm not completely ruling out the use of fur; if someone comes up with a good design that uses fur and fits the Dunmer aesthetic I won't take issue with it. I just personally think we should go in a different direction.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:13 pm

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pcbwz5exbvbyd ... 3.png?dl=0

Post by **Gnomey** » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:20 am

The main points I mentioned on IRC, with some added fluff:

As far as tinting the bonemold is concerned, both for obvious colour-coding reasons and so that people wearing the armour won't look out of place next to the standard Redoran buildings we're using in Uld Vraech, it would probably be best to stick to the Redoran colours, as described in [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/gallery_files/mw_TAoM_p15.jpg]this concept[/url] but better shown in the image below. (Salmon pink, due to its dubious nature as camouflage, only represented reluctantly by a corner of overhang).
The paler colour could pass as snow camouflage, or at least wouldn't stand out as much as standard bonemold, while the brown colour might better match the wooded areas. I'd personally go for the former, or, naturally, a mixture.

As far as my points earlier in this thread are concerned, I would certainly not take them as gospel, but would still keep them in mind; I'm still concerned about Dunmer dress looking distinct from Nordic dress, and still think Dunmer shouldn't look too rough and barbaric for the most part, but sticking too closely to formula can also have its downsides.
Two things I would consider, though:
Dunmer tend to like [url=http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/square_small/0/4881/900652-redoran.jpg]ornamentation[/url]. (Not the best examples, but they'll do in a pinch). I think the Redoran in particular, as proud and fairly free-minded warriors, would want to show their status and wealth. (Wealth is perhaps not the best term to use; they may carry trinkets from ancestors, rewards for service, perhaps bits of ebony or other precious materials they have come upon; almost more as credentials than simple showing-off. They are not sycophants, but proud warriors who deserve the respect and standing due to them).
While not consistently shown, and when shown more common [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/page-31]among[/url] [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/pge01_morrowind_pic_02.jpg]Telvanni[/url], one interesting idea that might be worth exploring for Dunmer furs -- though probably not for your practical-looking armour -- would be the idea that, as opposed to outlanders who tend to use animal skins much as they use any other clothing material, the Dunmer tend to preserve the form and structure of the animals they use as clothing, as a result appearing more alien themselves. Along with trying to go for a more civilized look, this might lead in interesting directions.

Finally, my point about dressing in layers doesn't apply well to your armour, which appears more maneuverable. I'd say it wouldn't work for armour in general, but Morrowind's artwork insists otherwise.