New Name Dedefecation

Post by **Gnomey** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:14 pm

Links to my post aren't working because the post is in Internal Discussion which is still not visible to non-devs.

As far as Sundered Coast/Sundered Scar is concerned, I like both. One concern I have with 'coast' is oversaturation; we already have Azura's Coast, Bittercoast and Ascadian Coast, and maybe I'm forgetting another. My concern with 'scar' is how appropriate it will be for the region.

Dun Akafell = Dark (in Dunmeri) Dragon/Time- (in Aldmeri?) city (in Dwemeri).
'Aka' appears in Akatosh (both 'Aka' and 'Tosh' mean 'dragon' as well as 'time', I think, those concepts being inextricably linked in TES), Akavir (Dragonland) and probably other places. 'Fell' appears in Vvardenfell (Shieldcity/City of the Shield, I think), Volenfell (Hammercity/City of the Hammer; Dwemer city in Hammerfell which gave the province its original as well as derivative current name) and possibly Dagon Fel (Dagon City).
Basically it is not only a building block name, but one that mixes languages rather strangely, much like Bosmora.
The same issue applies to Akamora, our rough building-block translation of the original Dragon Glade, 'mora' naturally meaning 'forest'/'wood'.

As far as Ayemar is concerned, I prefer to use Ammar for the reasons mentioned above, but not by much. I'm not sure if we want two words for every castle-estate to be a trend, but am not against it either. Basically, I'm very non-committal. Consequently, I approve of the compromise Dar Ammar.

I strongly suggest ignoring everything besides the Hlaalu and Indoril stuff on Swiftoak's map for the time being. It does not represent our official plan; certainly not our current one. As the various changes portrayed in the map become relevant, they will be discussed, and then we can figure out what we want to use and what we want to leave on the wayside. There's no hurry.

As far as Mournhold/Almalexia is concerned, the city overall should be named Almalexia. I think the issue of the city sharing the name with the goddess Almalexia is a non-issue. The same problem exists for Vivec and Sotha Sil (though the latter doesn't really come up), and it's sort of the point. Almalexia is also a Dunmer(ish) name while Mournhold is not. As the capital of Morrowind and House Indoril in particular, I think that's important.
I frankly don't remember if we reached a consensus on what Mournhold refers to, as one might have noticed from how I wrote the summary, but in hindsight I don't think it's terribly important, as long as we can agree whether it's an alternate name for the city as a whole, for a district, or is the name of Helseth's castle.

Edit: according to Swiftoak, the castle-estates having two-word names was not intended to be a trend, and he doesn't care which version we go with.

Theminimanx · Post by **Theminimanx** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:23 pm

You're right that Vivec had the same problem in Vanilla, and that Bethesda was usually able to work around this. But in Tribunal, Almalexia and Mournhold are very distinct. The same goes for Sotha Sil and the Clockwork City. I think Vivec has enough cases where it makes the dialogue inelegant for it to be worth mentioning. Examples in the spoiler box to save space. (Also, could someone please make quotes less ginormous? I'm always afraid to use them for fear of them dominating my post.)

[spoiler]
"Welcome to Vivec, %PCName. I'm sure you have some questions. What would you like to know?"

Vivec
"At once brave and honorable, and cunning and devious, Lord Vivec is a rare combination of the virtues of flamboyant adventurer and prudent statesman."

Or:

Vivec
"...But most of all, this is Lord Vivec's holy city..."
[/spoiler]

As for Mournhold not being Dunmerish, that's not something I can really agree with. Leaving aside the numerous times it's called Mournhold by Dunmer, including Almalexia herself, it's also referred to as the Mourning Hold in the 36 Lessons. That's about as Dunmerish as you can get.

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:29 pm

Yeah it is explicitly referred to as The Mourning Hold, but I think that just means the section that includes the temple. The city itself is Amalexia proper, with Mournhold being the district that houses Helseth and the Temple.

Wolfrad · Post by **Wolfrad** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:50 pm

Gnomey wrote:As far as Sundered Coast/Sundered Scar is concerned, I like both. One concern I have with 'coast' is oversaturation; we already have Azura's Coast, Bittercoast and Ascadian Coast, and maybe I'm forgetting another. My concern with 'scar' is how appropriate it will be for the region.

I have to say I feel like the overuse of coast isn't too much of an issue. If they were all called Azura's coast or another variant it'd probably hit the player in a bad way, but simply calling a coast a coast most likely would never occur to anyone. It'd be intuitive. Scar carries more defined connotations than a general descriptive term like coast when applying it to landscapes. It might actually cause substantially more pause in people if slightly inappropriate, as you said.

ihavefivehat · Post by **ihavefivehat** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:00 am

If the word 'coast' is overused, then what about Sundered Shore? I think it has kind of a nice ring to it.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:57 am

Sundered Shores could perhaps work well with the area. However, I honestly never thought of the Inlet Bog as a full-on coastal region, as it creeps pretty far back into the mainland.

As for Mournhold, I don't think the name should just be used for Helseth's castle - but perhaps for the whole upper quarters of Almalexia, shown on [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24581&start=0]Sload's big proposal map.[/url] The name, 'Mournhold,' is, as others have pointed out, important to Morrowind lore. It is also used in various dialogue. (Right now I'm thinking of when the High Ordinators say, "Mournhold: City of Light, City of Magic.")

st.Veloth, The Repenting · Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:10 pm

inspiration of the highest order: nausicaa valley of the wind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j53xyVamZLs
don't pay attention to the words, just the images.

https://animescenes.files.wordpress.com ... -35930.jpg

https://animescenes.files.wordpress.com ... -35785.jpg

https://steampunkfilm.files.wordpress.c ... gtown1.jpg

other images, inspiration for cliffside cities.
sorry if that was off topic, couldn't hold it in any longer

now as for names, go to Arabic/Japanese/Hindu fusion. it always works!

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:36 pm

In the future, please only post in a thread if you intend to stay on topic, st.Veloth. Make a separate thread for unrelated suggestions.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:42 pm

Since Mournhold is the capital, I don't see why the name wouldn't be completely Dunmer sounding because I would think it has some Imperial influence.

Marandahir · Post by **Marandahir** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:22 pm

Mournhold does sound like the Imperial name for the city, rather than the Dunmeri version.

Would it be too far out of line to swap the names? Make Almalexia the upper citadel (High Fane of the Mother, Godsreach, Kingsreach, Moon & Star, etc) as per Sload's design, and Mournhold the lower city (and the name for the city at large)?

Then Dunmer tend to call the city Almalexia, and Imperials (and those referring to it) tend to call it Mournhold. And the Palace of Helseth would be understood in the second category, despite being in the High City, because Helseth is only King due to Imperial overreach.

Just raising a possible alternative take on it.