We need some guidelines for how quests and dialogue are written, then turned into claims, then actually included in the game. This sticky should include (among other things):
- What does a quest need before it can be implemented in the CS
- Who can suggest and flesh out quest ideas
- Writing dialogue and such for quests
- Guidelines for how to write good dialogue
- How do you become a quester (a person who implements quests and things in the CS)
- How much leeway and creativity questers get when implementing quests
- Other things?
Suggestions, comments are welcome, particularly from people who actually know about quests and such. Also, if anyone knows any old stickies with good information, post a link to them.
Link to in progress google doc (in progress sticky is at the very bottom): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wKl ... sp=sharing
The current WIP is in that link, but right now the sticky thread looks like this:
Principles of Quests
i. A quest should be fun to play.
ii. You should have the option to fail the quest.
iii. Failing/succeeding should have consequences, ie multiple endings!
Principles of Faction plotlines
i. Faction needs to face an external threat
ii. Faction needs to face an internal conflict
iii. A supernatural element should be involved
Three things one should acknowledge before doing anything:
1) Combat in Morrowind is not fun. Woosh woosh hit woosh woosh hit. Repeat until insane. Apart from the fight against Dagoth Ur and Lorkhan’s heart there aren’t any real boss fights in the vanilla game. Fighting Almalexia/Imperfect/Hircine was about as fun as fighting a cave rat with 2000 hitpoints. Quests that are only about killing person X aren’t fun.
2) Fetching things is not fun. Being sent half the world away to find a missing item is tedious work. It doesn’t matter if the item’s a shipment of Sujamma or a lost artifact. Quests that are only about fetching item Y aren’t fun.
3) Escorting stupid NPCs a million miles through the wilderness is not fun. In this case the biggest challenge is often times provided by the AI (or lack thereof).
Most, if not all, quests both in Vanilla Morrowind and TR tend to center around one of these three quest archetypes. This is not a problem in itself, because there are many ways to flesh these out (more on that below). However, quests that are only about one of the un-fun concepts listed above should be avoided.
A few things that are fun when encountered in a quest:
1) Exploration. Discovering interesting/pretty places.
2) Conspiring. Lying to NPCs and being lied to by NPCs.
3) Solving (good, non-frustrating) puzzles.
4) Getting meaningful rewards. Not just gold.
5) Getting the impression that what you do has meaning. Have the NPCs react differently depending on different outcomes. After succeeding in a difficult quest you should be the talk of the town.
6) Witnessing showy scripting. The world of Morrowind is very static, so whenever a quest offers something cool and new to see, it’s a reason to play the quest in itself. Think teleportation magic, NPCs engaging in combat with one another, water levels rising, walls moving, lights going out, spells exploding, sound effects, etc..
7) Making choices. A pivotal moment where the player gets to make a choice in what direction the quest will go from there on out. Do I kill this person, or let them live? Do I address this important character politely, or insult them? Also, since there’s no proper “infamy†counter in Morrowind failing quests/being an evil character should be recognized via dialogue responses.
Some fine examples of TR quests that are fun:
Dead Marshes - Combat made fun with simple puzzle-solving. The lich Sabine is nigh-impossible to kill unless you kill her husband Reynard first and smash Sabine’s Locket.
Search for a Perfect Sword - Fetching things made fun with meaningful rewards. After finding and giving ‘the perfect sword’ to Anirwen he will become a follower for the player.
Coladia Nelus' Stalker - Escorting made fun with conspiring / puzzle-solving. The player escorts and betrays/traps the stalker to either in a Velothi tower or a ship. This quest also features some really showy scripting.
Things to watch out for in a quest
Words that do NOT belong in dialogue whatsoever!
Quest: An NPC should never use that word. It should be a favor or a task or something, or trekking in the wilderness, but they should NEVER talk about actual quests. The ONLY time the word quest should be used in game is if you see it in book writings, and even then, those should be used sparingly.
(This is acceptable)
i.e. “I began my quest to figure out what specific ingredient(s) causes Mazte to taste like rat piss,â€Â
(This is not acceptable)
NOT: “I was questing over near the ashlands when I noticed…â€Â
And again, both these examples are used in the context of reading out of a book. There is NO acceptable way that an NPC will ever use the word quest.
I’m tired of talking to TR NPCs and hearing them say something along the lines of, “be careful questing out in this area†or “I always bring a raincoat whenever I go questing in case it rains.â€Â
The colon This may not be an actual word, but I felt I should list this here anyway. Under no circumstances should an NPC have a colon ( : ) in their dialogue. This goes with books and text as well. There will never be a reason to use a colon. If you think you have to, use a semi colon, but never a full one.
Creating an unique topic
Make sure that when you’re implementing a quest and you need to create a new topic, make sure that topic is unique! If your topic is something simple, there’s a high possibility that it’ll match another quest with the same topic. Should that happen, both quests will not work right and the topic text won’t be highlighted.
A prime example is the “help me†topic that two of our quests already have. Because of this, neither quest works right and the player is unable to click the topic. Furthermore, this is also a topic within an LGNPC mod (forget which one,) and so will break that quest as well for the same reasons. Therefore, it is VERY important that when you create new topics to make sure that they’re unique. This is especially important when factoring in the other province mods and realizing that there’s going to be a thousand or so new topics.
Understanding the Greetings Tab
Greetings 0: Npc is alarmed
Greetings 1: Force greetings and quests where it doesn't matter if the NPC is a criminal or vampire etc.
Greetings 2: Player is a vampire/player is nude
Greetings 3: Traitors to the Morag Tong
Greetings 4: Crime and disease
Greetings 5: Quests
Greetings 6: Factions
Greetings 7: Classes, Endgame, Slaves
Greetings 8: Clothes (general greetings concerning how player is dressed)
Greetings 9: Locations.
When adding greetings, there are really only three of the 9 possible 'Greetings' topics which you should be adding to, without a very clear reason as to your deviation.
Greeting 7: Generic local dialogue, of the kind created in an NPC claim. If your quest needs to add some non quest related greetings, or modify the dialogue of an existing NPC claim, such greetings will be found here.
Greeting 1: Greetings which are known to be prompted by a ForceGreeting should go here. ForceGreetings are 'once only' events, so if the intended greeting gets hijacked by a Diseased, Unclothed or Vampire greeting, it may well break your quest. Therefore ForceGreetings, or any others which should not be filtered out in favour of the above, should go high up in the Greetings chart.
Greeting 6: Non-quest greetings that belongs to an important faction NPC, or are shared among NPCs in a certain faction (location), go here. Any quest-related greetings should still go in Greeting 5 though.
Greeting 5: All other quest related greetings should be placed here.
Quest & Dialogue Guidelines [Quests and Dialogue]
Moderator: Lead Developers
Quest & Dialogue Guidelines [Quests and Dialogue]
Last edited by 10Kaziem on Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I just stumbled across this, and I thought it may be helpful to write some of my thoughts and suggestions about it. And no, Im not perfect in what Im gonna write here, but I try my best^^
First of all, quest designers should really know what they are doing, what is lore-conformable and what isnt. Im not very long in this forum but, as how I see it, one of the most important things in TR is the conformity of the mod and vanilla MW in lore and atmosphere.
I would divide the quest section into misc-quests and faction quests. Misc quests can be developped relatively free, while factions are designed completely from scratch (or re-interpreted) and after that they are filled with questlines, then the questlines are filled with actual quests.
The reason I write this is the following: Lets say someone designs a quest for the fighters guild which involves a guildhall in town xy - completely to the last line of dialogue. A few days later we write in a fighters guild thread and realize that because of special historic reasons there cant be a guildhall in this town - so the quest designer spent a lot of energy in a quest that cannot be used in that form.
So the way we should go for future faction-quest designers is at first that they can make raw designs of possible quests, only short, to make notes for memorizing those later, and to participate in the faction-discussions until the discussion comes to an end (The end would possibly look like "This and that vibe has this faction, this story do we want to tell. Those particular questlines, given from those particular questgivers, are the way we are gonna do that. Attention: This is the point we fill a questline with the raw designs of actual quests and look at the outcome. Does it work, does it have a good, flowing arc of suspense without logical mistakes or other odd things?). Then the actual quests are designed to the last line of dialogue.
Well, I know this sounds like a lot of work. But I made that mistake too, I raw designed that marcus antellius-questline, and the more I participated in the discussion on the imperial cult, the more mistakes I found (and find) in it, together with the fact that it simply exceeds the limits of the context. So now I concentrate on the discussion and the lore, until it is time to make the particular questlines.
First of all, quest designers should really know what they are doing, what is lore-conformable and what isnt. Im not very long in this forum but, as how I see it, one of the most important things in TR is the conformity of the mod and vanilla MW in lore and atmosphere.
I would divide the quest section into misc-quests and faction quests. Misc quests can be developped relatively free, while factions are designed completely from scratch (or re-interpreted) and after that they are filled with questlines, then the questlines are filled with actual quests.
The reason I write this is the following: Lets say someone designs a quest for the fighters guild which involves a guildhall in town xy - completely to the last line of dialogue. A few days later we write in a fighters guild thread and realize that because of special historic reasons there cant be a guildhall in this town - so the quest designer spent a lot of energy in a quest that cannot be used in that form.
So the way we should go for future faction-quest designers is at first that they can make raw designs of possible quests, only short, to make notes for memorizing those later, and to participate in the faction-discussions until the discussion comes to an end (The end would possibly look like "This and that vibe has this faction, this story do we want to tell. Those particular questlines, given from those particular questgivers, are the way we are gonna do that. Attention: This is the point we fill a questline with the raw designs of actual quests and look at the outcome. Does it work, does it have a good, flowing arc of suspense without logical mistakes or other odd things?). Then the actual quests are designed to the last line of dialogue.
Well, I know this sounds like a lot of work. But I made that mistake too, I raw designed that marcus antellius-questline, and the more I participated in the discussion on the imperial cult, the more mistakes I found (and find) in it, together with the fact that it simply exceeds the limits of the context. So now I concentrate on the discussion and the lore, until it is time to make the particular questlines.
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?
Newbie chiming in here--
Perhaps we should have a discussion on the difference between one-shot quests and more long and involved questlines? IMO, both are needed to make the world feel well-balanced and fleshed out.
Also, how do we want to handle questlines that may involve or make mention to other questlines. Example: in vanilla where you can either be the spy from Hlaalu or the guy killing the spy from Redoran. Other example: three different NPCs have a quest involving killing or stealing from those guys in Balmora's Council Club. IMO, this is good design, but could quickly turn into a clusterf%$# if we're not careful.
Finally, I'd like to see somewhere a summary of all current quests and questlines in TR, so we can make judgements about what areas (or factions, or other lore elements) need more quests, and where there might be possible interactions between quests (for better or for worse).
Perhaps we should have a discussion on the difference between one-shot quests and more long and involved questlines? IMO, both are needed to make the world feel well-balanced and fleshed out.
Also, how do we want to handle questlines that may involve or make mention to other questlines. Example: in vanilla where you can either be the spy from Hlaalu or the guy killing the spy from Redoran. Other example: three different NPCs have a quest involving killing or stealing from those guys in Balmora's Council Club. IMO, this is good design, but could quickly turn into a clusterf%$# if we're not careful.
Finally, I'd like to see somewhere a summary of all current quests and questlines in TR, so we can make judgements about what areas (or factions, or other lore elements) need more quests, and where there might be possible interactions between quests (for better or for worse).
-
Yeti
- Lead Developer
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Ideally, we should design quests with a clear understanding of what purpose they serve in telling Morrowind's larger story. What themes and issues do they highlight about a local area's current events, conflicts and culture? Generally, we should avoid telling stories that could unfold anywhere and focus on ones that immerse the player in our world.
-Head of NPCs: [url=http://www.shotn.com/forums/]Skyrim: Home of the Nords[/url]
Nope, I didn't get around to this thread yesterday, though I did post in some other guideline threads.
I think the distinction between individual quests and questlines is a good one to make. Pretty much as NathanJ writes, questlines require an additional step of figuring out the general plot, flow and themes of the questline before figuring out the individual quests in the questline.
I do think we can have some misc quests that are really, well, miscellaneous, in the vein of the naked Nord quests, but agree that the majority should focus on local and general themes and events.
As a very rough outline:
-research, which involves reading up on what is planned for the region, (should be easier when we start making proper use of region documents), the faction that controls the region, any important factions or individuals within the region, and of course the general themes of Morrowind.
-if a questline, figure out the questline. What is the story we are trying to tell, and how can we best tell it? Split the story up into quest-sized packets.
-it would probably be a good idea to figure out the involved (quest/questline specific) NPCs as an additional step, especially for questlines.
-figure out the individual quests.
-figure out what dialogue needs to be written and what scripts are needed.
-ideally write all the dialogue and scripts.
-create and put up the quest claims.
-the rest is done the typical way through the claim system.
I think the distinction between individual quests and questlines is a good one to make. Pretty much as NathanJ writes, questlines require an additional step of figuring out the general plot, flow and themes of the questline before figuring out the individual quests in the questline.
I do think we can have some misc quests that are really, well, miscellaneous, in the vein of the naked Nord quests, but agree that the majority should focus on local and general themes and events.
As a very rough outline:
-research, which involves reading up on what is planned for the region, (should be easier when we start making proper use of region documents), the faction that controls the region, any important factions or individuals within the region, and of course the general themes of Morrowind.
-if a questline, figure out the questline. What is the story we are trying to tell, and how can we best tell it? Split the story up into quest-sized packets.
-it would probably be a good idea to figure out the involved (quest/questline specific) NPCs as an additional step, especially for questlines.
-figure out the individual quests.
-figure out what dialogue needs to be written and what scripts are needed.
-ideally write all the dialogue and scripts.
-create and put up the quest claims.
-the rest is done the typical way through the claim system.
This is looking good so far, but for faction questlines I'm not entirely sure what is meant by 'A supernatural element should be involved'. It's a rather vague line, and if I understand it correctly I'm not sure I agree. Certainly, questlines shouldn't be entirely mundane. (Hlaalu faction questline: there are errors in the Hlaalu Council Company bookkeeping. Please go through twenty quests spread out over Hlaalu territory to interrogate NPCs and get to the bottom of the bookkeeping errors).
At the same time, however, whereas the Morrowind mainquest is devoted to exploring the workings and lore of Morrowind and contains all sorts of fantastical elements, faction questlines tend to focus on intrigue and political conflict. With the god, king, farmer and dog analogy, the Morrowind questline focuses on gods, or the world altering developments; the faction questlines on the 'kings', or the major shifts within the world; the misc questlines on the farmer, or the lot of the commoner within the world; with the fine details ('dog') being fleshed out through dialogue and worldbuilding. (If I remember the analogy correctly).
At the same time, however, whereas the Morrowind mainquest is devoted to exploring the workings and lore of Morrowind and contains all sorts of fantastical elements, faction questlines tend to focus on intrigue and political conflict. With the god, king, farmer and dog analogy, the Morrowind questline focuses on gods, or the world altering developments; the faction questlines on the 'kings', or the major shifts within the world; the misc questlines on the farmer, or the lot of the commoner within the world; with the fine details ('dog') being fleshed out through dialogue and worldbuilding. (If I remember the analogy correctly).
It might be useful at this place to say that I have begun working out a global plan for our faction questlines. I have said this in my showcase, but I think I should carry this into this discussion^^
I will post the plan later when I finished it, and I think it has a very practical approach that can deliver relatively quick results
EDIT: Wait, thats for the guidelines O.O okay, Ill post it into the right thread then
I will post the plan later when I finished it, and I think it has a very practical approach that can deliver relatively quick results
EDIT: Wait, thats for the guidelines O.O okay, Ill post it into the right thread then
Why cant I simply use an Elder scroll to make my Clocks go slower?