Barbarian Building Designs

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Thu May 13, 2004 4:40 am

Here are some sketches for barbarian / nomadic Nord buildings. I'm told that these guys live in the frozen wastes, and what that place is like I don't really know. I imagine that lumber would be a fairly scarce resource there so I've used it sparingly. I figure that the Nords would be able to have access to some trees (importing them in by sled or towed by boat along the coast) but rock, bone, mud / earth, and animal skins would be far more common building resources.

Scouting tower: small platform on a wooden post and supported by a set of huge rib bones from some beast lashed together. The platform would hold only one or two people and the hide-stretched teepee on top would provide some shelter from the elements. Genius that I am, I forgot to draw in a way up, simple: let the Nords use a ladder.

Bridge: just a variant of a suspension / rope / foot bridge made from hewn logs.

Dwelling: A basic dwelling, the walls are stone mortared with mud. The whole building covered almost entirely with earth for insulation.

I have more to come shortly...

Zombies · Post by **Zombies** » Thu May 13, 2004 4:53 am

Holy...wow...nice...*drools*

The bridge can definitely be used. The dwelling could also be used as some sort of underground storage...or a tomb...or just a house. The scouting tower... I dunno how well it'll fit, it kinda looks too fantasy...maybe it's just me.

Actually, timber is fairly plentiful in some parts of skyrim. As is stone...yep...

Great stuff! Can't wait to see more.

Xerox · Post by **Xerox** » Thu May 13, 2004 5:51 am

sweet! I especialy like the tower/ rope bridge idea!

Tolkar · Post by **Tolkar** » Thu May 13, 2004 7:44 am

Cool, i like the dwelling, though the tower and the bridge are more barbarian style. Great sketches.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu May 13, 2004 7:57 am

Bridge is A+ and has to be used, dwelling looks nice but i dont think it wouldbe used so much as the plann for noric houses are more hits like urs all made out of wood with animal skin roofs, urs still looks good though and could be an interesting place to see in the game, the tower im not so shure about, the design is nice but not for nords, nordic building are more rugged and baseic like ur bridge but that twoer would look nice in places like summerset i think as is looks elven but not dunmer or bosmer so definately altmer then.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Thu May 13, 2004 8:14 am

Whoa. You have great talent.

I definitely think the bridge should be made. It just looks really cool. Maybe even in the form of a tile set, so we can make more than one and customize it according to the terrian at hand.

Also, the building, while it kinda strikes me as a bit Hobbit-style, looks like it was really suited for tundra type surroundings, or maybe lone settlements for some greybeard, voice or other type of Nord sage.

Only the scout tower ... while it is really nice in itself, it doesn't fit Morrowind's style. Too ... warcraft. Morrowind is much more along the lines of actual medievat architecture. Sorry.

Keep em coming though!

prometheus · Post by **prometheus** » Thu May 13, 2004 10:54 am

great draws ... the bridge suits the nord barbarian style...as well as the previous house ... the tepee itself is uncommonbut could fit may be for an eremite or a wicca ...the house inside the terrain instead is too much hobbitish and modern for them....

av01d · Post by **av01d** » Thu May 13, 2004 2:24 pm

omfg @ bridge. thats BEAUTIFUL. gonna do something about it.

Graahrl · Post by **Graahrl** » Thu May 13, 2004 3:14 pm

These are awesome, though I agree that the scouting tower has a bit too much of a warcraft-like contruction... I can't really figure out how they'd construct something like that. The house and the bridge are great though, I hope some modellers are willing to try and make them.

If you need ideas for buildings in the Skyrim tundra, you can look to the people who live in those places today: eskimos and samii. The samii live in the northern tundras of Norway, Sweden, Finland and Russia (Lappland) and live in tent-things called lavvos. Pretty similar to the ashlander yurts, though more like teepees.

Lavvos:

http://www.trondernett.no/aasetskole/lavvo.jpg
Wooden lavvo

http://org.fredrikstad.kommune.no/tambour/Bildearkiv/2002%20OHT%20Lavvo%2001.JPG
http://www.rv17.no/petras/images/lavvo.jpg
These two are apparently from a slightly more tempered climate

http://www.royse.gs.bu.no/elever/5klasse/teddy/lavvo.jpg

http://www.villmarkssenter.no/Bilder/Lavvo/Lavvo%20hoved.jpg

http://www.bygdesentralen.com/lavvo.jpg

http://www.vapenandresen.no/Bilder/Lavvo.gif
Modern lavvo...

http://www.datakortet.no/testsentre/lukket/bilder/Wikans_lavvo.jpg

http://troms.kulturnett.no/ukm2001/kunst/images/DSCN4628_jpg.jpg

prometheus · Post by **prometheus** » Thu May 13, 2004 3:56 pm

i have always found a lot of similitudes between samii and native americans ....

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:49 am

Glad you guys like. It's OK you didn't think the tower fit, I wasn't so sure myself. Basicaly I figured that a scout tower wouldn't really be so important a structure to waste much lumber on so I went about designing it using mostly other materials (bone and wood). Ithought it ended up looking somewhat Dunmer-ish. I'll do another later, maybe making it as a glorified pile of rocks.

Anyhow... here's two more.
Top: Another dwelling. The sketch looks far more complex than the structure actually is. Basicaly a stone house, you can't see much of the roof but it's covered be animal hides piled up. The 'windbreaker" around the house is a tanned skin of some huge beast stretched around a ring of tusks (possibly from said same type of beast). Not really sure how, or if, this could be modeled, but these are just ideas after all.

Bottom: Atrading post, the only commercial type building that I could see a barbaric peoples having any use for. Again, stacked hides on the roof, the walls are hewn logs (debarked), pretty much just a log cabin. I thought about making a larger porch and an overhang over the door for shelter, but I decided that looked a little too 'Settling the American West"-ish. Not too many frills on this one, and the sketch is kinda crappy as I wasn't so sure I liked it and got lazy with it.

prometheus · Post by **prometheus** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:53 am

really good but the doors to be really barbarian should be made in fur even ... less technology ...the other house is more for countryside nords but nor for barbarians ...anyway very good draws...

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Fri May 14, 2004 12:56 am

Your sketches are excellent. The tower is a bit to fantasy-like but the other things you drew were excellent. Keep it up

.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:08 am

Good point Prometheus, I rather did like the hide flap I put in front of the entrance to the first dwelling I did (in another thread). I admittingly know next to nothing about the lore of these particular Nords, would they be capable of constructing something similar to the trading post?

Also, I must say that Graahrl's laavos would be quite practical, though in my opinion they leave much to be desired in the way od asthetics, even if they were 'dressed-up'.

Here's something somewhat unrelated, but here's a possible skyrim critter. It's a yeti type carnivore and I scanned him from my sketch book after seeing what Vorrheis's trolls looked like. This guy's a little different but he could serve as a Skyrim troll. There are trolls in Skyrim right? Nordic trollbone armor?
Nevermind the other critter, though he might be usefull elsewhere.

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:22 am

The top one doesn't look very nordic but if you make it more Deadric it could be a good deadra.
The lower one looks like it could be a good nord creature. (Almost looks a little orc like)

prometheus · Post by **prometheus** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:46 am

about the previous draw the top house looks original and barbarian fitting the bottom one looks more technological...

about this other draw ..yes it is definetly a great draw ..may be could be called the withe troll ? that could fit in skyrim as well....

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:47 am

*Edit* You guys are too fast for me

*Edit*

Good work Spider.

Your concepts are very nice.. you've got a great imagination. Hopefully you've got enough patience to outlast our criticism, but its all part of the process

I think the main thing Prom is getting at is the mixture of advanced stone masonry and timber construction, with the primitive bone and hide materials. For a semi-nomadic people, stone homes and large wooden structures would be rather inconvenient because of the labour which goes into it and the lack of those materials in a frozen environment.

I really like how you shaped the bones and the leather on the shack at the top of the last picture. Its very stylish and it matches the bridge in the last picture

.. but its the stone work in the middle that doesn't really match the structure.

Does anyone have suggestions for what other material might be used?

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:49 am

The top thing looks like it would fit into Hammerfell or Elsweyr. The bottom thing does look good for Skyrim.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri May 14, 2004 1:59 am

gj spider! lol, your almost as good as my mom and I! j/k you're just as godo as us

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Fri May 14, 2004 4:49 pm

If someone could give me some info about the lifestyle of these particular nords that would greatly facilitate my designs. Here's what I'm going off of:

Firstly, climate and habitat. I know nothing about the frozen wastes but given it's name I can assume this is a tundra landscape with long horrible winters. Building resources would come from the animals they hunted in the form of skins and bones. Stone would be available to them because a habitat cannot possibly be permanently covered in snow and ice AND be able to support a population of humans and the animals they hunt. See Antarctica for as an example: only two species can survive there (outside of the ocean that is) penguins and leopard seals. So stone would be harvested during the thaw for construction. Lumber would probably not be immediatly available, there would likely be expeditions by boat along the coast (for weeks perhaps) looking for and felling trees, which would be towed back to the village. This brings up the subject of fuel, wood would be too valuable and otherwise unreliable source as fuel for fires. I'm not sure what the Inuitts and such had used but I imagine that animal fat was probably a main source of fuel.

Now the people themselves. The term 'barbarian' has a few different meanings, throughout our history however these people were typically raiders (Vikings, Huns, Goths, and Mongols are a few). During thier raids and occupations of surrounding settlements and overseas they would have accquired several borrowed 'technologies' the most evident always being architecture. While not quite having the architectual skill of the civilizations they have raided from, the barbarians would still likley have some designs and 'technologies' integrated into their own architecture.
Most barbarian cultures would begin as a simple hunter / gatherer people who haved turned to raiding due to an increasingly harshe climate, a dwindling supply / extinction of game, or possibly even persecution from other civilizations and had become progressivley more war-like as raiding became seen as more and more of an advantage. I see the wasteland Nords as such and figure that a given community has two or three villages comprised of permantent structures in different locations. The community would migrate from village to village follwing the game supply which would be their primary source of resources. These would most likely be located near the coast and the community would travel by boat, but they could also be inland and travel made by sleds or pack animals and every one would live in tents during the trips between villages.

That's my take on things, again I don't really know anything about the wasteland Nords, this is just what my intuition says to me. If anyone knows any different let me know. Now I'm going to spit out a couple more buildings, I'll put them up a little later.

Majra · Post by **Majra** » Fri May 14, 2004 5:07 pm

when you make a concept design, you need to make it more in the context of a replicable design style, ie, some coherent attribute that will be repeated for a set group of people. Other wise, when you go into a town you will see architecture from all over the place around, and it will look really bad. So instead of making a whole bunch of different styles, pick a style, and just start posting a bunch of different designs using the attributes of that style

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat May 15, 2004 2:00 am

As for the environmental factors, i can't see stone being used for their structures.. not in any significant way. Stone is extremely difficult to take from the earth, and to carve. It takes a lot of time and energy to produce a stone structure, and as you said, it could only be extracted in the summer.. and as far as morrowind is concerned there are no seasons.

Heh.. its always winter or always summer.

I guess stone could by used if it were some form of stacked rock.. basically whatever could be moved in the summer, but not actually hacked out of the ground. I kinda like that. You could also use ice if you wanted... i mean.. its going to be eternally winter in the game engine.

Wood would rot and break down pretty quick in a constantly wet blizzardy environment. So bone would probably still be the best resource.

Travel by water could also be a problem. Your overland sled-travel idea might be best because of the frozen ocean... but in the game i guess we wouldn't make the entire ocean frozen, so it would still work.

Pretty soon i'm sure you'll hammer out some distinctive features for your buildings. The trick is to take the major features and incorporate them somehow into each building design to form a consistent style. I look forward to seeing more of your drawings, keep up the good work

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Sat May 15, 2004 2:16 am

Actually Skyrim is a land of snow because of it's mountains snow falls in the upper reaches almost all the time whereas the thaws are mostly in the lowlands. I would guess most farmers and sheperds move to the lowlands to farm away from the stone fortresses. As far as stone is concerned some stones are hard and some can be rather sort it depends on the type. I doubt it would be hard for the nords to cut out the stone even if they have to go to where it thaws. And even though most of thier buildings are wood thier first buildings were stone. By sled and sea it wouldn't be too tough to move the stone. Actually considering what humans on earth have done (Pyramids, easter island ect.) and that Nords have magic and well formed steel tools I don't see any difficulty for them.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:20 am

yeah its quite green and warm in southern and southeastern Skyrim, and there a patches of green all over mid-Skyrim, and a few here and there in northern.
At south-western Skyrim, I'd guess it starts to get dryer and more arid as it gets closer to Hammerfell

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:24 am

Isn't the northern coast of skyrim like the arctic?

Post by **Haplo** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:27 am

yes it is but there are still a dozen or so patches of green land in northen skyrim, just like greenland, there are a few areas of green in the desolate icelands

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:28 am

I'm pretty sure where I'm going with the architecture at this point, though I think I'll throw out a few more idea sketches before working out a full line.

On the stone issue, what I'm going to do is to use brittle, layered type stones such as shale that can easily be harvested from say, a cliffside. The other stone to use would be a well weathered rock, almost like river rock, that gets ripped out of the land by ice and glacial movements and depostited across the landscape during thaws.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:30 am

that means we'd need slate mines in skyrim, or shale mines, and that means new rocks, and new items! joy!

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:33 am

No, that doesn't necessitate any real mining operations. I mean, well... if you want to and all, that's fine... but I'm seeing it as a resource that's more 'gathered' (or even pillaged) than mined.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:43 am

well the places they 'gathered it from' had to have mined it from somewhere. They didnt just say, oh look, I found some slate on the table!

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:47 am

slate mine = quarry.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat May 15, 2004 5:59 am

Yeah.. i think quarry is the word we're looking for here. Thanks Icarus

Mining would mean a huge operation... any culture, living in any environment is capable of a quarry.

Also, the fact that they use broken rocks doesn't mean there has to be a quarry. Plenty of broken rocks, especially slate and shale can be found on a mountain side or a glacial plain... anyone can just pick up rocks.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat May 15, 2004 4:16 pm

of course, I didnt mean mine like egg mine, I meant quarry! lol, strange how thnigs are enterpreted sometimes

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Sat May 15, 2004 5:54 pm

Did these this morning, I'm going based off of my first dwelling sketch here: http://forums.tamriel-rebuilt.org/download.php?id=1433

Top: A basic dwelling, decided I'd use timber supports for no reason other than just because. The roof is covered in hides and the front wall is mortared slate. This would be the most common building design and probably only vary with the materials used for construction.

Middle: A larder shed. This is a long, low-roofed building with an enormous animal hide streched over the roof. It has an entrance at either end, but not likely to have doors. This is where the community's goods would be stored (food, extra weapons, supplies stolen from raids, etc...), there'd probably be one or two such buildings in each village.

Bottom: Another dwelling, smaller this time, perhaps a young bachaelor's house. Supports are made from giant rib bones, and the roof is covered in a differnt textured hides than the other dwelling. From the top this dwelling would appear semi-circular.

Bottom Right: The contractor, he's lazy, uses cheap discount building materials, he smells like cheap booze and a wet yak, and he drinks too much mead.

Post by **Haplo** » Sat May 15, 2004 8:52 pm

I like the fish skull wind chime, you've really outdone yourself there 8).

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat May 15, 2004 9:02 pm

OOOOOOoooo, this thread just gets better all the time, this stuff jas to be used...

Maklir · Post by **Maklir** » Sat May 15, 2004 10:52 pm

well, you surely know how to draw, this is nice. But at the first pic, I see a fail. What is the timber doing on the edge of the house? and there need to be lesser space between the stones if it's not to fall

Post by **Haplo** » Sat May 15, 2004 11:04 pm

@maklir, the stones have mortar around them dude...
and the wood is there because he said he wanted wood just for the heck of it.

Maklir · Post by **Maklir** » Sat May 15, 2004 11:14 pm

and where do these barbarians get this mortar? it is usually earth around stones in houses like this, I live in iceland, we've recentley "crawled" out of these houses made of rocks, earth, timber and turf (my grandmother lived in a such house for example, but not actually like these houses Spider drew, they were maybe like that around 1000)

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun May 16, 2004 6:55 pm

It looks like you've found your distinctive features Spider.