Unfabricants

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Sat May 29, 2004 7:01 pm

Has anyone thought to recreate the origional creatures that the fabricants were made from? I don't beleive that there are any references of what these beasties may have been called or where they're from, but I should think that the origional, un-cyborged creatures ought to be able to be found running around the Morrowind provonce somewhere. I suppose Sotha Sil could have created the creatures himself but this seems unlikley. Well, it's just a thought I had anyway.

Nazz · Post by **Nazz** » Sat May 29, 2004 7:42 pm

I'm pretty sure they aren't based on anything. Sotha Sil completely made them up, they just have a skin like covering because Sil was trying to "create life".

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Sat May 29, 2004 7:52 pm

what you said is wrong. The fabricants were made by balrizar; the methods having to do with necromancy. I'm guessing he raised dinosaur fossils, then added mechanical components where limbs were missing. You might find one such fossil if you are super-lucky, but as for making the actual creature; no.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sat May 29, 2004 8:09 pm

sirwootalot why do you think that fabricants were made by Barilzar ?

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Sat May 29, 2004 11:36 pm

Because The Balrizlar's Mazed Band can summon Fabricants.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Sun May 30, 2004 1:10 am

No, no, no... the Mazed Band opens a doorway, or portal, or whatever you like, to anyplace you like, including other worlds such as Oblivian. I dunno it may be that it'll also summon creatures from that realm and give you some power over it.
The point being Balrizar had nothing to do with the fabricants aside from Amelexia using his ring to summon a bunch of fabricants into Mournhold after she'd whacked Sotha Sil.

*As far as Sotha Sil creating the creatures from scratch, I don't really believe that either. It doesn't really suit the tribunal as creators of life, moreso protectors/keepers of it, even though they're gods the tribunal has fallicies, and we know as a fact that they are not all-powerful (hence two of them now dead, and the three of them being backed into a corner for so long by Dagoth Ur) so it isn't at all out of place for them to have limits to their power, and I imagine the spontaneous creation of lifeforms is probably beyond their threshold.

Nazz · Post by **Nazz** » Sun May 30, 2004 1:48 am

So you think merging machinary with living tissue is an easier task to accomplish than to make a machine and make it look organic? I would think the latter would be more his style, and also more doable, than the former.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Sun May 30, 2004 1:54 am

Nazz has a point since all the fabricants look excactly alike. But I still like to think of the fabricants as dinosaurs.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Sun May 30, 2004 2:17 am

Well what would the point be of a realistic looking machine, granted Sotha Sil was a genius and if he wanted to make artificial life he could, but I don't think aesthetics was his thing, I mean did you see how the was living? And why stop at a partially fleshed-out robot?
I saw the fabricants as being more of a transitory project toward the phase of an atificial life form. Sort of tinkering and improving upon an existing lifeform for the sake of study which also had the useful byproduct of creating decent sentries. I'd see Sotha Sil's ultimate goal being geared toward something like the Imperfects (who were, apparently, not quite all that perfect I guess).
Errr... I guess this thread is starting to go in it's own direction. I mostly just thought that the fabricant creatures would make for a neato wildlife encounter in Morrowind, and possibly be done relatively easily.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Sun May 30, 2004 2:32 pm

Yeah, thats something Ive been wondering for a while. Id like to encounter large lizards with scorpion tails and six limbs. That would be awesome.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Sun May 30, 2004 7:45 pm

IDEA!
everyone thinks the creatue they were made from is extinct, but they aren't - they live in isolated, dangerous places like DEEP underground caves ([hint]dun akafell[/hint]), far-out islands, or the argon jungle. However, there would be very few.

Also, the fabricants WERE NOT MADE BY SOTHA SIL. all we know is that the ability to summon them was invented by balrizar, and that the mazed band has ONLY been used by two people ever (besides the player): balrizar and almalexia. Besides, the fabricants (imperfect included) and almalexia were the ones that KILLED sotha sil.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun May 30, 2004 7:49 pm

Tell me, when you first got the ring? Were you able to summon fabricants? Almalexia said he used the ring to summon fabricants from sotha sil to mournhold. The summon fabricant enchantment on the ring was just a gimmick from bethsoft

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sun May 30, 2004 8:24 pm

I doube Bladmad. Not everything that is in game is logickal. Barilzar Band was made as a mean of transporation. And it was its only purpose. So "Summon Fabricant" = "Transport farbricant to PC's current position". And personally I think that they were artificially created. And the original creatures they were breeded from are already dead and allforgotten.

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Sun May 30, 2004 8:54 pm

First of all how do you know the fabricants killed sotha sil.
Second the imperfect aren't at all organic so I don't know why you are using the analogy.

As for who created them I would assume sotha sil although it is possible if unlikely that Almalexia did.

As far as I know the mazed band only warps you to Sotha Sil nothing else. It could be what summons the fabricants but you never know.

If sil made them then they could be cyborgs or cybernetic we don't know. If they came from somewhere else we have no idea about anything about them. Personally it seems to me that they are entirely created although you are righ they could be some undergound creature that was found by Sotha.

And they aren't dinosaurs regardless. That emplies they are from the past and are extinct.
So I guess I would agree but you would have to develop it more.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Sun May 30, 2004 9:46 pm

The main purpose of the Mazed Band was to open portals into anyplace one would like. Apparantly you could teleport yourself or someone else to another place, also one could draw someone or something else from another place to someplace else in your vicinity.

"The Mazed Band may actually be no more than a legend, though there is no doubt of Barilzar's existence, or his power. It has been said that the Mazed Band was able to open rifts in time and space...that it could even open the gates of Oblivion. It's been said that it would take one of divine birth to wield the ring. Some speculate that that was how Barilzar himself met his end. Of course, this is all conjecture. No one really knows what happened to the man or the Band. All of that was lost centuries ago." -Torasa Aram, Mournhold Museum

"I have heard many tales of that ring, and the evil Barilzar who created it. It was to be a means of teleportation for the wizard, but it was much worse than that. That ring was said to open gates to hellish planes, releasing creatures best left in nightmare. I've heard the ring was stripped of its power, and that only a god could use it now and not be destroyed. The thought chills my bones." -Plitinius Mero, Author of "The Real Barenzia"

I might be inclined to believe that the fabricants were an entirely synthetic creation if the Elder Scrolls was a sci-fi game set in some futuristic setting where maybe life-like automotons were needed to fool people. As it is, Elder Scrolls is a fantasy type game and I do believe that Bethesda held true to that in that what 'futuristic technologies' were in the game still appeared crude by standard and easily recognizable as something handmade (The only exception being the very stream-lined Imperfect). Another thing that makes me doubt the purely artificial nature of the fabricants is the fact that they can be soul-trapped unlike the dwemer construsts, however this also holds true for the Imperfect. But I dunno who's to say that he wasn't imbued with a soul, much like a giant, deadly, robo soulgem? Who's to say that this isn't simply an oversight by Bethesda?

Where would these creatures come from? That would likely depend on where the actual location of the Clockwork City is, of which I've read several theories, the most likely of which seems to me as being the southern swamps of Morrowind, near the Argonian border. Sotha Sil could have obtained the origianal creatures from anywhere really, but if it were me I'd use local or semi-local wildlife if I were just going to cut them up and be reattaching new limbs and whatnot. Maybe he kept a breeding stock somewhere in the city.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Mon May 31, 2004 3:07 am

Yeah! Maybe they are local lizards from Argonia. That would make sense.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:30 am

Well if the The Mazed Band truely can go to Oblivion, it is posible that his creatures took on aspects of Daedra or other Creatures there. Sotha Sil wasn't exactly shy when it came to Oblivion or the Daedra, so that ia a possibility.

Also I believe that The Band could possible go other places such as Oblivion, it is just that the player hasn't figured out or isn't powerful enough to use it to go to those places.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Mon May 31, 2004 5:53 pm

And if the clockwork city IS in the southern swamps (translation: argon jungle) then, can I get back to making the un-enterable exterior for it (which I lost last month when my old hard drive died)?

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Mon May 31, 2004 7:06 pm

I have no real idea of where it is, though I've read several theories. Aside from it being located near Argonia, I've read the idea of the Clockwork City being in the far south-eastern badland of Morrowind, being located on the mainland in the west, under the sea (Sea of Gosts I think), and I've also heard of it as travelling around underground to various different locations.
There is probably a thread on this site somewhere about the subject of the Clockwork City's location. My original intent was to ask if the pre-fabricant creatures should be added to the lore creatures list.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Mon May 31, 2004 7:20 pm

But what I meant was I had done work on this exterior I described before you came to the project - however, I lost over half my work one day when my hard drive failed, and when I started anew I decided not to re-make the exterior of the clockwork city. Now that the lore seems to be pointing back at it, I suggested that I could re-start work on it.

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:05 pm

I would ask someone from the core first. I think exteriors for the clockwork city were nixed. And I would also ask Nazz or a core member for a ruling on the prefabricants.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:04 pm

When I think of the fabricants, I think of a not-quite-finished race of synthetic beings created by the Tinkerer himself, Sotha Sil. In their finished state, the fabricants would have looked exactly like normal organisms (just complete the fleshy parts you see) but Sotha Sil was killed by Almalexia before he was able to finish his grand scheme of creating a new life using science and technology.

Balnizar had nothing to do with the fabricants or the Clockwork City. His ring had powers over space and time, which was what Almalexia knew she would need to enter the Clockwork City and kill Sotha Sil. The ring is capable of bringing fabricants to Tamriel in the same way it can bring the bearer to the Clockwork city (or anywhere else) and this is how Almalexia brought the fabricants to the Plaza Brindisi Dorom. The player cannot truly operate Balnizar's ring to its fullest extent and is limited to a certain few powers. Incidently, these are the powers that Almalexia had used, which leads to speculation that, perhaps, the ring's powers can only be activated by divinity, but a mortal could use them after that.

Think about the motives Sotha Sil would have for the fabricants. If he was just putting cybernetic implants into already existing organisms, where does that get him? Sure he might be able to make them more powerful, but ambition for power was never Sotha Sil's way.

Sotha Sil's way was the progress of science and technology. What better achievement could there be than to prove your godhood by creating life? Sotha Sil's aim was to create living things from the technological knowledge he had, and this incompleted effort was the fabricant race. Think about it, why would he call that thing the "Imperfect"?

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:06 pm

Plus it is mentioned that Sotha Sil never really cared much about his "powers", so he may have prefered technology to his this. He was known to study the Psijic Endeavor as well. To me Sotha Sil would have been the most unaffected of the Tribunal after they had lost all their powers, Almalexia being the most affected, infact I doubt she would live with out them. The fabricants imo were a completely new race.

On the subject of Sotha Sil the City, we should not create any external parts of it. Just because Beth gave us several places for where Sotha Sil might be is enough reason not to do make any of them certain. If we don't make it is still possible it exist in southern, or under the sea, or even in Oblivion, this is why it was left uncertain.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:22 am

The popular opinion that I've seen in other forums on the subject of fabricants seems to be that they are completely synthetic. Which is fine, I was just wondering if anyone had thought to model such creatures.

Now however I am not satisfied. The answere seems obvious to me, especially when you see things from the Bethesda developer's point of view. The lack of any lore whatsoever on the fabricants is due to them being a very limited enemy, they are encountered in only three places, they serve their purpose and after that they have out-lived their usefulness. If Besthesda wanted Sotha Sil to have purely synthetic servants, I think they would likley created them in such a manner to avoid any confusion (though maybe I'm the only one confused).

On the subject of creating a synthetic life, I'd look to our own world as a parallel. We have not yet truely created synthetic life (though there ARE reasonable facsimilies), we have however produced some very advanced prosthetics. Now, if you replace a man's (or woman's) leg with a cybernetic one, does that make him synthetic? Maybe. If you replace the other leg as well? What if you replace his entire body with cybernetics, even his brain/mind? Would that make someone synthetic when there's nothing organic left? Think about it.

At any rate, whether anyone decides these creatures belong in ES lore or not, I want to get behind the truth of the issue. I'm going to go sifting through the official forums, if I find anything posted from a game dev. I'll let you know... If I don't make it back, assume the worst... tell my family I loved them...

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 2:42 am

LoL! Good luck! You can borrow my sword for those areas when the lore-searching gets ugly.

I still adhere to the totally synthetic organism theory, but see what you can find, Spider.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 6:34 pm

Okay, I've spent all of last night and all of today rummaging through the Official Elder Scrolls Forums, and here's what I've found on the subject... NOTHING!
I should at least be thankful I made it out of there with my mind still intact, well... at least as intact as it ever was. I guess we can just make of it what we will until we've heard otherwise.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 9:11 pm

Well, someone has posted a strikingly similar question on the ESF - and a dev has answered: [url=http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2644989&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1]Lo and behold, BlueDev has risen![/url]

Well, he doesn't say *that* much, but at least he says the Fabricants were indeed Cyborgs, not Androids.

- hermit -

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:12 pm

Hermit, you beat me to it, I'd just seen that in the official forums and was about the paste that up here.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 9:18 pm

heh ... well the point is it's there, I guess. And now we should really think about making these critters, I guess.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:20 am

Something else I'd been playing with. However this is about as far as this idea goes as parts of the mesh are still mechanical in formation.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:45 am

Wowie Zowie!!! Thats swwwwweeeeet! New MW creatures!

Meer-Sei · Post by **Meer-Sei** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:20 am

Yea, I was gonna add that they walk very naturally, and act like living things, whereas centurions etc are very rigid.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:21 am

But then again, Sotha Sil was a god, while the Dwemer were mere mortals toying with technology.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:37 am

Sotha Sil was a demigod.

I think the tribunal and Dagoth Ur could alter existing life forms with their power.

Vivec taught the dunmer to breath water and flooded morrowind. And it appears that Dagoth Ur's power influenced the ash vampires and other 6th house monsters. So chances are that they exist somewhere.

Meer-Sei · Post by **Meer-Sei** » Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:41 am

Well, also the fact that the Hulking facbricants (the ones w. scorpion tails) have cuts and are bleeding where the mechanics and tissue meet. Look closely where the metal legs meet the body, and the tail is VERY messy as well.

Gleb · Post by **Gleb** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:22 am

Y'know, Sotha Sil's location is on a map.

[url]http://www.elderscrolls.com/index.php?url=/tenth_anniv/tenth_anniv.htm&bg=11[/url]

Click on the map, and you'll find Sotha Sil near the southern border with Argonia.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:54 pm

Which map is this? And if you're right, Gleb, you've just completely overturned the Core here.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 11:32 pm

Ive known about that map for a while. Its on TIL.

People on the ES forums seemed to ignore it too.

Gleb · Post by **Gleb** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:03 am

Not really. We just rarely talk about maps in general. And Garriath, that would be the map Bethesda released on the 10th Anniversary.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:22 am

Aha.

Thank you, Gleb.