Proposal: Tamriel Main Quest

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 5:34 am

As strange as it might sound, I believe the Second Numidian Effect was a contrivance of Father. I say this because of the apparent inconsistancy in its execution. That is, it is well known that the normal operation of the golem causes time to behave differently for those in it's proximity... it jumbles time chaotically, yet as twisted about as time might become, there is but one thread to follow. Not so the Warp in the West, as it is called.

Though his notes make no mention of what changes were wrought upon the Brass God during it's reconstruction, they are certainly Father's doing. The plans of his from which we operate clearly anticipate the unprescedented behavior. Father's understanding of the principles behind the Numidian must have been quite astounding to allow for such modification.

As is to be expected from such a far-seeing mind, we did not entirely understand why this curious variation in the Numidium would be necessary. Though the numerous users of the golem in truth did much to strengthen our position, one is left wondering... Why would Father not have planned to use the Numidium himself, and instead allow several other factions to wield it? It's power was such that Mannimarco transcended to godhood from it's use; if the great machine could do such a thing, what could it not do? What was Father's aim, that the use of the Brass God was not an end play, but merely another in a long chain?

At times I feel a strange kinship to the Dwemeri golem. As though all of us involved in Father's great conspiracy are not thinking, feeling people, but machines acting on his decades old directions. Acting, but not understanding. Tools to be used and discarded. I wish Father were still with us; his presence would dispel the darkness of my thoughts, his smiles chase away these shadows of doubt.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:39 am

Despite the mystery of the Numidium, our efforts build toward a head. By this time, our victory is inevitable, our position unassailable. The time is coming when our movements will no longer need be concealed, when we will be able to walk proudly in the light of day. Glory that, to cast aside this cloak of subterfuge and show men the new shape of the world.

Uriel, unaware of our true depth, has only begun to realize that an unseen force gathers against him. He seeks allies where he scorned them before. A sickly old man, scrambling for the hand of friendship he would have met with a conquering sword in younger years. Desperately he will cling to what he cannot hope to hold, trying to rally those he would bind with the Imperial yoke.

To Morrowind he sends a prisoner, hoping to manufacture a Nerevarine that will owe him his freedom. That will curb the waxing power of mad Dagoth Ur, who is himself but one piece of a vast puzzle. It was no coincidence that The Sixth House escaped the boundary of the Ghostfence the year following Father's death. Truly, I hope Uriel's little savior meets with success; House Dagoth or Nerevarine, either creates volatility and that is the goal. To keep things in flux while we do what we must. Create chaos, confusion, misdirection that will allow us to act elsewhere. But a flesh and blood mortal, symbol of unity or no, is much easier to have dealt with should he prove difficult, and there yet exists the possibility that he may smile upon our cause. Dagoth Ur, on the opposite face of the coin, is certain to be difficult in all aspects.

The Emperor will find troubles outside Morrowind as well, if he can tear his gaze away from his heirs and the crowds who loathe them. If he can see past himself, his family, his home. He will find them, but doing something about them is another matter altogether. And at this point, the many conclusions of all these years -- these decades -- of work are not even truly necessary for ultimate success. Now, they only serve to ease the transition.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:28 am

Wow. WOW.

Interesting revelations. I assume this is the end of the Morrowind-relevant Tharn's journals? You should compile them and submit them to the core for inclusion in the MMQ.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:29 am

Here's what I have in mind:

The Staff of Chaos was supposed to have been drained of power after Arena. Well, that's not what happened. True, it lost it's original function, but that was the idea, to give it a new purpose and to disguise that purpose.

The gemstone of the Staff now acts like a soulgem, and contains the essence of Jagar Tharn. Tharn wanted The Eternal Champion to "kill" him with it. That was the plan. It's the only way the plan could work. With the changes made to the Numidium, the gemstone acts as mantella, while the staff-y part acts as totem.

See, the Heir thinks the Numidium will be used to overthrow the Septims and establish a more just rule. He's thinking something along the lines of model UN and/or Republic.

What the allies really want is to use the Heir (who is the only one of them who can use the totem) to divide up Tamriel amongst themselves. They don't really want to change the social order, just who's on top. Once they have power, they'll discard the Heir like a piece of garbage.

What's really going to happen is that Tharn's essence will be used to power the Numidium. He will essentially become the Numidium. While the Heir can use the totem, it's not that useful anymore. That was the real point of the Warp in the West. As much as Tharn pieced together about it's workings, he didn't know how to sever the bond between the machine and the totem. The six-fold duplication was supposed to overtax the Numidium's ability, and with too much being asked of it, that part of the machine would break down. So the place where it would normally accept input from the totem is fried. Tharn will be controlling himself. At least, that's what he's banking on.

The confusion caused along the way works with all the plans. It gives the Heir and the allies their window to take control, to take power; their plans only differ in what they do with that power once they have it. For Tharn, it's another manipulation, a carrot to dangle in front of the Heir and allies so that they think they're running the show. And he's no Lorkhan, and he's no Underking; until he can take the Heart or something else, he might not be able to take a truly concentrated assault. Really, his biggest strength is in intimidation and ignorance -- everyone will think he's too powerful to challenge, and won't try to stop him. Having his enemies divided minimizes the risk.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:42 am

You've really thought this through, haven't you? I love it so far, but where do Uriel Septim VII, his "heirs", and the other Imperials come into play? And how does this affect the MMQ?

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:30 am

Hahahahaha!
Thought out... It's weird. I'm not really thinking things out. As I wrote bits for the Tharn heir, things would occur to me, and they fit perfectly together. It almost feels like I'm not so much writing it as discovering it.

Uriel doesn't see the big picture. All he knows is that a lot of shit is heading toward the fan at once, and that's not good. At this point, he realizes that something big is going on, so he has to take a more active role to head it off. How or even if these things are connected, he doesn't know. He's not really moving against Tharn's allies; he's moving against their symptoms, the thing he can see and deal with.

I don't know if it works better if his heirs *are* dopplegangers, or if they only appear to be. Certainly, either way they'll be part of the Cyrodiil MQ. The TMQ portion that is, although they might figure into the provincial MQ too. Keeping in mind the allies are looking to create chaos, the heirs are the single biggest way to do that.

The allies are going to try and force a House War in Morrowind. That + Dagoth Ur = massive disorganization and confusion and weakness. Besides the chaos, they'll be trying to recover something; some piece of Numidium or the Staff of Chaos or something. They'll get what they're looking for, but their effort to throw things into disorder will ultimately fail.

That's the model for the other MQs -- the allies get what they need (though it'd be cool if you could get that too, in one instance, only to have it stolen later), but loose the struggle for disorder. So there's no real big changes to be made to cities and such. They remain certain that they'll win anyway, and it allows the "good guys" that desperate last chance to strike at he end. The bad guy should never be the underdog.

At the end, I picture the Tharn heir and the last of his supporters holed up in a castle in Cyrodiil... Numidium complete, ready to run and turn the tide. To give them their assurred victory, to make all the efforts of Uriel (and the player) moot. At that point, you'll get your choice -- Kill the heir, convince him to give you the totem, or allow him to use it.

The Mad God · Post by **The Mad God** » Thu Jul 22, 2004 3:47 am

There is nothing about that speculative exersize I didn't like Earl.

I like the idea of bringing together the lose threads of all the previus TES games.

The Eternal Champion's defeat of Jagar Tharn, The Warp of the West, and the battle with Dagoth Ur, all a part of Jagar Tharn's plans. I like the way you explain Tharn merging with the Numidian.

As to the idea of the Provincial Main Quest pattern you suggest, I agree wholeheartedly. I think Hammerfell and High Rock would be perfect places for the pieces of the Numidian to be retrieved. Raw materials and plans could be recovered from Morrowind. The Staff of Chaos itself can be recovered only from the Imperial Palace (since the Eternal Champion returned the discharged staff to the emporer). Each of the provinces has something to offer that can further Tharn's plans.

I would like to see Tharn's Heir come to understand at least a part of the big picture and strive to take more active control over his own destiny. Even if he fails to exersize free will apart from his father's motives the act of trying to fight destiny should make him a far more sympathetic character. It would actually be interesting to have him misinterperet part of the plan and end up playing right into Tharn's hands.

You know, after reading some of this, I begin to wonder if Bethesda had something like this planned themselves.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 11:42 pm

How old would Tharn's heir have to be now?

DoctorPhanan · Post by **DoctorPhanan** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 1:15 am

So the Provincial Main Quests, will they need to be done in order? or will they be independent of each other?

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 4:32 am

Independant I think but that's still under discussion. Regardless they will all fit together for the MQ.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Sun Jul 25, 2004 8:44 am

Morden wrote:How old would Tharn's heir have to be now?

Tharn died in 399, so he's got to be at least 28.
Tharn was Uriel VII's Imperial Battlemage, and Uriel didn't take the throne until about 3E 368, so he would be 59 at most.
I don't think Tharn was entirely (or at all, IIRC) human, and we know his mother wasn't, so he would probably still be considered young at 59.

Can't remember the timeframe for his birth, so I can't nail it down any farther.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 8:43 am

The reason i ask, is because i think your writings would make a good spoken monologue... or atleast portions of your writings, cause recording them all might take up too much space.

The heir sounds like a very thoughtful and perceptive man... perhaps introspective. Atleast thats what comes to me through the writings. We'd probably have to give him a british accent for dramatic affect.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:01 am

The failing of the heir is that he allows himself to live in the shadow of his father. He's smart and good and determined, but he's never really pressed himself. Jagar Tharn laid things out well enough that nothing has ever really challenged him, and he hasn't sought to challenge himself.

If he weren't in on the plan as much as he is, he might have uncovered it's true path. As it is, he's content to believe there probably isn't much more to it. For him, it's all right there in easy reach, so he's never thought to reach much further. If he thought there was a conspiracy all around him, he could find it; his failing is that he puts his trust in traitors.

We seek to create confusion and discord. Along these lines in Morrowind province, while many options are yet open, we must exercise only one to meet our goals. It would be easy to turn the other Great Houses against Hlaalu, yet that would only sow unity among the remaining Houses, would only leave the survivors stronger. And faced with such overwhelming force, the conflict could not last; Hlaalu could not alone resist all others long enough for us to take what we need.

No, Hlaalu is too valueable a piece at the moment to allow it to be crushed. It is the seed of discontent, and we should let that seed sprout. For even in victory, the other Houses will loathe Hlaalu and the instability will be continued. And Hlaalu does not itself have the strength to destroy those who would see it destroyed.

So the scenario we are given to pursue becomes clear. We must instigate strife between Hlaalu and Dres along their mutual border, and we must make it seem as though Hlaalu is in the right, is justified in their position. Indoril, having been so humbled by Hlaalu, will not be able to resist the opportunity to aid their traditional allies Dres at the expense of their old enemy. Redoran, for their part, treat Hlaalu with a cold sort of contempt, but hold justice above all else. They will defend the maligned party regardless.

The Telvanni are a more interesting and unpredictable lot. I suspect the mainland council will sieze the chance to extend their southern border with Indoril... while at the same time the lot on Vvardenfell might try to stretch themselves into the territory held by the Hlaalu. Neither of those Houses will be able to throw their full weight against the Telvanni, and Redoran and Dres, being more distant, are not in a position to offer much assistance in such a secondary battle. Or perhaps the Telvanni will hold true to history and remain neutral, until we push them in the proper direction. The vampires of Dres are potent rivals, after all... and the Empire-loving Hlaalu harbors threats against the practice of slavery (only individuals, true, but influential ones). That I myself object to the practice is immaterial; once we have secured our certain triumph, we can do away with the notion that one might own another.

Hlaalu and Redoran could well wrestle Dres and Indoril to a standstill, with Telvanni biting the hides of either side as purpose suited them. Such offers the greatest amount of divisiveness.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:27 am

The vampires of Dres are potent rivals, after all

NOBODY, i say NOBODY, is supposed to know this, except the dres "councillors" (actually mouths) and the dres vamps themselves.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 6:44 am

Tharn's heir might know this. It is conceivable that Tharn's network might have a sleeper in the Dres council, given the extent to which they have penetrated the factions of Tamriel.

By the way, what is the name of Jagar Tharn's son? Jagar Tharn Jr.? It would be nice to have a name to go on.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:00 am

good idea, ill come up with some name...
Rauthas Tharn
Sahmad Tharn (actually no, lets not use my name

)
Jerrath Tharn
Kahrmanz Tharn
Xelath Tharn
Jezirat Tharn

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:26 am

For a while, I thought he might just go by "Tharn". It highlights the way he's overshadowed, considered important only as a reflection of his father. As if he had no other identity. And he might use it simply because it's a name that's associated with power. It's intimidating.

Virtanen Tharn?
Ethian Tharn?
Siadath Tharn?

Something less harsh that Jagar; something weaker, airer, lighter. It'd be easier if there were more names similar to Jagar, so it wouldn't seem too out of place...

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 7:55 am

Kudan Tharn maybe?

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 8:06 am

LOL!
nice easter egg there, but it sounds harsh.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:26 pm

Shalnar Tharn?
Talthas Tharn?
Niveri Tharn?

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:45 am

The Dres are an interesting lot, in that they -- or more rightly their leadership -- was unknown even to father until he gained close access to the Elder Scrolls. It is not an easy task to escape his notice for long; indeed, though he was long ignorant of the /nature/ of Dres' lords, he knew that those who played the public part were mere shadows. I'm not entirely sure why Emperors past did not act on this knowledge, for they had possession of the Elder Scrolls all along. Perhaps they lacked the skill to see it, or the wisdom to understand what they saw, or it was known and kept silent as a tool of last resort, or they are left alone to keep the fragile balance in Morrowind's House politics. More likely, the soft rulers simply did not look, being satisfied that their power was assured.

Whatever the case, it does not truly matter. The Dres are diseased, parasitic vermin different only superficially from other strains of vampire. They are petty and greedy beasts like their brethren, stretching their fingers to snatch away gold and power and dignity where they may. And more useful, they are secretive, even among themselves. By necessity vampires are so, but the Dres have an even higher degree of necessity than most.

When we instigate the confrontation between Hlaalu and Dres, the secretive nature of the vampires will cause some initial confusion even among the ranks of the Dres themselves. For their position does not allow them the luxury of easy communication, and their nature is well in line with the kind of avarice that will be exemplified. There may be doubt as to whether or not one of them actually acted thus, but there will certainly be suspicion. They will all consider the possibility. And by the time they realize that their hand wasn't the one to guide their fate, the course will already be unalterable.

Pride and tradition will not allow their untainted underlings to back down. Indeed, by that time, it will not be merely /their/ underlings involved. Indoril and Redoran and Telvanni will all be swept up in the tide. And then the stage will be ready for our Numidium to set the clock on the glorious new age.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:20 pm

Man, thats good really stuff Earl. It's good to see someone is putting some thought into the MQ, however far off it is to being realised.

Edit to prevent double post:
In regards to the original MQ proposal, personally I believe that the Blades are a horrible plot device (particularly to a character that hates Imperials but is still forced to work with them, such as my own

). I think we should explore other avenues of quest delivery, like summons from a house or faction that the player is already a part of. Just a suggestion.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:12 am

[I really should look over the Morrowind MQ proposal... but I don't want to break this chain of thought]

Outline of the start:

[Blades questgiver]
"Things have been surprisingly quiet lately, so I'm afraid I don't have too much for you to do right now. Nothing too dangerous, anyway. But if you're looking for something to do, our Hlaalu allies need someone trustworthy to deliver some flin to [some mine]. The foreman there sent word that the mine connects to a burried Daedric ruin, and he'd rather not involve outsiders in it's excavation, even if they're from his own House. You see, being an agent of Imperial authority lends credibility, a certain air of officialdom, whereas uninvolved Hlaalu are just as likely to plunder as research. Besides which, the mine is kind of difficult for regular Hlaalu resuppliers to get to -- it's pretty high up in the mountains -- and when the miners get the flin directly through us, it's a bit cheaper."

So it's off to the mine. What kind of mine doesn't really matter; it could even be Kwama. I was thinking the Velothi mountains, but anything high up the side of any mountain will do. The Daedric ruin would start at the bottom of the mine. But when you get to the mine, everything is dead. Hlaalu miners, guards, the foreman, even a few Daedric beasts. Materials and possessions are scattered all over the place. Among the items -- or maybe in one of the corpses -- you'll find something suspect. Like, say, a small dagger wedged into the folds of an Ogrim's belly. Something that looks out of place, something the PC would pick up (I figure making the object a weapon increases those odds). You take the weapon back to the Blades questgiver, and...

[Blades questgiver]
I can't think who would do such a thing. True, the mine is profitable, but nothing worth killing over. Outside of the foreman, the miners, and the councilor in charge of the area -- and obviously me -- I don't think anyone knew of the Daedric aspect. And you say the Daedra were killed to, so it wasn't a simple case of them mauling the miners... So the only lead we have is that blade you recovered. It's design looks common enough, but I'm hardly a judge of weapons. Maybe if you showed the dagger to a few weapons merchants, one of them might recognize it. Since you were the one to find it, it only makes sense to let you continue on this path.

A local merchant will recognize the craftsmanship of the dagger, and point you toward a smith in some other Hlaalu town. The Hlaalu smith will, with some prodding, cough up the name of the person he made the dagger for. A small-time Camonna Tong member. Asking around town about the criminal will net you nothing, unless your disposition is unusually high -- people don't like to rat out the mob. But eventually, you'll find out that [Camonna Tong member] lives in [small Redoran city]. So it's off to [small Redoran city] to shake down the killer.

In [small Redoran city], you find [Camonna Tong member]'s house is locked up, and asking around town you discover that no one has seen him in a while. Go to the Redoran guard's quarters and talk to the leader of the guard, telling him that [Camonna Tong member] is your lead suspect in a killing. He'll hunt up a key to the house, and accompany you to the dwelling (since something is clearly up, but he doesn't really trust you). Inside [Camonna Tong member]'s house, it's a bloodbath. [Camonna Tong member] is on the floor, naked and torn apart. His house has been turned upside down, not unlike the mine. Wedged between a bookshelf and the wall (or some other difficult-to access area) is a letter. The letter goes like this:

[Camonna Tong member],

As per our previous correspondance, I have enclosed the agreed upon amount. I will advise you once again to spend the money sparingly, among many different armorers'. To buy whole suits would arouse suspicion, and it is your role in this to keep such suspicion from arising. If you are unable to do this duty, we will instead find another purpose for you in maintaining the Ghostfence.

[The letter is unsigned]

[On the reverse side, [Camonna Tong member] has written notes to himself. Names of Armorers are written in columns alongside pieces of armor and their prices, and dates purchased. Looking at the list, you see that altogether 6 sets of Hlaalu guard armor were bought. Further down the page, five names are listed, presumably those to whom the armor was delivered, the sixth set being for the Camonna Tong member --

[Member of House Dres 1]
[Member of House Dres 2]
[Member of House Dres 3]
[Member of House Dres 4]
[Member of House Dres 5]]

Talk to the Redoran guard again, and show him the letter. He'll suggest that you take the letter to your Blades questgiver.

[Blades questgiver]
I probably wouldn't recognize those names, if we were going strictly by position within the House. They're more middle-class, you know. Not policy makers, no real influence. But rank only matters so much -- I recognize the names because these five have given us problems before. What we could prove wasn't illegal, and what was illegal we couldn't prove. You know how the Dres are -- anti-Imperial to the bone. But this here is different. This is real, serious trouble, not just rabble-rousing. I hope you didn't show this to anyone else, because things are difficult enough in Morrowind without a House War.

Of course, the Redoran guard would be honor-bound to report the matter and inform the Hlaalu authorities. That's when things would get tricksier.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:14 am

Now, a little background. What was being looked for in the mine/ruin that would be worth the Dres killing everyone? Well, there's a rumour going around in vampire circles that once upon a time, there were scrolls that held an ancient spell, a spell that would completely and permanently negate the sun damage they take. Which is more useful than an artifact that does the same, because an artifact could always be taken away. These scrolls are further rumoured to be located in some forgotten Daedric ruin along the Velothi mountains. So if the Hlaalu discovered such a ruin, it would be worth it to a Dres councilor to destroy the mine and take the scroll, because it would give him an advantage over his brothers.

The thing of it is, only the premise is real. There are no scrolls. The Dres didn't destroy the mine. The Dres didn't kill the Camonna Tong member. It's only supposed to look like one of them did. The real Dres will only hear about the mine/ruin once Hlaalu starts breathing down their necks, and then they'll wonder which of them was trying to pull a fast one on the others.

What's really going on is that the foreman of the mine (or the Hlaalu councilor) is part of the Tharn conspiracy. When the Daedric ruin was uncovered, it was reported immediately through that network. Knowing of the vampire legend, the conspirators saw their opportunity, and told the foreman to sit on the mine for a while.

Meanwhile, the Camonna Tong thug is contacted, and hired as a third party to buy Hlaalu armor so that the supposed Dres can sneak through Hlaalu territory and into the mine/ruin without drawing attention. But he wasn't supposed to /deliver/ it to the Dres, they were supposed to come get it, and he would lead them to and through the mine/ruin (the idea being that he was a low-level thief, so if something was hidden he'd have a better idea where to look). What he didn't know was that it wasn't the Dres he was dealing with. So after making his list -- creating the incriminating evidence against the Dres -- the agents of the conspirators simply killed him, stole the armor he'd bought, and made it look like the Dres had searched the home thoroughly. Then they swept through the mine/ruin in the armor they'd taken, doing the same. Leaving no witnesses, and making sure the thin trail led inevitably to the Camonna Tong thug, who would lead to Dres.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:20 am

stop it earl, your quests are so awesome that they are making me wet myself.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:50 am

I was trying to make something possible at a low level, at least to start off, which is why even the Daedra in the ruin would be dead. And if dead Daedra bodies are lore-incosistant, well, look at all those scamp perma-corpses in the original game.

Other low-level notes:
- Free flin (gets kind of lost in the shuffle that you were supposed to deliver it)
- Free stuff in the mine (maybe it *should* be a Kwama mine, then. No free ebony to steal)
- Free weapon (dagger, or what-have-you)
- Redoran guard either unlocks the door or gives you the key (so you don't need to be an ace lockpicker)
- House to use in town (Camonna Tong guy's), with a perma-corpse to store things in
- Being that the guy was Camonna Tong, there are probably some lockpicks and probes around

It's a "some shit to get you started" kind of thing. The only real danger is in getting from place to place with wild animals in between.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:15 am

Thats fantastically complicated Earl, but explaining the set-up to the player might get confusing. I know i got confused just reading it when it was set out like that, how would the player feel if it was only hinted to them, bits at a time?

I'm not saying to change it to make it simpler, just that the dialogue writers are gonna have a tough job here.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:21 am

That's pretty good, but I've a question. What if the player breaks into the Camonna Tong dude's house without talking to the Redoran guard? In that case, the Redoran guard won't tell the council which won't tell the Hlaalu, which would completely thwart Tharn's plans. Could open up a nice alternative in the quest I suppose.

Another problem though, people don't mine anywhere near Daedric ruins anymore. Maybe instead it's just dead kwama warriors lying around?

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:47 pm

They didnt know the ruin existed, silly.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Aug 28, 2004 11:00 pm

Aah... I get you. 8)

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:49 am

Nomadic1 wrote:That's pretty good, but I've a question. What if the player breaks into the Camonna Tong dude's house without talking to the Redoran guard?

The placement of the thug's house in the town should make it difficult to break into without getting caught. Something like having the entrance just opposite of a stationary guard or outdoor mechant. Although even that can be worked around with Invisibility or Chameleon. In that case, extreme cheating is necessary: script the letter to appear only if the guard follows the PC into the house.

Yeah, I like that. I mean, what if the PC went visiting without being sent there, took the letter, and later misplaced it? Besides which, with easy, legal alternatives, the motivation to break in is low.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:03 am

[Blades questgiver]
"The Redorans saw this letter? That only makes things worse. The mainland isn't like Vvardenfell; on Vvardenfell, there's some question as to who really owns what, so some... physical disputes are nothing to get worked up over. Here in mainland Morrowind, everyone's had their territories staked out for thousands of years, and shifting borders are a much bigger deal. While the other Houses might be getting a good chuckle about Hlaalu being taken down a peg, it's deadly serious. The raid on the mine might as well be a declaration of war, and with a Hlaalu sitting on the throne they can't tolerate that kind of challenge to their authority.

Here's what we have to do: I'll reach my contacts in Hlaalu, and you'll get in touch with the Dres. If you can get the Dres to give up the rebels, I might be able to keep the Hlaalu from open war. At least long enough for you to get those five troublemakers. It should be good enough for the Redoran, if we can convince them that those five acted alone and without the knowledge of or approval from the Dres council. Keeping House Indoril out of it is another headache, but one thing at a time, you know? Oh, and make sure you deliver those five alive -- Hlaalu will execute them of course, but that's the way things like this are supposed to work. Justice in the hands of the wronged party."

The problem is that the five are out of reach in Dres territory; if you go to Tear, no one knows where the hell they are, and they wouldn't tell you if they did. News travels fast in Morrowind, so when the Dres leadership caught wind of why Hlaalu was suddenly so pissed off, they each snapped up the Five (I have no idea how many Dres councilors or vampires there are). The idea being that each suspects the other in the raid, and they're totruring the hell out of the Five trying to figure out which it was. The Five, for their part, can't admit to anything because this is the first they've heard of the raid. So we're at an impasse.

The vampires want information the Five can't possibly provide. You need the Five intact to head off House War, and more importantly, to figure out what their role in this was. Moreover, the Dres vampires are quite adept at what they do, and they know your questgiver is off stalling the Hlaalu. So when you show up wanting something they have -- even if that something is useless to them, and handing it over will help them -- they'll make you jump through hoops for it. Who knows? While you're off running errands for them, the Five might just crack.

After completing all errands (likely one for each Dres lord or hostage), you're allowed access to the Five. Even after being tortured by their own people, they're not too keen on an outlander like you. Still, they're willing to tell you everything they know because they don't know anything. At this point, you'll start to get the idea that something fishy is going on.

Once your interviews are complete, you're thinking it'll be a small matter to walk the Five back over to Hlaalu territory and be done with it. But that's not how it goes down. You try to leave Tear (presumably they'd all be held in Tear), and more news comes in. A Dres councilor kindly informs you that the Five aren't going to be leaving -- while the Dres might kill them later anyway, they certainly won't be turning them over to Hlaalu.

Why? It seems Hlaalu got tired of waiting. Four Hlaalu guards were seen around [some Dres location] tearing shit up and killing people and generally causing all sorts of havoc. So the Hlaalu will most certainly not be getting anything from the Dres. As far as they're concerned, it's go time. Naturally, the four Hlaalu guards are wearing the armor the Camonna Tong thug bought; it's the conspirators, trying to head off a peaceful resolution. Why only four of them? Well, if it was all six it'd be /too/ obvious. And who knows... maybe the other two are busy elsewhere...

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:23 am

Fuckin amazing Earl, keep up the good work.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:33 am

Good work, Earl.

Its nice to see a story unfolding. Perhaps you should point some moderators in the direction of this thread to have a peek at it...see what they think.

Is there any way that we can include parts of map one into the story, so that we could plan for the npc's which are being claimed?

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:32 am

Eraser wrote:Found another perfect lead in from TES3. When Caius is called back to Cyrodiil, that woman who helps you in the vivec temple says she thinks he's involved in something dangerous and secret. this keeps fitting in better and better.

The only problem with using Caius in anything is that it makes the original MQ a requirement.

Although, it would be cool to use him. Maybe as someone trying to trace leads on the Tharn conspirators. Maybe as a Tharn conspirator himself (That actually makes decent sense -- I think the conspirators would rather deal with the Nerevarine than Dagoth Ur, and maybe having one of their own guide the Nerevarine would instill some kind of loyalty in him). It would be an interesting twist, but I'm afraid it might come off too trite.

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:35 am

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:53 am

Now things look pretty bad, but they're about to get worse. [Blades questgiver] is doing his best, but the Hlaalu are so superpissed they're about to have a massive collective stroke. To not turn over the Five is one thing, and bad enough. But now Dres is demanding payment for the destruction that Hlaalu /knows/ it -- probably -- didn't cause.

And now Indoril is weighing in, citing the interests of law and order. I mean, the evidence that was good enough for Redoran doesn't mean a thing to Indoril. After all, it casts Hlaalu as victim. No, the eyewitnesses to the "Hlaalu" attack are what matter to Indoril. It is an example of how the Houses /don't/ conduct civilized business.

Meanwhile, Redoran thinks the Dres attacked themselves -- they "know" that six suits of Hlaalu guard's armour were bought by members of House Dres. So any attack by Hlaalu guards is suspect. Further, Redoran knows that the Dres are aware of the actions of the Five in the mine raid, yet refuse to turn the guilty parties over so that justice might be meted out.

Telvanni, as always, is incredibly self-absorbed and hasn't even considered the strife important enough to merit attention.

So the situation is pretty tense, and forces are starting to gather. It seems like blows will start falling any time now. Grasping at straws, [Blades questgiver] has an idea: Vivec is the most accessable of the Triunes. Why not go to him, and try to get him to mediate a peace? Or convince religious Indoril and Dres not to strike without his approval...

Now, there are two things that are necessary to address.
1) We can't change Vvardenfell. So the Vivec in Vvardenfell just plain doesn't want to discuss the matter. Obviously. He can be a jerk like that sometimes. Being a god, it's his right to be mysterious. Anyway, simply hopping across the pond to Vvardenfell isn't going to be the way to do this.
2) What if the player has already killed Vivec? Well, as above, Vvardenfell Vivec is unuseable anyway. And since Vivec is pretty godly (disconnected from the Heart or not), I think it's safe to entertain the possibility that he might be able to resurrect himself. So we'd have a Vivec on the mainland and a Vivec on Vvardenfell that would be treated as separate NPCs (or creatures, technically).

The only question then is where and how do you find the mainland Vivec? Which is what the PC will be doing while the storm clouds gather and darken.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:37 pm

Wow. I think my mind will explode if it gets more complicated.

Not that that would be a bad thing.

Two questions:

1. Why would Vivec leave Vvardenfel?

2. What alternate path would occur if you are the Nevarine already?

Would you go and try to mediate the peace yourself?

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 11:33 pm

Sorry Earl, I haven't had time to read it all, but I am giving an option for the Vivec problem. You could instead have the Alma Rula, head of the Temple and usually very close to the Triunes, mediate the situation. He could say he is acting for them, even if they happen to be dead or not, as he probably is not going to be making that known just yet. Plus, the Alma Rula has full control of the Ordinators, and so he has a force to wield.

If you make use of the Ordinators, let me know. Again sorry, I will come back in a bit to read the entire thing, but it sounds good so far.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:04 am

I like the idea of having an Alma Rula intermediary. Vivec isn't very accessible at the best of times, its not likely that a new character would be able to talk to him directly. The temple would also hold weight with both House indoril and house dres.