Cities in Cyrodiil

[Janus]

As most of you already know, there are not many cities in Cyrodiil. Especially in the East of Cyrodiil aren't big cities. But how were the Imperials able to conquer the other Provinces and rule them? Without Cities or Supplie-Stations they would never be able to do that. So in Cyrodiil (especially in the east) have to be many big Forts (to put up every soldier of this big army) like Moonmoth Fort, etc.

[Túrelio]

Cyrodiil probably has quite alot of highway forts and towns, along commonly used roads. Still, it is probably least populated to the east because the Empire doesn't extend much that way population-wise, the Blackmarsh is very occupied, only thing of interest is Morrowind, so Southeastern Cyrodiil is probably the least populated.

[Fallen Murk]

My impression was that the Colovian West of the Cyrodiil Province was more than half the population of the province; hence, the east (or center) of Cyrodiil had less than half (but by no means a great minority of the peoples).

Also, don't forget how large the Imperial City is. It can hold quite a few folks. (I believe more people live in NYC than in the state of Arkansas.)

The money and muscle (not to mention the generals) of the Colovian West played a great part in the Empire's rise.

My question to follow that would be, "Why didn't the Colovian population simply run the empire?" And I can only assume that the symbolism of the Empirial City is a necessary item on a "to conquer the continent" recipe list.

[Túrelio]

Yes, the Imperial City is VERY BIG. Not only is the main city probably huge, but there would be many other sub-cities living on nearby islands connected by bridges that are considered part of the city. Plus, it is said there are whole communities on these bridges(which would apparently quite big), that connect the islands and basically the whole city with the mainland.

[Anonymous]

This city sounds like it would take the most time to make out of all the citys in all of Tamriel!

[Haplo]

It probably will, aside from 1 - 3 of the elven/argonian cities that are huge and require a BUNCH of new meshes and textures.

[Garriath]

Well, I'd imagine that the Imperial City would be more than just Imperial architecture. The Cyrodiils aren't overly arrogant, so I'd imagine that quite a few of them would adapt to, say, the Altmer's architecture (which I'd imagine would be quite fancy/impressive.) I would hope that, when we finally make the Imperial City, we make at least several unique palaces and other meshes/textures.

But for now, let's focus on Morrowind.

[Túrelio]

Definatly, you should be able to feel the differences in culture in different parts of the city. Old parts maybe still elven built even. Alot of places could resemble Noric or look alot like structure from High Rock too.

[Haplo]

woowoo BUDDY it'll be fun for whoever designs Cyrodiils layout 8)

[Fallen Murk]

...Old parts maybe still elven built even...

Nail on the head. It was the Altmer (or were they Aldmer back then, sorry - I should know that - no matter...) that first resided there.

Oh, and...

This city sounds like it would take the most time to make out of all the citys in all of Tamriel!

I can't say "time"-wise on building it cause I'm not involved, but without a doubt it must be the largest city in Tamriel. Don't worry about it now. With all that you guys are doing, I wouldn't mind seeing structures previously built for other areas re-used a bit. (You know what I mean, a few here and there picked from various places - this might shortcut some of the blending of architecture styles you speak of. If this in any way offends the creative goal of the project, simply ignore that last part.)

[Túrelio]

It definatly will take alot of time and planning, and this isn't some small team thing either, Cyrodiil should be mulitiple claims(like subcities, islands, sections of the bridges, manor estates, and even the main city itself should be made into several claims). That alone, will help keep them looking different.

One thing to avoid with the city, is having the same overall look, we don't want it all to look the same, infact i think that it could look completely different from opposite sides. We will need all new models for this, there really isn't anything in-game currently that we could use, even the Imperial Forts are likely not the same in other parts of Tamriel, and especially as you head more towards their home.

Nail on the head. It was the Altmer (or were they Aldmer back then, sorry - I should know that - no matter...) that first resided there.

Aldmer/Bosmer/Ayleids, not sure if they would have changed enough by then.

[Gleb]

Ayleids. I don't know what their architecture looks like, although it's probably like Altmeri (In other words, unique and very ornate.). Might all have been destroyed during the vile Alessian Dictatorship (Probably wouldn't have been, as destroying a whole section of the Imperial City would be rather disruptive to daily affairs.), and others were certainly ruined during the rule of the Potentates and the political vacuum that existed afterwords. Heck, some might even be in the sewers, sort of like how Old Mournhold was built over after it was ruined.

I don't really think there would be anything Bosmeri in an Ayleid city, though.

[Marauth Alaí-Raán]

There wouldn't, the Ayleids despise all other Meri cultures, including the Altmer, it was the Aldmer who built the fortress which Cyrodiil was built on, and according to the elf who annotated the Pocket Guide some atrocity occurred there long ago - perpetrated by humans obviously, They probably wiped out the whole Aldmeri populace or something like that, I doubt you'd see any of the original fortress above ground anymore, maybe some very deep parts of the sewers would have some of the architecture left but not much. The Ayleids live in the forests of Nibenay in eastern Cyrodil so I doubt they have an architectural style as building big cities would only attract attention.

[Gleb]

The Aldmer had vanished by the First Era. The city was built by the Ayleids. The use of "Aldmeri" refers to it's use as a term for simply "Elven," as opposed to Bosmeri or Altmeri. The great crimes that "YR" speaks of are the butcheries committed by the Alessian Dictatorship, specifically, the massacre of the Ayleids.


Hate the other races of mer? I think you may be misinterpretting this passage:

The Wild Elves speak a variation of Old Cyrodilic, opting to shun Tamrielic and separating themselves from the mainstream of Tamriel even further than the least urbanized of their Elven cousins. In temperament they are dark-spirited and taciturn -- though this is from the point of view of outsiders (or "Pellani" in their tongue), and doubtless they act differently within their own tribes.

I can see how it would be pretty easy to misunderstand. What it's saying is that they've isolated themselves from the outside world even more so than the least urbanized Aldmeri cousins by practicing their own ways and speaking their own language far from the eyes of the world. No mention of a burning hatred (Or any hatred, for that matter.) of other mer.

[Marauth Alaí-Raán]

What I meant was they consider the other Meri cultures to be diluted with human values, and in their eyes that makes them the only 'true' elves.

Or course no mention of the Aldmeri Citadel the capital city was built upon -- or the crimes perpetrated there in the pervious era...

YR clearly mentions the Citadel that existed before Cyrodiil was built. They White Gold Tower they built during the middle Merethic era before the split of the different Elven races so the Citadel at Cyrodiil must have been built by the Aldmeri - not the Ayleids.

Edit: my mistake just found the bit about the massacre, suggested by Pelinal Whitestrake. However the point stands that they didn't build the city, they just occupied it once Alinor forgot about them.

[Túrelio]

The Ayleids are the later Aldmer, so if the Aldmer built it, then so did the Ayleids. I don't see alot of reason why Ayleids would have a different style at that time then from the Aldmer, as the Ayleids are Aldmer. The city would certainly have Aldmer/Ayleid builtings, built over, ruined, and still standing as well, and in use I imagine.

Also, I think that Ayleid is the name used after they went into hidding, I am not sure what they would be called before then, when they lived in the city, maybe just plain Aldmer, they probably hadn't changed much yet.

[Marauth Alaí-Raán]

They are refered to as the Ayleids from the point that they were no longer under the rule of Alinor - around about the time the Camoran Dynasty arose in Valenwood, this became a buffer state for them to ensure independence from Valenwood. They did not originally build the city, the Aldmer did, there is a difference, the Ayleids never abandoned the Ehlnofey language and magicks while they are the same race their culture and language etc. had not adapted with the Aldmer.

To give a real world example, it's like how Corsican and Sardegnan are related to Italian but are much closer to Latin than standard Italian as they were more isolated from cultural and linguistic influences that altered Italian from it's roots.

[Gleb]

They didn't have to occupy it. They had been living there since it was built, and eventually became an independant state from Alinor. They're the descendants of the Aldmer who built the city, and merely retain the traditions of the Ehlnofey. Retaining the Ehlnofey language (The Ehlnofex is the name, IIRC.) would make them... powerful, to say the least. If you've never read the end of the Judgement of Vivec threads, I suggest you do so for a glimpse of just how powerful and dangerous that language is. He managed to do.... Something along the lines of banishing from Mundus or binding her into her own Star. My point is, they speak Old Cyrodiilic, which is probably a branch-off of either the Ehlnofex or Aldmeris. If Tjurhane Fyrre lived to the average age, then that's over eight lifetimes of around +400 years for it to develop into something else on it's own.

[Marauth Alaí-Raán]

Yes I am aware of the alternate spelling Ehlnofex, I have mentioned it many times here but given that the two spellings are used interchangeably, and that the 'x' is probably silent - i.e. the pronunciation is the same, I use Ehlnofey as many people have heard of the Ehlnofey and would try and correct my spelling if I type Ehlnofex as they might not have heard that spelling. It is well known even to the humans that even modern Altmeri is a very powerful language and can be used to alter ones mental perceptions of events, it can be used to put one in 'a satisfying madness' so the languages it evolved from - Aldmeri and in turn Ehlnofe(x/y) would be very dangerous indeed. I doubt the Ayleids would brook any alteration in their language, the whole point of their culture is to preserve the old ways from before they came to Tamriel, such an evolution in their language would weaken it the same way Altmeri is no longer so powerful. IMO They would likely still all speak Ehlnofex as it was when they arrived in Cyrodiil. Also I don't know of any other source but according to the timeline on TIL the Aldmer built both the Crystal Tower and the White-Gold Tower, the Ayleids just lived around it and built up the city around it that was the basis for Cyrodiil.

[Túrelio]

Marauth Alaí-Raán, I think that the Ayleids are the Aldmer who originally settled Cyrodiil. Because at the time they would not have been known as Ayleids but as Aldmer.

[Anonymous]

Ok i think i'll change the subject, where did the Imperials originally come from? Also what made them such a powerful force? 8)

[Marauth Alaí-Raán]

Right just to finish off the last point the Aldmer who arrived originally were the Aldmer, who spoke Aldmeri, they were not the Ayleids, the Ayleids arrived at the same time but the two were two distinct groups already very separated by language and culture.

In answer to your question Saber, they're descended from the Nedic tribes who moved south from Skyrim into the heartland that is now Cyrodil, also they inhabited High Rock and Hammerfell, but those in High Rock were taken as slaves by the Altmer and they interbred producing the Bretons. Those in Hammerfell fled when the Yokudans arrived. Those in Cyrodil originally only inhabited the Colovian Estate, which is the western half of Cyrodiil, they provide most of the soldiers and also the Emperors are Colovian. After the Empress Alessia invaded Nibenay they siezed the White-Gold Tower and massacred the Ayleids, building Cyrodiil on the ruins of the Ayleid settlement. Yes that is the Alessia who was worshipped by the Alessian Order, or rather the Monkey Prophet Maruhk received visions from her ghost to wipe out the Mer.

[Fallen Murk]

For the Colovian West to produce such a successful race must mean that it is rich in many natural resources. Good farming (and fishing) for population growth. Probably good mineral resources as well. Good in-land rivers for trade and transportation. None of this is official lore, but there are certain things that are necessary for a civilization to prosper - and prosper they have. A sea to the west, desert to the north, jungle to the east and south; all of these being naturally defensive geography for general (not complete) protection from invasion.

[Marauth Alaí-Raán]

Colovia is mostly plains I believe, they must have several good ports, including at least the great city of Anvil from which Bendu Olo launched the campaign to wipe out Thras. At that time I'm not sure Hammerfell was actually a desert yet, it became barren over time. They wouldn't have been that defended by the Jungles of Nibenay or the Forests of Valenwood as these would be where the Elves would attack from, the only natural barrier is the desert to the south - Elsweyr, at the time called Anequina and Pelitine. Certainly though the Colovian Estate is the most agricultural productive are of Cyrodil, it would be overshadowed in trade terms by the Red River running right into Nibenay and around the capital Cyrodiil but still it's coastal position would be just as good for trade with High Rock, and maybe when the Mer were in a good mood trade from Sumurset.

[Fallen Murk]

...and maybe when the Mer were in a good mood trade from Sumurset.

I had almost included a similar statement.

I agree... When the Altmer need for commerce and trade out-weighed their disdain for other races, then trade-goods would flow. It always comes down to: Love is love and war is war, but business is still business.

[Marauth Alaí-Raán]

Though I imagine after the Aldmeri Porgrom of Pelinal Whitestrake all that would end, wiping out thousands of Aldmeri is a bit too much for them to forgive Even in the 3rd Era they remember - YR mentions 'the attrocities' that took place in Cyrodil. The Alessian Empire originated in Colovia BTW.

[Avarr]

Just curious...where can i find a detailed history of Tamriel and all the lore you guys are talking about? I am extremely intrigued

[Lord_Gallant]

Your one stop source for Tamrielic Lore is the Xanathar's site, Imperial Library:

http://til.gamingsource.co.uk/

Also good, for more game-related information, is the Unofficial Elderscrolls Pages, which has been around since TES's beginnings:

http://www.uesp.net/

And, for the really hardcore, up-to-date lore discussions, try the Official ES forums lore discussions subforum:

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?s=bf7382c05e3178345ae80d91e3de3edf&showforum=16

Be warned, don't go in there unless you are already well aquainted with the Imperial Library's contents. Those people talk about some pretty abstract stuff and can be serious lore junkies.

I wonder if there is already a FAQ up somewhere with these sites? If not I might make one; your question comes up often.