Official Statement of Vision [Please Read]

Dreadnautilus · Post by **Dreadnautilus** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:55 am

I always thought the Quarantine was a stupid hand-wave for the purposes of Tribunal. Really, several things in the Vanilla game imply travel to the Mainland was a casual thing. There was that one quest in Seyda Neen where you could pay for a guy to return to the mainland, you could tell the tax-collector in Vivec that the tax-evading Khajiit took a gondola to the mainland, and IIRC there was one Mage's Guild quest where you could either kill someone accused of Necromancy or let her leave for the mainland. Not to mention if Vvardenfell was quarantined, why do they let you take a boat to Solstheim?

Dragon32 · Post by **Dragon32** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 7:25 pm

Ghills wrote:<snip>
The PC worked up through the ranks in a quarantined area, obviously there's no transmission of data from the island.
<snip>

I've been hanging around here for a little while and the quarantine has been mentioned before. In Bethesda's content the word is apparently [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=295637#295637]not even mentioned[/url].

There are Bethesda NPCs who either go to the mainland themselves or talk about their connections with it: [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=314846#314846]post 1[/url] and [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=295653#295653]post 2[/url].

If there actually is a quarantine then it's barely / ineffectively enforced and pretty rubbish.

Telvayn · Post by **Telvayn** » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:48 pm

Dragon32 wrote:There are Bethesda NPCs who either go to the mainland themselves or talk about their connections with it: [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=314846#314846]post 1[/url] and [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=295653#295653]post 2[/url].

One thing to note is that "mainland" doesn't always mean the continental part of Morrowind when dialogue is concerned (below just a few of many examples):

The Ashlander Ahemmusa tribe has a permanent settlement at Ahemmusa camp on a rocky promontory at the northeastern tip of the Vvardenfell mainland in the Azura's Coast region.

The Bitter Coast is named for the salt marshes and swamps along the southwest coast. The water is bitter, and so is life, generally. It's mostly uninhabited wilderness from Seyda Neen in the south all the way north to the West Gash and the Sea of Ghosts. Hla Oad is a fishing settlement on the mainland near the mouth of the Odai River; there's a fair track along the river inland to Balmora. Gnaar Mok is a fishing village on an island farther north, but both places are small, isolated, and poor.

Ashalmimilkala is a large Daedric ruin on a large off-shore island south of Gnaar Mok, west of the Dunmer stronghold called Hlormaren in the Bitter Coast region. A thin strand of land connects the southern part of the island with the mainland on the coast southwest of the stronghold.

Bring me five units of willow anther for cure paralyzation potions. I am ashamed to admit it, but I steal willow anther from the flowers growing around the house of Gurak gro-Bagrat. His house is on the mainland, just north of the Foreign Quarter. A cleric stealing from criminals to aid the needy... perhaps I have been hanging around Zenithar-worshippers too long.

Our client is Novor Drethan, the owner of the mine. Meet him inside the Dissapla Mine, northeast of the Dunmer stronghold Falensarano, which is on the mainland west of Tel Aruhn. Do whatever Novor says needs doing. He said something about Nix Hounds getting loose and attacking the miners.

LordInsane · Post by **LordInsane** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:00 am

Dragon32 wrote:If there actually is a quarantine then it's barely / ineffectively enforced and pretty rubbish.

Tribunal does have this dialogue:

Asciene Rane wrote:You wish to go to the mainland? That's highly irregular. I'm sure you've heard that they've restricted travel to Mournhold. They've been a bit worried about the Blight. What's your reason for wanting to go to the city?

Of course, travel restrictions are not the same thing as a quarantine, especially since the restrictions are only mentioned to apply to travel to Mournhold and having a decent reason is apparently enough to get you teleported directly into the city's governmental area.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:05 pm

As much as we appreciate those who raise concerns about our new direction (feedback of any kind is always welcome), we feel it is not prudent to make project-spanning decisions based on one throwaway line of dialogue. Doing so would not leave enough room for our creative interpretations. To refer back to what Swiftoak wrote:

The quarantine, similarly, is a small line of dialogue in order to justify the player's inability to leave the island, not some integral narrative element that makes the game what it is

6plus · Post by **6plus** » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:41 pm

LordInsane wrote:Tribunal does have this dialogue:
Asciene Rane wrote:You wish to go to the mainland? That's highly irregular. I'm sure you've heard that they've restricted travel to Mournhold. They've been a bit worried about the Blight. What's your reason for wanting to go to the city?

And yet, even if the player has a blight disease or the corprus disease she'll teleport him/her to the mainland...

Ateiggaer · Post by **Ateiggaer** » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:10 pm

Hi, just wanted to say, that I fully support the very exciting desicion, the TR-Team has made and I applaud them, for this very bold and logical move. From what I've seen so far, I have no concerns about the changes/modifications they will make to the vanilla content.

With kind regards,

Ateiggaer

st.Veloth, The Repenting · Sat May 09, 2015 8:35 pm

so, will there be ashlands on the mainland, (a more lore friendly approach) or will we diverge.

klep · Post by **klep** » Sun May 10, 2015 5:25 am

Check out Theminimanx' [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=326571#326571]regions map[/url]. There are two, look at the second. You will see the Armun Ashlands and the Grey Meadows, which actually are ash-swamps.

st.Veloth, The Repenting · Tue May 12, 2015 12:06 am

like, heartland morrowind, not just redoran territory.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Tue May 12, 2015 12:39 am

The Armun Ashlands are considered 'Heartland.'

klep · Post by **klep** » Tue May 12, 2015 7:16 am

And Hlaalu territory.

That being said, I don't think any of the unfinished southern regions will contain (much) ashland type climate. However, I have no clear idea what Telvannis will look like in the future, and I doubt anyone does at this extremely early stage.

EJRS · Post by **EJRS** » Tue May 12, 2015 9:48 am

I agree with St. Veloth that the mainland needs more ashland, or at least wasteland-types of landscapes of the harsher variety. Much is made of how harsh and hostile Morrowind is - land and people - in the lore, and almost every single Dunmer armor in the game is designed to withstand ashstorms and/or sandstorms, along with a number of other features of Dunmer culture tailored especially for this type of landscape, yet in the current state of things, this function is only relevant to the outback of Vvardenfel, which comes across to me as majorly inconsistent.

Mairon · Post by **Mairon** » Tue May 12, 2015 11:35 am

Hi,
I'm just a curious fan of the project (maybe this summer I will have time to contribute, as I wanted in the past).
I find that TR has already enough ashlands (the Armun Ashland are nicely done) and has produced great ash-swamps ; for the rest, there is already Vvardenfell.
As a fan of the project, I'm interested in the very good ideas that the team produces about Dres territory and the other parts that are still to be made. I'm happy about the decisions to go a bit beyond the initial scope of the project and, one day, to modify Vvardenfell to some extent.
I'm excited about what it means for Mournhold/Almalexia. Indeed, following Tribunal as it was produced sad limitations given the creativity of the team.

st.Veloth, The Repenting · Tue May 12, 2015 12:11 pm

that being said, if you've seen the maps, hlaalu has waaaay too much territory, more than house indoril!

klep · Post by **klep** » Tue May 12, 2015 1:02 pm

From my personal viewpoint as player, I find ashlands boring. I wouldn't include more boring stuff for the sake of lore, but that's just an unprofessional opinion. I think these harshness and hostility are mostly from non-dunmer (Imperial) point of view, which means that it can be demonstrated in many other ways than ashlands.

@ St. Veloth, have a look at the House Indoril planning file which can be found [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=327874#327874]here[/url]. Some of the reasons why Indoril is falling and losing territory can be found in there. A similar document for Hlaalu is in the make.

Post by **Gnomey** » Thu May 14, 2015 7:02 pm

We will likely add ashlands of some description to Telvannis. There will probably be no ashlands in Indoril or Dres lands. We will probably not add more ashlands to Redoran or Hlaalu lands. I do think we need more badlands; most of eastern as well as western Morrowind should probably be some form of badlands or ashlands. Very little of this is set in stone; at the moment, we decide how regions look when we get to them, more or less.
Not having any ashlands on the mainland at all would be lore-friendly. Having some ashlands on the mainland would be lore-friendly. Having practically all of Morrowind be ashy to some degree would also be lore-friendly. What (extremely) limited information there is on mainland Morrowind's terrain is conflicting or vague. You have linked the [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/pocket-guide-empire-first-edition-morrowind]1st PGE[/url] which was written from an end-of-2nd-Era Imperial perspective for the game Redguard and implies regular ashfall -- though not explicitly ashlands -- across Morrowind. I have linked a [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/node-gallery-display/gallery_files/concept_morrowind.jpg]concept map[/url] Bethesda created of end-of-3rd-Era Morrowind early in the planning process of Morrowind which shows no ashlands anywhere on the mainland. I would argue that my source has more weight, and that they are not necessarily incompatible anyway, but that's all relative and both our interpretations are valid.

EJRS · Post by **EJRS** » Thu May 14, 2015 7:34 pm

klep wrote:From my personal viewpoint as player, I find ashlands boring.

I don't think anyone would advocate turning any portions of the mainland into duplicates of Molag Amur. On the other hand, I don't really think anyone would advocate turning anything into the West Gash, Bitter Coast, Ascadian Isles etc. either. The landscapes of vanilla TES3 dealt with numerous limitations that don't really apply any longer, thus more detailed and imaginative environments can and have been built for projects such as TR.

When I call for more ashlands, what I'm pointing at is landscapes that bear witness of volcanic activity. Wether this be mountains, plains, swamps or whatever is really secondary. What I'm saying is that harshness is something that I feel I have been lead to expect by almost everything of TES3. Even the map Gnomey refers to list rather vague discriptions of the landscape, such as "badlands" and "highlands". Looking at other sources, such as the MK concept art (note: this concept art mainly stems from an early stage of development when TES3 was still meant to include all of Morrowind, so the argument that it is supposed to depict only Vvardenfel isn't really valid) leads me to beleive that regardless of landscape type, everything except some of the Dres lands and the Thirr-valley(ancient egypt being cited as a source of inspiration, I'd wager that the Nile valley was an inspiration here) was meant to be harsh, volcanic and alien to some extent.

Edit: spelling corrections. That's me posting dead drunk and in a hurry.

Post by **Gnomey** » Thu May 14, 2015 9:07 pm

As far as MK's concept art is concerned, it's hard to draw any conclusions about Morrowind as a whole from those, as we generally don't know which drawings represent Vvardenfell and which the mainland. As Vvardenfell and Red Mountain are iconic of Morrowind and central to Morrowind's storyline, and the decision to only create the province of Vvardenfell was made very early on, (keep in mind that that map was from 1996; Morrowind was released in 2002), it would hardly be surprising if most of the game's concept art represents Vvardenfell.

That being said, that's just me quibbling again. I do agree with your post by and large. We can show the presence of ash without having outright ashlands. Not necessarily with weather as in the 1st PGE; Vvardenfell's coastal regions set the precedent of no ash storms or ash fall (which would need to be a new weather effect anyway) outside of ashlands, so if we want that to be a thing we should probably change the weather of Vvardenfell regions first. However, I'd point to Azura's Coast as a region that is very ashy without being ashlands. I'd certainly like to see a lot more regions in that vein.

st.Veloth, The Repenting · Thu May 14, 2015 10:14 pm

@gnowmy could you define badlands? also, just because the other houses are in decline doesn't mean that house hlaalu would have at least a third more territory than house redoran...

EJRS · Post by **EJRS** » Fri May 15, 2015 7:39 am

Gnomey wrote:As far as MK's concept art is concerned, it's hard to draw any conclusions about Morrowind as a whole from those, as we generally don't know which drawings represent Vvardenfell and which the mainland.

This is true. As a small addition to this: one drawing that does specificly state "mainland" is the one with the Telvanni Dust Adepts, one pictured wearing "ash-shoes" as well as the iconic helm, which is certainly designed for use in ashy environments.

Post by **Gnomey** » Fri May 15, 2015 11:24 am

Yeah, Telvanni Dust Adepts are a big reason I think there should be ashlands in Telvannis. Though I'm still not sure whether the Dust Adept outfit (or helm anyway) should be specifically designed for ashlands or if the Telvanni might have another kind of dust to contend with as well.

As for how I'd define 'badlands', it's an intentionally broad term. Basically, I think there should be some level of vegetation, both ground textures (scrub/grass/something else often mixed with dirt/gravel/rock/ash) and flora, but the vegetation would often be patchy, and the overall climate generally arid.

st.Veloth, The Repenting · Fri May 15, 2015 8:13 pm

keeping a desolate, dry but interesting environment is key. most of morrowind's marshes are located in the south and central north

Rats · Post by **Rats** » Sat May 16, 2015 12:09 pm

Relocated the Dust Adept discussion [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24953]here.[/url]

Vicano · Post by **Vicano** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:02 pm

I'd be interested to see TR's take on Fort Firemoth, if they ever get round to/see fit to change it.

I was pretty disappointed with how Bethesda did it. They advertised it as retaking the fort, but no. You're just going in for a shield, then going back to Seyda Neen to be underpaid for it. And of course, the AI of your merry band of followers was predictably awful.

Biboran · Post by **Biboran** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 2:14 pm

At the moment, the TR team does not want to touch official plugins.
But personally, I think that the fort and the island can be a good reward for completing quests of Imperial Legion, like
estates in the end of great houses quests or Raven Rock in Bloodmoon.

Theminimanx · Post by **Theminimanx** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:17 am

Un-announced this to match the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=329401#329401]list of stickies[/url].
It's been a year since the statement of vision was published, I think everyone has read it by now. It's still linked from [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25013]About TR[/url] anyway.