Note: This thread is for discussing the velk, their biology, lore, and history, and how they and their nectar relate to House Indoril. There is also an [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=329413]asset development thread[/url] which specifically focuses on making the jugs, cups, etc that velk would be prepared/served/drunk out of. -10Kaziem
This is for planning what to do with Velk on the mainland.
So far, there are no instances of domesticated Velk in the mainland that I know of, despite their docility. Rot & I discussed the issue and came up with some ideas regarding what to do with them:
1.) Ensure the Velk are Indoril-only, or at least only inhabit lush, verdant areas like those in Indoril territory.
2.) Velk nectar can be made into a thick & sweet alcoholic beverage, very popular in Almalexia. The beverage is expensive, acceptable to drink in polite company, and a person can never get "smashed" drinking it. As rot put it, a "tea-booze".
3.) Make Merelag, north of Almalexia, a center of Velk domestication and nectar processing. This would add definition and purpose to a currently purposeless town.
[Indoril] Velk and Their Nectar
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Tondollari
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AFAIK the only "source", from which the name was taken, is the skeleton man interview
Travis Ulchovik, Senior Zoologist with the Imperial Flora and Fauna Survey, Northeast Bureau wrote:Its various flora and fauna not only have adapted to survive the ashfall, they have come to depend on it. This is why, for example, the sand kwoom or long-legged velks are an extreme rarity outside of the province -- only a very wealthy man could afford to import enough kresh-weed to keep one alive outside its native land.
I'd like to pitch in an alternative suggestion for the velk-nectar:
Having it be the basis for a exclusive alchoholic beverage is a great idea, but having it be like "tea-booze" seems a bit tame and...well, simple.
Rather, I would have it be a thick and sweet alchoholic beverage, having some kind of at-the-table preparation ritual attached to it (emphasising Indoril as being cosmopolitan and well bred, think [url]http://www.wormwoodsociety.org/index.php/serving-absinthe-mainmenu-228[/url]), with mildly hallucinogenic properties. This would, however, not be used for debauched ends; rather, it would be used for religious revelation. There are plenty of real-world examples of hallucinogenic substances being used for religious ends, and Dunmer religion seems to have (although somewhat understated) the proper mystical sides to make such use plausible.
Although being used for religious ends, the nectar-drink would not be used exclusively by priest, since Indoril nobles can be expected to be well-versed in and delving into topics of faith. It would not, however, be a party drink. There could be a diluted variant for that purpose, though.
Think absinthe of 1800s myth for those with a religious penchant. I think this gives it an interesting complexity, and lends house Indoril a touch of much-needed weirdness.
Having it be the basis for a exclusive alchoholic beverage is a great idea, but having it be like "tea-booze" seems a bit tame and...well, simple.
Rather, I would have it be a thick and sweet alchoholic beverage, having some kind of at-the-table preparation ritual attached to it (emphasising Indoril as being cosmopolitan and well bred, think [url]http://www.wormwoodsociety.org/index.php/serving-absinthe-mainmenu-228[/url]), with mildly hallucinogenic properties. This would, however, not be used for debauched ends; rather, it would be used for religious revelation. There are plenty of real-world examples of hallucinogenic substances being used for religious ends, and Dunmer religion seems to have (although somewhat understated) the proper mystical sides to make such use plausible.
Although being used for religious ends, the nectar-drink would not be used exclusively by priest, since Indoril nobles can be expected to be well-versed in and delving into topics of faith. It would not, however, be a party drink. There could be a diluted variant for that purpose, though.
Think absinthe of 1800s myth for those with a religious penchant. I think this gives it an interesting complexity, and lends house Indoril a touch of much-needed weirdness.
One thing we could use for the Indoril-Thirr area and for when we return to Indoril lands further east would be Velk brew paraphernalia. The main items that come to mind would be some sort of bottle, to be used as the 'potion', perhaps a fancy cup, which could even taking cues from the [url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Zayphod/media/Morrowind5/Shot2051.jpg.html]House Dagoth cup[/url], and some sort of samovar. [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24514&highlight=samovar]This thread[/url] might provide some inspiration.
The paraphernalia should look Indoril and very fancy; for convenience's sake I've attached an image of a few Indoril objects as well as a Velk nectar sac below. If you plan to incorporate any metal, keep in mind that, as seen on the roof in the foreground, Indoril seem to favour some kind of brass.[spoiler][url=http://i.imgur.com/jtaM24F.png][img]http://i.imgur.com/jtaM24F.png[/img][/url][/spoiler]
The paraphernalia should look Indoril and very fancy; for convenience's sake I've attached an image of a few Indoril objects as well as a Velk nectar sac below. If you plan to incorporate any metal, keep in mind that, as seen on the roof in the foreground, Indoril seem to favour some kind of brass.[spoiler][url=http://i.imgur.com/jtaM24F.png][img]http://i.imgur.com/jtaM24F.png[/img][/url][/spoiler]
Okay, I have some things for you. These aren't finished, but together they should give you a pretty good idea what I'm thinking of.
First, some outlines, which are to scale with each other.
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velk-Brewing-Set-543468436
Second, a whole series of sketches, which show some more detail in some cases and some badly typo'd potential lore.
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velk-Nectar-Sketch-543434423
Some more colorful and detailed sketches to follow, but feedback would be nice at this point.
The rough idea I am thinking of is that a jug of nectar is bought from the market. A noble owns a set consisting of one urn, a set of cups, a mini bottle of additive, a spoon, and a stirrer or set of stirrers. Drink is heated or just dispensed from the urn. The additive is something like fire salts or something like that that would either enhance or neutralize some native property of the drink. The stirrer, if metal, might also lend some sort of property. Heat from hands holding the cup might also affect the drink.
The result is drunk from cups in a relatively formal situation, possibly resembling powerful business people sipping liquor and making Important Decisions.
I also imagine that the cups would be stored on or around the urn, and the little bottle on top, so that the whole set can be a display object for a household.
Further lore elaborations (with impressive amounts of typo) are present in the sketches.
I anticipate that there might a book written in game on the proper way to serve and drink this, which I would be plenty willing to write if anyone cared.
First, some outlines, which are to scale with each other.
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velk-Brewing-Set-543468436
Second, a whole series of sketches, which show some more detail in some cases and some badly typo'd potential lore.
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velk-Nectar-Sketch-543434423
Some more colorful and detailed sketches to follow, but feedback would be nice at this point.
The rough idea I am thinking of is that a jug of nectar is bought from the market. A noble owns a set consisting of one urn, a set of cups, a mini bottle of additive, a spoon, and a stirrer or set of stirrers. Drink is heated or just dispensed from the urn. The additive is something like fire salts or something like that that would either enhance or neutralize some native property of the drink. The stirrer, if metal, might also lend some sort of property. Heat from hands holding the cup might also affect the drink.
The result is drunk from cups in a relatively formal situation, possibly resembling powerful business people sipping liquor and making Important Decisions.
I also imagine that the cups would be stored on or around the urn, and the little bottle on top, so that the whole set can be a display object for a household.
Further lore elaborations (with impressive amounts of typo) are present in the sketches.
I anticipate that there might a book written in game on the proper way to serve and drink this, which I would be plenty willing to write if anyone cared.
Haven't yet had the time to read yuor typotext, but the images and lore you wrote here are great! I'd personally love to see a book about the customs of this drink, however I think traditions would vary across Morrowind. Maybe an Imperial written book/guide about Dunmer velk nectar traditions/culture.
Sorry for the delayed response, I spent all of yesterday trying to decipher your notes. 
Seriously, though, excellent work!
A few notes:
-as a sort of matter of feng shui, I'd try and completely avoid the number four, and favour three. While I usually don't think we should overdo this sort of numerology (Indoril buildings have four corners, for instance), this is one instance where I think we should embrace it.
-as a separate matter, I think I generally prefer polygons rather than circles for this, at least for the larger pieces.
-Velk nectar should, in my opinion, as a rule be off-limits for non-Indoril. I think that should even extend to the priesthood; only high-ranking members, who are probably Indoril anyway, would be given access to the stuff.
-I'd actually suggest having two versions of the brew, the noble version and religious version, but with different roles: the 'noble' version is simply the mixture used when entertaining guests. The 'religious' version is simply the mixture used by Indoril when not entertaining guests, but instead deep in private spiritual contemplation.
In Indoril lands, trade and barter reign. Indoril Draler Ilvi rules over the (eastern bank of the) Thirr River Valley (minus Old Ebonheart). That means he controls Felms Ithul, a hamlet that breeds Velk and extracts their nectar, and Vhul, a town that ferments the nectar into the final beverage. A lot of other Indoril lords will probably not be so privileged, lacking a local source of Velk brew, but for that will have their own goods to trade. For instance, Indoril Draler Ilvi might not have any specialized potters and glassmakers at his disposal, so he has to get his Velk brew drinking set from elsewhere, and for such a specialized ware reserved for Indoril that means he'd have to get the set from a fellow Indoril.
In that way, an immense number of goods flow through Indoril lands, but generally no money exchanges hands; the goods are either traded for other goods or given as gifts.
That trade network goes through House Indoril, and the Velothi people are generally unaffected by it. They provide certain goods for their lord, and their lord provides (or rather their lord's servants provide) them with most of the necessities they can't secure for themselves. They generally have few real personal belongings, and there's not much of a middle-class to speak of, though the Hetman and priests might qualify.
All of which is to say that I think we only need one set, for Indoril nobles. While, now that you mention it, I do like the idea of the Hetman and perhaps some priests having a nice drinking set to entertain honoured guests, and perhaps even having some form of communal drinking set for a village, tong or cornerclub, I think the drink in the former case should probably be Greef and in the latter case probably Mazte.
Finally to the actual concepts:
Jugs: despite what I said about the number four, I like A best of the two. Call it the exception that proves the rule.
Cups: I like D best. I think it should have three or five leg protrusions instead of four.
These cups look like they're for individual use, or perhaps for private company. I'd like to see a larger cup as well, which looks more like it's intended to be passed around in a larger gathering; perhaps with a profile more like [url=http://www.superluminal.com/cookbook/images/goblet_seljuk_large.jpg]this[/url] (though not quite so ponderous) or [url=http://www.medievalarchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/chalice.jpg]this[/url].
Stirring Rods: I'd prefer the silver rod with the same shape but without the scrolled design, and I'm not sure whether silver would fit in. I like the bronze one best.
Powder Spoon: again, I'm not sure whether I like the scrolled design and (assumed) use of silver, but I like the shape.
Powder Jar: I like it. This one may work best five-or-six-sided.
Samovars: I think I like the silhouette of C best, but would prefer if it had the turquoise texture and were multi-sided rather than round.
Seriously, though, excellent work!A few notes:
-as a sort of matter of feng shui, I'd try and completely avoid the number four, and favour three. While I usually don't think we should overdo this sort of numerology (Indoril buildings have four corners, for instance), this is one instance where I think we should embrace it.
-as a separate matter, I think I generally prefer polygons rather than circles for this, at least for the larger pieces.
-Velk nectar should, in my opinion, as a rule be off-limits for non-Indoril. I think that should even extend to the priesthood; only high-ranking members, who are probably Indoril anyway, would be given access to the stuff.
-I'd actually suggest having two versions of the brew, the noble version and religious version, but with different roles: the 'noble' version is simply the mixture used when entertaining guests. The 'religious' version is simply the mixture used by Indoril when not entertaining guests, but instead deep in private spiritual contemplation.
In Indoril lands, trade and barter reign. Indoril Draler Ilvi rules over the (eastern bank of the) Thirr River Valley (minus Old Ebonheart). That means he controls Felms Ithul, a hamlet that breeds Velk and extracts their nectar, and Vhul, a town that ferments the nectar into the final beverage. A lot of other Indoril lords will probably not be so privileged, lacking a local source of Velk brew, but for that will have their own goods to trade. For instance, Indoril Draler Ilvi might not have any specialized potters and glassmakers at his disposal, so he has to get his Velk brew drinking set from elsewhere, and for such a specialized ware reserved for Indoril that means he'd have to get the set from a fellow Indoril.
In that way, an immense number of goods flow through Indoril lands, but generally no money exchanges hands; the goods are either traded for other goods or given as gifts.
That trade network goes through House Indoril, and the Velothi people are generally unaffected by it. They provide certain goods for their lord, and their lord provides (or rather their lord's servants provide) them with most of the necessities they can't secure for themselves. They generally have few real personal belongings, and there's not much of a middle-class to speak of, though the Hetman and priests might qualify.
All of which is to say that I think we only need one set, for Indoril nobles. While, now that you mention it, I do like the idea of the Hetman and perhaps some priests having a nice drinking set to entertain honoured guests, and perhaps even having some form of communal drinking set for a village, tong or cornerclub, I think the drink in the former case should probably be Greef and in the latter case probably Mazte.
Finally to the actual concepts:
Jugs: despite what I said about the number four, I like A best of the two. Call it the exception that proves the rule.
Cups: I like D best. I think it should have three or five leg protrusions instead of four.
These cups look like they're for individual use, or perhaps for private company. I'd like to see a larger cup as well, which looks more like it's intended to be passed around in a larger gathering; perhaps with a profile more like [url=http://www.superluminal.com/cookbook/images/goblet_seljuk_large.jpg]this[/url] (though not quite so ponderous) or [url=http://www.medievalarchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/chalice.jpg]this[/url].
Stirring Rods: I'd prefer the silver rod with the same shape but without the scrolled design, and I'm not sure whether silver would fit in. I like the bronze one best.
Powder Spoon: again, I'm not sure whether I like the scrolled design and (assumed) use of silver, but I like the shape.
Powder Jar: I like it. This one may work best five-or-six-sided.
Samovars: I think I like the silhouette of C best, but would prefer if it had the turquoise texture and were multi-sided rather than round.
Okay, so I'm thinking this, as a summary, then:
Velk Brew is a drink enjoyed exclusively by the Indoril, and the upper-class Indoril in particular.
The brew is served in either religious or noble-gathering situations, and for this there will be one set created. The set of models will include:
One small cup (option D)
One large fancy cup (option D but fancier)
One "powder" jar
One "powder" spoon (green)
One stirrer (option C)*
One urn (option C, but green)*
One market jug (option A)
*For urn shape, I probably would like a hybrid between C and F. I love E, though, so let's save it for later. I personally favor the very plain glass stirrer, but that might just be fond memories of chemistry class.
I had originally imagined these all to be polygonal but with soft edges, with the number of sides to be determined by whatever number we picked. If 3 is a good Indoril number, I will swap everything to represent 3 or 6.
There will be some fancy preparation involving the urn, some additive, and stirring; then the drink is served into a big pass-around cup or a set of individual cups, depending.
So long as this set of images is decided upon, the exact lore can be hammered out later.
Unused concepts can be used to make other upper, middle, or lower class communal drinking sets for whatever booze or tea.
Questions before I move on to making a more final image:
1) My current design is nice, but not overly ornate. I thought this fit the temple aesthetic. Does anyone think it should be more or less fancy?
2) Is this drink going to be heated? I.e., is the drink dispenser an urn or a samovar? If it's a samovar, I'll need to put the heating elements in the design.
3) Should the urn have a built in place for the cups to rest, or would cups be stored arranged around it?
Velk Brew is a drink enjoyed exclusively by the Indoril, and the upper-class Indoril in particular.
The brew is served in either religious or noble-gathering situations, and for this there will be one set created. The set of models will include:
One small cup (option D)
One large fancy cup (option D but fancier)
One "powder" jar
One "powder" spoon (green)
One stirrer (option C)*
One urn (option C, but green)*
One market jug (option A)
*For urn shape, I probably would like a hybrid between C and F. I love E, though, so let's save it for later. I personally favor the very plain glass stirrer, but that might just be fond memories of chemistry class.
I had originally imagined these all to be polygonal but with soft edges, with the number of sides to be determined by whatever number we picked. If 3 is a good Indoril number, I will swap everything to represent 3 or 6.
There will be some fancy preparation involving the urn, some additive, and stirring; then the drink is served into a big pass-around cup or a set of individual cups, depending.
So long as this set of images is decided upon, the exact lore can be hammered out later.
Unused concepts can be used to make other upper, middle, or lower class communal drinking sets for whatever booze or tea.
Questions before I move on to making a more final image:
1) My current design is nice, but not overly ornate. I thought this fit the temple aesthetic. Does anyone think it should be more or less fancy?
2) Is this drink going to be heated? I.e., is the drink dispenser an urn or a samovar? If it's a samovar, I'll need to put the heating elements in the design.
3) Should the urn have a built in place for the cups to rest, or would cups be stored arranged around it?
Ah, a bit of clarification: all Indoril are nobles. There are no real upper- and lower-class Indoril, they're all upper-class, though some families have more prestige than others. The Indoril have a lot of sworn retainers who, mostly for gameplay purposes, are also part of House Indoril, even if they're not actual Indoril themselves. Normal townspeople and such in Indoril lands are not Indoril in any way, they merely serve Indoril.
As far as I'm concerned, we can have all three stirrers; they should be easy to model, and a bit of variety is always nice. The same thing goes for the urns, though they are more complex models; I think we should focus on one design for now, but ideally having two or three to choose from would probably be preferable.
Polygons with soft edges sounds good. 3 and 6 sound like good base numbers, but you don't necessarily have to be too uniform about it. For example, the larger cup could be five-sided to represent the Grand Council; the union of five Houses. Or it could not.
On to your questions:
1. I think you could make the set fancier, though it does work as-is.
2. I think the drink should be heated.
3. I like the idea of built-in cup rests.
As for your Deshaan concept, I think you've got the visuals down pretty well, but generally Deshaan plants should be pale rather than green. Even though it's a salt plain, it is fertile; plants don't grow there despite the conditions, but because they have adapted to the conditions and thrive in them.
As far as I'm concerned, we can have all three stirrers; they should be easy to model, and a bit of variety is always nice. The same thing goes for the urns, though they are more complex models; I think we should focus on one design for now, but ideally having two or three to choose from would probably be preferable.
Polygons with soft edges sounds good. 3 and 6 sound like good base numbers, but you don't necessarily have to be too uniform about it. For example, the larger cup could be five-sided to represent the Grand Council; the union of five Houses. Or it could not.
On to your questions:
1. I think you could make the set fancier, though it does work as-is.
2. I think the drink should be heated.
3. I like the idea of built-in cup rests.
As for your Deshaan concept, I think you've got the visuals down pretty well, but generally Deshaan plants should be pale rather than green. Even though it's a salt plain, it is fertile; plants don't grow there despite the conditions, but because they have adapted to the conditions and thrive in them.
Just some thoughts on the Velk brew concept rather than the concept art (which as always is amazing, 10Kaziem).
For religious purposes could the Velk brew be mixed with some physical remains of the ancestors? A pinch from the ash pits perhaps. Maybe original religious ceremonies ingested parts of the actual ancestors, in time Velk brew was made with a bit of their remains as it made it more potable; or the ingestion of remains could then be spread out over more people, a pinch in a brew goes a long way.
So, the Velk brew became an important thing in and of itself.
That's where its use amongst the Indoril comes from. The Indoril urns and jugs are analogous to what [url=http://loveisspeed.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/salt-cellar-by-ages.html?m=1]salt cellars[/url] used to be here. The object containing the Velk brew shouts to anyone who sees it that here is an important (devout) person.
In our world salt cellars would be the centrepiece of any well to do person's table, it screamed to any visitor: "Why yes, we have salt. We are rich. We are powerful"
For the Indoril a non-religious Velk brew container would be a way of demonstrating how devout they are. A centrepiece for any household, particularly where guests would see the container.
I guess that logiccally leads to loads of unique models though...
Anyway, just what sprang to mind as I was looking at this.
For religious purposes could the Velk brew be mixed with some physical remains of the ancestors? A pinch from the ash pits perhaps. Maybe original religious ceremonies ingested parts of the actual ancestors, in time Velk brew was made with a bit of their remains as it made it more potable; or the ingestion of remains could then be spread out over more people, a pinch in a brew goes a long way.
So, the Velk brew became an important thing in and of itself.
That's where its use amongst the Indoril comes from. The Indoril urns and jugs are analogous to what [url=http://loveisspeed.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/salt-cellar-by-ages.html?m=1]salt cellars[/url] used to be here. The object containing the Velk brew shouts to anyone who sees it that here is an important (devout) person.
In our world salt cellars would be the centrepiece of any well to do person's table, it screamed to any visitor: "Why yes, we have salt. We are rich. We are powerful"
For the Indoril a non-religious Velk brew container would be a way of demonstrating how devout they are. A centrepiece for any household, particularly where guests would see the container.
I guess that logiccally leads to loads of unique models though...
Anyway, just what sprang to mind as I was looking at this.
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ihavefivehat
- Member
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- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:39 am
Maybe you can take some inspiration from these ancient Chinese bronze vessels.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese ... nze+vessel
Many of them are tripodal, which goes with the Indoril preference for the number 3. And, as I recall, some Indoril urns added by TR already use textures taken (rather conspicuously) from Shang dynasty bronze.
https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese ... nze+vessel
Many of them are tripodal, which goes with the Indoril preference for the number 3. And, as I recall, some Indoril urns added by TR already use textures taken (rather conspicuously) from Shang dynasty bronze.
[/quote]Well, I had some time tonight, and I felt like trying my extremely rusty 3dmodeling skills. I made a bottle.
Yay!
Yay!
- Attachments
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- velkbottleweee.jpg
- A quick attempt at 3d modeling a bottle in Blender.
- (67.58 KiB) Downloaded 321 times
Oh, very nice. I think that bottle would look better with fewer sides, though; four or maybe five. Also, you may want to add additional bevels up the sides, as currently it looks like the bottle is supposed to be round.
I like your idea, Dragon32. I do think these sets should be treated as prized possessions, though actually having each set use unique models would naturally be impractical. There's no shortage of models in Morrowind which are supposed to represent unique objects whenever they're placed as it is.
Mixing the ashes of ancestors in the drink really deepens the significance of velk brew; I think for Indoril, who build so much on family and tradition, digesting their ancestors and thereby effectively becoming one with their ancestors seems very fitting.
Also, when entertaining company, allowing guests to take ones ancestors into themselves is a really strong sign of trust and respect. Conversely, considering that ancestors protect their descendants, it might also be a way of deterring betrayal. I can imagine possibly apocryphal stories of an Indoril sharing his ancestors with the lord of a lesser House, and the lord of the lesser House being unruly and betraying the Indoril, only to start coughing up blood as the ancestors he consumed take their vengeance upon him.
On which note, this topic really makes me think of [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/hanins-wake]Hanin's Wake[/url], which reads like a more sinister pre-Tribunal Daedric counterpart to the Velk brew drinking ceremony.
I like your idea, Dragon32. I do think these sets should be treated as prized possessions, though actually having each set use unique models would naturally be impractical. There's no shortage of models in Morrowind which are supposed to represent unique objects whenever they're placed as it is.
Mixing the ashes of ancestors in the drink really deepens the significance of velk brew; I think for Indoril, who build so much on family and tradition, digesting their ancestors and thereby effectively becoming one with their ancestors seems very fitting.
Also, when entertaining company, allowing guests to take ones ancestors into themselves is a really strong sign of trust and respect. Conversely, considering that ancestors protect their descendants, it might also be a way of deterring betrayal. I can imagine possibly apocryphal stories of an Indoril sharing his ancestors with the lord of a lesser House, and the lord of the lesser House being unruly and betraying the Indoril, only to start coughing up blood as the ancestors he consumed take their vengeance upon him.
On which note, this topic really makes me think of [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/hanins-wake]Hanin's Wake[/url], which reads like a more sinister pre-Tribunal Daedric counterpart to the Velk brew drinking ceremony.
The velkbottle looks a bit too much like the Ancient Dagoth Brandy. Maybe something with a longer neck. A tall skinny bottle would be interesting. And a mushroom shaped stopper would be cool. Also, look into making the glass transparent. One example of transparent glass is the in_dwe_pipe00_exp.
And I disagree with Gnomey about the number of sides. I'd say increase the number of sides a bit more to give it a more rounded feel. We want things to look a bit better, not so blocky. Of course there is a limit - so try to keep the number of faces down around 100-200.
And I disagree with Gnomey about the number of sides. I'd say increase the number of sides a bit more to give it a more rounded feel. We want things to look a bit better, not so blocky. Of course there is a limit - so try to keep the number of faces down around 100-200.
In a way I actually suggested more sides; specifically, four of five sides but [url=http://i00.i.aliimg.com/img/pb/718/399/889/889399718_655.jpg]bevelled[/url], so that in effect you have eight or ten (single bevel) or twelve or fifteen (double bevel) sides, alternating one wide side and one or two very narrow sides. That would be if we want to emphasize that the bottle is not supposed to be round, like flin and ancient Dagoth brandy, but multi-sided.
At the same time, on second look, I think that vertically the bottle is too bevelled. In the concept art the bottle has a very angular bulge to it which appears to be much less pronounced in the model. So some faces could either be removed or narrowed. That would further differentiate it from flin/ancient Dagoth brandy. Finally I think the flared lip could perhaps be made slightly taller to make it look more prominent, again as in the concept art and as opposed to flin/ancient Dagoth brandy.
At the same time, on second look, I think that vertically the bottle is too bevelled. In the concept art the bottle has a very angular bulge to it which appears to be much less pronounced in the model. So some faces could either be removed or narrowed. That would further differentiate it from flin/ancient Dagoth brandy. Finally I think the flared lip could perhaps be made slightly taller to make it look more prominent, again as in the concept art and as opposed to flin/ancient Dagoth brandy.
Have a minor update for the velk bottle. Would this look alright? It's got 8 sides, 4 big and 4 little.
Edit: while I'm on here, some loose sketches:
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velkmore1-553973599
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velkmore2-553973668
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velkmore3-553973680
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velkmore4-553973690
1 through 3 are just rough ideas, 4 is a watercolor painting that scanned weird, and which I will probably update later.
ALSO: any new commentary on velk brewing, please put in this thread: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24514 for lore or this one for the asset development: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=329413
Edit: while I'm on here, some loose sketches:
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velkmore1-553973599
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velkmore2-553973668
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velkmore3-553973680
http://kaziem.deviantart.com/art/Velkmore4-553973690
1 through 3 are just rough ideas, 4 is a watercolor painting that scanned weird, and which I will probably update later.
ALSO: any new commentary on velk brewing, please put in this thread: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24514 for lore or this one for the asset development: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=329413
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- velk bottle.jpg
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Largely as discussion fodder, a few out-of-present-bounds ideas: (note: I do not by any means find most of these to be in keeping with the personality of the Indoril or the lore, but would be interested to get some second opinions)
(The dermatology (probably by another in-game name) thing would add some inter-regional coherence as well as some extra content on both sides, which seems like it would make at least a good supplementary use.) (This does, however, mimic RL a bit too much for my taste; an expensive sweetener would very effectively accomplish the same)
Please pardon my abnormally abrasive writing style; I'm quite tired at the moment, so many of the "grace notes" that soften writing are more difficult to devise or evaluate than usual. (and to reiterate: I am not by any means of the opinion that all, or even most of these are good ideas. The two that I highlighted were merely the two that I found plausible.)
EDIT: This thread porbably belongs on Conceptualization
- Lubricant for an industrial process of some variety
- Perhaps, like honey, it has a crystaline form, but unlike honey, said form has some utility independent of its relationship to the liquid form (possibly an alternative to real-world clay when it's mid-transition, as it would remain solid once crystallized, and could be reheated to create something else.)
- Dermatological use (almost certainly exported more than imported. Maybe P:C could borrow the associated assets and "complete the loop" of having Cyrodiilic nobles partake of it) (Especially given that they're starting with Stirk, which has a vacationing upper class.)
- Bug trapping bait, especially given the increased size of bugs in much of Morrowind (could be exported) (Trappers catching the shepards' bugs could make for or be a part of some interesting stories for Dres and/or Telvanni)
- Bug luring for torture (cover recipient in nectar)
- Some old-timey execution method in which the executee is drowned in nectar
- Used in crystalline form to produce counterfeit Septims
- Aphrodisiac (though this purpose would admittedly rub some shoulders with Telvanni Bug Musk)
- Used to sweeten beverages (certainly among the least interesting suggestions so far, I'll admit)
- They could cause odd dreams to happen (which is an effect had by many RL plants, and debate over their meaning or clairvoyance.)
(The dermatology (probably by another in-game name) thing would add some inter-regional coherence as well as some extra content on both sides, which seems like it would make at least a good supplementary use.) (This does, however, mimic RL a bit too much for my taste; an expensive sweetener would very effectively accomplish the same)
Please pardon my abnormally abrasive writing style; I'm quite tired at the moment, so many of the "grace notes" that soften writing are more difficult to devise or evaluate than usual. (and to reiterate: I am not by any means of the opinion that all, or even most of these are good ideas. The two that I highlighted were merely the two that I found plausible.)
EDIT: This thread porbably belongs on Conceptualization
Those are some interesting ideas. They do seem to revolve around the idea of velk nectar being close to what we think of as "nectar" in real life, meaning it can be considered a food type item, and specifically something tasty and sweet.
So that brings up an interesting question:
What does velk nectar taste like?
So that brings up an interesting question:
What does velk nectar taste like?
Moved to conceptualization because Mangoes has a point.
There's a single central issue to almost all of those uses considering how we have been approaching Velk nectar so far: Velk nectar is used to produce a special brew the Indoril nobility imbibe, and as such is probably kept off-limits for other uses.
Now certainly there is some potential for poaching Velk for their nectar, and Velk may also not only be native to Indoril lands. At the same time, the way we're presenting the Indoril, they may be very proud and elitist, but only in a very specific way; they essentially show compassion to the poor while at the same time unwittingly walking all over them. So it's possible they hoard all the nectar to themselves with the reasoning that the simple devout commoner would only be confused by such a complex, delicate and esoteric brew, but it's equally possible that they set a token amount of the nectar aside to bestow upon the grateful masses, probably to a rather pointless end such as use in a specific ceremony.
Of the utilities you suggest, the sweeten beverage and cause weird dreams to happen ideas are already more-or-less the case. I like the dermatology idea, or something like it, but think that that's too similar to Telvanni bug musk as well: a major luxury export no doubt used by nobles in the west who probably do not want to ever hear the details of what it is and how it's produced.
For the most part, though, I do think I prefer Velk nectar having a highly specific utility as opposed to being a sort of cure-all, for one thing to make it seem more exclusive, but for another because I think we need to have a plant grown by Velothi commoners or slaves in Indoril fields which does have a fairly wide range of mundane utilities; it probably shouldn't primarily provide sustenance, as that would lessen the relative importance of saltrice. I think it should have the role of the Indoril multi-utility resource as opposed to Velk nectar. (Come to think of it, if one wanted to, one could draw a shaky parallel to Indoril society: the nobles who only know how to govern but govern(ed) well, and the versatile Velothi underclass that can do a bit of everything and support the society from below).
As to what it tastes like, I'd think complex and sweet, but I'm not sure if the taste would ever directly be described to the player in-game. As is often the case with Morrowind food, I sort of imagine it being a mixture of tasty and off-putting. Perhaps a bit like some tropical fruit/plants; a sweet scent much stronger than generally considered pleasant and sort of smelling overripe or even as though it's rotten.
There's a single central issue to almost all of those uses considering how we have been approaching Velk nectar so far: Velk nectar is used to produce a special brew the Indoril nobility imbibe, and as such is probably kept off-limits for other uses.
Now certainly there is some potential for poaching Velk for their nectar, and Velk may also not only be native to Indoril lands. At the same time, the way we're presenting the Indoril, they may be very proud and elitist, but only in a very specific way; they essentially show compassion to the poor while at the same time unwittingly walking all over them. So it's possible they hoard all the nectar to themselves with the reasoning that the simple devout commoner would only be confused by such a complex, delicate and esoteric brew, but it's equally possible that they set a token amount of the nectar aside to bestow upon the grateful masses, probably to a rather pointless end such as use in a specific ceremony.
Of the utilities you suggest, the sweeten beverage and cause weird dreams to happen ideas are already more-or-less the case. I like the dermatology idea, or something like it, but think that that's too similar to Telvanni bug musk as well: a major luxury export no doubt used by nobles in the west who probably do not want to ever hear the details of what it is and how it's produced.
For the most part, though, I do think I prefer Velk nectar having a highly specific utility as opposed to being a sort of cure-all, for one thing to make it seem more exclusive, but for another because I think we need to have a plant grown by Velothi commoners or slaves in Indoril fields which does have a fairly wide range of mundane utilities; it probably shouldn't primarily provide sustenance, as that would lessen the relative importance of saltrice. I think it should have the role of the Indoril multi-utility resource as opposed to Velk nectar. (Come to think of it, if one wanted to, one could draw a shaky parallel to Indoril society: the nobles who only know how to govern but govern(ed) well, and the versatile Velothi underclass that can do a bit of everything and support the society from below).
As to what it tastes like, I'd think complex and sweet, but I'm not sure if the taste would ever directly be described to the player in-game. As is often the case with Morrowind food, I sort of imagine it being a mixture of tasty and off-putting. Perhaps a bit like some tropical fruit/plants; a sweet scent much stronger than generally considered pleasant and sort of smelling overripe or even as though it's rotten.