Creature Creation Team

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:35 am

yeah...what he said. I concur

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:17 am

Eh, I agree and disagree.
As an artist, I know that it is not easy for me to go back and change my drawings. In order for me to get a decent scan, I need to use ballpoint, if not an inkpen, to finish my drawings. It is pretty hard to add and remove things from an inked drawing. It would probably be easier concearning minor changes for the modeler and texturer to handle them on their own.
But I think that we should have some feedback on the drawings. If the drawing is all wrong, I don't mind doing another one. Although I do go through a sketchpad every other week, it is something I can deal with. The way things are now is fine by me. Now if people start bickering over the tint of red for a monster's eyes, or whether or not an Ogre should have shitstains in his underwear, things need to be clamped down on.
Now back on topic, I noticed that the Titan Mudcrab (or whatever) is one of the creatures listed as unfinished. Does this warrant it's own drawing and model, or will we just increase the size of an existing mudcrab by 300% or so?

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:45 am

Hmmm. I am no modeler, sadly, but I do know how to concept creatures. I have worked with vorrheis before, and I think - I hope - I was helpful, and could produce concepts that were as a modeler needed them. So, if you want me, count me in.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:35 pm

Sorry, I was short on time when I put up my last post. It should have been more elaborate as what I meant was something along the lines of what dexter said. No. there isn't anything wrong with discussion, just so long as it doesn't hold up the process.

I've been rather busy the last week, but pretty soon I'll have the last (I think it's the last) lore creatures sketched.

Ace_Pro7 · Post by **Ace_Pro7** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:21 pm

Well if someone can come up with a sketch of the Titan Crab that would be alright. Are all of the pictures submitted that were going to be used for modeling the Ogre? If not post them soon.

-Ace

Ace_Pro7 · Post by **Ace_Pro7** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:17 pm

alright, now lets decide if the Ogre will be an NPC Race or a Creature. If it was an NPC Race we could change the face and make each one unique. If it was a Creature it would probably be easier to animate.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:21 pm

I have a suggestion for the Ogre. We already talked about ritual scarring, and someone suggested to me that I pierce one of his nipples with ah human bone, to draw a parallel to the Ogrim. While we are on this track, why not go all out and give them a distinct theme? I am thinking something along the lines of the Amazon prehistoric tribes. Maybe an animal tooth necklace, some furs on his body somewhere, and crude scars. If nobody has any strong objections to this, I will add them to my original drawing (in addition to the horn), and scan it. Even if you all do protest, I'll probably draw it anyways.

Ace_Pro7 · Post by **Ace_Pro7** » Sun Jul 11, 2004 6:25 pm

Sounds good, but ill ask Nazz if that fits in with the lore, otherwise i like the idea. Im just waiting to start modeling (although i already have a whole sh!tload of work to do)

-Ace

Ace_Pro7 · Post by **Ace_Pro7** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:36 pm

Alright, please submit your pictures for modeling. Morden if you want to, could you start painting up some textures for the Ogre? Keep in mind the Tatoos and scaring (and maybe some fatness stretch marks). Spider or Dex, please draw up a High-Quality side & front view. The reason that i want it high quality is because i prefere modeling exactly as the picture shows. I also have a suggestion for your drawings. To get an exact parralel picture you have to have the pictures parallel to each other. For example, lets say you draw your front view on your paper, then you draw your side view on your paper, but when you line up the two pictures on the paper, the head in the side view is much lower than it is in the front view, so then it is hard to model an Ogre with his head in the right position. To solve this maybe draw some lines like 1" from the top of the page to measure the height of the head of the Ogre. That way, the head in the side view and the head in the front view are at the same spot, same with shoulders and eyes and hips and stuff. KEEP IT AS PARALLEL AS POSSIBLE.

-Ace

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:46 am

Here is a template for the Ogre. The side and front views should match up pretty damn close. The front view is not completely symmetrical with itself, however. If it is a problem, just open it with Photoshop, slice it in half and mirror it.
This is an undecorated version. We were kicking around ideas of making the Ogres have a prehistoric Amazon tribal feel, but that never got the go from someone who knows what they're talking about (since I sure as hell don't). Should that be approved, I can come back later and add in the details to the drawing.
About the drawing itself, I was going for what I was in the previous two, which is big and stupid. I think I was most sucessful with this one. I don't believe I have ever conveyed so much stupidity in one facial expression before.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:53 am

for the size of the kneecaps of the profile view to be that size, the size of them in the front view are too large.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:05 am

Uh...no they aren't.
If anything, the kneecaps in the profile view are too large for the frontal view.
Either way, I won't be uploading a new drawing to correct a kneecap proportion mistake. I'm sure that Ace can handle that on his own.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:19 am

The jungle tribal thing may not have been suitable for ogres, but i'm sure we can go ahead with that ritual scarring/tatooing. Any ideas for design and body placement?

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:34 am

Well, I was thinking that since his gut is the largest part of his body (I have affectionatly named him Fatty McFatfat) he should have some on there. For the style of the scars, they should be simple and primitive in appearance, sort of like Celtic runes. [url]http://village.fortunecity.com/bernhard/864/runes.html[/url]
That is a page with a listing of some of the Celtic runes. For his belly, there should be two, one on either side, below his ogreboobs. Possibly something similar to the first rune, Fehu. I also think he could have one on each shoulder, or even forearm. Something more like Othila or Dagaz.
His face is small, so complicating it with a scar wouldn't be smart, but he could have one large, more complicated scarred design on his back. If you want, I can draw in the scars the way I imagine them, or the texturer can handle them. Until then, I am going to work on a Titan Mudcrab.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:42 pm

Has anyone started modelling the ogre? Is that the next step?

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:46 pm

I'll ask Ace about it as soon as he is available on MSN.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:58 am

It's a bird... It's a plane... It's.... WERESHARK!

Modeled this today, I need to add teeth (I'm not sure how the things in Morrowind are animated, so I assumed that the lower jaw could just be part of the body, and that the arms and fingers are supposed to be extended.) It clocks in at just over 2,000 faces.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:16 am

A few problems...
1. Do you know how to make physiqued animations? if not, this wont work.
2. How are we gonna make it playable?
3. The arms look like they aren't blended in the model enough, dunno if theres a better way to explain it but it simply looks unreal.
4. I better be the one who refines the texture

.
very, very good... Only other suggestions would be to make it its own thread and to make it look a BIT more like a person.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:28 am

sirwootalot123 wrote:A few problems...
1. Do you know how to make physiqued animations? if not, this wont work.
2. How are we gonna make it playable?
3. The arms look like they aren't blended in the model enough, dunno if theres a better way to explain it but it simply looks unreal.
4. I better be the one who refines the texture .
very, very good... Only other suggestions would be to make it its own thread and to make it look a BIT more like a person.

That's the thing, I don't know how the Morrowind animation system works. The only animation I learned was the simple Bonespro system. So I wasn't sure if things had to be one part of the mesh, or if they had to be seperate pieces. I can blend the arms in more, though the textures will help with that too.

There will be muscles on the underbelly like the concept art (abdominal muscles, a "six-pack") but I was thinking it would be better to do that in textures, so I left it flat. And I'm not sure how to make the shark body more human, I kind of just kept it like the concept art. I'll fix up the arms though. Any other suggestions on how to humanize it would be great.

I thought this was the best thread for this because it's part of the Creature Creation.

Aaricus · Post by **Aaricus** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:02 am

Nice modeling Eyeball, its nice to see some models finally coming out of all the wonderful concept art.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:03 am

Nice work Eyeball. Its a great start to our creature project.

Believe it or not it would be good idea to do a rough shape of the abdominal muscles on the underside of the mesh. Not a detailed shaping, but just a lump to separate the abdomen area from the rest of the body.

You could also try moulding some shoulders for those arms... and some faint shoulder blades on the back. You can also try to add a chest on the underside. A rough outline of some pectoral muscles perhaps. Kinda like a Merman/mermaid with a sharkhead.

Gimli the dwarf · Post by **Gimli the dwarf** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:34 am

Woah, that's awesome looking Eyeball, you and Vorrheis ought to be able to make some awesome stuff together.

I dunno how it's gonna be playable... maybe if the player is on land when he changes he's immobilized or has to drag himself with his flippers.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:59 am

Maybe we should have a "CREATURE CREATION TEAM" sub-forum? Is there any possibility of that? That way we can post a new thread for each concept art piece/modeled/finished creature, and have everyone pick it apart without cluttering this forum up more? Just a thought.

Anyways, I gave the shark bulky muscles and blended in the arms. He's also got his six pack sticking out a ways. And I threw in teeth too. He now clocks in at just under 2400 faces.

As for making him playable, I was thinking there was two ways that might work. One is to have the player have to get to water quickly after having a warning that the transformation is beginning, or two have the player pull himself along the ground with his arms. This would require a new animation. Just some thoughts.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:16 pm

Erg, double post.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:17 pm

And I started the Werelion. Got fed up at the head, so I'm going to call it quits for now and finish it up tomorrow if I can. This one is a pretty rough draft, and it isn't smoothed much at all.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:11 pm

Eyeball that wereshark is one of the most badass models I've seen yet, awsome job, and the werelion body is looking really sharp too!

I had an idea about how to make the wereshark playable, though I'm not sure that it's possible script-wise. Suppose a player becomes a wereshark, while they are in humanoid form perhaps it can be configured to apply cumulative damage to the player when they get too far far away from an ocean (perhaps when they leave a cell that doesn't contain ocean). When the player transforms, they could be teleported to a predetermined point in the water in any given cell mentioned above. It sounds like a scripting nightmare to me and probably more work than worth doind, if it can be done at all. My opinion is to just not have the wereshark playable at all, but that's just me.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:22 pm

I'm with Spider on this one, in that it would be easiest if the Wereshark was not playable. However, if it must be, I think it should have some similarities with the Werewolf. You should know if you contract the Wereshark disease. Three days, cure common disease, bla bla bla. If you are not cured by three days, you turn into the Wereshark at night. While in Wereshark form, you must be underwater. If you go out of water, the little "breath" bar pops up at the top of your screen. Basically, just reverse the whole swimming concept. Since the Wereshark arms are pretty beefy, you should be able to go on land (at a speed that is based more on your strength, since you have to pull yourself along, not run), so that you can make your one kill a night and feed. On a side-note, the Werecroc should be able to breathe air and water.
For the Werecreatures, should they be playable, we need to be consistant. The player needs to know when they are infected, and they need to know the nature of the disease. You transform every night, have no inventory access, and must feed once a night.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:40 pm

You just brought up another point I didn't think about. My thoughts were that the wereshark form would be a swiming creature only, one reason being to cut down on animations and the other reason being it a bit difficult to catch anyone while dragging yourself about with your arms. However with the general 'need to catch and kill an npc every night' rule, that would make things difficult for a strictly aquatic creature as there aren't very many npc's idley swimming about in the ocean.
Sounds like a conundrum to me.

Gimli the dwarf · Post by **Gimli the dwarf** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:18 pm

I'd assume make the werevulture and the wereshark unplayable because they are so rare (correct me on lore here guys if i'm wrong). It just seems like a load of work to do to make them playable when they will rarely be encountered. I think the wereboar is the 2nd most common were creature, so he should probably be playable, and the most vicious, but again i could be wrong.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:22 pm

hey!
you REALLY need to fix the werelion so it has seperate body parts, like the werewolf does- this way it can be playable.
If you dont know that morrowind uses seperate body parts yet, i am ashamed nearly. In fact, for the werelion I might even reccomend directly importing the werewolf parts then modifying them - this can be done for all the other lycanthropes, quite possibly.

Also, shouldnt you be focusing on lycanthropes that actually do appear in morrowind, like the werebear? (werelion is only in elsweyr, a province over a decade away)

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:43 pm

I don't know about not making them gimli but they are definitally low priority.
Were boar followed by the others when we get to thier province is probably the best idea.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:35 pm

sirwootalot123 wrote:hey!
you REALLY need to fix the werelion so it has seperate body parts, like the werewolf does- this way it can be playable.
If you dont know that morrowind uses seperate body parts yet, i am ashamed nearly. In fact, for the werelion I might even reccomend directly importing the werewolf parts then modifying them - this can be done for all the other lycanthropes, quite possibly.

Also, shouldnt you be focusing on lycanthropes that actually do appear in morrowind, like the werebear? (werelion is only in elsweyr, a province over a decade away)

Unfortunately, a lot of the NIF files crash Max when I try to import them. This makes learning how to model Morrowind things increasingly difficult. I was under the impression that I could build the entire mesh, then just detach the seperate parts. This makes it look more seamless, and I'm assuming that's how Bethesda did theirs.

I wasn't sure which of the creatures belonged where, so I kinda started from the bottom and worked my way up. I'll work on the Werebear next. Anyways, once I finish all of the things I need to get done today, I'll finish working on the lion.

Spider · Post by **Spider** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:38 am

As I see it, eyeball's doing a fine job, and you sirwoot could stand to be less critical and demeaning lately, I've seen a fair portion of lame stuff come from you. When was the last time I saw you model anything... Oh, hmm... never!?

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:51 am

Spider wrote:As I see it, eyeball's doing a fine job, and you sirwoot could stand to be less critical and demeaning lately, I've seen a fair portion of lame stuff come from you. When was the last time I saw you model anything... Oh, hmm... never!?

My hero!

No, sirwoot's right though. I haven't ever modeled anything for Morrowind before (aside from a few tidal-pool creatures I did in my spare time when I was first learning modeling, but those were just static objects.) So the only way I can learn how to do it correctly is if people point out my flaws. And no work will ever be perfect.

I'm putting the Werelion on hold and working on the Werebear because it takes priority. Where will the Wereboar be found? Will he be a priority too, or is he further into the game?

Also, I want a Werecliffracer. Any hopes on that?

battle_bison · Post by **battle_bison** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:57 am

I think that a couple posts back, Sir Woot was right, but maybe since eyeball is the kickass modeler, we should try to be constructive. I like the way they look, it's just a matter of breaking them apart to get the pieces. Also about the werecliffracer, I would support it if it weren't for the fact that cliffracers and the single most annoying creatures in the game. There's no lore that says there's no such thing as a werecliffracer I believe, it would just have to be a matter of opinion.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:12 am

Oh well, a man can dream.

I can't get any of the bear.nif files off of my Bloodmoon CD without it crashing, is there any way I can fix that? My max hates NIF files with a passion; I can only import like, 1 in every 10 models: I can get the werewolf fine, but all of the bears crash.

I'll be back in an hour or two to work again, and maybe I'll be able to pump out the bear and finish the lion tonight. Then I'll use Spider's awesome concept for the Ebony Carriage and try to finish it.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:27 am

All these playable Were-creatures are going to attract a large number of roleplaying Furries.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:31 am

Dare I ask?

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:44 am

Morden wrote:All these playable Were-creatures are going to attract a large number of roleplaying Furries.

Unfortunately, Morden, the Khajiit already more than filled that void. I've already read Khajiit-furry "fanfics" that would make an Argonian's scales fall off. But it'll only get better as we add more and more varieties of Khajiit to the game.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:52 am

Worse than The Real Barenziah (Unabridged)"?