Natural Armors

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:11 pm

Lessen the angle of the top ones to 45 degrees and curve them a bit, or something. However, the shield is awesome.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:36 pm

@Morden: WOW!!!

Indoril: I do think the upright parts of the pauldrons could be shrunk a bit, and maybe the ends curved outwards. That would nicely tie in with the Ordinator armour, too.

However, as for the chuzei helmet ... I dunno. I know it's unused, but ... it makes peoble look like they wear the front part of a space ship as a helmet, plus, it makes them appear kinda neckless, and overall more like Protoss or something than fantasy people.

Not to put even more work on you, Vorrheis, but I think Indoril deserves a new, and a bit more elegant, helmet style.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 7:38 pm

Sorry guys, but it's not my call. These belong to House Indoril and that is Nazz's baby. Everything was done from concept art, so design issues must be taken up with Nazz. If you convince him that changes are necessary, he will notify me.
As for a more elegant helmet, I'll be making an Indoril Master's helm once I get the concept art.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:15 pm

I'm almost done with a new little bug. It's a passive creature and is a source of chitin. I call it a tumres beetle. I just made that name up, and am open to suggestions.
I should have this thing and the watchman's armor done either late tonight or sometime tommorrow.

[url]http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/images/Vorrheis/tumres_beetle.jpg[/url]

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 9:37 pm

The texture might be a bit darker.

Name suggestions:

Tarn bug, Yeu beetle, Orada beetle, Ternice bug, Stone Lice

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:18 am

Here's the Watchman Armor. I went with Ornada beetle for the source creature. I added the 'n' on accident, but if it isn't lore based, I'm gonna run with it (otherwise, I'd have to rename textures and re-apply them). Anyway, the bug will be up tomorrow.

[url]http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/images/Vorrheis/watchman_armor.jpg[/url]

Vorrheis

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 6:20 am

You must have to kill a whole ton of those little bugs to get such a big armour set.

Xerox · Post by **Xerox** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:27 am

Morden wrote:Have you considered allowing the player to have hybrid armours custom made by one of your artisans? It would be cool to bring an armourer some netchleather and some molecrab and have some sort of strong, but light, armour made for you. And i know the emphasis is on natural armours, but what if you're an outlander, and you want some bonemold that is slightly stronger than the average stock.. well? You re-enforce it with Iron. Lore buffs would probably be grumpy...saying things like: "but then people will know you're an outlander because dunmer don't like metal armour, why would people realistically wear it?" You know why? Cause it looks cool, and its strong. Now i'm rambling.. so i'll leave you in peace.

Also, we could have NORMAL blacksmith (Guild or no guild) do this for you. Since its verry annoying that thes guys talk about making their weapons, but at the same time couldnt make you a netch/iron dagger.

DMKW · Post by **DMKW** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 9:02 am

my 2 cents:

i agree that the bonemold pauldrens would look cooler angled 45degrees either toward or away from the head. maybe nazz should make a post..

about the beatle...i think it would look better if the big but part was part of his body instead of the whole snail look

i like the watchman armour a lot...not sure about them pauldres though..

i know this post was more critism then constuctive but its hard to be constructive all the time

actually about the whatchman armour..i'd say mix the red with the white more on the pauldrens, gloves, greaves, boots like it is on the cuirass...instead of just read with white edges around it..i think it needs to be ballanced more

edit 2: ..if you still reading this

i think if you take the molecrab helm and you remove the pointy shell part...you'd have an extreemly cool looking mask..and a good helm varientt!

Vegor · Post by **Vegor** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:40 am

Watchman armor looks great vorrheis.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:25 pm

I would have to agree with everyone about the height of the pauldrons, they doo look a little tall, but straight up is fine.

On the watchman's, could you change the texture a little, so it looks more like shell of that bug? Right now it kind of all looks like muscle to me

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 4:03 pm

Yes, it should be a tad bit less reddish. Also, you might want to compress the pauldrons a bit, so they look less bloated and more like dried shells, that would make the whole ensemble look much better.

Otherwise, however, it looks quite nice. I've always liked that helmet, we should put some Redoran guards (or reservists, or whatever) wearing that armour somewhere.

BTW, could you make a female chest plate mesh?

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Mar 28, 2004 5:02 pm

I think guards with that armor would do well in either the capital, or in the new ST as a special group guarding the pass to skyrim.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:56 am

I really like what you've done with the Watchman's Armour. I especially like the look of the bracers, but the pauldron's stuck me as really out of place. Its sort of like they are sticking out of the shoulders, as opposed to protecting them. Pauldron's usually fall over the shoulder. I do like it though... its got that creepy organic look that it characteristic of Dunmer armour.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:25 am

Allright you vultures!!!:) Thanks for the crit, both constructive and not. I don't want to make stuff that no-one wants to use, so here's what I'm gonna do.

The Ornada beetle is going to get extensive vertex shading. The way his abdomen (butt) attaches is similar to ants and many spiders. I did that on purpose. The textures are going to stay the same, but the vertex shading will make it look much darker.

The indoril pauldrons- I'll re-scale the top spike of the pauldrons to be shorter, but the angle stays.

The watchman armor- I'll re-do most of the textures so that the plates don't look like framed muscle. And I'll re-make the pauldrons. I might make them look more like the old chitin pauldrons.

Anyway, I should have all of this done by tomorrow, and hopefully have a good start on the parastylus. If there are any more concerns, please PM them to me as soon as possible.

Vorrheis

Nazz · Post by **Nazz** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:15 am

Those pauldrons are not changing. I hate to sound like an ass but vorrheis modeled them exactly how I wanted them so end of story.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:46 am

Easy guys!!! I want no flames in this thread. If Nazz likes them for his project then everyone should respect that. I did work on some changes and maybe Nazz will like them better. If not we will call them native chezui pauldrons and use them in addition to the House Indoril Pauldrons.

Here's a pic:

[url]http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/images/Vorrheis/indoril_armor2.jpg[/url]

What do you guys think?

Sparky · Post by **Sparky** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:48 am

How about only a couple blacksmiths can do it - like maybe there is one who does bonemold and there is another that does some other type. Also you have to complete a quest of sort to unlock them, like maybe there is a blacksmith looking to start up his own shop so you must complete the quest to help him start up and then he will make them for you for you.

Nazz · Post by **Nazz** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:03 am

Actually that is about how tall I had originaly intended them to be, I meant to put a little note on the concept art about how tall they should be, but after comparing the two I still like the tall ones better. The whole suit gives the guards the exact look I was going for and I couldn't be happier about how it all turned out.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:05 am

@Sparky- That's a pretty good idea for a quest. I was kind of thinking that we will have to have a different set of scripts for this project. I mean a Dunmer or a smith in Cryodil probably couldn't make a set of wolf fur for you.
The house armors are definetely going to be limited. I think that each house should have it's own armorer who will be the only one who can make that armor and will only make it if you are a member. Same for the temple and the ordinator armor.

Anyway, while looking stuff over I noticed that the molecrab armor was moving strangely. It was because some of the pieces still had animation notes from the molecrab. I fixed those pieces and they are available below. This does; however, lead to a brilliant discovery. If I line up the animations to the notes of a biped creature (NPC), I can make animated armor and body parts. This doesn't have much application but it would be cool as hell for artifact armors, or living armors. Just think, spider chitin granted from Mephala with squirmy spider legs on the back. You don't even have to export animation files, you can include them in the nif.
If anyone has ideas for how to impliment this, we should start a new thread.

Here are the replacement pieces for the Molecrab armor:

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:11 am

you could mak armor that fights like a creature as a new monster

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:16 am

That's what the rider on the mounted dres bug is. He's just armor animated and loaded as a creature. I'm talking about armor that moves independently on the PC or an NPC.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:38 am

Here is the Ornada beetle. I did end up moving the abdomen, cause I'm cool like that. The vertex shading on the legs wouldn't export, but I think he looks good.

[url]http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/images/Vorrheis/ornada_beetle.jpg[/url]

If anyone wants to playtest him, I'm going to put the files in the soundgen monsters thread. Keep in mind that he is passive and has no attacks.

Gimli the dwarf · Post by **Gimli the dwarf** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:53 am

Oh, what a cute little bugger. This and the molecrab are just too cute, don't see why anyone would want to smash their face in to make some sub-par armor that can't even protect against a flea-bite

DMKW · Post by **DMKW** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:05 pm

about the beatle...wouldn't the shell be his body and not his butt? and if you are bent on making the shell his butt...would you add at least one set of legs back there so he's not dragging it on the ground?

p.s. i like the new pauldrens much better but i guess it doesn't matter

Gimli the dwarf · Post by **Gimli the dwarf** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:16 pm

It's actually built very anatomically correct for an insect. Insects don't have legs on their ass, all their legs are located attached to the middle portion of the body and the ass is usually fairly large in comparison to the other sections of the body.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:07 pm

@DKMW: Actually, insects have (well, usually) an abdomen that is larger then both head and torso taken together. Have a look here.

@Vorrheis: As for the Ornada beetle, have you made any descision on what it lives off, what it's social structure is, whether it is a hive based insect, or solitary? Will there be different versions (like with Kwarma) or will it only be the one beetle, like with the Molecrab and the Aphid?

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:11 pm

Yeah, If you check out the Ornada beetle in-game, you'll notice that he carries his butt very nicely.
Here is the second version of the watchman armor. I did what I could with the textures. If you want them changed again, I'm afraid you'll have to beg Morden to do it. This is about the extent of my skill.

[url]http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/images/Vorrheis/watchman_armor2.jpg[/url]

I think the pauldrons fit it a little more nicely. I feel that the new textures are a little busy, but it's kind of cool and reminds me of Yoshimitsu from Tekken 3.

Enjoy,
Vorrheis

Also, for those of you who have downloaded the previous version. The new textures and armor meshes have the same names and will replace version 1.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:15 pm

Hermit,

I was thinking of making the dres sky render into a colony-type insect. The molecrab and Ornada beetle I was thinking of as somewhat solitary. I'll make eggs for all three. But I only want to make a queen and larvae for the Dres mounts. The molecrab is carniverous (feeding on grubs and small rodents). The ornada beetle is an herbivore. I gave it mandibles like a grass-hopper, and I think that the molecrab and ornada, should be solitary except during mating season.

Vorrheis

Edit: If someone wants to make a book (farmers almanac of insects) about the new bugs, that would help solidify the lore. I'm sure a book like that would be a prized addition to the bug museum and natural armor smith's libraries.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:42 pm

Why not? I'll give it a try.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:55 pm

Erhm, we have a creature enclylopadiea (something) going. Search for it in the custom forum. This could be like another volume and perhaps a book about cartering the skin to armor or something

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:25 pm

The Parastylus will be a hunter and a wilderness animal, not cattle, right? Also, what about the dres ground bug mount? Will you do that one too? If so, I propose the name Mule Beetle for it.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:29 am

@Hermit-thanks for working on the book. If you want to brainstorm, let me know
@Blad- it would be cool if we could write some short explanatory manuals on using shell or bone in armor. They could be armorer skill books.

And now, here are my girls!!!!

[url]http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/images/Vorrheis/female_cuirasses.jpg[/url]

I made female cuirasses for all 5 armors that I've made. Nazz is contemplating using the short indoril pauldron as a female version, so it is also included. And lastly, I found some biped objects in the men's House Indoril cuirass, so I fixed it and put it in here as well (for Eraser's convenience).

Vorrheis

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:21 am

Just a thought what happens if the people put thier arms straight out to the sides. (They hit thier head with the head gaurds?).

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:53 am

That's why the clavicle is a seperate part for armor, so the pauldrons don't have to move in the same way as the upper-arm. It might cause a little clipping, but if you look at the back of a person's neck who's wearing the chezui helm, you'll notice some clipping or watch someone wearing the molecrab helm when they look down, the tusks go into the chest.
Some clipping is bound to happen with this physics engine.

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:11 am

Here is a screen of some bug eggs. I already made the icons. I made container nifs for clutches of eggs, but I think I'm going to re-do the Ornada bugs'. I would like it to look a little different from the molecrab's. The Sky Render's egg (the huge one) probably won't be in a container, depending on the interiors for their hive (if we ever build one). I wanted to have the Ornada bug carry the eggs on it's abdomen (as a seperate creature), but they're kind of big. What do you guys think?

[url]http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/images/Vorrheis/bug_eggs.jpg[/url]

Xerox · Post by **Xerox** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:32 am

I realy love the idea of a living(or atleast moving) armor. However....can it be done?, the Armors are replacements for boddy parts, and these must be static....

Also, in case I projected a wrong impression. I like both indoril armors, the second one just looks more "open". And realisticaly in real life... any extra wieght on the solder's sholders is not welcome. So the shorter is 'better'. How ever both version look fine to me.

About the Watcman armor....Might TR project include an pgrade the Armor rating? cos I have to agree with Gimli, it is of inferrior armor rating.

Gimli the dwarf · Post by **Gimli the dwarf** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:29 pm

The idea wasn't for the armor to be living, or moving. Basically the idea is you can go out and smash the head of an ornada beetle or a molecrab and break it's shell into smaller pieces, then realign and glue the pieces back together in order to fit the body part you wish to cover.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:40 pm

Also, soften them in some chemical, and twisten them into shapes not found on the bug (as with bonemold armour).

Living armour, hmmm ...- sounds like something Molag Bal might give to the enterprising worshipper at some point, or maybe Sheogorath ... It kinda makes me think of Dune (the God-Emperor), or maybe Babylon 5's shadows ... it could be very interesting. Also, the mephalan cursed spider armour idea is rather nice. And, while we're at it, how about a sword of the damned, with distorted moving faces on the blade? Yeah, that's animated textures, I was just wondering ...

vorrheis · Post by **vorrheis** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:43 pm

Nobody gave me any feedback on the bug eggs. Here is the picture again:

[url]http://www.cuneo.us/tesmw/images/Vorrheis/bug_eggs.jpg[/url]

The armor is animated, not necessarily 'living'. It moves (which should be impossible), but it does open all kinds of possibilities.

For all those who weren't on yesterday, there should be no talk of any pauldrons from the five completed armors. There was already a large and heated discussion (most of which was deleted). We can say the pauldrons are hollow so they are not too heavy. They are large, so as to be imposing.

Vorrheis

Does anyone have any idea for the dres sky render hive? I'm not sure which claim or claims we should have these, but we could probably just re-skin the cave interiors to look like a papery wasps nest.

Tamriel Rebuilt

Natural Armors

A LITTLE SOMETHING FOR THE LADIES