Then again, these are the Telvanni were talking about. Could be that the Dust Adepts are planewalkers.Gnomey wrote:Yeah, Telvanni Dust Adepts are a big reason I think there should be ashlands in Telvannis.
On (Telvanni) Dust Adepts [Split from the Vision thread]
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On (Telvanni) Dust Adepts [Split from the Vision thread]
Topic split from the Official Statement of Vision thread.
Last edited by Rats on Sat May 16, 2015 12:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ironed Maidens
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This is a reiteration of a post I made last year, and I think it still rings true to an overall vision of more 'ashy' parts of the Mainland.
The Indoril Swamp-Seers, Or As They Would Be Called, The Ash Adepts
Let me describe a vision I have to you: A place taken over by ash with consistently cloudy weather. A place of no haven, even within the modest shacks that outline the border region. But as you delve deeper into the heart of the region, you begin to see something..strange. Or; perhaps something intriguing. There seems to be a type of culture in the ashlands here, in the middle of the pools of muck, and the gray flora, and the ash-webbed abodes. The Ash Adepts. A small outcast clan, or perhaps multiple clans, who are strangely akin to the nomadic Ashlanders on Vvardenfell. But also different in a sense that they are not so nomadic, and do not live within yurts, and herd insects, and follow Old Ways. They live within hollowed out apocryphal type mushrooms, or muck sponge type plants that are very large, gray, ashy, and yet...welcoming to the lost outlander. Safe from the wild beasts that roam the badlands foraging for meals in daylight, and the unspeakable horrors that lurk beneath the swamp shallows or in the old tombs or perhaps lie in wait under the large web-ridden mushroom patches.
These peoples, though mysterious, have a similar hierarchy to the Ashlanders. Commoners who believe in a systematic lifestyle of The Hunt, and the religious leaders above them who dwell in the most ornate of the mushroom houses. These leaders, hermetic in nature, are ones who follow the decrepit followings of Lord Nerevar and his Father of Fathers, Vhek, in a way that is new and engaging to the player. They believe that these ashy badlands they live within are critical to the Path of Six, the Tendons of Eight, the Spokes of Spikes, the Whirling School, and even a new a well-hidden art of Sex and Death called the Swamp-Face of Vivec. Much like Sweepers in the Halls, these people are dedicated to living a life of cleansing the now-soiled land that Morrowind has become, by way of Dust Adept disciplines and virtuous habits. Now, would new assets need to be created for this to be feasible? Yes. But it would be well worth it in the end, as it would be the mainland equivalent of the Ashlands and Ashlanders, with the ability to tie in any numerous types of quests and lore and new creatures and ingredients and books and...well, that possibility is anywhere and everywhere as it is, but this is just my own ramblings, as I stated. They would be a hearty and rugged type of people as well, given the circumstances of where they live, and it would ooze from their way of life that they believe they were chosen to live amongst the swamps as a type of test, or reward.
Ideas of Culture
“And to what do we owe this honor, Nerevarine?â€Â
There is a sense of strange honor among these people, but only if the player has taken the title of Nerevarine and been Proclaimed so by Vivec. Other than that, you can imagine them to be just as polite as any Ashlanders, but with the added effect of being able to do standard/minimal bartering or finding a place to sleep for the night. Types of décor would involve various flora and fauna, generous use of colored candles, and banners/books/symbols of faith. While not neanderthals inherently, they still do use religion as a way of life, as do most other cultures. But since they are more isolated, the religion tends to be a bit wackier/more fanatical while still seeming understandably so. Pots, cups, plates, cutlery, pillows, beds, chairs, rugs, tapestries, fabrics, etc etc all would be nearly primitive but also fitting to the surroundings.
Fauna would consist of very strange and hostile creatures. Perhaps a subject best touched by someone else who can accurately depict the type of things that would live in such a wild place.
Flora, like I stated, would be gray for the most part, with different types of mushrooms and flowers that grow and look almost like predatory creatures. Grasslands themselves would be ashy and mucky, almost frail looking. Generally gloomy atmosphere. Dark colors that seem to warn the player away.
The outer edges of the region would be smaller normal shack villages with some containing an Indoril manor, a type of Dres hold, or a larger type of house to regulate trade and oversee religious things like days of prayer or festivals.
I also think it would be worth mentioning that I have taken the liberty to write my own slice of text as a teaser to show what kind of place and culture I have in mind.
The Swamp-Face of Vhek
Though settled peoples would still think us to be simple, or even dull, we are happy to abide by the lords of trade-reasoning, if only to show persistence in the teachings of the Noble of The House of Coda; Savior Nerevar. A lesson that resonates with our clan is one of such fortitude and suspecting lattice within the minds of greedy men and expanding empires. Scouts of Telvanni have come to us before, for use of our most prized warriors' carcasses for their mythopoeic bindings and pesudo-tonal architectures, which always seem to deteriorate from the bottom up when the stanzas fall ill to too little faith. They spoke of many men clad in golden dragon scales tilling the lands near us, and they would laugh as they threw gold pieces at us in exchange for life-forces of our guardians.
What they did with them, I have been told. I fear not for the souls of our kin, but for the minds of the Telvanni themselves. They do not know in which pools of myth they tread. On many occasions we could invade the smaller settlements near us and engulf and consume and exhume much like the rest who surround us, but instead we show the Swamp-Face in holding our ground. In being One with the Swamps, the bogs, the mud and the rains that swallow the various bug nests and float them down-river. This excerpt comes from the mouths of Adepts before me, and it was given to them in beryllium-lined parchments by Adepts before them, and some may claim that these teachings were given originally to our Fathers by the hand of Nerevar himself, while writing in the fountains of Her palace:
The veins of murky water, the capillaries of soot, the arteries of ash, they all flow in and out of the Swamps. The plateaus of Shokali rise above the clouds and wisps of ash, and from upon the crags lurch the Skylamps and sky warriors. A single blade of brown grass sprouts from a crack in the surface of a large slab of clay. Lord Indoral sat, his eyes fixated upon the grass, when a sigh was let out from the sky. Without turning around he spoke, “Should you not be Bending?â€Â
“I am, and within the asymmetrical lines upon lines I have seen an anomaly.†A voice boomed.
“I seek no counsel at this time. I am simply surveying. How could one build upon this?†Nerevar said as he picked the single blade from its rooted spot with two fingers.
“Much like the anomaly I am pursuing, we both have the same answer.†A single ray of light began to emerge from behind the gray veil of clouds that hung in the sky with such splendor.
“And your question, then?†Lord Nerevar piqued, now looking behind him.
“Another day. Perhaps when you seek counsel. I have come here to try and let you know of a different path I have seen for you though, just as a warning, or a waning. The Mourning House looks into this land for more than just muck. Perhaps there is a dwelling built here already. Perhaps the swamp hides it. I need of you to look and see. If we can find, then it can be shown that what was once lost is now in possession.†Vivec was cloaked in an atlas of smoke and celestial ice; Nerevar looked upon it with eyes agape.
“I cannot look further for I have looked, and searched, and seared, and scorched, and scoured. All there is here is legions from within the Mire and corners of the House. Can you not sense champions of the Scourge? Surely you can.†Nerevar stood up and inched to the ledge of the plateau, gazing out now.
“I have been able to sense many sources of solitude, sentimental sighs, and solace in your own sombre art for a time now. Sensing is something one does from birth. But this place is different from others. This is where a legacy is lost and a fate is found.†Vivec took a hand full of the clay that puddled around in one hand and reached into his disguise with the other, emerging it with a type of shimmering orb, and married the two beneath his waist.
“Difference is a matter of opinion.†Nerevar said as the sun began setting on the swamps, a sort of mellow hue taking over the horizon. Steam from the various molten pits and coves of muck turned a sulfuric shade and whooshed freely into the air, dissipating after getting a few yards away from the bubbling, slimy canvas from which they emerged.
“Opinions are a different matter all together,†Vivec hummed as he extended his arms forward, holding the mixture, finally in matrimony. His eyes seemed almost bequeathed; alms of his Mastery ebbed through the swamplands in harmony with the ash and the Twilight. Nerevar looked upon the relic; a mask had taken form. No symphonies, no pantheons of sacred messengers to bring it forth, no ruckus made of its presence; simply a gift from mentor to pupil. Seven Shadowed Hands seemed to reach forth from Vivec's own, presenting the item to the General.
“With this, you may see the Truth of what is secluding from the light, from the darkness, from the prevalence of Her Mercy, His Insight, and my own Perineum. Many things lie in wait for us, some for the forgotten in time. Some...for the exhaled priests, some for the laymen and the commoners. But some things...they lie in wait for the Righteous. Which path would you chose to have burned beyond you, Nerevar?†Vivec's words pushed forth as night descended upon them both, the clicking of swamp warriors rising from beyond the gorges that surrounded the plateau.
“I thank you for the shift; the transformation,†Nerevar said as he knelt before Vivec, “I wish for you to adorn it with the vestiges of Veloth, anon VELS. Bite into the mire of this pestilence and cleanse the crops of these twisted, defiled demons which inhabit this land. Through Your Eyes I shall find the Tower of this land; sinking and decaying. And with your Love I will make sure it inherits the traits of your secrecy.â€Â
Vivec placed the mask upon Nerevar, and then disbursed into the Arubis once again to leave his protege in meditation for six days, still as stone, upon the flat top of the plateau. After the holy hibernation, he let out a breath that carried plumes of sky warriors out to the winds, and the ground began to heave in such a way that many tension cracks began to form around all manners of the swamps. It is said that to this day the cracks remain visible, tracing a pattern of such insight and tenure of knowledge through the land. Nerevar opened his eyes and smiled as he took off to the west, his feet precariously touching the soil and soot and slime and sands strewn through the landscape. He was clad in nothing but a robe made of the roots, gnarled and vine-laced as they were, which grew from the base of the mucosal pods that dotted the shores of mud, and it began to grow from it beautiful flowers that seeped with ash and poisonous waters. The mask made the bogs swell and run rapidly, overtaking the land, and it also gave Nerevar visions of what was hidden deep within the region; sealed away from time and mer.
He reached his destination, the central bog, and it trembled at the presence of the mask and the warlord. “I see now.†He smiled, and he dipped a finger into the ash that caked the surface. He brought it to his forehead and upon it he drew a circle with a dot in the center, conscripting the mask, proclaiming, “This is truly a remarkable land. A beautiful land. A ravenous junction, consuming all Glory from PADHOME and convalescing it as it is wounded for now from the Red Dragon, and from the drums of epochs eaten before. I wonder, what remnants of our previous kalpas float through Aether now, like ash of woe floats amongst your many bodies.â€Â
The visage of several of Our ancestors appeared before Nerevar. The first of our brethren spoke in a just voice, appealing to all the virtues we confide in; accepting of obedience from marital ties unbroken from ages and eras before. He bid for our Nerevar to build a tower in resemblance to Adamantine Tower, but less grand and more accustomed to housing a clan of mer who were star-sworn from birth to appease the land, to cultivate it in ways that none else knew how, and to allow the Swamp-Seers to patrol the wastes that were once barren and uninhabitable and allow us all to gather and reconcile within the many teachings of Nerevar.
What remains of the mask that began the embarkation of our peoples is within that same tower, in the highest chamber so that it may always look out upon the blessed lands we dwell in, and so it may always protect us and our many Sal-Edtta warriors, and so it may beckon forth our brothers from Houses Mora, Ra'Athim, Retheran, Sul, Oroynyon, and Drenim, so they can bask in the harmonizing swamps much like we do, and keep our land safe from the mercenaries of this realm and others beyond us.
We show the Swamp-Face in our acceptance of knowing that we do not know everything, yet we have the veracity to accept our humility and evolve from it.
Final Thoughts
What I am purposing is a re-imagining of at least parts of Mainland Morrowind. This would require a moderate redo of the current areas, and new meshes, and perhaps even new plans with what to include in the area in regards to civilizations and quests, but do bear in mind that this is also an invitation to perhaps a merging of some of the ideas that would be able to stem from this type of redo of the area. Imagine a large gash on the face of Morrowind, which then feeds into he jungles of Argonia, and would have profound effect on the Dres house as well, in regards to the type of climates they'd be suited to and it would also allow for a lot more creative exploration of not only the player, but of us ourselves as a team of people who have already sacrificed so much, and made so much progress in such a wild world like Tamriel.
The Indoril Swamp-Seers, Or As They Would Be Called, The Ash Adepts
Let me describe a vision I have to you: A place taken over by ash with consistently cloudy weather. A place of no haven, even within the modest shacks that outline the border region. But as you delve deeper into the heart of the region, you begin to see something..strange. Or; perhaps something intriguing. There seems to be a type of culture in the ashlands here, in the middle of the pools of muck, and the gray flora, and the ash-webbed abodes. The Ash Adepts. A small outcast clan, or perhaps multiple clans, who are strangely akin to the nomadic Ashlanders on Vvardenfell. But also different in a sense that they are not so nomadic, and do not live within yurts, and herd insects, and follow Old Ways. They live within hollowed out apocryphal type mushrooms, or muck sponge type plants that are very large, gray, ashy, and yet...welcoming to the lost outlander. Safe from the wild beasts that roam the badlands foraging for meals in daylight, and the unspeakable horrors that lurk beneath the swamp shallows or in the old tombs or perhaps lie in wait under the large web-ridden mushroom patches.
These peoples, though mysterious, have a similar hierarchy to the Ashlanders. Commoners who believe in a systematic lifestyle of The Hunt, and the religious leaders above them who dwell in the most ornate of the mushroom houses. These leaders, hermetic in nature, are ones who follow the decrepit followings of Lord Nerevar and his Father of Fathers, Vhek, in a way that is new and engaging to the player. They believe that these ashy badlands they live within are critical to the Path of Six, the Tendons of Eight, the Spokes of Spikes, the Whirling School, and even a new a well-hidden art of Sex and Death called the Swamp-Face of Vivec. Much like Sweepers in the Halls, these people are dedicated to living a life of cleansing the now-soiled land that Morrowind has become, by way of Dust Adept disciplines and virtuous habits. Now, would new assets need to be created for this to be feasible? Yes. But it would be well worth it in the end, as it would be the mainland equivalent of the Ashlands and Ashlanders, with the ability to tie in any numerous types of quests and lore and new creatures and ingredients and books and...well, that possibility is anywhere and everywhere as it is, but this is just my own ramblings, as I stated. They would be a hearty and rugged type of people as well, given the circumstances of where they live, and it would ooze from their way of life that they believe they were chosen to live amongst the swamps as a type of test, or reward.
Ideas of Culture
“And to what do we owe this honor, Nerevarine?â€Â
There is a sense of strange honor among these people, but only if the player has taken the title of Nerevarine and been Proclaimed so by Vivec. Other than that, you can imagine them to be just as polite as any Ashlanders, but with the added effect of being able to do standard/minimal bartering or finding a place to sleep for the night. Types of décor would involve various flora and fauna, generous use of colored candles, and banners/books/symbols of faith. While not neanderthals inherently, they still do use religion as a way of life, as do most other cultures. But since they are more isolated, the religion tends to be a bit wackier/more fanatical while still seeming understandably so. Pots, cups, plates, cutlery, pillows, beds, chairs, rugs, tapestries, fabrics, etc etc all would be nearly primitive but also fitting to the surroundings.
Fauna would consist of very strange and hostile creatures. Perhaps a subject best touched by someone else who can accurately depict the type of things that would live in such a wild place.
Flora, like I stated, would be gray for the most part, with different types of mushrooms and flowers that grow and look almost like predatory creatures. Grasslands themselves would be ashy and mucky, almost frail looking. Generally gloomy atmosphere. Dark colors that seem to warn the player away.
The outer edges of the region would be smaller normal shack villages with some containing an Indoril manor, a type of Dres hold, or a larger type of house to regulate trade and oversee religious things like days of prayer or festivals.
I also think it would be worth mentioning that I have taken the liberty to write my own slice of text as a teaser to show what kind of place and culture I have in mind.
The Swamp-Face of Vhek
Though settled peoples would still think us to be simple, or even dull, we are happy to abide by the lords of trade-reasoning, if only to show persistence in the teachings of the Noble of The House of Coda; Savior Nerevar. A lesson that resonates with our clan is one of such fortitude and suspecting lattice within the minds of greedy men and expanding empires. Scouts of Telvanni have come to us before, for use of our most prized warriors' carcasses for their mythopoeic bindings and pesudo-tonal architectures, which always seem to deteriorate from the bottom up when the stanzas fall ill to too little faith. They spoke of many men clad in golden dragon scales tilling the lands near us, and they would laugh as they threw gold pieces at us in exchange for life-forces of our guardians.
What they did with them, I have been told. I fear not for the souls of our kin, but for the minds of the Telvanni themselves. They do not know in which pools of myth they tread. On many occasions we could invade the smaller settlements near us and engulf and consume and exhume much like the rest who surround us, but instead we show the Swamp-Face in holding our ground. In being One with the Swamps, the bogs, the mud and the rains that swallow the various bug nests and float them down-river. This excerpt comes from the mouths of Adepts before me, and it was given to them in beryllium-lined parchments by Adepts before them, and some may claim that these teachings were given originally to our Fathers by the hand of Nerevar himself, while writing in the fountains of Her palace:
The veins of murky water, the capillaries of soot, the arteries of ash, they all flow in and out of the Swamps. The plateaus of Shokali rise above the clouds and wisps of ash, and from upon the crags lurch the Skylamps and sky warriors. A single blade of brown grass sprouts from a crack in the surface of a large slab of clay. Lord Indoral sat, his eyes fixated upon the grass, when a sigh was let out from the sky. Without turning around he spoke, “Should you not be Bending?â€Â
“I am, and within the asymmetrical lines upon lines I have seen an anomaly.†A voice boomed.
“I seek no counsel at this time. I am simply surveying. How could one build upon this?†Nerevar said as he picked the single blade from its rooted spot with two fingers.
“Much like the anomaly I am pursuing, we both have the same answer.†A single ray of light began to emerge from behind the gray veil of clouds that hung in the sky with such splendor.
“And your question, then?†Lord Nerevar piqued, now looking behind him.
“Another day. Perhaps when you seek counsel. I have come here to try and let you know of a different path I have seen for you though, just as a warning, or a waning. The Mourning House looks into this land for more than just muck. Perhaps there is a dwelling built here already. Perhaps the swamp hides it. I need of you to look and see. If we can find, then it can be shown that what was once lost is now in possession.†Vivec was cloaked in an atlas of smoke and celestial ice; Nerevar looked upon it with eyes agape.
“I cannot look further for I have looked, and searched, and seared, and scorched, and scoured. All there is here is legions from within the Mire and corners of the House. Can you not sense champions of the Scourge? Surely you can.†Nerevar stood up and inched to the ledge of the plateau, gazing out now.
“I have been able to sense many sources of solitude, sentimental sighs, and solace in your own sombre art for a time now. Sensing is something one does from birth. But this place is different from others. This is where a legacy is lost and a fate is found.†Vivec took a hand full of the clay that puddled around in one hand and reached into his disguise with the other, emerging it with a type of shimmering orb, and married the two beneath his waist.
“Difference is a matter of opinion.†Nerevar said as the sun began setting on the swamps, a sort of mellow hue taking over the horizon. Steam from the various molten pits and coves of muck turned a sulfuric shade and whooshed freely into the air, dissipating after getting a few yards away from the bubbling, slimy canvas from which they emerged.
“Opinions are a different matter all together,†Vivec hummed as he extended his arms forward, holding the mixture, finally in matrimony. His eyes seemed almost bequeathed; alms of his Mastery ebbed through the swamplands in harmony with the ash and the Twilight. Nerevar looked upon the relic; a mask had taken form. No symphonies, no pantheons of sacred messengers to bring it forth, no ruckus made of its presence; simply a gift from mentor to pupil. Seven Shadowed Hands seemed to reach forth from Vivec's own, presenting the item to the General.
“With this, you may see the Truth of what is secluding from the light, from the darkness, from the prevalence of Her Mercy, His Insight, and my own Perineum. Many things lie in wait for us, some for the forgotten in time. Some...for the exhaled priests, some for the laymen and the commoners. But some things...they lie in wait for the Righteous. Which path would you chose to have burned beyond you, Nerevar?†Vivec's words pushed forth as night descended upon them both, the clicking of swamp warriors rising from beyond the gorges that surrounded the plateau.
“I thank you for the shift; the transformation,†Nerevar said as he knelt before Vivec, “I wish for you to adorn it with the vestiges of Veloth, anon VELS. Bite into the mire of this pestilence and cleanse the crops of these twisted, defiled demons which inhabit this land. Through Your Eyes I shall find the Tower of this land; sinking and decaying. And with your Love I will make sure it inherits the traits of your secrecy.â€Â
Vivec placed the mask upon Nerevar, and then disbursed into the Arubis once again to leave his protege in meditation for six days, still as stone, upon the flat top of the plateau. After the holy hibernation, he let out a breath that carried plumes of sky warriors out to the winds, and the ground began to heave in such a way that many tension cracks began to form around all manners of the swamps. It is said that to this day the cracks remain visible, tracing a pattern of such insight and tenure of knowledge through the land. Nerevar opened his eyes and smiled as he took off to the west, his feet precariously touching the soil and soot and slime and sands strewn through the landscape. He was clad in nothing but a robe made of the roots, gnarled and vine-laced as they were, which grew from the base of the mucosal pods that dotted the shores of mud, and it began to grow from it beautiful flowers that seeped with ash and poisonous waters. The mask made the bogs swell and run rapidly, overtaking the land, and it also gave Nerevar visions of what was hidden deep within the region; sealed away from time and mer.
He reached his destination, the central bog, and it trembled at the presence of the mask and the warlord. “I see now.†He smiled, and he dipped a finger into the ash that caked the surface. He brought it to his forehead and upon it he drew a circle with a dot in the center, conscripting the mask, proclaiming, “This is truly a remarkable land. A beautiful land. A ravenous junction, consuming all Glory from PADHOME and convalescing it as it is wounded for now from the Red Dragon, and from the drums of epochs eaten before. I wonder, what remnants of our previous kalpas float through Aether now, like ash of woe floats amongst your many bodies.â€Â
The visage of several of Our ancestors appeared before Nerevar. The first of our brethren spoke in a just voice, appealing to all the virtues we confide in; accepting of obedience from marital ties unbroken from ages and eras before. He bid for our Nerevar to build a tower in resemblance to Adamantine Tower, but less grand and more accustomed to housing a clan of mer who were star-sworn from birth to appease the land, to cultivate it in ways that none else knew how, and to allow the Swamp-Seers to patrol the wastes that were once barren and uninhabitable and allow us all to gather and reconcile within the many teachings of Nerevar.
What remains of the mask that began the embarkation of our peoples is within that same tower, in the highest chamber so that it may always look out upon the blessed lands we dwell in, and so it may always protect us and our many Sal-Edtta warriors, and so it may beckon forth our brothers from Houses Mora, Ra'Athim, Retheran, Sul, Oroynyon, and Drenim, so they can bask in the harmonizing swamps much like we do, and keep our land safe from the mercenaries of this realm and others beyond us.
We show the Swamp-Face in our acceptance of knowing that we do not know everything, yet we have the veracity to accept our humility and evolve from it.
Final Thoughts
What I am purposing is a re-imagining of at least parts of Mainland Morrowind. This would require a moderate redo of the current areas, and new meshes, and perhaps even new plans with what to include in the area in regards to civilizations and quests, but do bear in mind that this is also an invitation to perhaps a merging of some of the ideas that would be able to stem from this type of redo of the area. Imagine a large gash on the face of Morrowind, which then feeds into he jungles of Argonia, and would have profound effect on the Dres house as well, in regards to the type of climates they'd be suited to and it would also allow for a lot more creative exploration of not only the player, but of us ourselves as a team of people who have already sacrificed so much, and made so much progress in such a wild world like Tamriel.
If this was real life we were talking about I'd wholeheartedly agree with you. But in the Lore [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18332]the principle[/url] is that often the weirder option is true.EJRS wrote:Occam's razor begs to differ.Rats wrote:Then again, these are the Telvanni were talking about. Could be that the Dust Adepts are planewalkers.
And on the note of ashfall: Denmark receives red rainfall coloured by the sands of the Sahara yearly. Immediate vicinity does not equal direct influence.
Sload had some ideas for the Dust Adepts in [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=315543&highlight=adepts#315543]ye olde Telvanni Brainstorming thread[/url]. In short, they'd be a mystical collective (a shared consciousness?) that operate somewhat independently from the Telvanni. I don't know if there are people with enough knowledge Lore-wise who'd be willing to develop that further in a way that it wouldn't be so esoteric that it becomes nonsensical and boring.
I myself would like to see the Dust Adepts as some sort of magical construction workers among other things. Whenever the Telvanni are creating new pocket realms, they use them.
Ironed Maidens's musings on a new sub-culture was thought-provoking. The general, swampy voodoo feel to it is really nice, though I'm not quite on board with the entire plan. I'll write some sort of response when I've got the time.
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st.Veloth, The Repenting
- Member
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- Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:52 am
- Location: toronto
i feel like swamp is a bit overused here, perhaps it could be some sort of deteriorating fungus plain, that poisons the air... like the rotwood from nausicaa of the valley of the wind. they could be akin to the worm-handlers, just read this..:
http://www.mangareader.net/nausicaa-of-the-valley-of-the-wind/6/15
http://www.mangareader.net/nausicaa-of-the-valley-of-the-wind/6/17
http://www.mangareader.net/nausicaa-of-the-valley-of-the-wind/6/24
representing the more spiritual side of the telvanni, dust adepts view the fungal forests as sacred, choosing not to go there as to enrage spirits, they instead protect it by living in anthill-like complexes, with hunting parties using netch tents.
http://www.mangareader.net/nausicaa-of-the-valley-of-the-wind/6/15
http://www.mangareader.net/nausicaa-of-the-valley-of-the-wind/6/17
http://www.mangareader.net/nausicaa-of-the-valley-of-the-wind/6/24
representing the more spiritual side of the telvanni, dust adepts view the fungal forests as sacred, choosing not to go there as to enrage spirits, they instead protect it by living in anthill-like complexes, with hunting parties using netch tents.
almsivi bless, to create one must first destroy, the nature of all, is in equilibrium
- sotha sil
- sotha sil
As I've already said in the last post of [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24008]this page[/url], I personally don't see why we need to make anything of the [url=http://michaelkirkbride.tumblr.com/image/72778054034]Telvanni Dust Adepts[/url]. (I'm just hyper-linking the concept art for convenience). At most it sounds like a sort of profession to me; akin to [url=http://40.media.tumblr.com/fd9edb276ebcc8f3ff3d04893ee72ad5/tumblr_nkt5gvq8cC1t3fruoo2_1280.jpg]Redoran Watchmen[/url] and [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/pge01_morrowind_pic_03.jpg]Velothi Dust Merchants[/url] and the [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/sites/default/files/pge01_morrowind_pic_01.jpg]Ragmen of Thirr[/url] and Daggerlads. The outfit is clearly a very practical one designed for dusty conditions, with filters and snowshoes and such. The idea of making a powerful if small faction out of Dust Adepts or the like has always struck me as very forced.
Weirdness for weirdness sake just becomes superficial, and makes for a shallow, uncoordinated finished product. The "weirdness" of TES3 always makes sense within the parameters of the TES3-world, if one takes the time to delve into it, thus leaving suspension of disbelief intact. As such, I think that the principle you point towards is a really bad guideline, at least without further definition. "Weird" and "boring" are also very much relative terms with a lot of subjectivity involved. That said, I want TR to be a lot weirder. But it is important that it is a thought-through, meaningful and beleivable weirdness that works together with the other weirdnesses and not-so-weirdnesses as a good whole.Rats wrote:But in the Lore [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18332]the principle[/url] is that often the weirder option is true.
I also feel that that principle is often used very selectively within this project (I'm not pointning a finger at you specificaly, Rats
).In large, I agree with Gnomey on the topic of the Dust Adepts. On a small sidenote: from the MK-text [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/what-my-beloved-taught-me]What My Beloved Taught Me[/url] I got the impression that "daggerlad" denotes a young thug or hoodlum rather than a profession. Same with Ragman, which I interpret as being a term for someone belonging to the proletariat, a ruder or more casual term for the Velothi underclass.
I always just assumed that the Telvanni Dust Adepts were those skilled in ashland survival and travel. A specialized sect used as guides, scavengers or often sent on missions to collect certain items or scout and investigate certain areas in the harshest of ashland terrain.
A cool main land Telvanni mission would be to travel with a Dust Adept or multiple adepts to explore some area and or retrieve some item from the Telvanni ashlands. As the quest giver is an ungreatful telvanni higher up, your sole reward would be the Dust Adept set of equipment you received before you departed for the quest.
A cool main land Telvanni mission would be to travel with a Dust Adept or multiple adepts to explore some area and or retrieve some item from the Telvanni ashlands. As the quest giver is an ungreatful telvanni higher up, your sole reward would be the Dust Adept set of equipment you received before you departed for the quest.
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st.Veloth, The Repenting
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though, i do believe that house telvanni should have some sort of spiritual mini faction, to contrast there rather secular beliefs.
and in the case of the dust adepts, they could be a close preservation of high velothi culture, having a living breathing velothi tower would be cool
and in the case of the dust adepts, they could be a close preservation of high velothi culture, having a living breathing velothi tower would be cool
almsivi bless, to create one must first destroy, the nature of all, is in equilibrium
- sotha sil
- sotha sil
I have too imagined Dust Adepts to be some sort of mercenaries of the Telvanni, perhaps consisting of the usual western mercenaries seen in vanilla (one in that Kirkbride's concept art looks like a female bosmer), or a military order like the Buoyant Armigers. Maybe somewhere in between. Dust Adept could also have been meant as a honorary title for accomplished mercenary or retainer.
However, as there now seems to be two different approaches to create Dust Adepts in very imaginative and exciting way, both potentially involving good amounts of obscure lore, it would feel like wasting of interesting ideas and time spent if not developed at least a little further. Depiction of the Telvanni society and Telvannis itself would really benefit from having some more depth and layers to it, because currently for example ashlanders in Telvannis feel a bit out of place, and those raider people seem really generic. The few velothi villages are very nice though.
I would propose drawing inpiration from various soldier castes of medieval middle east, where groups like the Janissaries and the Mamluks started off as a mere slaves, and over time managed to accumulate substantial amount of power for themselves. In the land of Morrowind, where weird is relative, as told by the renowned khajiit S'ratha, this is not an option however. The Dust Adepts could therefore be a caste of former mercenaries of the Telvanni, who would have managed to gain relative autonomy from their wizard masters, but in order to live without one would have to dwell in the harshest of enviroments and dust valleys. Relation between the two could be complicated yet mutually beneficial, offering lots of interesting interaction for the player.
I think that Dust Adepts, if anything becomes of them, should be exclusively Telvanni phenomenom, and the peripheries of the Dres should have their own oddities.
However, as there now seems to be two different approaches to create Dust Adepts in very imaginative and exciting way, both potentially involving good amounts of obscure lore, it would feel like wasting of interesting ideas and time spent if not developed at least a little further. Depiction of the Telvanni society and Telvannis itself would really benefit from having some more depth and layers to it, because currently for example ashlanders in Telvannis feel a bit out of place, and those raider people seem really generic. The few velothi villages are very nice though.
I would propose drawing inpiration from various soldier castes of medieval middle east, where groups like the Janissaries and the Mamluks started off as a mere slaves, and over time managed to accumulate substantial amount of power for themselves. In the land of Morrowind, where weird is relative, as told by the renowned khajiit S'ratha, this is not an option however. The Dust Adepts could therefore be a caste of former mercenaries of the Telvanni, who would have managed to gain relative autonomy from their wizard masters, but in order to live without one would have to dwell in the harshest of enviroments and dust valleys. Relation between the two could be complicated yet mutually beneficial, offering lots of interesting interaction for the player.
I think that Dust Adepts, if anything becomes of them, should be exclusively Telvanni phenomenom, and the peripheries of the Dres should have their own oddities.
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Ironed Maidens
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Well the funny thing is, is that when I originally brought this concept up last year, I was met with hostility because I was suggesting that what was already done was not good enough. Then this topic got brought up again all on its own this year, with the way the mainland seems a little TOO ripe and lush with vegetation out of normality. So I was just trying to anticipate the curve, I guess. I think that ash wastes don't need to be boring and don't need to follow the exact structure of Vvardenfell, but the ashlands are pretty much as iconic to the game as cliffracers are.
Vurt has a really interesting tree model out there for ashland trees, and while I do find his models for other flora to be...debatable (not quality-wise, his models are of course amazing, but as far as if they fit in to the Morrowind setting fully) the trees he used for the Ashlands are very good and I can see a lot of potential in them if we can use them to our advantage. Also as I said, some type of fungal housing riddled with ash would be really useful, too.
It's not so much a 'religious' look I'm thinking for the Dust Adepts, or Ash Adepts, or whatever. It's more of a...naturalistic consciousness I guess? After having such a deep delve into the properties of magic/magicka, they have a certain connection with Mundus. Almost a cross between a shaman and a hippie.
Vurt has a really interesting tree model out there for ashland trees, and while I do find his models for other flora to be...debatable (not quality-wise, his models are of course amazing, but as far as if they fit in to the Morrowind setting fully) the trees he used for the Ashlands are very good and I can see a lot of potential in them if we can use them to our advantage. Also as I said, some type of fungal housing riddled with ash would be really useful, too.
It's not so much a 'religious' look I'm thinking for the Dust Adepts, or Ash Adepts, or whatever. It's more of a...naturalistic consciousness I guess? After having such a deep delve into the properties of magic/magicka, they have a certain connection with Mundus. Almost a cross between a shaman and a hippie.
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Dormichigan64
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I don't think Telvannis necessarily has to have ashlands for there to be Dust Adepts. Maybe they can be hired by the Telvanni to scout out/explore/be special mercenaries of the ashlands across Morrowind. I also don't see them as being a religion.
Maybe they can also be hired by the player to protect him/her in the ashlands. Or you can see traveling merchants and the like guarded by the Adepts.
Maybe they can also be hired by the player to protect him/her in the ashlands. Or you can see traveling merchants and the like guarded by the Adepts.
"When life gives you lemonade, make lemons. And life will be all like 'what??'" - Phil Dunphy's Phil's-osophy
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Ironed Maidens
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Here is a post I made a while back, explaining my idea for the Dust Adepts and their place within House Telvanni:
[spoiler]Since there seems to be surge of activity in this thread, here are my two cents on the Telvanni:
- "Telvanni", somewhat in the same sense as "Indoril", does not refer to the common people living on Telvanni land. Rather, the term refers to people in service of or in association with the the wizard-lords. The wizards ARE the Telvanni, their associates are Telvanni by association.
- The Telvanni lands are inhospitable wastes. Seeking isolation has led the Telvanni to inhabit areas of land shunned by others. This also means that at their home-ground, the Telvanni have next to no conflicts over territory with other factions. It also means that, as the faction grows, they will be forced to expand outwards.
- The ihospitability of the north-eastern lands means that travel is difficult and perilous. This is the reason why the Telvanni have developed the complicated surgical methods for controlling silt striders.
- Farming is next to impossible in these lands, forcing the inhabitants to seek sustenance for methods viable under these conditions, such as herding bugs and foraging.
- Since resources are scarce, the tower-dwellers as well as the people of the wastes depend on supplies from the outside. Telvanni caravans leave loaded with magical goods, such as enchanted items and alchemical brews, bug-products such as bug-musk, and "prepared" silt striders, and return with supplies and goods from the southern province. The sorceror-scholars of the towers also trade for rare books and curious artifacts to aid them in their esoteric research.
- Naturally, the Telvanni themselves are not geared towards trade, which is both perilous and time consuming. Instead, this function is served by a caste or society of hardened and adventurous individuals, who brave the dangers of the wastes, leading their caravans between settlements, and further south into the lands of other houses. They also serve as messengers, agents and the outward eyes and ears of the Telvanni. These are the dust-adepts. In the concept art, a dust-adepts is pictured wearing something similar to snow-shoes, which I can only assume are "ash-shoes". Also, the famous helm seems to have been developed with harsh conditions in mind. Therefore I get the feeling that the "dust" of their title refers to the volcanic ash and dust of their native lands, rather than some kind of metaphor for mortality or similar.
Just tossing out ideas, here. Personally, I feel that the inhospitability of Morrowind has been extremely downplayed in both the original game, and TR. I can see why Bethesda opted to go for a way softer version of Morrowind than depicted in art or text, seeing as they were dealing with a rather limited area within the province as the setting for an entire game, but I'd love to see more of it getting included in TR. [/spoiler]
This is fully combineable with the concept proposed by DMKW. I really don't think there should be some grand magical concept behind them, that is a card that is being pulled way too often to the point of it being totally boring, while detailing the society that has developed around the unique circumstances of the alien landscapes of Morrowind is pretty much left behind.
[spoiler]Since there seems to be surge of activity in this thread, here are my two cents on the Telvanni:
- "Telvanni", somewhat in the same sense as "Indoril", does not refer to the common people living on Telvanni land. Rather, the term refers to people in service of or in association with the the wizard-lords. The wizards ARE the Telvanni, their associates are Telvanni by association.
- The Telvanni lands are inhospitable wastes. Seeking isolation has led the Telvanni to inhabit areas of land shunned by others. This also means that at their home-ground, the Telvanni have next to no conflicts over territory with other factions. It also means that, as the faction grows, they will be forced to expand outwards.
- The ihospitability of the north-eastern lands means that travel is difficult and perilous. This is the reason why the Telvanni have developed the complicated surgical methods for controlling silt striders.
- Farming is next to impossible in these lands, forcing the inhabitants to seek sustenance for methods viable under these conditions, such as herding bugs and foraging.
- Since resources are scarce, the tower-dwellers as well as the people of the wastes depend on supplies from the outside. Telvanni caravans leave loaded with magical goods, such as enchanted items and alchemical brews, bug-products such as bug-musk, and "prepared" silt striders, and return with supplies and goods from the southern province. The sorceror-scholars of the towers also trade for rare books and curious artifacts to aid them in their esoteric research.
- Naturally, the Telvanni themselves are not geared towards trade, which is both perilous and time consuming. Instead, this function is served by a caste or society of hardened and adventurous individuals, who brave the dangers of the wastes, leading their caravans between settlements, and further south into the lands of other houses. They also serve as messengers, agents and the outward eyes and ears of the Telvanni. These are the dust-adepts. In the concept art, a dust-adepts is pictured wearing something similar to snow-shoes, which I can only assume are "ash-shoes". Also, the famous helm seems to have been developed with harsh conditions in mind. Therefore I get the feeling that the "dust" of their title refers to the volcanic ash and dust of their native lands, rather than some kind of metaphor for mortality or similar.
Just tossing out ideas, here. Personally, I feel that the inhospitability of Morrowind has been extremely downplayed in both the original game, and TR. I can see why Bethesda opted to go for a way softer version of Morrowind than depicted in art or text, seeing as they were dealing with a rather limited area within the province as the setting for an entire game, but I'd love to see more of it getting included in TR. [/spoiler]
This is fully combineable with the concept proposed by DMKW. I really don't think there should be some grand magical concept behind them, that is a card that is being pulled way too often to the point of it being totally boring, while detailing the society that has developed around the unique circumstances of the alien landscapes of Morrowind is pretty much left behind.
I'd say even calling them a sect might be going too far, but otherwise I agree with that interpretation. They are basically Dunmer adept (pun intended) at traversing the hostile landscapes of the Telvanni holdings who often, if not always, serve the Telvanni as hirelings or retainers. That's about it.
In general, my opinion aligns pretty exactly with EJRS' points. I'd particularly underline the first point: the Telvanni are a very small and exclusive group of Dunmer wizards. To make up for their small number and general laziness and reclusive attitude, they make extensive use of a wide variety of hirelings and retainers as well as slaves. As with the other Houses, Telvanni expect their hirelings and retainers to serve them exclusively, more or less out of paranoia/caution. As such, while not every Dunmer serving House Telvanni would need to officially join the House, (such as commoners living around the tower who would also serve their wizard lords to varying degrees and by various means), others, such as warriors/mages, would. And, by swearing to exclusively serve that House, they are also subject to the House's rules and, if they have the power and ambition, can climb the ranks if they so desire.
I would not be against us creating a new group if we feel there would be worth in that, such as a more spiritual counterpart to the Telvanni. If we do that, I think st. Veloth's idea of drawing in the Velothi towers is a good one. But I don't think we need grab at the slightest scrap of a Bethesda idea and blow it out of proportion for that; we can just come up with our own ideas.
The dust adept concept is great, certainly, and I can understand the temptation of taking a great concept and fleshing it out to its full potential. However, Morrowind is supposed to be interesting on every level; that's what makes the world so engaging. It's supposed to be an alien world, not a mundane world with a lot of alien concepts piled on top.
In the first Skype Meeting in the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24486]summaries thread[/url], there's mention of an analogy, though incomplete: that we should tell the story of the gods, of kings, of the farmer and of his dog. So the epic tale of the Vvardenfell and Tribunal mainquests exploring the world of Tamriel and the province of Morrowind in particular, exploring the world's metaphysics and various other themes; the tales of intrigue mostly revolving around the Great Houses which portray the world's politics, which we have put a greater focus on, at least for the time being; the tales of the ordinary man; and I frankly forgot what the dog was doing there, which is a pity because it was pretty much the point of the original analogy, but I think it represented the little details of the world that fully flesh it out.
It's easy to get too focused on the first two. They generally seem more immediately interesting; just as there was some resistance to having Velothi towns in Indoril lands because non-House Dunmer were generic and boring. Hoarding all of the good ideas for big questlines or major groups is a bad tendency, as it leaves the rest of the world bare in comparison. We need to make Velothi interesting, we need to make the landscape and caves interesting -- after all, that's where players will generally spend most of their time -- and we need to make the House hirelings and retainers interesting.
And, again, 'interesting' doesn't mean 'completely fleshed out'. As in my earlier post, Morrowind is full of creative descriptions such as 'Velothi Dust Merchants', and sometimes it's enough to just throw out an interesting name and leave the rest to the imagination.
That rant sort of touches upon several issues I have with Ironed Maidens' idea, and -- I think -- the issues Sload and I were trying point out [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24530&highlight=swampface+vivec]when the idea first came up[/url].
And I feel as though there was a misunderstanding here; your idea was not met with hostility, but skepticism and criticism, which is not only to be expected when a radical new idea is proposed, but is actually a very good thing; we attempted to point out what our issues with the idea were. Criticism can reveal the weak parts of ones ideas, or ones presentation of the ideas. Which is not to say the ideas necessarily need to be changed; sometimes the critics just have to be convinced of the idea, sometimes the criticism arose out of a misunderstanding of the original idea, sometimes it's just a matter of taste, and sometimes there's actually an issue with the idea. By exploring each of those possibilities and addressing them, one can either clarify the idea, making it more easily digestible for others, or amend and improve the idea. In short, I'm basically describing the concept of peer review.
From reading the thread again, I think that, though people can and have taken issue with his choice of words, Sload in particular was trying to be helpful in pointing out what parts of your approach might make your ideas harder to swallow for other members of the project and, wording aside, I think his points were valid.
A matter of taste is certainly involved, and it's inevitable and -- in my opinion -- can even be a good thing that in any larger project some ideas will be included that some members will dislike. I think it can lead to a more fleshed out and interesting world. Not all people are interested in TES metaphysics, for instance, and plenty of people have their issues with aspects of TES lore, but their presence helps fill out the world and allows the world to provide something for everyone, so to speak. The problem is getting the ideas approved in the first place; if most people are not convinced by the idea, or if the leads are unconvinced of the idea fitting into the world we as a project are trying to portray -- that is pretty much the main job of lead developers after all -- then one can't really expect for the idea to be implemented, at least in its current form.
And on a final note, as to the opinion that what was already done was good enough, that applied largely to Grey Meadows, then called Ash Swamp, to which the opinion still applies; it is an excellent region. For the rest, it applied to the fact that your idea as originally stated would have involved major reworking of all the land from the Ash Swamp to Inlet Bog; while I hardly think the areas in question are perfect, I still think such an endeavour would be going overboard, and you agreed with me on that point at the time. As far as Inlet Bog itself is concerned, I was in favour of changing the region to some degree, though I admit I had reservations at the time about keeping the region relatively uninhabited which have since been resolved. I didn't really go into that in that thread, though.
In general, my opinion aligns pretty exactly with EJRS' points. I'd particularly underline the first point: the Telvanni are a very small and exclusive group of Dunmer wizards. To make up for their small number and general laziness and reclusive attitude, they make extensive use of a wide variety of hirelings and retainers as well as slaves. As with the other Houses, Telvanni expect their hirelings and retainers to serve them exclusively, more or less out of paranoia/caution. As such, while not every Dunmer serving House Telvanni would need to officially join the House, (such as commoners living around the tower who would also serve their wizard lords to varying degrees and by various means), others, such as warriors/mages, would. And, by swearing to exclusively serve that House, they are also subject to the House's rules and, if they have the power and ambition, can climb the ranks if they so desire.
I would not be against us creating a new group if we feel there would be worth in that, such as a more spiritual counterpart to the Telvanni. If we do that, I think st. Veloth's idea of drawing in the Velothi towers is a good one. But I don't think we need grab at the slightest scrap of a Bethesda idea and blow it out of proportion for that; we can just come up with our own ideas.
The dust adept concept is great, certainly, and I can understand the temptation of taking a great concept and fleshing it out to its full potential. However, Morrowind is supposed to be interesting on every level; that's what makes the world so engaging. It's supposed to be an alien world, not a mundane world with a lot of alien concepts piled on top.
In the first Skype Meeting in the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24486]summaries thread[/url], there's mention of an analogy, though incomplete: that we should tell the story of the gods, of kings, of the farmer and of his dog. So the epic tale of the Vvardenfell and Tribunal mainquests exploring the world of Tamriel and the province of Morrowind in particular, exploring the world's metaphysics and various other themes; the tales of intrigue mostly revolving around the Great Houses which portray the world's politics, which we have put a greater focus on, at least for the time being; the tales of the ordinary man; and I frankly forgot what the dog was doing there, which is a pity because it was pretty much the point of the original analogy, but I think it represented the little details of the world that fully flesh it out.
It's easy to get too focused on the first two. They generally seem more immediately interesting; just as there was some resistance to having Velothi towns in Indoril lands because non-House Dunmer were generic and boring. Hoarding all of the good ideas for big questlines or major groups is a bad tendency, as it leaves the rest of the world bare in comparison. We need to make Velothi interesting, we need to make the landscape and caves interesting -- after all, that's where players will generally spend most of their time -- and we need to make the House hirelings and retainers interesting.
And, again, 'interesting' doesn't mean 'completely fleshed out'. As in my earlier post, Morrowind is full of creative descriptions such as 'Velothi Dust Merchants', and sometimes it's enough to just throw out an interesting name and leave the rest to the imagination.
That rant sort of touches upon several issues I have with Ironed Maidens' idea, and -- I think -- the issues Sload and I were trying point out [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24530&highlight=swampface+vivec]when the idea first came up[/url].
And I feel as though there was a misunderstanding here; your idea was not met with hostility, but skepticism and criticism, which is not only to be expected when a radical new idea is proposed, but is actually a very good thing; we attempted to point out what our issues with the idea were. Criticism can reveal the weak parts of ones ideas, or ones presentation of the ideas. Which is not to say the ideas necessarily need to be changed; sometimes the critics just have to be convinced of the idea, sometimes the criticism arose out of a misunderstanding of the original idea, sometimes it's just a matter of taste, and sometimes there's actually an issue with the idea. By exploring each of those possibilities and addressing them, one can either clarify the idea, making it more easily digestible for others, or amend and improve the idea. In short, I'm basically describing the concept of peer review.
From reading the thread again, I think that, though people can and have taken issue with his choice of words, Sload in particular was trying to be helpful in pointing out what parts of your approach might make your ideas harder to swallow for other members of the project and, wording aside, I think his points were valid.
A matter of taste is certainly involved, and it's inevitable and -- in my opinion -- can even be a good thing that in any larger project some ideas will be included that some members will dislike. I think it can lead to a more fleshed out and interesting world. Not all people are interested in TES metaphysics, for instance, and plenty of people have their issues with aspects of TES lore, but their presence helps fill out the world and allows the world to provide something for everyone, so to speak. The problem is getting the ideas approved in the first place; if most people are not convinced by the idea, or if the leads are unconvinced of the idea fitting into the world we as a project are trying to portray -- that is pretty much the main job of lead developers after all -- then one can't really expect for the idea to be implemented, at least in its current form.
And on a final note, as to the opinion that what was already done was good enough, that applied largely to Grey Meadows, then called Ash Swamp, to which the opinion still applies; it is an excellent region. For the rest, it applied to the fact that your idea as originally stated would have involved major reworking of all the land from the Ash Swamp to Inlet Bog; while I hardly think the areas in question are perfect, I still think such an endeavour would be going overboard, and you agreed with me on that point at the time. As far as Inlet Bog itself is concerned, I was in favour of changing the region to some degree, though I admit I had reservations at the time about keeping the region relatively uninhabited which have since been resolved. I didn't really go into that in that thread, though.
This is Michael Kirkbride quoting Ken Rolston: "Tell God's story, then tell the farmer's story, then listen to what the dog has to say".Gnomey wrote:...there's mention of an analogy, though incomplete: that we should tell the story of the gods, of kings, of the farmer and of his dog.
As for spirituality on Telvanni lands: one suggesion would be a Temple fundamentalist branch gaining popularity among the Velothi of the region. This would be an interesting opportunity illuminating the tensions between the wizards of the Towers and the common people of the surrounding regions. This could include prophets, apocrypha and whatever you like.
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st.Veloth, The Repenting
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i like the idea of dust adepts being akin to dust merchants, perhaps a new bug akin to netch could be used in transport, i think though, that dust adepts or even the common people in telvanni lands should have their own style of velothi, considering that the whole crazy mushroom tower thing gets repetitive, and, the common people don't live there anyway. the idea of telvanni trade routes is neat, perhaps telvanni could use velothi towers as outposts and stop off points, considering the fact that velothi towers have been used by telvanni traditionally.
almsivi bless, to create one must first destroy, the nature of all, is in equilibrium
- sotha sil
- sotha sil
Yeah, the current rough idea is to limit Telvanni presence to wizard towers, with Port Telvannis and Sadrith Mora as -- I think -- the only proper Telvanni settlements, but towers do still have a small population of tradesmer and the like, who I was referring to. Most of the rest of the Telvannis population would live in Velothi settlements and perhaps cave dwellings and the like.
Good ideas as far as the Velothi towers are concerned.
And that's the quote, EJRS, though I thought I remembered the king being in there as well. I'm glad you remember it/found it.
As for a Temple fundamentalist branch, that naturally depends on how we decide to portray the Temple. I'm starting to think that House Indoril should be the main source of Temple crack-downs and intolerance, and through association the Ordinators, and, certainly, probably a significant part of the priesthood. I'm sort of liking the idea of the Temple itself being relatively chill and positive by nature, but the Indoril, in trying to protect it, are strangling it, corrupting it and turning people away from it. In short, that through excessive love the Indoril are killing the Temple just as every single other Great House is, and arguably every other faction in Morrowind besides.
Which doesn't really go counter to your idea; quite the opposite. The Indoril -- perhaps particularly those competing nobles near the Indoril/Telvanni border -- may be trying to 'score points' by bringing the Velothi populace of Telvannis under their sway. The -- essentially -- missionaries/inquisitors they send out to that end could or could not have their own dynamic and identity, depending on what we want to do with them. By trying to bring the Velothi into the service of the Indoril lords, they are trying to establish a give-and-take relationship which would replace the current give-and-take relationship the Velothi have with the Telvanni, hence the conflict. For instance.
Good ideas as far as the Velothi towers are concerned.
And that's the quote, EJRS, though I thought I remembered the king being in there as well. I'm glad you remember it/found it.
As for a Temple fundamentalist branch, that naturally depends on how we decide to portray the Temple. I'm starting to think that House Indoril should be the main source of Temple crack-downs and intolerance, and through association the Ordinators, and, certainly, probably a significant part of the priesthood. I'm sort of liking the idea of the Temple itself being relatively chill and positive by nature, but the Indoril, in trying to protect it, are strangling it, corrupting it and turning people away from it. In short, that through excessive love the Indoril are killing the Temple just as every single other Great House is, and arguably every other faction in Morrowind besides.
Which doesn't really go counter to your idea; quite the opposite. The Indoril -- perhaps particularly those competing nobles near the Indoril/Telvanni border -- may be trying to 'score points' by bringing the Velothi populace of Telvannis under their sway. The -- essentially -- missionaries/inquisitors they send out to that end could or could not have their own dynamic and identity, depending on what we want to do with them. By trying to bring the Velothi into the service of the Indoril lords, they are trying to establish a give-and-take relationship which would replace the current give-and-take relationship the Velothi have with the Telvanni, hence the conflict. For instance.
This is good stuff, I like it!Gnomey wrote: Which doesn't really go counter to your idea; quite the opposite. The Indoril -- perhaps particularly those competing nobles near the Indoril/Telvanni border -- may be trying to 'score points' by bringing the Velothi populace of Telvannis under their sway. The -- essentially -- missionaries/inquisitors they send out to that end could or could not have their own dynamic and identity, depending on what we want to do with them. By trying to bring the Velothi into the service of the Indoril lords, they are trying to establish a give-and-take relationship which would replace the current give-and-take relationship the Velothi have with the Telvanni, hence the conflict. For instance.
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Ironed Maidens
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