A poroblem or a bit of advice

Arcadea · Post by **Arcadea** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 9:58 pm

Dear Tamriel Rebuilt

I have seen many problems since I have returned many flammings and what not this should not be tollerated and not be seen on these forums. The project I belive will about to go through a hard time and So this team must stanmd together as friends and comrades we are all working for one goal remeber. Tamriel will be rebuilt and to do this the members must stand firm and work together. Please do not flame people must support eachtother and work hard. The core may not always seem to do what you belive is best but they are doing what is best fopr this project they now what they are doing and hold this [project topgether and help to guide it. Treat them with repect that they deserve it is a hard job they do remeber my woprds and warning. Good luck my friends

SDincerly,
Arcadea

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:28 pm

Thanks Arcadea, always good to here from you. I'd just like to add that the respect has to flow both ways. We who are the community are just as much a part of the project as the mods. Everyone has to respect eachother if things will continue to function. Respect people's diginity, their work, and their *informed* opinions. Too often i feel very separated from the mods who i used to regard as modding partners.

I've been here for about a year now and this is a much busier.. and to a degree.. more impersonal place.

Mr. Alligator · Post by **Mr. Alligator** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:55 am

I fear there are worse things to come. The Tamriel Rebuilt Civil War may come eventually. When one side may say, "We stick with the old TES construction set." When one side says, "We go forth, and build a new Tamriel Rebult with the new engine." Or even the new election coming up in America. That might even bring a few debates that will produce flames and ban some of our modders. Or games coming out. Halo 2, new D&D, etc. will give us lag and slow down the process of this great mod. I hope our foundation will stand through these tough times, but I fear there is always somebody with a sludge hammer willing to break it.

As I too feel that flames have gone out of control Arcadea. Hopefully somebody can fix these problems.

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:57 am

what happened to the censored word list?

Mr. Alligator · Post by **Mr. Alligator** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:17 am

Most people should find diffrent ways of saying their arguments. Instead of saying

"You dimwitted noob! Don't vote for Bush! How could you be so naive? Don't you know that people hate the guy? You crummy southerners. Here are my reasons, curse curse anger anger anger"

You should say,
"(Name) in my opinion voting for Bush isn't a wise idea. My reasons are, yadda yadda blah blah blah."

I think that too much of the top example goes on some time. If you are grumpy leave at the door, and calmly explain why you are infuriated today. If somebody says something that aggravets you entirely. Keep the cool. Don't burst anger on him/her.

I don't see any rules on behavior anyhow. We are not a dictatorship, but sometimes it seems these flames are innapropriate and are down right rude. If somebody is dilebratley insulting YOU then just ignore them.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:25 am

I agree with all. I hope people's attitudes improve. if not, this projects going to the cliff racers. I have been trying to organise th camona tong faction, but people just keep shooting me down with wat ever info they have. its very nice that they are suggesting improvements and such, because i havent studied every little piece of tamrielic lore and i do consider myself somewhat of a noob when it comes to lore, but could they not do it in a more friendly tone? besides, we need less arguments and more working.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:38 am

Trust me.. it didn't used to be like that. I think it in part has to do with the fact that more people than ever are using the boards. Oh their have always been flames here and there, as with all discussion boards, and conversations in real life... but now things feel less than comfortable.

Sniper4 · Post by **Sniper4** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:50 am

I actually haven't noticed any real change in flaming really. But then again, I'm usually lurking within the mysterious reaches of the admin forum and review board. I rarely post in the lounge or tavern anymore. I dunno. I really didn't know there was any such tension

... except for maybe the political stuff.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:05 pm

I actually haven't noticed any real change in flaming really. But then again, I'm usually lurking within the mysterious reaches of the admin forum and review board. I rarely post in the lounge or tavern anymore.

Hence,

Too often i feel very separated from the mods who i used to regard as modding partners.

Anybody konw what i mean? Anybody thats been around for a while?

Sniper4 · Post by **Sniper4** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:20 pm

Hehe. I would post more, and spend more time on the forums, but I've been so blasted busy trying to get all map 2 interiors pushed through review. I've been so busy fixing the interiors of people that have left and such, that I haven't actually built an interior in months. Just been fixing stuff. In fact, I've been fixing things so long, that I am literally finding fixing to be more fun than creating (which, let's say that it was a totally different story over the summer

).

Greybeard · Post by **Greybeard** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:27 pm

I agree, Morden. Whether it's a necessary evil, or something we can mitigate, whenever someone is promoted, a wall seems to be built. I don't know by whom, but I feel it also.

As far as excessive flaming, I haven't really seen much difference over the years. It comes and goes. I do notice, however, that I rarely visit the lounge or tavern anymore. As the idiocy there has increased, my patience has decreased.

In another area, that of real work, I think we are doing much better than we have in the past. There seem to be a lot more willing hands. So maybe what we're seeing is a split between the workers and the talkers rather than the core and the members.

Read the FAQ before posting! Make sure you have browsed the FAQ forum, too, and for the love of god, DON'T SPAM.

The above notice does point up the harsher attitude that seems to have crept in, however. It could have been phrased much more politely and without offending every Christian, and every other person who believes in a god, here.

Perhaps Arcadea is right: our manners are not what they once were.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:50 pm

I honestly don't see the increase in flaming. That could be because I am used to hostility, or maybe I'm doing the flaming. However, I think Majra summed it up best in Gooble's failed attempt at a sympathetic and tear-filled goodbye thread.
He said, through a series of posts, that we are a goal-oriented community. The job of the Core, and every other member here, is to do their part to get closer to that goal. If this means that now and then someone gets flamed for repeated forum rule offenses, then so be it.
There is not going to be a Tamriel Rebuilt civil war. Important modders will not be banned. Half our members will not leave because of Halo 2. Burning death will not rain down upon us from the heavens.
A few high-profile members here are stressed right now. It may be due to their personal life, the workload they have here, their jobs, or the fact that school is in session and homework is piling up. But I have noticed that a lot more is being accomplished now than ever before. And if that means that we get into a good yelling session now and then, I'm all for it.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:10 pm

I too dont see an increse in flaming. it comes and goes, but i dont think there was less when i joined(that may be because compared to many of you guys im still a noob)
[qoute] Too often i feel very separated from the mods who i used to regard as modding partners. [/quote]
I see the mods around the forums alot, you realy have to know when and wereto look

Majra · Post by **Majra** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:18 pm

Greybeard, again your wisdom cuts through all the cloudiness. That is precisely the true division, the admins and mods dont magically change once they are on the core, we just have a lot more work, and we are then put in charge of policing the forum, which really should not be our job, This is a mod, not a playground. Therefore the division becomes striking between those that actually help, and those that come on to fill up our boards with their boredom. The core in the past tried to cater to even the talkers, but that resulted in no work at all occuring in modding. We will no longer act as babysitters, if someone is acting up, we will tell them not to, if they continue, dont expect to see that person on this forum again.

It has nothing to do with new people or old people, I have met lots of new people who I really like and appreciate their hard work. The point is, those people arent the ones constantly discussing random things on this forum, or doing things that the core askthem not to do kindly the first time. They are the ones that mod, mesh, create solid and form fitting concepts, discuss undiscussed lore, and these people have and will continue to have the utmost respect of the core and all knowledgable members.

Icarus · Post by **Icarus** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:45 pm

I rarely visit the lounge or tavern anymore. As the idiocy there has increased, my patience has decreased.

thats true, I havent been on the boards as much as I used to, but they have grown hugely over the last 6 months,
and as we all know, as members increase, the average post's quality decreases. nowhere is this more clear than the tavern/lounge.

The core may not always seem to do what you belive is best but they are doing what is best fopr this project they now what they are doing and hold this [project topgether and help to guide it.

Being a moderator brings certain responsibilities, which means that moderators are expected to do more work than other members.
"thanks be to those" who have taken it upon themselves to do this work, especially while being questioned by other members. I think every member looks to the admins/moderators as a good example.
Though, because everyone implicitly respects the "core" members, they dont always mention or express their gratitude, even though thats how they feel (or should feel). The core does quality, hard work and all of us (more experienced members) recognise that.

I'd just like to add that the respect has to flow both ways.

... but now things feel less than comfortable.

whenever someone is promoted, a wall seems to be built. I don't know by whom, but I feel it also.

Many members do work for the project
and the members who *do* do work should -also- be given praise and encouragement, just as the core should be, although sometimes this is not given at all, as these posts by seem to say.
I know from my own experiences that work I offered received a less-than-helpful response, when I needed someone to test something, or get a constructive opinion

What I'm saying is, either all the constructive members start thanking each other, core -> member and member -> core, or we all develop a Thicker Skin.
And remember that not all those who are interested in the project have the ability to help with it. They should be allowed/encouraged to use these forums aswell, even though their opinions may be, and sometimes should be, disregarded.

Good work everybody!