Hi, sorry I stopped posting progress but there wasn't enough progress to justify bumping and my previous posts still stand on the current plan and situation. There are two things that keep me from stating this interior as complete:
1) There is a door that leads to nowhere in the back of the storage area, the current plan is to either connect it to interior i5-57 which is being worked on by Wulf or create an small office. I haven't seen Wulf since he claimed his interior, however, so I have been unable to contact him on his plans. I would prefer to connect it to i5-57 but if you think it would be better to just finish the interior I'll get to work on the office.
2) There is a gate in the storage area which needs to be scripted to open and close. I haven't had success with my own codes (knowing little about the Morrowind syntax and dialogue) so I'd need help to get that working properly in a reasonable time. My current plan is to have a guard behind the gate which will open the gate with a topic. The gate will close after a short period of time. I also added a keyhole next to the guard which can be used with a key to open the gate if you kill the guards inside. This all might be too complex and it might be better to just have the gate open by clicking on it but I'll leave that up to you.
Other than that the interior is pretty done, I would probably want to take some more looks at it and check rotations but as it stands I would probably need to be pointed out issues if there are any.
i5-60-Red
Moderator: Lead Developers
First, I want to apologize for not responding to your questions sooner.
The place looks good. Since we are uncertain at this time where and how these interiors will be used, I'd say keep it a self-contained interior. Meaning, don't plan on it to link up with any other interiors.
Here are some suggestions.
1) Don't wait for Wulf about that door. I would put a new door at the top of that ramp, and make that area the proprietors room. But please note that the large exterior banners, on both sides of that opening, have very large areas of influence. Anything placed behind them is inaccessible to the player. The amulet and some of the weapons hung on the wall are being blocked.
When you playtest this, and you should, be sure to pickup everything, and empty all chests (checking that the contents are what you intended). Also be sure that it is easy to get everywhere by walking, unless you've purposely blocked some area.
2)The Gate. You do not need to worry about writing scripts. The only thing we ask is that the activator and the gate get new ID names (TR_i5-60_button, TR_i5-60_gate). Make both of them activators. Also remove the NPC, leave that to the NPCer.
3) [ON Hold - see bottom comment] There is one big problem that I came across, and that's the straw on the floor in the Tavern. The straw has transparent areas that, when overlapped, cause flickering. Remove all the overlapping straw pieces. If you want more straw density in an area, I'd suggest scaling the straw down to fit more into one area.
4) The barrel-table. I like the idea and have no real problem with it bleeding into the floor. However, I am a bit confused as to why its right next to a perfectly 'good' table. I'd move it over into the corner where that empty table is. Remove that table - move the benches to the middle table. And make it look like 2 people are using the barrel-table (put 2 stools around it).
5) Upstairs in the tavern. That walkway to the Lofts is too narrow. I suggest removing that one beam, that is right in front of the doors. This will also give you room to move the doormarkers to be 100% inside the interior. Doormarkers should not bleed into anything; otherwise the player may get stuck. However, doormarkers can bleed into other doormarkers. This will also allow you to position that crane into a more useful position. Maybe add a hooked rope (furn_rope_hook) to it.
6) In the storage area there are some overlapping issues with that chimney. See if you can fix that. You can see it flicker as you come down the ramp.
7) Also, is the player supposed to be able to get up to the crates above the dried fish? I'm not talking about using the ladder, but by levitation. If an High Elf tries to levitate over to the crates, their head pops out of the interior. (Wish the engine worked better). To fix this just lower that beam. However, if you want the player to use telekinesis then add an additional beam to prevent the player from levitating over there.
8) Finally, when the player enters the storage area, and tries to go up the ramp on the right - the way is somewhat blocked. I found it quite difficult to get over to that ramp.
I've looked over the strawheap meshes and do not like them. The collision mesh is way too high, and some of them may flicker on the their own (without overlapping). I'll need to do some testing on these. I'll see what I can do with them today.
The place looks good. Since we are uncertain at this time where and how these interiors will be used, I'd say keep it a self-contained interior. Meaning, don't plan on it to link up with any other interiors.
Here are some suggestions.
1) Don't wait for Wulf about that door. I would put a new door at the top of that ramp, and make that area the proprietors room. But please note that the large exterior banners, on both sides of that opening, have very large areas of influence. Anything placed behind them is inaccessible to the player. The amulet and some of the weapons hung on the wall are being blocked.
When you playtest this, and you should, be sure to pickup everything, and empty all chests (checking that the contents are what you intended). Also be sure that it is easy to get everywhere by walking, unless you've purposely blocked some area.
2)The Gate. You do not need to worry about writing scripts. The only thing we ask is that the activator and the gate get new ID names (TR_i5-60_button, TR_i5-60_gate). Make both of them activators. Also remove the NPC, leave that to the NPCer.
3) [ON Hold - see bottom comment] There is one big problem that I came across, and that's the straw on the floor in the Tavern. The straw has transparent areas that, when overlapped, cause flickering. Remove all the overlapping straw pieces. If you want more straw density in an area, I'd suggest scaling the straw down to fit more into one area.
4) The barrel-table. I like the idea and have no real problem with it bleeding into the floor. However, I am a bit confused as to why its right next to a perfectly 'good' table. I'd move it over into the corner where that empty table is. Remove that table - move the benches to the middle table. And make it look like 2 people are using the barrel-table (put 2 stools around it).
5) Upstairs in the tavern. That walkway to the Lofts is too narrow. I suggest removing that one beam, that is right in front of the doors. This will also give you room to move the doormarkers to be 100% inside the interior. Doormarkers should not bleed into anything; otherwise the player may get stuck. However, doormarkers can bleed into other doormarkers. This will also allow you to position that crane into a more useful position. Maybe add a hooked rope (furn_rope_hook) to it.
6) In the storage area there are some overlapping issues with that chimney. See if you can fix that. You can see it flicker as you come down the ramp.
7) Also, is the player supposed to be able to get up to the crates above the dried fish? I'm not talking about using the ladder, but by levitation. If an High Elf tries to levitate over to the crates, their head pops out of the interior. (Wish the engine worked better). To fix this just lower that beam. However, if you want the player to use telekinesis then add an additional beam to prevent the player from levitating over there.
8) Finally, when the player enters the storage area, and tries to go up the ramp on the right - the way is somewhat blocked. I found it quite difficult to get over to that ramp.
I've looked over the strawheap meshes and do not like them. The collision mesh is way too high, and some of them may flicker on the their own (without overlapping). I'll need to do some testing on these. I'll see what I can do with them today.
The strawheap(s) primary flickering issue is only visible if you position the item use "F". Clearly this was not done with this interior. So, I will be updating the collision box, but it shouldn't have any significant effect here.
There still is the problem when transparent items are overlapped. The main spot I noticed the flickering is to the left of the storage door (as viewed from the main door), just behind the misc_com_bottle_11, in the rounded corner. If you look at the straw in that corner, in the CS, and rotate around, you will see parts of the straw appear and disappear. This is the overlapping that needs to be fixed. It is also evident in front of the misc_com_bottle_12 (the brown jug).
Suggestions to fix this
1) Remove the straw and redo. Paying attention to whether the visible sections overlap or not. This may be the fastest.
2) Go in-game and look around for the flickering. Its tough to see in the CS, but will usually pop-out at you in-game. Note trouble areas and then fix in the CS.
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There are also a lot of unnecessary pieces in these cells. In particular, most of the items below the "Storage" cell can be removed. So try to clean up as best as possible.
There still is the problem when transparent items are overlapped. The main spot I noticed the flickering is to the left of the storage door (as viewed from the main door), just behind the misc_com_bottle_11, in the rounded corner. If you look at the straw in that corner, in the CS, and rotate around, you will see parts of the straw appear and disappear. This is the overlapping that needs to be fixed. It is also evident in front of the misc_com_bottle_12 (the brown jug).
Suggestions to fix this
1) Remove the straw and redo. Paying attention to whether the visible sections overlap or not. This may be the fastest.
2) Go in-game and look around for the flickering. Its tough to see in the CS, but will usually pop-out at you in-game. Note trouble areas and then fix in the CS.
------------
There are also a lot of unnecessary pieces in these cells. In particular, most of the items below the "Storage" cell can be removed. So try to clean up as best as possible.
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sasquatch2o
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The barrel table is there because it is for gambling. The edges of the barrel catch the dice. I think I had two games on it. One where u find an object under cup or short string and very common dice if I remember correct. The bar is also often packed so the is not enough seating and table space. I realize the walkway in lift is too narrow the wall needs to be moved back slightly. The ramp in storage area is likely difficult to use because of all the rubble this can easily be fixed with one of those invisible blue walkways(not sure what they are called. The hay was layered so there are multiple stacks of different hay that create a look of depth and randomness. You'll have to get rid of either that first layer or lessen the # of overlapping piles i've bled through the floor. I'd also prefer you get a working laser in there to get up the loft. Last thing, I think, the back storage area with hanging fish and overhead storage wasn't meant to be accessible,I think overhead area is too small and area below is just to look at.
Remember the upper area of back room is for hay storage. Lower area is for secure storage and food as originally described. There is a guard back there who also keeps records and receives deliveries and payments. He should be very strong due to all the loot in chests or maybe have a second guard standing outside the gate. Talk to the guard and the other might walk over and flip the switch. When player leaves room it should close again.
Also my intention was that the folks here would be really jaded and tough adventurers so if player attacks one only they would go hostile unless someone is murdered.
Oh the axe stuck in the table is by whoever put it there.
Remember the upper area of back room is for hay storage. Lower area is for secure storage and food as originally described. There is a guard back there who also keeps records and receives deliveries and payments. He should be very strong due to all the loot in chests or maybe have a second guard standing outside the gate. Talk to the guard and the other might walk over and flip the switch. When player leaves room it should close again.
Also my intention was that the folks here would be really jaded and tough adventurers so if player attacks one only they would go hostile unless someone is murdered.
Oh the axe stuck in the table is by whoever put it there.
my opinion.
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Miraclestone
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- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:52 am
Hello to you both, thanks for the speedy response and details on what needs to be fixed!
1) The straw is something that I had issues with to begin with; I liked the idea thematically but it never seemed to look organic enough or work correctly. I thought I fixed most of the issues concerning placement and flickering but apparently I haven't. I'm going to do as you recommended and remove the straw to start over. As I stated I liked the idea but I think I need to handle the placement better in the future.
2) I have been checking the interior ingame the whole time while working on it and didn't notice any of the flickering you pointed out. It wasn't until I rotated the objects you requested in the CS that I saw it. Seems like we are experiencing different levels of flickering ingame. For instance, I was having flickering issues with the chimney ingame but then I got it to a point where it wasn't happening anymore. I am going to make a fresh install of Morrowind to see if that helps at all; the current install is clean of modifications and mods but it could have been changed somehow.
3) I'll leave the gate as is and delete the NPC that I was using to fiddle around with the code. Part of me wanted to figure it out myself but things are likely to get busier for me soon and I better just leave it to someone that can do it in a reasonable time.
4) I plan on adding the ladder back if possible but much like the gate it might be better left to someone more knowledgeable than me. The upper back section of the storage area is no longer going to be storing hay and is now a doorway to another room in the fort. The stored hay will be in piles around the main room in the storage area instead.
5) I would have preferred to have the back door in the storage area connect with i5-57 but I understand the headache it might cause that way. Only reason I suggested it was because the idea of dead end modular sections in a fort is very nonstrategic. The fortress is also in snowy mountains so avalanches and cave ins would be an issues the architects would have in mind while building it. I'll start to work on the office though because I've had this interior for a while and would rather get it finished than wait on it any longer.
With those points I think I'm pretty clear on the current plan and things that still need to be fixed. As I stated earlier things are likely to get busier for me so I might end up needing to drop the claim and pick up another when life permits it. I plan on getting as much done before that date, however. Thanks again for the responces.
1) The straw is something that I had issues with to begin with; I liked the idea thematically but it never seemed to look organic enough or work correctly. I thought I fixed most of the issues concerning placement and flickering but apparently I haven't. I'm going to do as you recommended and remove the straw to start over. As I stated I liked the idea but I think I need to handle the placement better in the future.
2) I have been checking the interior ingame the whole time while working on it and didn't notice any of the flickering you pointed out. It wasn't until I rotated the objects you requested in the CS that I saw it. Seems like we are experiencing different levels of flickering ingame. For instance, I was having flickering issues with the chimney ingame but then I got it to a point where it wasn't happening anymore. I am going to make a fresh install of Morrowind to see if that helps at all; the current install is clean of modifications and mods but it could have been changed somehow.
3) I'll leave the gate as is and delete the NPC that I was using to fiddle around with the code. Part of me wanted to figure it out myself but things are likely to get busier for me soon and I better just leave it to someone that can do it in a reasonable time.
4) I plan on adding the ladder back if possible but much like the gate it might be better left to someone more knowledgeable than me. The upper back section of the storage area is no longer going to be storing hay and is now a doorway to another room in the fort. The stored hay will be in piles around the main room in the storage area instead.
5) I would have preferred to have the back door in the storage area connect with i5-57 but I understand the headache it might cause that way. Only reason I suggested it was because the idea of dead end modular sections in a fort is very nonstrategic. The fortress is also in snowy mountains so avalanches and cave ins would be an issues the architects would have in mind while building it. I'll start to work on the office though because I've had this interior for a while and would rather get it finished than wait on it any longer.
With those points I think I'm pretty clear on the current plan and things that still need to be fixed. As I stated earlier things are likely to get busier for me so I might end up needing to drop the claim and pick up another when life permits it. I plan on getting as much done before that date, however. Thanks again for the responces.
Looks like you have a good solid plan.
You probably don't need to reinstall anything. The flickering/overlapping issue is a function of the distance you are from the 2 surfaces. To show what I mean, do the following in the CS.
1) Place one of the tr_furn_com_rugs onto a flat floor surface, using "F" once.
2) While close to the rug, rotate around. You'll see that it looks good.
3) Now zoom out and rotate around. You should see it flicker. If not, zoom out some more.
The rug is just a flat plane. It is made so that its height above the floor, when "F"'d into place, is 0.05. In most interiors, this should be far enough. If this rug was placed outside somewhere, then it would probably need to be raised.
The problem is with the MW graphics engine. When it goes to draw a scene, it calculates the distance from the player to each object in the scene. In fact, it calculates the distance to each triangular face of each object. It then decides what to show based on that distance. Closer objects get preference. As you move further and further away, round off errors take over and the system thinks the 2 surfaces (the floor and the rug) are at the same distance. Now the engine gets confused. Does it show the rug or does it show the floor. It handles this by sometimes showing the rug, and sometimes showing the floor, this is the flickering problem.
The 2 surfaces of the chimney, that I can see flickering, are less than 0.05 away from each other. There may be more surfaces like this in that chimney, but the one side that can be viewed from the end of the hallway (by the gate) is the only issue that needs to be fixed. The player can not get far enough away from those other surfaces to see the flickering.
As for joining this interior with the other interiors here, I agree 100% with your reasoning. But since we don't know where this will be going, or even how the layout of interiors will be (maybe i5-57 won't be next to this interior) I think it best to keep them separate for now. In fact, I'm not even sure that there will be room behind the tavern for the storage room - but if that's the case, it should be easy to convert the storage room into a basement.
Once the layout is finalized, then we can always repost these interiors to get them connected if desired.
You probably don't need to reinstall anything. The flickering/overlapping issue is a function of the distance you are from the 2 surfaces. To show what I mean, do the following in the CS.
1) Place one of the tr_furn_com_rugs onto a flat floor surface, using "F" once.
2) While close to the rug, rotate around. You'll see that it looks good.
3) Now zoom out and rotate around. You should see it flicker. If not, zoom out some more.
The rug is just a flat plane. It is made so that its height above the floor, when "F"'d into place, is 0.05. In most interiors, this should be far enough. If this rug was placed outside somewhere, then it would probably need to be raised.
The problem is with the MW graphics engine. When it goes to draw a scene, it calculates the distance from the player to each object in the scene. In fact, it calculates the distance to each triangular face of each object. It then decides what to show based on that distance. Closer objects get preference. As you move further and further away, round off errors take over and the system thinks the 2 surfaces (the floor and the rug) are at the same distance. Now the engine gets confused. Does it show the rug or does it show the floor. It handles this by sometimes showing the rug, and sometimes showing the floor, this is the flickering problem.
The 2 surfaces of the chimney, that I can see flickering, are less than 0.05 away from each other. There may be more surfaces like this in that chimney, but the one side that can be viewed from the end of the hallway (by the gate) is the only issue that needs to be fixed. The player can not get far enough away from those other surfaces to see the flickering.
As for joining this interior with the other interiors here, I agree 100% with your reasoning. But since we don't know where this will be going, or even how the layout of interiors will be (maybe i5-57 won't be next to this interior) I think it best to keep them separate for now. In fact, I'm not even sure that there will be room behind the tavern for the storage room - but if that's the case, it should be easy to convert the storage room into a basement.
Once the layout is finalized, then we can always repost these interiors to get them connected if desired.
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Miraclestone
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Thanks for the run down on flickering in the Morrowind engine, some of what you said I didn't know already. But to be clear I wasn't saying I didn't know what caused flickering I was saying my ingame Morrowind wasn't showing any flickering in the places you pointed out. I HAD seen flickering on the chimney and some of the hay but after adjusting it I thought I fixed the issue. When I rotate them in the CS I do notice the flickering but when I walk down the ramp the chimney isn't flickering for me. My concern is if I am not flickering ingame then that could be a problem with putting out work in the future.
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Miraclestone
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Miraclestone
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Miraclestone
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Updated. I'm not happy with the amount that has changed between the last update and now; lots of back tracking creatively and real life problems. I'm going to try and focus more on getting tangible progress from now on rather than obsessing about getting things perfect as I have been for months now. I'm planning on putting out a better update soon so hopefully I'll have more to share by then.
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Miraclestone
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Sorry for the lack of replies, I haven't had a lot of mental bandwidth for TR for the last two months and let it slip. Those troubles are hopefully out of the way though and I'll have more time to invest in the project again. I'd REALLY like to finish this claim; I've had it for a long time and haven't made as much progress as I would like. Good news is that the interiors "...red-Backsection" and "...red-Office" are coming along. They shouldn't be as detailed as the tavern and storage areas are so I don't think it will take me as long as it did for those ones. I'll try to get some solid work done on the next update, ideally will want the entire Office if I can manage it.
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Miraclestone
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I haven't posted here in a while, haven't been following the forum overhaul very much and didn't realize until recently we were expected to continue to update on the archive (I might not even be right about this). As always progress is slow, I put about 10 hours a week into the project but holding the claim to a high standard while still learning things can hold back finishing the claim quickly.
The good news is its basically just detail work from this point on; my 'lofty' ideas about what this claim should be have been achieved from a architecture standpoint and I just need to decorate (I still need to cave in one of the hallways in "TR_i5-60-Red_BROKENSECTION"). I really like how the Office came out and work on the interior has been productive.
The good news is its basically just detail work from this point on; my 'lofty' ideas about what this claim should be have been achieved from a architecture standpoint and I just need to decorate (I still need to cave in one of the hallways in "TR_i5-60-Red_BROKENSECTION"). I really like how the Office came out and work on the interior has been productive.
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Wow, impressive work, I really like how this is coming along. 
Updating here is indeed preferable. There is always the concern of posts here flying under the radar, but I do check by frequently, and there may (I'll certainly advocate it) be a push to get the interiors in reviewing here reviewed soon, so hopefully Stryker or some other reviewer(s) will be coming round before long.
Updating here is indeed preferable. There is always the concern of posts here flying under the radar, but I do check by frequently, and there may (I'll certainly advocate it) be a push to get the interiors in reviewing here reviewed soon, so hopefully Stryker or some other reviewer(s) will be coming round before long.
Miraclestone, I see that you've logged in recently.
By the chance that you come across this again, are you perhaps still interested in this claim?
By the chance that you come across this again, are you perhaps still interested in this claim?
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
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Miraclestone
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Hi RyanS, I really wish I had the time to keep working on this but admittedly I haven't touched the file in months. I'd like to keep working on it whenever I have an hour or two to spare but if there is a lack of interior claims to go around it would probably be best if I relinquish it and allow someone more committed to take over. At the rate I've been taking on this it will probably not be finished for quite a while.
Thanks for the response. Currently we're running somewhat low on claims, though we just put together some new plans to get a lot of new ones up within the next 1-2 months. And, since this claim is low-priority, I would be fine with letting you keep it for a while longer.
I'll just say it's your call.
I'll just say it's your call.
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
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Miraclestone
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How about you put it up and see if anyone bites, I can always pick up a different one or reclaim it if its still available when I have more time. I think it would do the claim good to have a fresh perspective as well, I've had it for a LONG time and feel the tunnel vision. If its still unclaimed in accouple of months I'll finish the job but since its a dry spell as you said, it wouldnt be fair to hold onto work when there could be people who want to finish it.